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post #121 of 559 Old 01-15-2018, 07:23 AM
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Higher the resolution the better. Don't want to be able to tell I'm looking at a TV screen. Want to think I can reach in and grab the gal's...hand. Those who don't see any benefit to 8K...can stick with 4K.




Myself, I'm going to go with the future.
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post #122 of 559 Old 01-15-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I sit 5 feet from my 65 inch 4K with no problem when I get a 75 with 4 or 8K I will move it back maybe 1-2 feet I?m comfortable and I definitely can see a difference. I?m spoiled I can barely tolerate 1080p any more
You're getting benefit from 4K. But will you sit closer with 8K? I mean, is the picture coarseness the only reason for not sitting closer?

Maybe a better question is, what kind of content would make a person want to sit close to an 8K TV? The answer is not simply "content made with 8K cameras". It has to be content with a lot of *relevant* detail...ultra wide shots, not close ups.
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post #123 of 559 Old 01-15-2018, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I sit 5 feet from my 65 inch 4K with no problem when I get a 75 with 4 or 8K I will move it back maybe 1-2 feet I?m comfortable and I definitely can see a difference. I?m spoiled I can barely tolerate 1080p any more
You're getting benefit from 4K. But will you sit closer with 8K? I mean, is the picture coarseness the only reason for not sitting closer?

Maybe a better question is, what kind of content would make a person want to sit close to an 8K TV? The answer is pretty clearly not "content made with 8K cameras". It has to be content with a lot of *relevant* detail...ultra wide shots, not close ups.
Any movie shot with Imax cameras will pretty much look spectacular at home with 75inch plus tvs and more directors are starting to use them more. I like the immersive experience where the screen covers my field of vision without distractions! So I don?t have a problem sitting up close with a larger screen as long as the PQ is not distorted. I?m not banking on 8K to go mainstream yet so. But to each is own!

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post #124 of 559 Old 01-15-2018, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
Any movie shot with Imax cameras will pretty much look spectacular at home with 75inch plus tvs and more directors are starting to use them more. I like the immersive experience where the screen covers my field of vision without distractions! So I don?t have a problem sitting up close with a larger screen as long as the PQ is not distorted. I?m not banking on 8K to go mainstream yet so. But to each is own!
I agree but I want 3D,full field vision,with 8K for me. Now if I could only afford a 100 inch Z9D for the now!
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post #125 of 559 Old 01-15-2018, 02:46 PM
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The closer you get to the screen, the more important the fundamentals (i.e. uniformity) will be, so be careful what you wish for, or you may be looking at your entertainment window through prison bars.
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post #126 of 559 Old 01-16-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by satboy View Post

Native is native even on my 4K TV, no scaling, what I pass to it is what I see.

Am I missing something?
Upscaling might be a misnomer. Whatever is sent to your tv will be scaled to the resolution of your screen. A source of 480i or 720p or 1080i etc do not magically become 4k just because you have a 4k set. The final resolution can be no better than the source. The TV is just extrapolating the pixels that are fed to it to fill the pixels that are on your screen. So, without 4k source material, your 4k TV is no better than a 1080p and the same will be true of 8k.
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post #127 of 559 Old 01-16-2018, 04:42 PM
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Upscaling your 1080 or less resolution to 4k is the 1st benefit. Yep, magic. Interpolating your less than 2160p source is your 2nd magic benefit. Your 3rd, but not final magic benefit is using free algorithm processing on those less than 4k sources to magically upgrade what you see on you UHD display. You will swear you're viewing a UHD source but you'll know it's only a 1080p. I promise, your HD source looks better on a 4k display than it ever did on its native resolution older brother aka 1080p display. Anyone who tells you different needs their eyes examined or needs to get a better display cuz I admit, 1080 on a junk 2160 looks like junk still. So does a UHD source on a junk UHD display for that matter. All this will be relative to 8k as well. Understand, many sell the farm to get great 1080 stuff. As soon as a better format comes around, they clan up hollering how the new format isn't better and will make your eyes bleed and stuff like that. The truth is, they spent their nest egg on what has become antiquated equipment and now they can't afford to do it all over again so dissing new formats makes em' feel better.
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post #128 of 559 Old 01-16-2018, 05:32 PM
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Just for the record I pass onto my TV what the incoming source is, that was what I was originally saying.

Now where the confusion started was with resolution as ones AKA 4K is sized as such. So what the OP was saying is that 1080P on a 4k TV is upscaled to fit the space, just as 720P he was not talking about processing or actually upscaling to 4K form lower signal.

I left it alone as it's two different things.

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post #129 of 559 Old 01-16-2018, 07:19 PM
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This article explains it pretty well
https://www.cnet.com/news/can-4k-tvs...p-look-better/
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post #130 of 559 Old 01-16-2018, 08:24 PM
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8k reminds me of 192 kHz audio sample rate: there are plenty of perceptual studies that confirm that 96 kHz is already overkill; there are plenty of perceptual studies that confirm that 4k is just about the ideal native resolution for visual material; but we're already seeing manufacturers move on to 8k before coming close to mastering the many other areas of picture quality that are still very far from meeting the limits of visual perception.

In that way, 8k reminds me of other cheesy gimmicks like 3D and curved screens: a way to trick gullible consumers instead of putting in the excruciating work of mastering pixel chemistry (which, granted, they are also working on).

With low data rates, deep compression (even in the gold standard Ultra HD Blu Ray format), and extreme chroma subsampling standards, let's address all these deeply flawed fundamental areas before slapping a distracting marketing band aid on inadequate technology.
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post #131 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 12:45 AM
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I beg to differ, stereoscopic video is not a gimmick. Yes, it can be incorporated in a gimmicky fashion, but that sells short the artistic value of many films where the effect enhances the immersion effect of the movie. Yes, curved screens certainly are for anyone aside from a gamer in the sweet spot.
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post #132 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
This article explains it pretty well
https://www.cnet.com/news/can-4k-tvs...p-look-better/
It does because there is scaling and upscaling which is often confused

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post #133 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Upscaling your 1080 or less resolution to 4k is the 1st benefit. Yep, magic. Interpolating your less than 2160p source is your 2nd magic benefit. Your 3rd, but not final magic benefit is using free algorithm processing on those less than 4k sources to magically upgrade what you see on you UHD display. You will swear you're viewing a UHD source but you'll know it's only a 1080p. I promise, your HD source looks better on a 4k display than it ever did on its native resolution older brother aka 1080p display. Anyone who tells you different needs their eyes examined or needs to get a better display cuz I admit, 1080 on a junk 2160 looks like junk still. So does a UHD source on a junk UHD display for that matter. All this will be relative to 8k as well. Understand, many sell the farm to get great 1080 stuff. As soon as a better format comes around, they clan up hollering how the new format isn't better and will make your eyes bleed and stuff like that. The truth is, they spent their nest egg on what has become antiquated equipment and now they can't afford to do it all over again so dissing new formats makes em' feel better.
It is possible for 1080p scaled to UHD to look better than if it's displayed at the native resolution. However, that is not the default/defacto case. A standard bicubic scalar will soften 1080p and degrade it. So, sure madVR using NGU or NNEDI3 can improve 1080p scaling it up to UHD. A typical TV, not so much.

If what you were claiming was true DVDs should look great on modern 1080p or higher resolution TVs, but they don't. DVDs scaled to 1080p through madVR looks surprisingly good, but by the TV, nope...
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post #134 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 11:35 AM
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Thus exactly the reason I wrote "using free algorithm processing on those less than 4k sources to magically upgrade what you see on you UHD display." AKA madVR as you understood. I didn't mention the TV exclusively. The TV provides the avenue. Without it, you're spinning your wheels. The whole point of my post was when someone writes that a source will never look better than it does at its native resolution, even on a higher resolution display, and that no magic will change that fact. On the contrary, lots of magic occurs at the hardware level and the software level. A source can be improved at it's native resolution but it's dramatically elevated on a higher res display. To say a 1080p source will never look any better on an 8k or a 4k display and will simply render just as if it was viewed on a HD display because magic does not occur isn't my experience. It all starts with a higher resolution display. Some of you folks are fighting a good thing. Your best fight would be to encourage studios to start filming in 8k, master it down to 4k, and when 8k is released and sources are thin, at least we can 'enhance' 4k just as we are with 1080 now. Will you be forming the same opinions later: '4k looks no better on an 8k display and there is no magic that will change that so there is no reason to upgrade to 8k displays until 8k sources are prevalent?'

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post #135 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 11:50 AM
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Finally I get a 4K setup and it's outdated already!

I won't upgrade until Commodore 64K comes back.

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post #136 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I beg to differ, stereoscopic video is not a gimmick. Yes, it can be incorporated in a gimmicky fashion, but that sells short the artistic value of many films where the effect enhances the immersion effect of the movie. Yes, curved screens certainly are for anyone aside from a gamer in the sweet spot.
I game on a curved 88" 4K display and sit 6 feet from it in the exact sweet spot: it is an absolutely glorious level of immersion. I will be delighted when I can do the same on an 8K display.
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post #137 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 11:53 AM
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post #138 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 12:18 PM
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Finally I get a 4K setup and it's outdated already!

I won't upgrade until Commodore 64K comes back.

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post #139 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 01:11 PM
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What do you bet the first 8K tv can stream in 8K but can not pass it thru HDMI....LOL
I think that's almost a certainty. Which is why I plan to wait until 2020 before I even consider buying a 8K TV. That and the cost will be way lower.
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post #140 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 01:42 PM
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Give us an oled 4k that has perfect uniformity

We need that "now"
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post #141 of 559 Old 01-17-2018, 01:45 PM
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Reminds me of my 480P is now! post from 1997
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post #142 of 559 Old 01-20-2018, 02:08 AM
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I would rather see a wider aspect, something like 2:1 to 2.3:1 aspect screens rather than 8K. Under like 80” I think it’s going to be near impossible to tell the difference between 4K and 8K at a normal viewing distance of 8-12 feet. Especially if the bitrate for streaming is not increased, which is unlikely anytime soon, at least in the US.
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post #143 of 559 Old 01-20-2018, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Reminds me of my 480P is now! post from 1997
This kind of reminds me of 1080p,remember the 37 inch Westinghouse 1080p monitor? I believe it was the first on the market. The back-lite was florescent lighting.
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post #144 of 559 Old 01-20-2018, 07:59 AM
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I would rather see a wider aspect, something like 2:1 to 2.3:1 aspect screens rather than 8K. Under like 80” I think it’s going to be near impossible to tell the difference between 4K and 8K at a normal viewing distance of 8-12 feet. Especially if the bitrate for streaming is not increased, which is unlikely anytime soon, at least in the US.
They tried the wide aspect TV thing a few years ago. As you can tell from what's currently on the market it didn't take off.
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post #145 of 559 Old 01-20-2018, 09:31 AM
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I'm not sure what the appeal of sitting less than three feet from an 88" screen is, but if some people are into it I guess the money they donate to manufacturers will benefit the rest of us down the line...
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post #146 of 559 Old 01-21-2018, 11:48 AM
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Give us an oled 4k that has perfect uniformity

We need that "now"
I’d take that over all the additional add-ons and whatever K they can throw at me.

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post #147 of 559 Old 01-21-2018, 03:16 PM
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Yup.

I mean, I'd take 8k, if they were offering it for free - especially since it seems to be a trivial problem to solve.

The real evil is the lost opportunity cost. They push 8k and thereby delay meaningful advances in the areas they truly need to solve, for possibly up to a few years, while taking in inflated profits from what appears to be a disappointingly ... "eager" consumer base.
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post #148 of 559 Old 01-21-2018, 03:46 PM
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I’d take that over all the additional add-ons and whatever K they can throw at me.
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Yup.

I mean, I'd take 8k, if they were offering it for free - especially since it seems to be a trivial problem to solve.

The real evil is the lost opportunity cost. They push 8k and thereby delay meaningful advances in the areas they truly need to solve, for possibly up to a few years, while taking in inflated profits from what appears to be a disappointingly ... "eager" consumer base.
But who is to say they can't solve those problems and make the needed advances all the while introducing 8K? Yeah, if they do 8K and just glaze over or ignore the other issues, then that is indeed LAME. I for one though am pretty excited to see this.

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post #149 of 559 Old 01-21-2018, 03:56 PM
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But who is to say they can't solve those problems and make the needed advances all the while introducing 8K? Yeah, if they do 8K and just glaze over or ignore the other issues, then that is indeed LAME. I for one though am pretty excited to see this.
I'd say because they didn't solve the problems during the push for 4k. I doubt they do it for 8k.
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post #150 of 559 Old 01-21-2018, 04:02 PM
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That's true. And we do keep hearing about advances with QD, so I'm optimistic about the future. LG has deservingly been able to rest on its OLED laurels in the retail space for a few years, while now others either are finally caving and adopting their technology or pushing the limits of LCD by using QD filters, more dimming zones, etc. But Samsung's unwillingness to properly address the market has set progress back at least a year.

I would love nothing more than for gullible buyers to subsidize my 4k-TV-that-uses high-quality-chemistry through the purchase of overpriced-8k-sets-that-use-older-chemistry. Unfortunately, capitalism doesn't work that way, and all "premium" features (whether actually premium or not) get lumped into a single overpriced top-tier product level.

All in all, though, I guess apparently it's not hard to pack smaller pixels of existing topology into current screen sizes, so if nothing else best case 8k gets instantly commodified and we don't end up being forced to pay too much extra for a feature that doesn't offer any actual perceptual benefit.
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