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post #1 of 53 Old 12-16-2017, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony OLED - CES 2018

I just found out I won't be able to make it to CES this year. I admit the biggest draw for me was the new OLEDs. I'm hoping we might see something beyond 77" but I might get a 77 this coming year provided Sony takes the stand off and puts the electronics in a seperate box. I'll be living vicariously through those from this forum who get a chance to check out all the CES goodness. I really hope we'll see some HDMI 2.1 goodness since these probably won't ship until April and who knows when the 77" units will ship - seems like in the past they ship right before they show off the newer replacement model at CES which is a bitter pill.
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post #2 of 53 Old 12-17-2017, 07:16 PM
 
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dont hope for hdmi 2.1 in tv's in 2018.
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post #3 of 53 Old 12-18-2017, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 53 Old 12-18-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
dont hope for hdmi 2.1 in tv's in 2018.
I would disagree, pretty sure that LG will be first to market and will launch in 2018.
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post #5 of 53 Old 12-18-2017, 02:51 PM
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Vincent Teoh's latest video shares his thoughts on why HDMI 2.1 won't be available in 2018 consumer sets


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post #6 of 53 Old 12-19-2017, 04:06 AM
 
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I would disagree, pretty sure that LG will be first to market and will launch in 2018.
Since you used the words LG will....may i have the link where lg or any manufacturer has said hdmi 2.1 is certain for tv's in 2018? i think it'll take one more year to sort it out so 2019, if a manufacturer releases a large screen version of a tv model in late 2018, it may have it. But otherwise no for next year.
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post #7 of 53 Old 12-24-2017, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the new Denon / HDMI units will have HDMI 2.1 ports on them so hopefully LG/Sony will also have HDMI 2.1 ports as well.
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post #8 of 53 Old 12-25-2017, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post
Looks like the new Denon / HDMI units will have HDMI 2.1 ports on them so hopefully LG/Sony will also have HDMI 2.1 ports as well.
Of course if they add eARC then they can claim HDMI 2.1. They don't even have to support any other features to claim it.

So by that logic, this years Denon/Marantz already have HDMI 2.1 after adding eARC support with firmware updates.
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post #9 of 53 Old 12-27-2017, 12:01 AM
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excepted to see what sony has instore for 2018 though im not optimistic . idc if there is bigger sizes i just want some PQ improvements
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post #10 of 53 Old 12-28-2017, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Of course if they add eARC then they can claim HDMI 2.1. They don't even have to support any other features to claim it.

So by that logic, this years Denon/Marantz already have HDMI 2.1 after adding eARC support with firmware updates.
+1



The HDMI 2.1 compliance is not based on the HDMI chipset, a new full-featured HDMI 2.1 chipset or an upgraded chipset. It is only based on the HDMI 2.1 compliance tests.

According to Jeff Park, Technical Director of HDMI LA, a HDMI 2.0 => HDMI 2.1 firmware upgrade is possible if the HDMI chipset was designed to be upgradable.
https://cepro.ehmedia.co/webinar-confirmation11710499

The absence of a full-featured HDMI 2.1 chipset should not become an excuse for not upgrading the current 2017 TV (and a fortiori 2018 TV) to be compliant with HDMI 2.1 eARC and HDMI 2.1 dynamic metadata transmission in 2018.
Obviously, these current TV should also be upgraded to support SMPTE ST 2094 Dolby Vision (to be interoperable with some future ATSC 3.0 STB), Technicolor HDR (aka SL-HDR1) and HDR10+ (to be interoperable with future external HDR10+ media players).
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Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

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post #11 of 53 Old 12-28-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post
Looks like the new Denon / HDMI units will have HDMI 2.1 ports on them so hopefully LG/Sony will also have HDMI 2.1 ports as well.
How exactly would you benefit from hdmi 2.1 Boe? 4K htpc ?

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post #12 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I do have a 4K HTPC. I'm hoping for a higher refresh /variable screen. I enjoy gaming. It is funny - now that 3D is pretty much gone - 3D would have benefitted immensely from HDMI 2.1
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post #13 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 09:10 AM
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OLED screen sizes beyond 77" would not be a hot topic IMO because the cost would be astronomical. A Z9D 100" is already $60k. A 100" OLED would be at least that much or higher. I would think they would focus more growing the OLED market than >77" screen sizes. How many people would be able to buy a $75k TV? Besides, since Sony doesn't make OLED displays, that wouldn't be on them, anyway.

Talking about OLED displays, sooner or later Sony will likely switch to displays from JOLED instead of LG Display. When that happens, THAT will be the biggest news to hit the OLED TV industry. 1) it will broaden the OLED display market, which is currently owned by LG. 2) It will introduce RGB OLED (LG uses WOLED), which will allow for much brighter displays. The delay on this would be related to when JOLED can create displays at 55" and 65" sizes. I suspect it won't happen in 2018 -- more likely 2019.

As long as Sony gets their OLED displays from LG, the only differences would be in the chipsets and external features (e.g.: HDMI 2.1), which, to me, is ho hum. Wake me when RGB OLED hits the market.
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post #14 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 10:03 AM
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RGB OLED did, in 2013, but quickly retreated. Where is the proof that JOLED is working on mainstreaming production of anything beyond monitor sizes? That is a step up from phones/tablets, but 2019 for televisions sounds too bullish.
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post #15 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
RGB OLED did, in 2013, but quickly retreated. Where is the proof that JOLED is working on mainstreaming production of anything beyond monitor sizes? That is a step up from phones/tablets, but 2019 for televisions sounds too bullish.
Early RGB OLED designs had uniformity issues. The Japanese TV manufacturers gave up support for the technology. It was easier for Korean LG to go down the WOLED route in order to get OLED on the market, which they did. But, it has always been clear that RGB is more efficient and produces better results once the issues are resolved. Now, the Japanese companies are reinvesting big into JOLED. It's just a matter of time.

Go to JOLED website. There's enough info there to see the writing on the wall. I don't disagree -- 2019 is probably too bullish. But, one can hope.

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post #16 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 10:49 AM
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Samsung's one-off 55" RGB OLED TV from 2013 is more uniform than most WOLEDs of 2017 (or any year for that matter). Their biggest problem was the cost of vapor deposition and associated yields.

JOLED's hopes are pretty much pinned on printing (and adequate achievement of blue lifetimes).
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post #17 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Samsung's one-off 55" RGB OLED TV from 2013 is more uniform than most WOLEDs of 2017 (or any year for that matter). Their biggest problem was the cost of vapor deposition and associated yields.



JOLED's hopes are pretty much pinned on printing (and adequate achievement of blue lifetimes).

Did the Samsung OLED not have the near-black banding problems that WOLED has? I saw one in a Magnolia once and read a few reviews, but didn’t research enough about owner pros and cons due to its high price and its curve.

Such a weird TV. They released that one and only model and that was the end of OLED TVs for Samsung.


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post #18 of 53 Old 12-29-2017, 01:43 PM
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I never got to see one in person, but the few samples of the grayscale I've seen reveal a much smoother backplane than the typical WOLED.
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post #19 of 53 Old 12-30-2017, 06:19 AM
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LG's 1080p panels didn't have such visible banding either. 4K seems to be at least part of the issue.

It makes every kind of sense for JOLED to compete in monitors first. That market is completely untapped at the moment. We have 5"-8" phones and tablets, 12"-14" laptops, and then 55"-77" TVs, with nothing in between.

A 27"-44" OLED monitor would be a lot cheaper to produce than a 55" TV, command at least as high an introduction price - look at what 33"-38" LCD monitors sell for - and avoid the uncertainty of competition. And the PC crowd has had its eye on OLED since the beginning of CRT's decline.
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post #20 of 53 Old 12-30-2017, 09:42 AM
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The 55EA9800 (coincided with Samsung's 55" OLED panel) I have has more subtle banding, but the backplane is still not uniformly lit (see below) and thus makes a mess out of near-black scenes. This was a $14k panel at one point.

JOLED must be fairly confident in lifetime achievement if they're starting with monitors.
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post #21 of 53 Old 12-30-2017, 05:34 PM
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LG's 1080p panels didn't have such visible banding either. 4K seems to be at least part of the issue.
I guess these guys didn't get the memo:

"A full screen raster pattern revealed vertical stripes appearing on signals between 1 and 20 ft. lamberts as seen in the photo above"

Same old panel lottery in 2013 as 2017 (and most likely 2018).

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Did the Samsung OLED not have the near-black banding problems that WOLED has? I saw one in a Magnolia once and read a few reviews, but didn’t research enough about owner pros and cons due to its high price and its curve.

Such a weird TV. They released that one and only model and that was the end of OLED TVs for Samsung.
We do have a Samsung OLED owner's thread here. The few owners present did not report any visible uniformity issues. But these were essentially hand-made prototypes sold to the public. Who knows how many they scrapped to produce that 100 perfect samples sold at retail.
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post #22 of 53 Old 12-31-2017, 06:48 AM
 
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a printed rgb oled with 1500 niits peak luminance and trouble free near black performance and a lot more people would jump in from the lcd bandwagon. I hope joled can master tv sized panels, it wont be happening any time soon though. lg's wrgb is a hit n miss. many people took the good with the bad and learned to live with the bad, others did not. I am among the latter group and hoping for better with oled.
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post #23 of 53 Old 12-31-2017, 11:29 AM
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I was forced off the plasma bandwagon unfortunately. A lot more? I just wonder if you can quantify that. Won't mean much in a commoditized TV market where the price of such a beast would be sky high.
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post #24 of 53 Old 12-31-2017, 10:06 PM
 
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I was forced off the plasma bandwagon unfortunately. A lot more? I just wonder if you can quantify that. Won't mean much in a commoditized TV market where the price of such a beast would be sky high.
talking about people who have stayed with lcd's... samsung, sony etc. many of such people aren't yet convinced by oled. try the lcd section of the forum, it still gets more activity than the oled section. I don't think people who have used transmissive have anything against oled but the uniformity flaws, fear of developing BI and some weaknesses compared to good lcd's (near black detail, peak brightness etc.) have kept people away. i hope joled can jump into the fray with better panels, i went the transmissive route with the x930e but i'll revisit oled when/if the oled tech gets better. I understand that currently the price of a rgb oled for a tv sized panel would be really high, but hopefully joled (or a Chinese manufacturer) can master at reasonable cost and give lgd competition , which oled tech desperately needs.

Ah, my first 2018 post.
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post #25 of 53 Old 01-01-2018, 02:23 AM
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talking about people who have stayed with lcd's... samsung, sony etc. many of such people aren't yet convinced by oled.
And the OLED owners are not convinced by LCD with all the issues about LCD uniformity, viewing angle and panel contrast... Even many LCD owners like me aren´t. LCD TVs have much more uniformity issues than OLED ever had.

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post #26 of 53 Old 01-01-2018, 03:34 AM
 
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And the OLED owners are not convinced by LCD with all the issues about LCD uniformity, viewing angle and panel contrast... Even many LCD owners like me aren´t. LCD TVs have much more uniformity issues than OLED ever had.
you are in the minority if you think lcd's in the current state have more uniformity issues than oled. lcd is a mature, almost harnessed technology , oled is still a developing technology. I have seen those bands in grey scenes in oled, and owning both a lcd and projector, that is much worse of an issue than having dse or occasional light bleed on an lcd or rainbow color effect on a projector.
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post #27 of 53 Old 01-01-2018, 06:56 AM
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I thought this thread was about 2018 Sony OLED's? What a waste to even read it, as there is a little about Sony OLED's on this thread. Can't figure out how so many of these threads get so off topic. Crazy!
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post #28 of 53 Old 01-04-2018, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure there will be some great threads on Sony OLEDs when CES finally arrives. I'm really hoping for 2 things - HDMI 2.1 and a separate electronics box that fits into a HT cabinet (not like that LG monstrosity) - no speaker or detachable speaker/subwoofer that never has to leaving the shipping box.
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post #29 of 53 Old 01-04-2018, 07:01 AM
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When does Sony usually post their CES news, LG already released info about their 2018 TVs
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post #30 of 53 Old 01-04-2018, 09:18 AM
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I'm sure there will be some great threads on Sony OLEDs when CES finally arrives. I'm really hoping for 2 things - HDMI 2.1 and a separate electronics box that fits into a HT cabinet (not like that LG monstrosity) - no speaker or detachable speaker/subwoofer that never has to leaving the shipping box.
I would think you have maybe a 1 in 1000000 chance of getting what you are hoping for.

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