2017/2016 lg oled hdr game mode - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 307 Old 11-02-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyKnight View Post
Believe me, I played with the setting for 2 hours trying to get it to look good.

Changing the dynamic contrast has a very minimal effect. It's not a solution.
Since you have a 2017, I think you should be able to use DC Low, which is LGs Active or Dynamic Tone Mapping. I know that works for the other HDR Modes. Not sure if HDR Game Mode, specifically, works differently than the others.

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post #92 of 307 Old 11-05-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyKnight View Post
Believe me, I played with the setting for 2 hours trying to get it to look good.



Changing the dynamic contrast has a very minimal effect. It's not a solution.


Have you used the in game calibration for HDR?


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post #93 of 307 Old 11-05-2017, 01:40 PM
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Seems very obvious that lg has intentionally dimmed the hdr gaming modes , not for mapping purposes, but rather to avoid a burn in nightmare on their TVs. If it was mapping, why wouldn’t it be for all hdr modes , instead of just the gaming , which has static images on the screen most of time

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post #94 of 307 Old 11-05-2017, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
Since you have a 2017, I think you should be able to use DC Low, which is LGs Active or Dynamic Tone Mapping. I know that works for the other HDR Modes. Not sure if HDR Game Mode, specifically, works differently than the others.
Vincent Teoh confirmed the Dynamic Contrast set to Low for dynamic metadata only works on the Cinema Presets and not Game Mode.

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post #95 of 307 Old 11-05-2017, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post
Seems very obvious that lg has intentionally dimmed the hdr gaming modes , not for mapping purposes, but rather to avoid a burn in nightmare on their TVs. If it was mapping, why wouldn’t it be for all hdr modes , instead of just the gaming , which has static images on the screen most of time
The claim I heard was games can be mastered to have a peak brightness of up to 10,000 nits..where as HDR movies are usually mastered to 1000 or sometimes 4000 nits. The TV knows it's peak brightness is 700 nits so it maps the peak brightness of the source to 700 and maps everything else off that so not to blow out detail in everything over 700 nits, which many sets do. If you tone map a game mode to where the TV expects the mastered peak is 10k nits but the game is only mastered to 1k, things are going to be way too dim.

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post #96 of 307 Old 11-06-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ikari Warrior View Post
The claim I heard was games can be mastered to have a peak brightness of up to 10,000 nits..where as HDR movies are usually mastered to 1000 or sometimes 4000 nits. The TV knows it's peak brightness is 700 nits so it maps the peak brightness of the source to 700 and maps everything else off that so not to blow out detail in everything over 700 nits, which many sets do. If you tone map a game mode to where the TV expects the mastered peak is 10k nits but the game is only mastered to 1k, things are going to be way too dim.
Thanks for that info, not sure it makes a lot of sense. I know of no other manufacturer's that are remapping their hdr game modes, and making the mode much dimmer than the regular hdr modes . I get that oled isn't near as bright as some of the led tvs, but this seems like it would be a problem for all manufacturer's.

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post #97 of 307 Old 11-06-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post
Thanks for that info, not sure it makes a lot of sense. I know of no other manufacturer's that are remapping their hdr game modes, and making the mode much dimmer than the regular hdr modes . I get that oled isn't near as bright as some of the led tvs, but this seems like it would be a problem for all manufacturer's.
The solution is in how each manufacturer chooses to handle the "my product can't reach 1000-4000 nits peak" dilemma. They can opt to preserve overall brightness and blow out highlights, or they can opt to preserve detail, and lower overall brightness. LG has chosen the latter, whereas Sony, for example, has chosen the former.

LG's stance is "technically" right, though it may not look as appealing as doing it how another manufacturer would.
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post #98 of 307 Old 11-06-2017, 04:02 PM
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HI,

I'm about to take the plunge and get the Lg B7. My concern is the dim Hdr game mode that resulted from some update. Found this on another website, could any of you please confirm that it still works:

"To brighten up the picture with HDR game mode. other way is to switch to the HDR standard picture mode, but to change the icon of the input to the "PC" icon which also enables a low input lag mode."
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post #99 of 307 Old 11-06-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Nestor View Post
HI,

I'm about to take the plunge and get the Lg B7. My concern is the dim Hdr game mode that resulted from some update. Found this on another website, could any of you please confirm that it still works:

"To brighten up the picture with HDR game mode. other way is to switch to the HDR standard picture mode, but to change the icon of the input to the "PC" icon which also enables a low input lag mode."
At this moment changing the input icon to PC skews the color grading scale for HDR10... It's fine for Dolby Vision and SDR. Changing it to PC also disables a number of options such as Gamma and black level controls. Dynamic contrast on High isn't a great solution either...Medium is a little more palatable but hopefully LG institutessome option to chose that splits the difference between the dim HDR Game Mode and the laggier but brighter HDR Standard Mode.

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post #100 of 307 Old 11-06-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikari Warrior View Post
At this moment changing the input icon to PC skews the color grading scale for HDR10... It's fine for Dolby Vision and SDR. Changing it to PC also disables a number of options such as Gamma and black level controls. Dynamic contrast on High isn't a great solution either...Medium is a little more palatable but hopefully LG institutessome option to chose that splits the difference between the dim HDR Game Mode and the laggier but brighter HDR Standard Mode.
Just an freindly fyi there is no gamma in HDR10 or DV, pc icon or not. I actually prefer this implementation of HDR game mode and dont want to lose it but I do agree that there should be a choice for people that hate it. Not everyone agrees on what looks good. There is a whole generation that only know LCD tvs and that is their benchmark for what looks normal and they may never see the benefits that I see. It only makes sense to offer two game modes or a toggle to preserve brightness or content.

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post #101 of 307 Old 11-07-2017, 02:23 PM
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Still no news on the update? I’m losing my mind on everyday calibration
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post #102 of 307 Old 11-09-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
The solution is in how each manufacturer chooses to handle the "my product can't reach 1000-4000 nits peak" dilemma. They can opt to preserve overall brightness and blow out highlights, or they can opt to preserve detail, and lower overall brightness. LG has chosen the latter, whereas Sony, for example, has chosen the former.



LG's stance is "technically" right, though it may not look as appealing as doing it how another manufacturer would.


I️ believe this means that the end user has to use the in game calibration tools to optimize the picture to their TV on a game by game basis. This is done me with either the overall brightness controls, or the HDR nots specific brightness controls.


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post #103 of 307 Old 11-09-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jkuch88 View Post
I️ believe this means that the end user has to use the in game calibration tools to optimize the picture to their TV on a game by game basis. This is done me with either the overall brightness controls, or the HDR nots specific brightness controls.


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Unfortunately, a lot of games don't have them. Even if they do, there's no guarantee that you won't be raising black floor while you're getting rid of the dimness either. Essentially just trading one issue for another.

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post #104 of 307 Old 11-12-2017, 08:58 AM
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I've been tempted to update my E6 to the current firmware, mainly because I'm tired of seeing the update notification screen every time I turn my TV on.

Some opinions say the HDR Game mode is fine as long as you enable dynamic contrast, but what's the overall consensus? Is there no benefit at all to updating?
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post #105 of 307 Old 11-12-2017, 10:43 PM
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It's not just the Game mode. I didn't even bother measuring the Game mode but it's easy to see the problem form Cinema mode results: even the SDR range (0-120 nit) is heavily dimmed on my 55C7 (EU v04.70.10) if the metadata indicates 10000 nit peak white for the source.



The only HDR capable game I own right now is ME:Andromeda. This definitely uses 10k metadata (one can validate that by fiddling around with the developer console and the built-in "display calibration" GUI: the game displays a peak white and an adjustable gray box in the settings menu, where the adjustable box can be set in plain number to a desired brightness in raw [nit] from the developer console).

So... yeah, LG is trying to be "way too smart" and they seem to think their customers are even more stupid. They seem to think it's more important to preserve the geometry details in blindingly vibrant portions of images rather than providing standard brightness in the usual low-light portions. They are sacrificing the "correctness" on 99% of the content to make 1% "somewhat better". And then they say customers should just turn on Dynamic contrast which might look better at first but it isn't really just what you might think it is.
Even the Low setting (dyn.cont.) throws color accuracy out on the window (and higher settings make a mess out of overall color acc.) and you would actually need High to compensate for the heavy dimming. Hell, even High isn't enough to bring 10000nit input back to correct SDR brightness in the SDR rage (don't let yourself to be fooled, just because it might look "good enough" at first, it doesn't mean it's all great). Dynamic contrast adjusts the brightness of different colors (grays or saturated primaries for example) differently, so the resulting color space is very non-standard.

It's bothering enough for movies mastered at 4000nit. Genuinely dark scenes are notably darken than they should be (even if it's far from being as bad as it is with 10000nit metadata with games, it's noticeable with 4000nit movies too!) The small difference with 1000nit movies is pretty much impossible to tell by the naked eye (may be if you have a reference screen side-by-side, or not even then).

I's easy to see the error created by Dynamic Contrast by the naked eye: pause a 4000nit masteres movie at a dark scene which contains some saturated colors and white. I used a scene form Fantastic Beasts where I could see a flag (red, white and some other color bars I can't recall) in a dimly lit room at night. If you start cranking up Dyn.C from Off to High, you will notice that the white bar in the flag rises in brightness a lot faster than the saturated color bars. In other words, the white bar in the flag started to look like a dim neon light was installed behind it (while the colored bars looked pretty much the same, even if a little brighter).

Well, games can look better or worse subjectively depending on the actual game and specific scene.
MEA was a true "laser show". It almost hurt my eyes when I tried to aim at the bright red lights in the almost pitch-back underground facilities in HDR mode. (But that's by design, it was the game's "fault" and I could always just lower the peak brightness either from the game settings or using the OLED Light and/or Contrast settings of the TV, or both of these, I could make it as dark as I could possibly want...) So, yeah, it's almost better at first when it's dimmed (like now). Although, if I go outside (I mean still inside the game's world...), I find the sunny desert disappointing. It should be stunning (almost blindingly bright as you would expect from a desert) but looking at the sand on the ground gives me the feeling of a cloudy day (just with the actual clouds missing from the sky, like it's a graphic glitch in the game).


In my opinion the SDR range should never be compressed (no matter what) and even the 120-650 range (rough peak on these displays) should offer a choice for plain "hard clip" rather than "roll off" via a user switch (but I wouldn't really miss that if the 0-120 wasn't messed with).


I could try compensating for this with a 3DLUT but it's complicated if the ABL is involved (and it easily will be in HDR).
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post #106 of 307 Old 11-14-2017, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
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PS4 patch for AC:Origins with HDR support is released, but somehow HDR looks very washed out. Got black level set to "low", and the PS4 to "automatic" (but "limited" makes no difference). Anyone else noticed this?
Indeed, I have it for the Xbox one X, it looks very washed out imo on my C6, did you fix this at all? I have tried multiple settings, in game and on TV for about 2 hours... I just can't get it to look how I want, blacks look grey and you can see this just by opening the menu, however look at a video of the game in HDR and you'll see what looks grey on our set, looks nice with deep blacks. I wish LG would fix the HDR Game mode. Unbelievable!
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post #107 of 307 Old 11-18-2017, 04:04 PM
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I am in the UK and have just purchased the 55 inch B7V, currently on firmware version 03. something. I've seen on the LG website that there is a version 04.70.10. Does this version include the dimmer HDR Game Mode? I am very nervous about updating in case it does.
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post #108 of 307 Old 11-19-2017, 04:59 PM
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I am in the UK and have just purchased the 55 inch B7V, currently on firmware version 03. something. I've seen on the LG website that there is a version 04.70.10. Does this version include the dimmer HDR Game Mode? I am very nervous about updating in case it does.
Update from my last message above. I'm currently using the out the box firmware version which is 03.60.09, which, as far as I know, is before LG changed the HDR game mode. According to their website over here in the UK, the most up to date version is 04.70.10 but I am reluctant to update yet until I can find out whether this includes the dimmer HDR game mode. I just haven't found any concrete proof that LG has pulled that particular update off of the European/UK TV sets so until I do know for certain, I won't be updating.
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post #109 of 307 Old 11-20-2017, 06:29 AM
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Hi everybody,

I think I need help here because I completely lost track of what is what, so if somebody could help me real quick that would be awesome:

I bought my LG OLED back in fall 2015 when they were brand new so do I have what is referred to as a 2016 model? Because I also experience this dim HDR picture but if I'm being totally honest certainly in Game Mode but kinda also when I'm watching HDR content through the LG Netflix app. So I'm not sure this is related to a firmware update I did since 2015 or is everybody absolutely sure it is connected with that update?

I like how the picture looks more punchy with dynamic contrast but I hate the fact that you lose sooooo many nuanced details when it is enabled. And HDR is all about those details, so why bother with turning on DC on? I rather live with the dim picture then.

But what kind of solution is there for my 2015 bought OLED? The same as 2016 models? I also have no clue about B6, B7, etc., mine was called LG 55EF950V when I bought it.

Thanks for your help everyone!
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post #110 of 307 Old 11-20-2017, 10:43 AM
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And as I'm moving to Sweden this January I'm probably just gonna sell my LG OLED from 2015 and buy a new one. Which version of the newest LG OLEDs don't have this dim HDR game mode?
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post #111 of 307 Old 11-20-2017, 07:39 PM
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Any fix for the awful dim hdr game mode on the c6? I reverted back to 4.30.95 firmware but keep getting the annoying pop ups to update.
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post #112 of 307 Old 11-20-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by spiro77 View Post
Any fix for the awful dim hdr game mode on the c6? I reverted back to 4.30.95 firmware but keep getting the annoying pop ups to update.
Why to 4.30 not to 4.31 ?

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post #113 of 307 Old 11-20-2017, 08:19 PM
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Why to 4.30 not to 4.31 ?

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Sorry I am on 4.31. The last firmware before the disgusting dim hdr game mode firmware. $3000 tv and still having to deal with this crap. Very annoying.
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post #114 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 05:09 AM
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I just got the 55B7A and I after a few hours tweaking the PS4 Pro and Plex (Raspberry Pi image) settings I'm happy with the results, thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread. Some key settings:

Game Mode for both SDR and HDR
High black level for SDR - Pro defaults to Full RGB
Low black level for HDR - 422 and 420 are both compressed
Dynamic contrast off - tone mapping is disabled in Game mode
Contrast 100 - tweak luminescence with OLED setting, I use 100 during the day and reduce it at night without crushing blacks
Brightness 51-52
Sharpening 0
Color temp W20
Disable all other processing
Deep color ON in HDMI settings on TV
60-70% brightness in game options (tested on Horizon Zero Dawn and TLOU Remastered) to make up for the LG dimming

Don't use PC mode, terrible banding no matter what settings you try, looks like it's remapping HDR10 422 and 420 in a weird way like another poster said.

H:ZD looks incredible now, I honestly can't complain for $1000 TV. I'll connect the PC next week and report back, hopefully RGB 444 will work with my GTX 1080.

Plex Raspberry Pi image settings:

edit ELEC config file to output Limited RGB
enable Display Mode Switching - enables 23.976 output

TV settings for SDR movies:

Expert picture mode
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Low black level
Gamma 2.2 - the others crush blacks too much I find and I suspect 2.2 is closer to 2.4
Brightness 51-52
Warm 2
Contrast 90-100
OLED 90-100 for Bright room mode, 20-50 for Dark room mode
Sharpening O
All other processing OFF
TrueMotion OFF
RealCinema ON - Looks like 23.976 hz is working well, no judder in panning scenes. This would have been a deal breaker coming from a Kuro!

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post #115 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by shiznit93 View Post
I just got the 55B7A and I after a few hours tweaking the PS4 Pro and Plex (Raspberry Pi image) settings I'm happy with the results, thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread. Some key settings:

Game Mode for both SDR and HDR
High black level for SDR - Pro defaults to Full RGB
Low black level for HDR - 422 and 420 are both compressed
Dynamic contrast off - tone mapping is disabled in Game mode
Contrast 100 - tweak luminescence with OLED setting, I use 100 during the day and reduce it at night without crushing blacks
Brightness 51-52
Sharpening 0
Color temp W20
Disable all other processing
Deep color ON in HDMI settings on TV
60-70% brightness in game options (tested on Horizon Zero Dawn and TLOU Remastered) to make up for the LG dimming

Don't use PC mode, terrible banding no matter what settings you try, looks like it's remapping HDR10 422 and 420 in a weird way like another poster said.

H:ZD looks incredible now, I honestly can't complain for $1000 TV. I'll connect the PC next week and report back, hopefully RGB 444 will work with my GTX 1080.

Plex Raspberry Pi image settings:

edit ELEC config file to output Limited RGB
enable Display Mode Switching - enables 23.976 output

TV settings for SDR movies:

Expert picture mode
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Low black level
Gamma 2.2 - the others crush blacks too much I find and I suspect 2.2 is closer to 2.4
Brightness 51-52
Warm 2
Contrast 90-100
OLED 90-100 for Bright room mode, 20-50 for Dark room mode
Sharpening O
All other processing OFF
TrueMotion OFF
RealCinema ON - Looks like 23.976 hz is working well, no judder in panning scenes. This would have been a deal breaker coming from a Kuro!
I just got my 65B7A yesterday and I'm super confused on what settings to use. I'm primarily using this as a gaming pc tv and this is where I'm at...

Use game mode with HDR enabled...not PC mode?

HDMI 2.0b does not support 60Hz at 4:4:4 10 bit....so do I use 4.2.2 10 bit or 4.4.4 8 bit?

Seems like this tv has lots of issues if you are gamer? Should I just wait for HDMI 2.1?
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post #116 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 02:02 PM
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I'm coming into this late but have read back and I still have some confusion.

My uses in order of importance and hours: 1. gaming in PVP on Xbox; 2. watching Netflix through Xbox; 3. watching Plex on Xbox; 4. watching movies through Asus media player

Coming off a Panasonic Plasma 60" ST30. It is starting to buzz and squeezing the frame does not quiet it enough. I actually did cause burn in on my Pany for my HUD in the first year of playing my one game. Fortunately I rarely notice it watching anything else. Since I just got an Xbox One X figured time to upgrade.

I looked up my Pany and its response time/input lag from a few sites guesstimates 32ms.

I was hoping to get faster input lag and after reading many sites I settled on going for the 65 LG B or C7.

But in that reading I came across this issue you folks have been talking about with the Game Mode on the LGs being messed up.

So in light of this Game Mode issue and OLED burn-in issues I am now thinking the Sony 65 X900E. I just really was hoping to get the 21ms response time vs the 34ms of the Sony. I do PVP enough that it is a big feature for me.

Anyone have any opinions on what they would recommend or have experienced with either of these TVs under similar circumstances?

Thanks!
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post #117 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 02:36 PM
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The only issue with Game Mode that I can see is a slightly dim image. Some have recommended using Dynamic Contrast but I find it distracting the tone mapping is disabled in Game Mode (presumably to help with input lag). With Energy Saver OFF and Contrast at 100 if you increase the game's brightness setting to around 60-70% it looks really really good IMO. Input lag is supposedly also really good at 21ms, maybe it feels a hair slower than my Kuro using a wireless controller but the IQ is so much better. This could be my perception due to persistence.

Speaking of persistence, you may notice slight blurring in motion due to sample-and-hold. Not nearly as bad as an LCD but noticeable over Plasma/CRT. When moving the in-game map around you can see the text and icons very slightly blurring. On a 1-10 scale (10 being plasma and 1 LCD at 60hz) I would say 7-8.
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Last edited by shiznit93; 11-21-2017 at 02:43 PM.
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post #118 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by shiznit93 View Post
Speaking of persistence, you may notice slight blurring in motion due to sample-and-hold. Not nearly as bad as an LCD but noticeable over Plasma/CRT. When moving the in-game map around you can see the text and icons very slightly blurring. On a 1-10 scale (10 being plasma and 1 LCD at 60hz) I would say 7-8.
Thank you for your thoughts and especially this. I had not realized in my research that there would be a subtle difference with persistence. Seems the LG is still in the front then.
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post #119 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 06:09 PM
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I have a b7 and i cant get hdr with the ps4 pro to work at all. It is connected directly to hdmi 3 using a highspeed with eth hdmi cable. With hdr on auto on the ps4, the tv will say to optimize content it will turn on hdr and then poof i have a screen saver up. How are you guys getting it to work properly?
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post #120 of 307 Old 11-21-2017, 10:06 PM
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Have you enabled deep colour for hdmi3? Look for it in the settings on your tv.
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