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post #541 of 559 Old 01-03-2019, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
LG unveils 2019 4K OLED TVs with HDMI 2.1 - C9, E9 & W9
LG C9, E9, W9 4K OLED TVs
LG has announced that its OLED TV line-up for 2019 will comprise the C9, E9, and W9 ranges with 4K resolution as well as B9 that will come a little later in the year. The company also confirmed that its first 8K OLED model will be the Z9.

HDMI 2.1 is the headlining feature. Increased bandwidth now allows for up to 4K at 120 frames per second – also referred to as High Frame Rate (HFR) – inputs via HDMI. Last year’s models also supported HFR but only via streaming input.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1546474656

Well,well HDMI 2.1 in 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you see your typo - excitement must have gotten the best of your fingers. Glad its significant to you, not a gamer so forgive me for yawning.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #542 of 559 Old 01-04-2019, 08:27 PM
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He started the thread, so he's clearly been mentally orgasming at the thought for well over a year now. I on the other hand am yawning right alongside you. I want to see the fundamentals improved, and if the higher refresh rates can give the illusion of improved uniformity (via BFI), that's where my excitation lies.
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Last edited by video_analysis; 01-12-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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post #543 of 559 Old 01-12-2019, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, 8K has it's day,oh by the way, HDMI 2.1 is here to stay.

Last edited by 6athome; 01-12-2019 at 04:41 AM.
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post #544 of 559 Old 01-12-2019, 08:49 AM
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post #545 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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SAMSUNG LISTS PRICING ON NEW 8K Q900R QLED TV MODELS

The company revealed at CES 2019 that it was adding to the previously released 85-inch QN85Q900RBFXZA ($14,999.99)

https://hdguru.com/samsung-lists-pri...led-tv-models/

Wow!This is 2,000 dollars cheaper, then the first LG 85in 4K 3d LCD, when it first came out.
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post #546 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 03:59 PM
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That's good, no 3D means less value. Samdung has no choice but to trend downwards on LCD pricing since it is becoming increasingly commoditized. I hope this keeps LG's 88" 4K price at $20k. Competition is good.
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post #547 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
That's good, no 3D means less value. Samdung has no choice but to trend downwards on LCD pricing since it is becoming increasingly commoditized. I hope this keeps LG's 88" 4K price at $20k. Competition is good.
LG in not interested in selling many 88Z9s this year, so the price may well exceed $20K.

Samsung's 82" QN82Q900 for $10K and their 85" QN 85Q900 for $15K signals that 3" is worth ~$3K, so between the 88Z9 being another 3" beyond that, coupled with HDMI2.1, full 60fps refresh rate, and the perfect blacks of WOLED, it's hard not to believe that LG would sell more 88Z9s at $20K than Samsung would sell at 82" or 85" given these prices.

We'll need to wait to see where Samsung prices the 98" QN92Q900 - that probably sets a ceiling on the price for the 88Z9 and LG is probably motivated to sell at least as many 88" 8K WOLEDs as Samsung sells 98" 8K LED/LCDs...

For me, the interesting thing will be to watch 75/77" pricing. Samsung has priced the QN75Q900 at $7000, similar to LG's current discounted pricing for the 77C8. I doubt LG want to let Samsung get much of a head-start in the 75/77" 8K market, so I expect LG's launch MSRP of the 77C9 to be no more than $7K (down from the $9K launch MSRP of the 77C8) and to shadow any discounts on the QN75Q900 pretty closely. I believe we'll see both of these TVs selling under $5K come November.

Samsung's 65" QN65Q900 is for show only at this $5K launch pricing.

The 65C8 launched at $3800 a year ago and is currently discounted to $2700 (after breifly dropping to $2500 last November): https://camelcamelcamel.com/LG-Elect...context=search

I'm guessing we see 65C9 launch pricing of $3500 and possibly even $3000 and it'l likely we'll break under the $2000 floor for a 65" WOLED come November (possibly only the 65B9).

So my prediction is that LG is going to cede the 2019 8K 85/88" market to Samsung (but not the 85"+ 8K market), make certain their 77" 4K WOLEDs outsell Samsung's 75" 8K QLED/LCDs, and at 65" it'll be no contest (between LG's 65" 4K WOLED and Samsung's 65" 8K QLED/LCD - LG is going to be more focused on outselling Samsubg's 65" Q9 4K Flagship TV...).

2020, when all of these 8K TVs support HDMI2.1 and acceptable refresh rates, as well as a fuller lineup of panel sizes, will be more of a real contest for market share at 8K. This year is just to show they are in the 8K game...

(and here is a good question: for identical pricing, which would you find more attractive:

-a 77" 4K WOLED or
-a 65" 8K QLED/LCD?

To me the answer is fairly obvious).

Last edited by fafrd; 01-22-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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post #548 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
(and here is a good question: for identical pricing, which would you find more attractive:

-a 77" 4K WOLED or
-a 65" 8K QLED/LCD?

To me the answer is fairly obvious).
I have the latter on order -- it's expected at BB March 15. As for the first of these, I don't have room for a 77" TV, want 8k (not available now from LG), like brightness, don't appreciate the supposed wonders of OLED.

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post #549 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I have the latter on order -- it's expected at BB March 15. As for the first of these, I don't have room for a 77" TV, want 8k (not available now from LG), like brightness, don't appreciate the supposed wonders of OLED.
'À Chacun Son Goût': https://www.thoughtco.com/a-chacun-son-gout-1371066

(though I suspect you are probably more representative of the exception rather than the rule ).
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post #550 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
'À Chacun Son Goût': https://www.thoughtco.com/a-chacun-son-gout-1371066

(though I suspect you are probably more representative of the exception rather than the rule ).
Your reference gives a translation "there's no accounting for taste". But there is, in this case. I gave my accounting.

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post #551 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

excitement must have gotten the best of your fingers. Glad its significant to you, not a gamer so forgive me for yawning.
Im yawning with you too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
SAMSUNG LISTS PRICING ON NEW 8K Q900R QLED TV MODELS

The company revealed at CES 2019 that it was adding to the previously released 85-inch QN85Q900RBFXZA ($14,999.99)

https://hdguru.com/samsung-lists-pri...led-tv-models/

Wow!This is 2,000 dollars cheaper, then the first LG 85in 4K 3d LCD, when it first came out.
Is this suppose to be good news?

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post #552 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 08:22 PM
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Im yawning with you too.




Is this suppose to be good news?
It's pretty good news for LG Electronics and Sony...
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post #553 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

It's pretty good news for LG Electronics and Sony...
Care to elaborate , $15k is still pricey for most

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post #554 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 08:49 PM
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Care to elaborate , $15k is still pricey for most
LG would love it if the 8K train is slow leaving the station - they'd be pleased if 8K sales in 2019 are low. By 2020, they will have a full 8K line-up (like Samsung already has) and they even succeed to get their 8K panels up to a 120Hz native refresh rate (which NHK is pushing for).

LG is doing so well with Premium 4K TV sales at the sizes they are offerring, that the longer the sweatspot of the market stays centered on 55" and 65" 4K TVs, the better for them.

At $15K, Samsung is going to sell a vanishingly small number of 85" 8K QLED/LCDs this year (especially since they lack HDMI2.1 and can only handle 30fps). This pricing makes it easy for LG to price the 88Z9 at $20K or even $25K and look as 'serious' about 8K as Samsung is.

IHS had originally forecasted 905,000 8K TVs would sell in 2019 and reduced that by half to 430,000 units last November (at the same time they cut their 2018 estimate from 85,000 to 18,000): https://advanced-television.com/2018...-expectations/

The 18,000 8K unit sales in 2018 made with 2 months to go in the year probably reflects some semblance of reality, but even the reduced forecast of 430,000 units this year is not going to happen (especially at these prices).

And again, the longer the move to 8K takes, the more the sweetspot for 8K centers on screen sizes 75" and above and stays away from the 55" and 65" screen sizes where LG's 4K WOLED s are so well-positioned, the better (for them).

At a time when LGD is focused on introduction of MMG to dramatically reduce 65" and 75/77" WOLED panel prices, as well as ramping their first non-Korean manufacturing line, producing 88" 8K WOLEDs is an unwelcome distraction. If through 2019, 8K WOLED production levels can be contained to pilot-line-like volumes (without taking the risk of missing out on a major new developing market shift), this wil be exceedingly good for LG.

Hopefully that is enough elaboration .

Last edited by fafrd; 01-22-2019 at 08:55 PM.
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post #555 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 09:11 PM
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Thanks for the explanation Fafrd, as for 2019 8k buyers, they will be early adopters and will pay high premium prices, just like 4K was. By 2021-2022, the same size 8k will be half price most likely. Unfortunately at the end of the day, most of us will be owning 8k sets in the near future. It's inevitable but also most will be completely fine with current technology than more megapixel resolution.
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post #556 of 559 Old 01-22-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Thanks for the explanation Fafrd, as for 2019 8k buyers, they will be early adopters and will pay high premium prices, just like 4K was. By 2021-2022, the same size 8k will be half price most likely. Unfortunately at the end of the day, most of us will be owning 8k sets in the near future. It's inevitable but also most will be completely fine with current technology than more megapixel resolution.
For those wanting screen 75" and above, I think you are right.

For those wanting 55" and 65" screens, we'll need to see how it all plays out.

We've now got a cross-current behind the drive towards higher resolution and the drive towards higher framerate, which are diametrically opposed (and neither of which has any content to speak of).

So even if we assume that the price premium for 8K resolution goes to 0%, is a 55" 4K TV supporting 240Hz Native Refresh (and VRR) and MPRT of ~2ms going to be considered inferior to a 55" 8K TV only supporting 60Hz with MPRT of ~17ms?

I have a hard time seeing 8K dominate 55" Premium TV sales and think even 65" is questionable...

The smallest 4K TV you can buy right now is 40", while 88% of 40" TVs and 100% of TVs under 40") are 1080p (or less).

The corresponding 'threshold' for 8K TV sizes would be 80" - 8K TVs smaller than 80" may be as hard to find as 4K TVs under 40"...

Last edited by fafrd; 01-22-2019 at 09:30 PM.
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post #557 of 559 Old 01-26-2019, 03:45 PM
 
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LG is doing so well with Premium 4K TV sales at the sizes they are offerring, that the longer the sweatspot of the market stays centered on 55" and 65" 4K TVs, the better for them.
I saw a few reports that LG was doing well with the premiums compared to Samsung (and were eating into what used to be their market) big-time, but not as some over-all general accounting. I still thought they were getting killed in the Walmartising game of TCL, et. al.

Do you have any fafrd charts at the ready (like always )?
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post #558 of 559 Old 01-26-2019, 04:35 PM
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LG would love it if the 8K train is slow leaving the station - they'd be pleased if 8K sales in 2019 are low. By 2020, they will have a full 8K line-up (like Samsung already has) and they even succeed to get their 8K panels up to a 120Hz native refresh rate (which NHK is pushing for).

LG is doing so well with Premium 4K TV sales at the sizes they are offerring, that the longer the sweatspot of the market stays centered on 55" and 65" 4K TVs, the better for them.

At $15K, Samsung is going to sell a vanishingly small number of 85" 8K QLED/LCDs this year (especially since they lack HDMI2.1 and can only handle 30fps). This pricing makes it easy for LG to price the 88Z9 at $20K or even $25K and look as 'serious' about 8K as Samsung is.

IHS had originally forecasted 905,000 8K TVs would sell in 2019 and reduced that by half to 430,000 units last November (at the same time they cut their 2018 estimate from 85,000 to 18,000): https://advanced-television.com/2018...-expectations/

The 18,000 8K unit sales in 2018 made with 2 months to go in the year probably reflects some semblance of reality, but even the reduced forecast of 430,000 units this year is not going to happen (especially at these prices).

And again, the longer the move to 8K takes, the more the sweetspot for 8K centers on screen sizes 75" and above and stays away from the 55" and 65" screen sizes where LG's 4K WOLED s are so well-positioned, the better (for them).

At a time when LGD is focused on introduction of MMG to dramatically reduce 65" and 75/77" WOLED panel prices, as well as ramping their first non-Korean manufacturing line, producing 88" 8K WOLEDs is an unwelcome distraction. If through 2019, 8K WOLED production levels can be contained to pilot-line-like volumes (without taking the risk of missing out on a major new developing market shift), this wil be exceedingly good for LG.

Hopefully that is enough elaboration .
Great info on LG. What about Sony?
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post #559 of 559 Old 02-10-2019, 08:55 AM
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Pricing is up on all the different sizes of 8K Samsungs at BB. Oleds will need to be priced to compete-ish.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchp...=960&keys=keys

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