2017 LG OLED Master Information Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 141Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 60
2017 LG OLED Master Information Thread

Hi everyone, I'm starting this thread because it's way too hard for new owners to catch up on what's going on. I'm just collection general useful information.

If you'd like to see something added to this thread, just reply or PM me. I'll try to keep this OP at least somewhat up to date.

Frequently Asked Questions

What kind of audio encodings can I get over Optical? What about ARC?
Optical will support AC-3 (Dolby Digital 5.1), PCM 2.0, or DTS.
ARC adds support for Dolby Digital+ (up to 7.1) with Atmos metadata.
It is currently NOT POSSIBLE to get Dolby TrueHD or DTS MasterAudio (DTS-MA) from the TV to your receiver in ANY WAY SHAPE, OR FORM.


How do I figure out what the resolution of the input signal?
Move the magic remote pointer to the upper-left corner of the screen and press the OK button. This will bring up information on the current input signal. The TV will always upscale any lower resolution to 2160p.

What are the differences between all the different models?
All 2017 LG OLED models (as well as the Sony A1E) use the same 4k OLED panel from LG. The differences are in the design and audio decoding. Another difference is that only the top two models (G7 and W7) are available in 77 inches. The others are available in 55 and 65 inches. From cheapest to most expensive (not sure if these differences are 100% accurate):
  • B7A - Most basic model with a wedge stand and silver bezel. Even though the B7A does not support native Atmos decoding, it can still pass lossy (DD+) Atmos over ARC
  • B7/B7P/B7V - Same as the B7A but adds native Atmos decoding for the built-in speakers
  • C7 - Adds a "premium aluminum stand" and black bezels
  • E7 - Picture-on-glass design with integrated sound bar
  • G7 - Picture-on-glass design with foldable integrated sound bar. Available in 77 inches.
  • W7 - Picture-on-wall design with separate sound bar. Available in 77 inches.

Firmware Version

Most recent firmware version: 4.70.36 (US), 4.70.65 (EU), 4.70.70 (Korea)

http://www.lg.com/us/support-product...D65B7P#manuals

There is now a dedicated firmware thread here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...2-12-17-a.html

Firmware changes (as per forum members; not as per LG)
  • Fixes Youtube HDR!

Here's a good video reviewing some of the changes for 4.70.07

Official Changelog for 4.70.30 (from the Korean version)

There are also reports that LG may have added eARC (which allows uncompressed audio to be sent back along that ARC channel over HDMI), but there is no confirmation since no one seems to own a receiver (does one even exist?) that supports eARC.
Known Firmware Bugs


Software update cannot be applied to the TV.
  • For some reason the software update wasn't working on my first flash drive formatted to FAT32. I tried a different flash drive formatted to NTFS and it worked fine.
  • If I had to guess, it's probably because the filename for the update file was too long for FAT32.

Youtube HDR is not working for some Youtube videos
  • FIXED! in the 4.70.30 firmware!
  • Videos look "washed" out with incorrect colors. To compare, try downloading the video and playing it on the TV built-in media player.
  • See this post for an example of what this looks like
  • Last known working firmware for this was 3.50.x
  • No current workaround

PC mode + 4:4:4 Chroma + HDR is broken
  • If you set an input to "PC" (through Inputs > All Inputs > Change Icon), and try to output 4:4:4 Chroma in HDR, the display locks to 8-bit color mode which causes HDR to be washed out and causes awful banding
  • You can sort-of work around this by setting the SDR mode to Game mode and the HDR mode to HDR Game mode to achieve the same low input-lag, but you won't get 4:4:4 Chroma. For more details on the correct settings for this, see this post
  • It's currently impossible to get 4:4:4 Chroma in HDR with low input lag
  • PC mode works fine in SDR
  • PC mode is broken in HDR mode even if Chroma is not forced to 4:4:4, for using a PC. There are reports that this may work for a console if set up properly

HDR Game mode is dim

LG has intentionally dimmed HDR Game mode (as compared to other HDR modes). LG claims this is an intentional change to the EOTF curve. You can somewhat work around this by fiddling with the "Dynamic Contrast" control.
Bitstreaming Dolby Atmos from the Xbox One to the TV results in no audio
Picture Defects / Oddities

Vertical "jailbars" on dark grey scenes
Example:
  • Most visible on a 5% grey background or a panning shot in a dark scene
  • There are reports that this may improve over time with use (up to a few hundred hours)

Yellow Banding visible at certain angles
Example:
  • Most visible on 100% white or 100% yellow screens
  • Different parts of the screen may appear more or less yellow depending on your horizontal angle to the TV
  • There are reports that this may improve over time with use (up to a few dozen hours)

Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)
  • OLED displays will automatically reduce their brightness when the content on the screen is too bright
  • This is very rarely noticeable in normal content
  • LG employs two different types of ABL; the first one (ABL) kicks in when the entire screen is lit up above 150 nits, the second one (ASBL) kicks in when the screen displays a static image for more than 60 seconds.
  • The second type appears to be defeatable using the LG service menu, but I haven't tried it: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...g-oled-tv.html
  • An OLED setting of 35 or below (in SDR) seems to prevent ABL from kicking in all together.

Temporary Image Retention
  • OLED technology is susceptible to temporary image retention where a static picture that has been displayed for more than a few minutes is temporarily visible after it is removed
  • This is normal and not a reason to panic
  • If the retention does not go away after a few minutes, try running a "Pixel refresher" cycle under Settings > Picture > OLED Panel Settings
  • If the retention still does not go away, you may have permanent burn-in, but this is very, very rare under normal use cases

Permanent Burn-in

Rtings has an excellent explanation and test of this. Please refer to it here: www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled
Confusing Settings Explanation

How to get Chroma 4:4:4

In order to get Chroma 4:4:4 (read about it here: http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling), you need to label an input "PC." This can be done under Inputs > All Inputs > Change Label. Once you've labelled an input "PC," all picture modes will support 4:4:4 Chroma and have low input lag.
How to get low input lag for gaming/PC Use

If you're not interested in Chroma 4:4:4 and just want lowered input lag, this can be accomplished by setting the picture mode to Game or HDR Game which will reduce the input lag.
The De-judder (dejudder) and De-blur (deblur) settings

You can access these two setting if you set TruMotion to "User." Dejudder controls 30 Hz (and below) to 120 Hz motion interpolation. Deblur controls 60 Hz (down to 30 Hz) to 120 Hz motion interpolation. Both introduce the Soap Opera Effect.
(WiP)
Recommended Picture Settings
@jbebel has posted an amazingly useful spreadsheet, which is a great place to start: link.

In general, the recommendation is to stick to ISF (Dark Room) for SDR viewing, and Cinema for HDR viewing. Note that the TV uses different picture modes for SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision. To adjust the HDR picture mode and settings, simply play something that uses the format. This will switch the TV over to the appropriate mode and allow you to adjust the picture settings.

The only settings that should be changed are Sharpness (which can be dialed down on high quality content), Noise Reduction (same). In SDR, you can also change OLED Light (which can be adjusted based on how bright your room is), and Gamma (same).

With the latest update, some members are saying that the Technicolor presets may be better than ISF (Dark Room) and Cinema.

Here are some calibration results from @sonoftumble ! Post

Last edited by tocirahl; 02-23-2018 at 01:14 PM.
tocirahl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 08:36 AM
Senior Member
 
ataneruo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Also worth mentioning that LG intentionally dimmed Game Mode HDR in a recent firmware update (I don’t remember which one) and the limited workarounds for this issue. Presumably this was to increase detail but there is speculation that is was to reduce chances of burn-in which is possible with static HUDs/meters in games over repeated marathon sessions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ataneruo is offline  
post #3 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 10:20 AM
Member
 
lazer711's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ataneruo View Post
Also worth mentioning that LG intentionally dimmed Game Mode HDR in a recent firmware update (I don’t remember which one) and the limited workarounds for this issue. Presumably this was to increase detail but there is speculation that is was to reduce chances of burn-in which is possible with static HUDs/meters in games over repeated marathon sessions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Does this affect the 2017 C7 models? Or only the 2016 models?
lazer711 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 03:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mikek's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: chicago, IL USA
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by tocirahl View Post
Hi everyone, I'm starting this thread because it's way too hard for new owners to catch up on what's going on. I'm just collection general useful information.

If you'd like to see something added to this thread, just reply or PM me. I'll try to keep this OP at least somewhat up to date.

Firmware Version

Most recent (US) firmware version: 4.70.07

People seem to be receiving this update in "waves." Simply enable automatic updates in Settings > General > About TV and wait.

If you're feeling impatient, you can upgrade to the publicly released Korean firmware (4.70.06) which you can download and install using the instructions here: post

The consensus seems to be that it's more or less identical to 4.70.07 and your set will still automatically update to 4.70.07 when it becomes available.

Firmware changes (as per forum members; not as per LG)
  • Added Technicolor mode in both SDR and HDR
  • Fixed Lip-sync issues with some apps

There are also reports that LG may have added eARC (which allows uncompressed audio to be sent back along that ARC channel over HDMI), but there is no confirmation since no one seems to own a receiver (does one even exist?) that supports eARC.
Known Firmware Bugs

Youtube HDR is not working for some Youtube videos
  • TODO: which videos work, and which don't?
  • last known working firmware for this was 3.50.x
  • no current workaround

PC mode + HDR is broken
  • if you set an input to "PC" (through Inputs > All Inputs > Change Icon), which is designed to reduce input lag and set Chroma to 4:4:4, the display locks to 8-bit color mode which causes HDR to be washed out
  • you can sort-of work around this by setting the SDR mode to Game mode and the HDR mode to HDR Game mode to achieve the same low input-lag, but you won't get 4:4:4 Chroma
  • it's currently impossible to get 4:4:4 Chroma in HDR with low input lag
  • PC mode works fine in SDR

HDR Game mode is dim

LG has intentionally dimmed HDR Game mode (as compared to other HDR modes). LG claims this is to reduce burn-in issues with static game display elements.
Picture Defects / Oddities

Vertical "jailbars" on dark grey scenes
TODO: Add a photo
  • Most visible on a 5% grey background or a panning shot in a dark scene
  • There are reports that this may improve over time with use (up to a few hundred hours)

Yellow Banding visible at certain angles
TODO: Add a photo
  • Most visible on 100% white or 100% yellow screens
  • Different parts of the screen may appear more or less yellow depending on your horizontal angle to the TV
  • There are reports that this may improve over time with use (up to a few dozen hours)

Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)
  • OLED displays will automatically reduce their brightness when the content on the screen is too bright
  • This is very rarely noticeable in normal content
  • LG employs two different types of ABL; the first one (ABL) kicks in when the entire screen is lit up above 150 nits, the second one (ASBL) kicks in when the screen displays a static image for more than 60 seconds.
  • The second type appears to be defeatable using the LG service menu, but I haven't tried it: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...g-oled-tv.html
  • An OLED setting of 35 or below (in SDR) seems to prevent ABL from kicking in all together.

Temporary Image Retention
  • OLED technology is susceptible to temporary image retention where a static picture that has been displayed for more than a few minutes is temporarily visible after it is removed
  • This is normal and not a reason to panic
  • If the retention does not go away after a few minutes, try running a "Pixel refresher" cycle under Settings > Picture > OLED Panel Settings
  • If the retention still does not go away, you may have permanent burn-in, but this is very, very rare under normal use cases

Permanent Burn-in

Rtings has an excellent explanation and test of this. Please refer to it here: www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled
Confusing Settings Explanation

How to get Chroma 4:4:4

In order to get Chroma 4:4:4 (read about it here: http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling), you need to label an input "PC." This can be done under Inputs > All Inputs > Change Label. Once you've labelled an input "PC," all picture modes will support 4:4:4 Chroma and have low input lag.
How to get low input lag for gaming/PC Use

If you're not interested in Chroma 4:4:4 and just want lowered input lag, this can be accomplished by setting the picture mode to Game or HDR Game which will reduce the input lag.
(WiP)
Recommended Picture Settings

I cannot remember who originally posted this spreadsheet, but it has some very useful information:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=854865656

In general, the recommendation is to stick to ISF (Dark Room) for SDR viewing, and Cinema for HDR viewing. Note that the TV uses different picture modes for SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision. To adjust the HDR picture mode and settings, simply play something that uses the format. This will switch the TV over to the appropriate mode and allow you to adjust the picture settings.

The only settings that should be changed are Sharpness (which can be dialed down on high quality content), Noise Reduction (same). In SDR, you can also change OLED Light (which can be adjusted based on how bright your room is), and Gamma (same).

With the latest update, some members are saying that the Technicolor presets may be better than ISF (Dark Room) and Cinema.
Wow you just summed up about 95% of a 400 page thread.

You may want to add a FAQ.

One FAQ answer is clicking in the upper left for info. Also the TV always upscales to 2160p.
mikek is offline  
post #5 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 04:16 PM
Member
 
jlangner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 11
My Onkyo receiver now says that the Dolby Vision version in this update is unsupported

Onkyo TX-NR676
jlangner is offline  
post #6 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 04:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
william06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South central Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,247
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 881 Post(s)
Liked: 491
Very nice thread lot of effort
william06 is online now  
post #7 of 154 Old 10-24-2017, 06:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
joe01880's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lost in Cyberspace
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I have a LG 65-B7P, I also own a Pioneer Elite SC 91 receiver and a Samsung UBD-K8500 Blu Ray player.
I run the Pioneer in a 7.2 configuration with 2 side wide channels. I have low ceilings so Atmos is pretty much not an workable option in my TV room with the Klipsch speakers I currently have. LCR= RC3 series 2, side surround F2's, front wide and rear back Quintets, and two 12" 300 watt subwoofers.
What's the best way to configure the audio?
Components into the receiver and use the ARC out on the receiver to the ARC IN on the B7 for video or wire the components to the HDMI inputs on the B7 and ARC back to the receiver for audio..Will that even work?
I'm looking for the best way to decode and play back surround sound as best I can while using the best codecs available ie DTS MASTER and Dolby HD etc.?
Thanks,

Joe

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

I miss Tribune

Last edited by joe01880; 10-24-2017 at 06:54 PM.
joe01880 is offline  
post #8 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 12:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
JakiChan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Look at the setting spreadsheet, where are the "de judder" and "de blur" settings I've seen referred to?
ataneruo likes this.
JakiChan is offline  
post #9 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 02:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked: 369
Great job with the OP! I don't own a 2017, but some of the info applies to other model years. Very useful.

I would just suggest in the BI section, you may want to add that heavy gamers or news watchers pull up full screen color slides every 50-100 hours or so to check for BI. It only takes a few minutes at most, and will help catch anything before it becomes noticeable in most content. I know most gamers on AVS probably know about this preventive measure, but some may not.

LG OLED65B6P
no1special is offline  
post #10 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 02:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RobertR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,033
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 341
OP:

This video shows the broken HDR in youtube. It'll be washed out on the LG youtube app.
RobertR1 is offline  
post #11 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 02:40 AM
Senior Member
 
ataneruo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Also worth mentioning here that there is no difference in panel quality between the six 2017 models. (W/G/E/C/B7P/B7A). The panels are identical. The only differences are in the form factor, stand, frame, and internal speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sonoftumble likes this.

ataneruo is offline  
post #12 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 03:03 AM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tocirahl View Post
Hi everyone, I'm starting this thread because it's way too hard for new owners to catch up on what's going on. I'm just collection general useful information.

If you'd like to see something added to this thread, just reply or PM me.
Great collection of info, very good work

I would only add the following (in the order and form you like):

  • As I can also confirm that PC Mode is currently broken in HDR Game Mode (washed out colors, vertical banding, HDR limited to 8-bit), the best way to game right now is to set HDMI Input label to "Game Console", and using SDR Game and HDR Game picture modes with the updated calibrated settings you can find -> HERE
  • To fix the dimming of HDR Game mode compared to previous firmware, it will suffice enabling Dynamic Contrast and set it to LOW (this will enable Active HDR only, without dynamic contrast alterations, so the image will bright up without degrading quality in any way. This will work only for 2017 LG OLEDs, and not for the last year models. This will not work in PC Mode, where DC option is disabled and grayed out)
  • Dolby Atmos bitstreaming through HDMI currently does not work with Xbox One S (no audio from internal speakers)
  • The new European official Firmware is 04.70.06 , and for people who are not able to upgrade via OTA yet, they can download and proceed to manual USB upgrade downloading the firmware from official LG servers -> HERE
  • The official changelog for 4.70.06/4.70.07 (translated from Korean site) is:

    2. Final Ver
    -04.70.06

    3. Change contents
    ⓐ Tweeter Speaker No sound output problem and video
    ⓑ BT Soundbar connected after sound bar volume is up to MAX
    ⓒ Magic remote control Pairing is interrupted
    Ⓓ Glitter Noise
    Ⓔ Improved screen blinking when channel switching after DTV zoom zoom termination
    수정 OLED DTV Lipsync correction
    Ⓖ ATV Horizontal bars at the bottom of the screen
    개선 Improve the backlight off shop
    개선 Improved keylessness after pressing Menu key after AC On
    Ⓙ White Flicker issues to improve
    Ⓚ (Update) UHD ATSC3.0 reception problem response
    Ⓛ (update) 17 year HDR10, HLG correspondence
    Ⓜ T8 Store stream equipment improvement response (03.60.15)
    Ⓝ OLED TV improved Dolby 5.1ch audio Lip-Sync (03.60.25)
    Ⓞ Dolby TrueHD support (04.70.06) ⓟImage
    Flicker improvement (Deep Color ON (04.70.06)


That's all I got for now.
Thank you again.

Cheers,
Paolo
mightymouseusf likes this.

Last edited by P40L0; 10-25-2017 at 03:24 AM.
P40L0 is offline  
post #13 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 06:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
noobtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked: 308
Another video that plays washed out in youtube:

See the unexpected from Samsung and Redbull in HDR:


Attached pics are of the downloaded version from here , playing in the LG media player, and the washed out youtube version. The youtube version looks much worse in reality than is apparent in the pics.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0455-small.JPG
Views:	334
Size:	80.4 KB
ID:	2304490   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0456-small.JPG
Views:	294
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	2304492  

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
noobtv is offline  
post #14 of 154 Old 10-25-2017, 03:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
noobtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked: 308
OP, please add something about the new firmware to say that it does NOT allow the internal media player to play lossless TrueHD or TrueHD/Atmos audio tracks.

It does allow the TV to transcode TrueHD coming in from HDMI to DD+ on ARC however.

Those questions keep on coming up.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
noobtv is offline  
post #15 of 154 Old 10-29-2017, 03:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe01880 View Post
I have a LG 65-B7P, I also own a Pioneer Elite SC 91 receiver and a Samsung UBD-K8500 Blu Ray player.
I run the Pioneer in a 7.2 configuration with 2 side wide channels. I have low ceilings so Atmos is pretty much not an workable option in my TV room with the Klipsch speakers I currently have. LCR= RC3 series 2, side surround F2's, front wide and rear back Quintets, and two 12" 300 watt subwoofers.
What's the best way to configure the audio?
Components into the receiver and use the ARC out on the receiver to the ARC IN on the B7 for video or wire the components to the HDMI inputs on the B7 and ARC back to the receiver for audio..Will that even work?
I'm looking for the best way to decode and play back surround sound as best I can while using the best codecs available ie DTS MASTER and Dolby HD etc.?
ARC does not support lossless codecs, so for best audio quality you should run your components through your receiver, and only use ARC for playback of the TV’s built-in apps. Also, anecdotally, for every one person who gets ARC to work properly, there seem to be ten who have problems.
ataneruo likes this.

LG OLED 65C7P <- Oppo UDP-203 -> Denon AVR-X4300H; Dish Hopper; Apple TV 4K; Paradigm speakers
GordonBlu is offline  
post #16 of 154 Old 10-30-2017, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sonoftumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 231 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2717 Post(s)
Liked: 2476
Really excellent stuff. I'm still learning about this beast so this is awesome!!!.

I will be getting with my calibration partner/guru ( over 3000 calibrations ) and we will be going over the Technicolor option as well. This will be on Wednesday. I will post to my calibration post with any new stuff and let everyone know.

LG OLED65C7P 4-20-19 Calibration SDR/HDR/DV FW 05.80.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57928994
VIZIO M70-D3 Calibration SDR/HDR FW 3.4.8.15: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post55595700

Last edited by sonoftumble; 10-30-2017 at 08:17 PM.
sonoftumble is offline  
post #17 of 154 Old 10-30-2017, 10:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
JakiChan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
[*]The official changelog for 4.70.06/4.70.07 (translated from Korean site) is:
Interesting - the change log doesn't mention the Technicolor stuff?
ataneruo likes this.
JakiChan is offline  
post #18 of 154 Old 10-30-2017, 10:36 AM
Senior Member
 
joys_R_us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Berlin - Germany
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Please do not quote the whole opening post
Jordan420 likes this.
joys_R_us is offline  
post #19 of 154 Old 10-30-2017, 11:36 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakiChan View Post
Interesting - the change log doesn't mention the Technicolor stuff?
Nope, but it's there.
P40L0 is offline  
post #20 of 154 Old 10-31-2017, 08:55 AM
Senior Member
 
nodixe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 55
I just wanted to say that LG didn't say that the new HDR game mode was to reduce burn in. LG said the change in tone mapping was an intentional improvement (I like it but many dont). The 'burn' theory was suggested on the forums and is valid but is still speculation. At the same time I am unaware of a case of bi caused by HDR content (cnn, msnbc, and zelda are not offered in HDR....yet) so who knows?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
ataneruo likes this.
nodixe is offline  
post #21 of 154 Old 11-03-2017, 12:35 AM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 125
New suggested calibration for Gaming after firmware 4.70.07+, both for SDR and HDR -> here
tocirahl likes this.
P40L0 is offline  
post #22 of 154 Old 11-03-2017, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
New suggested calibration for Gaming after firmware 4.70.07+, both for SDR and HDR -> here
Wait I was under the impression that PC mode + HDR was broken in 4.70.x?

Is that not the case?

(Broken means incorrect tone-mapping/EOTF and washed out colors)

Does the technicolor somehow work around this?
tocirahl is offline  
post #23 of 154 Old 11-03-2017, 02:34 PM
Senior Member
 
P40L0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tocirahl View Post
Wait I was under the impression that PC mode + HDR was broken in 4.70.x?

Is that not the case?

(Broken means incorrect tone-mapping/EOTF and washed out colors)

Does the technicolor somehow work around this?
PC Mode is still "broken" if you try to output [email protected] + 4:4:4 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> The HDR will auto-downgrade from 10-bit to 8-bit, introducing color banding and other visual issues

But if source output is configured to output [email protected] + 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> 10-bit HDR is correctly rendered, with no banding, while preserving 21ms input lag. Even selecting "HDR technicolor Expert" mode.

To do so on Xbox One S/X, under Video Settings, you must use "10-bit Colors" + "Standard Color Space" + check the advanced option "Allow YCC 4:2:2".
On PS4 you need to manually select YUV420 for [email protected]
mightymouseusf likes this.
P40L0 is offline  
post #24 of 154 Old 11-03-2017, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
PC Mode is still "broken" if you try to output [email protected] + 4:4:4 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> The HDR will auto-downgrade from 10-bit to 8-bit, introducing color banding and other visual issues

But if source output is configured to output [email protected] + 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> 10-bit HDR is correctly rendered, with no banding, while preserving 21ms input lag. Even selecting "HDR technicolor Expert" mode.

To do so on Xbox One S/X, under Video Settings, you must use "10-bit Colors" + "Standard Color Space" + check the advanced option "Allow YCC 4:2:2".
On PS4 you need to manually select YUV420 for [email protected]
Holy crap did not realize that. I'm going to have to try this on my PC.

EDIT: tried this, didn't work.

Last edited by tocirahl; 11-06-2017 at 06:21 AM.
tocirahl is offline  
post #25 of 154 Old 11-06-2017, 10:41 AM
Member
 
Santz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
PC Mode is still "broken" if you try to output [email protected] + 4:4:4 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> The HDR will auto-downgrade from 10-bit to 8-bit, introducing color banding and other visual issues

But if source output is configured to output [email protected] + 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 Chroma + 10-bit HDR -> 10-bit HDR is correctly rendered, with no banding, while preserving 21ms input lag. Even selecting "HDR technicolor Expert" mode.

To do so on Xbox One S/X, under Video Settings, you must use "10-bit Colors" + "Standard Color Space" + check the advanced option "Allow YCC 4:2:2".
On PS4 you need to manually select YUV420 for [email protected]
I don't think this is broken. HDMI 2.0 supports a max TMDS rate of 600 MHz. 4K @60Hz (4:4:4), with standard 8-bit, is already 594 MHz. 10-bit would increase the data rate by 25%, so that is not possible at 4:4:4 pixel encoding. This would be why 8-bit is being forced in this scenario.

When playing back HDR content (which needs a 10 or 12-bit color bit depth), either a pixel encoding which decreases the necessary bandwidth (like 4:2:0), or a lower refresh rate (like 24Hz), is required.

Sample calculations:
4K @60Hz, 4:4:4, 8-bit = 594 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 8-bit = 297 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 10-bit = 371.25 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 12-bit = 445.5 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 8-bit = 297 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 10-bit = 371.5 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 12-bit = 445.5 MHz
eric.exe and lsorensen like this.
Santz is offline  
post #26 of 154 Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santz View Post
I don't think this is broken. HDMI 2.0 supports a max TMDS rate of 600 MHz. 4K @60Hz (4:4:4), with standard 8-bit, is already 594 MHz. 10-bit would increase the data rate by 25%, so that is not possible at 4:4:4 pixel encoding. This would be why 8-bit is being forced in this scenario.

When playing back HDR content (which needs a 10 or 12-bit color bit depth), either a pixel encoding which decreases the necessary bandwidth (like 4:2:0), or a lower refresh rate (like 24Hz), is required.

Sample calculations:
4K @60Hz, 4:4:4, 8-bit = 594 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 8-bit = 297 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 10-bit = 371.25 MHz
4K @60Hz, 4:2:0, 12-bit = 445.5 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 8-bit = 297 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 10-bit = 371.5 MHz
4K @24Hz, 4:4:4, 12-bit = 445.5 MHz
I 100% agree with your calculations there. However the point remains that the HDR colors are washed out no matter what Chroma and bitdepth are chosen. Even in 24 Hz 4:4:4, 10-bit, the colors don't look correct.
tocirahl is offline  
post #27 of 154 Old 11-06-2017, 11:11 AM
Member
 
Santz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by tocirahl View Post
I 100% agree with your calculations there. However the point remains that the HDR colors are washed out no matter what Chroma and bitdepth are chosen. Even in 24 Hz 4:4:4, 10-bit, the colors don't look correct.
Understood. I just wanted to make sure no one was expecting 4K/60 4:4:4 to work correctly at anything other than 8-bit.
Santz is offline  
post #28 of 154 Old 11-07-2017, 01:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakiChan View Post
Look at the setting spreadsheet, where are the "de judder" and "de blur" settings I've seen referred to?
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/...comparison_207

Quote:
The LG C7P is judder free when movies are played via 24p sources like DVDs, Blu-ray players, and native streaming apps. To be able to display 24p content without judder, the 'TruMotion' option must be set to 'User' and both the 'De-Judder' and 'De-Blur' sliders set to zero (when set to 0, no soap opera effect will be added).

When it come to movies playing via a 60p/60i source like cable boxes, the C7 was able to remove judder completely just by turning on the 'Real cinema' option.
So this is confusing. They say that Real Cinema removes all judder, but then say in another sentence to use 0/0 de-judder/de-blur.

I don't have this tv yet, but I will soon. Do people agree with this statement? Or should Real Cinema be used instead? Or some other settings?

I don't like the soap opera affect, but I don't like bad stuttering judder either.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #29 of 154 Old 11-07-2017, 02:42 AM
Senior Member
 
ataneruo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/...comparison_207





So this is confusing. They say that Real Cinema removes all judder, but then say in another sentence to use 0/0 de-judder/de-blur.



I don't have this tv yet, but I will soon. Do people agree with this statement? Or should Real Cinema be used instead? Or some other settings?



I don't like the soap opera affect, but I don't like bad stuttering judder either.

The point is that Real Cinema removes any artificial judder caused by 3:2 pulldown in 24hz content. However, any judder inherent to the source will remain visible (and even be accentuated by sample-and-hold OLED panel technology). LG offers motion processing to compensate for this inherent source judder, available as dejudder/deblur.

I am sensitive to motion, but despise SOE. I get acceptable results at dejudder/deblur at 2/2. Dejudder is the important one. Deblur apparently only has effects on 60 Hz content which is not available widely. The mechanism is still not well-understood, and is poorly explained by LG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ataneruo is offline  
post #30 of 154 Old 11-07-2017, 06:41 AM
Member
 
ccrouleyarl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thank you for starting this. It answered so many of my questions!
ajnelson4 and thediscman like this.
ccrouleyarl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off