HDTVtest TV Shootout Results: OLED Sweeps All Categories - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
But garbage? I strongly disagree with that…
Well it looks like I will be buying the drinks at CEDIA as way of an apology with respect to the fact that I must respectfully completely disagree with you about this… If you had attended the UK shootout Mark I have absolutely no doubt that you would not be defending the Samsung Q9 in this manner. As compared directly with the other TVs, with the only exception being the unrivalled performance of its anti-glare coating with respect to bright room reflections, its performance was and is bloody awful

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As for what a flagship TV should or should not do, the reality is if you want an 88" screen that looks fantastic on Sundays when the big game is on, that's the kind of flagship TV Samsung built. Do I wish there was an 88" flat 1024-zone FALD QLED that cost under $10,000? You bet. Of course I also wish there was an 88" OLED that cost under $10,000. Neither exists
You can buy a 75" Sony ZD9/Z9D for $9,000 as compared with the 88" Samsung Q9 at $20,000... Where the Sony ZD9/Z9D nails the Samsung Q9 to the wall in pretty much every aspect... plus it has circa 820 zones... Enough said.

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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
So no compulsion to respond to ARROW-AV when he referred to the q9 as overpriced garbage?
Yes maybe 90% of the time folks will have their lights on but it's more likely a lamp or two so the others in this group will still outperform the q9. Also, a flagship TV at this price should perform well in the dark, not just a bright room.
The Samsung Q9 has the best anti-glare coating of all the TVs tested, which is the only reason it 'won' the 'Bright Room' category, where the reflectivity of the panel was a primary determining factor. Without this factoring into the equation there's no chance in hell that the Q9 would have won that category. Given it’s a flagship product with a high price tag not only is its performance embarrassing, it’s insulting. So, yes, the Samsung Q9 most certainly IS overpriced garbage

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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
I prefer a Sony 930/40E or Z9D over any of the Q series. The Q series is disrespectful to Samsung heritage… LCD panel type nor backlights design has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'll be clear and straight to the point.....The 2017 Samsung Q series is a cluster f**k. No matter how you attempt to polish it, the series is s**t. I have direct access to their largest client, BB, sales figures and the Q series, especially the Q9, isn't doing great. To say the Q series is nothing but a step backwards for Samsung is an understatement.
Precisely

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Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post
The reason we don't have full scoring from the shootout is how poorly the Samsung performed and it's not in the organisers best interest to alienate a vendor at that level. At least on my scoring sheet, lots of 1's and 2's were handed out to the q9. After the event, socialising with others, I wasn't alone in that.... Samsung even sent 2 reps to the shootout which just made things even more awkward… Anyone picking a q9 over a z9d at similar sizes is either clueless, a Samsung shill and getting a major employee discount…In the UK, the 65 q9 is 1,500GBP more than the C7. Let that sink in....
Could not agree more

Aside from the Samsung Q9’s unrivalled anti-glare coating, the other TVs beat it in pretty much every single respect.

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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
Hardly! LCD/LED TVs are not going anywhere - especially given all the new technological advancements, such as an "emissive" Quantum Dot displays, that are coming down the pipe in the next few years...[/URL]]
So NO, LCD TVs are NOT "on their way out" as you put it. Richard
AND MicroLED technology, such as used by Sony's CLEDIS
.
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post #452 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
Hardly!

Don't let "high-end TV shootouts" like this one deceive you. LCD/LED TVs still outsell OLED TVs by a very wide margin (can't remember the exact numbers). OLED TVs are still primarily aimed at videophiles/enthusiasts, like you and I, who very much make up only a small minority of viewers.
Sorry, I thought the subtext of my comment was understood. Let's try this again- LCDs are on their way out for the high-end videophile market. Absolutely LCD still sells a ton on the mainstream/low-end. It's great there, cheap and good enough for the masses. But for 2016/2017, for the high-end, LCDs have offered very little competition to OLED.

Samsung in particular is in a lot of trouble.
If their future is to offer edge-lit LCDs at higher-than-OLED prices, then they aren't going to be competitive in the high-end market.

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LCD/LED TVs are not going anywhere - especially given all the new technological advancements, such as an "emissive" Quantum Dot displays, that are coming down the pipe in the next few years. [As an example, you can check out THIS ARTICLE]

So NO, LCD TVs are NOT "on their way out" as you put it.


Richard
Yeah? When are these emissive LCDs entering the consumer market? They are still a pipe dream at this point.
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post #453 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
I don't care if other sets are better than my 65" A1E in some ways. Always something better out there.
Wow, no more plasma? When did you get the A1E?

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
And if that reads like an ad, well so be it.
These are your words. I'll quote them just to add my agreement

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post #454 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 09:57 AM
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Now I think that is probably a software bug,It shouldn't turn all the zones on for any subject in the middle of the screen.

If you look on this youtube TV review channel {digitalfernsehende} ,tittle : Samsung QLED 65 Q9 im Test, Bildvergleich mit KS9590. Time stamp 14:46 , You will see the same strange backlight behavior. Just a little square in the middle triggered all the zones,is easy to tell because the whole screen is illuminated and that never happened with their previous edge lits. I had a JS8500 so I have an idea. Is probably a bug that could be fixed via firmware.

https://youtu.be/voGmbaHfvZU?embed=no&t=882

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post #455 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 10:53 AM
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All fun flicks, but none are available in Dolby Vision on disc.
Yeah and that's unfortunate...most of of the movies that I own on vudu that are DV look much better to me than their 4k counterparts.
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post #456 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 11:02 AM
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Worth noting that this was a clean sweep not just for OLED, but for LG WOLED based TVs specifically.

I wonder if this is just an experiment, or a sign of things to come?

It's noteworthy too that LG doesn't seem to be pulling a Samsung and reserving their best tech for their own products; otoh, they don't seem to be selling to anyone who's applying any price pressure on them.

Great to have choices.
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post #457 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Samsung in particular is in a lot of trouble. If their future is to offer edge-lit LCDs at higher-than-OLED prices, then they aren't going to be competitive in the high-end market.
SAMSUNG's way forward and solution to the existing trouble with its TVs is in fact exceedingly simple; namely that they simply need to make all of their TVs CURVED... Because that massively improves the video performance don't ya know
.
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post #458 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Samsung in particular is in a lot of trouble. If their future is to offer edge-lit LCDs at higher-than-OLED prices, then they aren't going to be competitive in the high-end market.
Since this is not their future, they are not in trouble. They simply screwed themselves this year with the Q series lineup.
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post #459 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
LCD/LED TVs are not going anywhere - especially given all the new technological advancements, such as an "emissive" Quantum Dot displays, that are coming down the pipe in the next few years. [As an example, you can check out THIS ARTICLE]

So NO, LCD TVs are NOT "on their way out" as you put it.


Richard
After what DNice has been saying, this article will be complete fiction by years end. Also, I think the lcd/led term ceases to exist when a television becomes emmissive. Totally different tech at that point. Im guessing most people wont turn in their "SUHD" for a "QLED", after all the hype they gave out to that series of televisions. Especially with there being no FALD "QLEDs". And after Apple starts hitting the market with their OLED phones(tablets will be next) its going to be an even more fictitious article. And if Apple does present an OLED television for consumers, its sayanara Samsung if Sammy cant come up with an emmissive tech by then. Just my opinion

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post #460 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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You folks forget that OLED is under presure here not LCd. They must produce/sell panels lots more year upon year. Also there has been no below 55 inch activity yet. Long way to go for OLED.....lots can happen. Having said that expectation is that OLED will take over the market. Folks at Samsung still choosing LCd shows that they are out of touch with what is going on right now. They are the Egde Lit LCd captain and it looks like they will go down with the ship at this point..The emissive QLED thing is way to vague at this point with only a few prototypes(5'' (320x240) 14'' (960x540)) which is considered to be by the developer a early prototype which take years to commercialize. That might be interesting...after 2020...
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post #461 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Wow, no more plasma? When did you get the A1E?



These are your words. I'll quote them just to add my agreement
I still have the 60VT60 and two other plasma's. Got a great deal on a never out of the box 65" A1E for about half price. Could not pass it up or i would have waited a while longer. So far so good. Just talked to DNice on the phone and he gave me some break in settings until he gets to me to do a calibration.

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post #462 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post
After what DNice has been saying, this article will be complete fiction by years end.

My "for example" comment in regards to that article was exactly that, AN EXAMPLE of a recent article on the subject, nothing more.

I only briefly looked at it and never intended to start a whole discussion about.

I'll try to choose my examples more carefully in the future.



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post #463 of 472 Old 08-21-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
snip... As for Samsung heritage, I thought VA LCD and side-edgelit with Cinema Black was the foundation upon which Samsung built its industry-leading position? I know that's a bit "LCD apologist" but hey, isn't it true? ...snip
I would also add using LED for the blacklight and getting everyone to call them LED televisions. And allright, I take the "apologist" comment back.

I'm in a better disposition for experiencing the total solar eclipse!

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post #464 of 472 Old 08-22-2017, 05:16 AM
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I'm glad I watched the eclipse on my 65C6,black was black. On this talk of QLED, Micro led and OLED, first I remember Sony's SED TV with the prototype coming out. SED TV died and the same thing might happen to QLED or MICRO LED. OLED is one step away from ink printing which will lower the cost too LCD pricing, so which one do you think the consumer will choose when priced almost the same? I know which one I choose when the price was the same. My choice was the Vizio 65P or 65C6 at the same price! The 65C6 is in my house.
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post #465 of 472 Old 08-22-2017, 06:25 AM
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Flatpanels Best of HDR listing.

Note the top models are all at 81%:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...tvoversigt_jpg


So, this leaves a 19% room for improvement!

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post #466 of 472 Old 08-24-2017, 01:50 PM
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Red face

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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Given all of these TVs have flaws as well as both advantages and disadvantages as compared with eachother, probably forever! Or at least until next years' shootout threads are posted!

... or if they favour BOTH LG AND SONY they are considered to be posting like Al as well!

That said, such that we don't get falsely accused again of ridiculing Al,as far as Al is concerned, we've said it before and we'll say it again, whilst we don't necessary agree with all of Al's posts, as far as his own particular personal preferences are concerned the Sony A1E OLED is clearly the 'right' choice of TV for him. Not to say that's the 'right' choice of TV for everyone, but for some folks it is / will be, including Al

Wouldn't it be great if everyone could quite simply view these TVs impartially and simply discuss and observe all their various comparative strengths and weaknesses? As long as you are making factually accurate observations there is no overall 'right' or 'wrong' choice of TV at the present time... Which TV is 'right' or 'wrong' will depend upon the viewer's particular personal preferences, typical viewing content, and their environment.

For us and our clients, HDR performance is all-important and aggressive OLED ABL is a deal-breaker. There are other important criteria as well. Consequently, as far as 2017 model TVs are concerned our TVs of choice are the LG OLEDs and the SONY ZD9/Z9D; where these cover all aspects of personal preferences, viewing content, and environments.

If the PANASONIC OLED had less aggressive ABL and HDR performance at least on par with the LG OLEDs then we'd probably favour that over the LGs.

Irrespectively, all of the PANASONIC, SONY, and LG OLEDs, as well as the SONY ZD9/Z9D, are all superb TVs.

We are very much looking forward to seeing what 2018 brings with respect to improvements

.


Which is better at handling noisy compressed content that is found on streaming services such as Netflix, between SONY ZD9 or LG OLED?

There are allot of consumers, including myself that only watch Streaming content services, which is why I ask your personal opinion.

Thank you kind.
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post #467 of 472 Old 08-25-2017, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
Which is better at handling noisy compressed content that is found on streaming services such as Netflix, between SONY ZD9 or LG OLED? There are allot of consumers, including myself that only watch Streaming content services...
Whilst the 2016 LG OLEDs have the potential to exacerbate pre-existing posterization and macroblocking (where it exacerabates it, not creates it) and where the extent to which this happens will vary from panel to panel, the situation is significantly improved with respect to the 2017 model LG OLEDs to the extent it has for most people become a nonissue.

However, if the settings are adjusted too much whilst calibrating a 2017 model LG OLED TV then this will in fact create undesirable artefacts, including this problem. And this is the reason why you can't perfectly calibrate the colour with the LG OLED to the same perfection as you can with the PANASONIC OLED which is why with respect to colour accuracy the 2017 PANASONIC OLEDs slightly outperform the 2017 LG OLEDs regarding colour accuracy, as shown in these shootouts.

That said, if the 2017 LG OLEDs are calibrated properly (as opposed to improperly) then, unlike with the 2016 model LG OLEDs, this is a nonissue. Furthermore, there's a good chance that with the out-of-the-box settings this will not be an issue either, but if it is, then by having it professionally calibrated by a skilled calibrator this can and will be eliminated. So if or when you see anyone complaining of this problem whilst referring to a 2017 model LG OLED TV then this means that the TV has not been calibrated properly.

Even so, the motion handling and noise reduction is superior with respect to the Sony ZD9 (and Sony A1E OLED) as compared with the 2017 LG OLEDs. And the Sony ZD9 (and Sony A1E OLED) is more 'forgiving' and less fussy with respect to needing to be calibrated properly in this regard too.

The 2017 LG OLEDs are game-changing for us because of the peak panel luminance increase and significantly less aggressive ABL, however it's not perfect, and neither is the ZD9. It's important that you note and understand the various respective flaws regarding both the ZD9 and LG OLEDs such that you can make an informed decision with respect to which is the 'right' choice of TV for you. And if possible, personally view both TVs before buying, but I do realize that this sometimes isn't practical. Also, if you are going to be viewing a lot of noisy compressed content and are sensitive to and/or concerned about above black video performance, and depending upon what is your environment and other viewing preferences / criteria, then you might like to consider the SONY A1E OLED, given this has superior motion handling and noise reduction as compared with the LG OLEDs

Where I should say in closing that whilst all of LG OLED, SONY A1E OLED, and SONY ZD9 have their imperfections and flaws, they are all excellent TVs and all of which have the potential to deliver overall superb video performance
.

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post #468 of 472 Old 08-25-2017, 07:15 AM
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Question

Do you think we might see a TV this year or 2018 that has any on these 4 features below?

1. Automatic Motion setting based on content source.
2. Automatic brightness sensors that auto changes picture mode to the set daytime picture, evening picture, night picture.
3. Built in bias lighting in the rear [like Philips had] and that turns on in night picture mode.
4. Upgradeable RAM, CPU.
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post #469 of 472 Old 08-31-2017, 06:43 PM
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I pushed the button on a 65" Panasonic OLED yesterday with a retail contact of mine who was able to get one for me within $A300 of my commercial pricing from Sony direct for an A1. I'm hoping from what someone suggested here Panasonic end up announcing DV support as I was a bit annoyed when I realised its missing on the Panasonic. I'm due have the Panasonic delivered tomorrow to swap out my X850A 55" that looks like behemoth on the wall comparatively. Guess with the lack of US availability of the Panasonic, I'll be headed to an owners thread on AVForum UK instead of here.
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post #470 of 472 Old 09-01-2017, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

Where I should say in closing that whilst all of LG OLED, SONY A1E OLED, and SONY ZD9 have their imperfections and flaws, they are all excellent TVs and all of which have the potential to deliver overall superb video performance
.
Great post - but I had to clip this part because it really sums it up. Face it, we are spoiled right now. Even my "outdated" 2016 65" E6 is amazing and gets it mostly "right". Any of the modesl mentioned there will make you a happy dude

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post #471 of 472 Old 09-05-2017, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Even so, the motion handling and noise reduction is superior with respect to the Sony ZD9 (and Sony A1E OLED) as compared with the 2017 LG OLEDs. And the Sony ZD9 (and Sony A1E OLED) is more 'forgiving' and less fussy with respect to needing to be calibrated properly in this regard too.
Absolutely agree that A1E handles motion, noise reduction (cleaner up-scaling to 4K UHD scale -- this will also depend on viewing distance) and (I will add) gradients better than LG 2017 OLEDs. No wonder it won both motion and video processing categories in the HDTV shootout test. Vincent acknowledged the capability of X1 Extreme processor chip set.

Quote:
The 2017 LG OLEDs are game-changing for us because of the peak panel luminance increase and significantly less aggressive ABL, however it's not perfect, and neither is the ZD9.
This as per my knowledge only holds true if you are playing disc based 4K HDR content via a UHD Blu Ray player. When streaming is taken into account Sony A1E is 10% brighter. This was mentioned in an article on AVS forum July 2017 test shootout results. So if greater brightness matters to you for impactful HDR then you may want to mention that LG betters Sony while playing disc based 4K HDR content while Sony betters LG while one is streaming 4K HDR content.

@Ken Ross I would like to hear your input on this point since you went with G7.

Reference: https://www.hometheaterforum.com/2017-ce-week-tv-shoot/ -- By Kevin Collins
Quote:
While the meter shows the LG and the Sony are different, unless you have the reference monitor next to it, you will be hard pressed to notice the difference. The Sony OLED was a little dimmer than the LG for disc based content about 100 Nit’s less than the LG, but was brighter on streaming content. The LG and the Sony were brighter than the reference 100 Nit’s for streaming content and the Sony was 10% brighter than the LG.
Quote:
Where I should say in closing that whilst all of LG OLED, SONY A1E OLED, and SONY ZD9 have their imperfections and flaws, they are all excellent TVs and all of which have the potential to deliver overall superb video performance
Most definitely agree with this comment.

Also, one more thing to add about LG winning HDR category, in the comments section of this video below someone asked Vincent:


Quote:
Rick Lewis
2 weeks ago
What are your thoughts on the B7 winning the HDR category after stating in your review that it doesn't get bright enough for impactful HDR?

HDTVTest
2 weeks ago
The B7 won the attendees' votes for HDR thanks to its dark scene rendition and specular highlight detail retention in 4000-nit scenes.
D-Nice mentioned (in another thread) Sony A1E can do the same in Cinema Home mode (D-Nice please correct me if I am quoting you wrongly). So had that been known to Vincent perhaps the HDR category result could be different.

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post #472 of 472 Old 09-23-2017, 08:32 AM
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Thumbs up Digital Trends Reviews the LG C7

Unfortunately the Amazon sale price posted is no longer available, but I can only imagine what it will be this holiday season.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-rev...d55c7p-review/

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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