LG OLED TVs at CES 2018 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
What is banding?

I've just tuned into oled tvs. I have a 4ish year old sony r550 lcd and absolutely have the ghosting and off angle picture dropout.

I've heard that oleds don't have these problems at all. Would you guys recommend forking over the $ for one of these in 2018 or some other full array local dimming lcd?

What benefit would hdmi2.1 bring if Im not interested in atmos?
Thanks
Banding is a problem with the current OLED manfacturing process that makes vertical bands have slightly different brightness when showing very dark scenes. It varies from panel to panel. Some are pretty good, some are pretty awful. Plenty of pictures in the threads about it.

As for the other things you mentioned, yes OLED does not have those problem. A few panels seem to have a slight change in tint (supposedly the anti reflection coating is likely the cause) when changing the viewing angle, but it is not very much and a lot of people either don't have it or don't notice it. It is nothing like the changes you see on an LCD though. You might get a slight yellow or pink tint to a bright white image of at an angle, although I have seen a couple of people that were seeing tint changes in grass watching soccer games, but that does not seem to be a common case.

HDMI 2.1 has nothing to do with atmos. atmos works fine already with HDMI 2.0.

The features HDMI 2.1 offers are:

More bandwidth (48Gbps rather than 18 allowing 8k or 10k video, as well as video stream compression to fit even more data through).

eARC (Full uncompressed audio sent from the TV to an AVR or soundbar rather than being limited to dolby digital or DTS compressed audio with ARC).

VRR (Variable refresh rate, allowing game consoles to send the next frame when it is done rendering it, rather than being locked to 60Hz, so if the game can render 50 frames per second, you get that, rather than getting effectively 30 frames per second due to having missed the 60Hz update time and having to wait for the next one every frame). So far the Xbox One X is the only device with support for it. No screens do it that I have seen (unless some computer monitors support it since it is related to AMD's version of variable refresh rate).

Dynamic HDR (Well we already have dolby vision doing that with HDMI 2.0, but I think this is HDR10+ or something like that).

Of course a device only has to support one of those features to claim to be HDMI 2.1 compatible.
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post #182 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
i haven't kept up lately.

isn't it true that there are still some modular slot-based AV components (separates or integrated amps) still in service today?
Sure, but those are already rather expensive. Also it seems a better method has become to buy an AVR that supports the audio and video formats you want, that has pre amp outputs for all channels, and then use external amps. That way you can have high quality powerful amps that don't need upgrading very often along with good speakers that don't need upgrading very often, and you just upgrade the AVR part when needed, and it doesn't have to be that powerful since you don't intend to use its amps at all in most cases. It is just the decoder and video switcher. Essentially you treat the AVR as one component in the separates rather than making a purpose built decoder and video switcher that has no amps (since the market for those is way smaller than for AVRs).

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post #183 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffreyMercado View Post
I think most consumers will go for the C8 as it will offer a difference in processor, using the A9. Disappointed they couldn't offer HDMI 2.1
That would have been amazing. So I think many will wait til 2019, as those models will most likely have HDMI 2.1

Please check the battery in your hearing aid...
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post #184 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
What is banding?

I've just tuned into oled tvs. I have a 4ish year old sony r550 lcd and absolutely have the ghosting and off angle picture dropout.

I've heard that oleds don't have these problems at all. Would you guys recommend forking over the $ for one of these in 2018 or some other full array local dimming lcd?

What benefit would hdmi2.1 bring if Im not interested in atmos?
Thanks
This is a good thread to check out.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...ignetting.html
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post #185 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
...
The features HDMI 2.1 offers are

VRR (Variable refresh rate, allowing game consoles to send the next frame when it is done rendering it, rather than being locked to 60Hz, so if the game can render 50 frames per second, you get that, rather than getting effectively 30 frames per second due to having missed the 60Hz update time and having to wait for the next one every frame). So far the Xbox One X is the only device with support for it. No screens do it that I have seen (unless some computer monitors support it since it is related to AMD's version of variable refresh rate).
wow this is huge. Worth waiting for? I really hate to wait until 2019 for this. Im looking at a 4k tv for 70/30 xbox/movies&tv.
Thanks guys
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post #186 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post
also, do you guys think 12bit panels will ever arrive?
Apparently not this year/

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post #187 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
wow this is huge. Worth waiting for? I really hate to wait until 2019 for this. Im looking at a 4k tv for 70/30 xbox/movies&tv.
Thanks guys
Remember every HDMI 2.1 feature is optional. I expect many TVs will support eARC at some point and probably the 48Gbps bandwidth and certainly the dynamic HDR. The VRR on the other hand may in fact be a lot less likely. The way the video processing is done has to change from being a nice predicable 120 or 60 frames per second, to something that dynamically starts processing a frame when it receives a signal that the next frame is ready. This could break a lot of assumptions inherent in the processor design. Of course making such a change could potentially allow some other interesting possibilities, such as better BFI (after all if you can have variable frame duration due to VRR, you could have the black frames much shorter than the picture frames, which does not seem to be the case on current OLEDs with BFI support).

Just remember any TV that is HDMI 2.1 does not have to support every feature. They only need to support one and can leave out any they want.

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post #188 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfy701 View Post
A few thoughts on this running thread --

 Would like to see W7 panel only with no visible speaker.
 Also wanted: 1000+ nitts, a headphone jack
 HDMI 2.1 or 120fps is a 'want' item not a 'need' item. I for one don’t want or need it, as I don’t want my movies to look like soap opera.
 Sony A1E is out of the question for me due to lack of a perpendicular stand and wall-mounting it is a pain.

Final verdict: Keep my 5-y.o. Panasonic Plasma and buy a 65" C7 for $1k in a few years.
How is wall mounting a A1E a pain? It should be just as easy as mounting your Panasonic since the mounting holes are in the same area (center). If anything, LGs are much more problematic since the mounting points are much lower than your Panasonic.
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post #189 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tyrsky View Post
120fps would require hdmi 2.1. The bandwidth in hdmi 2.0x is not enough to deliver true 120fps @ 4k. Displayport is on option of course, which I would prefer as a PC user, but I doubt it...
According to LG, these OLEDs can do 120 Hz @ 4K only via USB and perhaps streaming, not HDMI.
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post #190 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
How is wall mounting a A1E a pain? It should be just as easy as mounting your Panasonic since the mounting holes are in the same area (center). If anything, LGs are much more problematic since the mounting points are much lower than your Panasonic.
I suspect the meaning was that wall mounting in general is pain and that some people strangely believe 5 degrees lean back vs vertical is a big deal and makes the TV horrible. Many people that decided to get the A1E anyhow seem to have immediately realized it is a complete non issue even though they worried about it.

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post #191 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 01:07 PM
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Is 120HZ useful for Ultra HD Blu-rays ? Knowing that it wont work on HDMI plug. I don't know if it can add some benefits. I'm confused..
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post #192 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 01:14 PM
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Is 120HZ useful for Ultra HD Blu-rays ? Knowing that it wont work on HDMI plug. I don't know if it can add some benefits. I'm confused..
Not at this time. You would need a UHD player with 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 and a TV supporting that before UHD could make use of it.

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post #193 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Remember every HDMI 2.1 feature is optional. I expect many TVs will support eARC at some point and probably the 48Gbps bandwidth and certainly the dynamic HDR. The VRR on the other hand may in fact be a lot less likely. The way the video processing is done has to change from being a nice predicable 120 or 60 frames per second, to something that dynamically starts processing a frame when it receives a signal that the next frame is ready. This could break a lot of assumptions inherent in the processor design. Of course making such a change could potentially allow some other interesting possibilities, such as better BFI (after all if you can have variable frame duration due to VRR, you could have the black frames much shorter than the picture frames, which does not seem to be the case on current OLEDs with BFI support).

Just remember any TV that is HDMI 2.1 does not have to support every feature. They only need to support one and can leave out any they want.
A lot of PC monitors already support VRR. I would be more skeptical of any motion enhancement with VRR, but gamers (VRR's primary beneficiary) would likely turn off motion enhancement for lag purposes anyway, so no loss there.
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post #194 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Not at this time. You would need a UHD player with 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 and a TV supporting that before UHD could make use of it.
But if UHD BD's are encoded in 24 fps, is there an interest to have 120hz ? Will there be a visual difference using a higher refresh rates higher than 60hz for these 24 ips videos ? (In the case if my equipment is full HDMI 2.1).

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post #195 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 02:20 PM
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But if UHD BD's are encoded in 24 fps, is there an interest to have 120hz ? Will there be a difference using a higher refresh rates higher than 60hz for these 24 ips videos ? (In the case if my equipment is full HDMI 2.1).
Your player should just send it at 24fps and let your tv do the 5:5 pull down. I guess theoretically the player could perform the pulldown instead, but there shouldn't be much real benefit.
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post #196 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfan9 View Post
Your player should just send it at 24fps and let your tv do the 5:5 pull down. I guess theoretically the player could perform the pulldown instead, but there shouldn't be much real benefit.
Are you saying that 2018 LG WOLEDs should support 5:5 pull down while 2017s and earlier are limited to 3:2 pulldown?
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post #197 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 03:29 PM
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But if UHD BD's are encoded in 24 fps, is there an interest to have 120hz ? Will there be a visual difference using a higher refresh rates higher than 60hz for these 24 ips videos ? (In the case if my equipment is full HDMI 2.1).
Movies at 24fps have no benefit from going to HDMI 2.1 since they barely surpass the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4 as long as you have the player output 24fps and let the TV do the 5:5 work (which it does perfectly well).

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post #198 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 03:32 PM
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Are you saying that 2018 LG WOLEDs should support 5:5 pull down while 2017s and earlier are limited to 3:2 pulldown?
No the 2017 and 2016 (and probably older) do 5:5 fine on 24fps input. Having the panel run at 120Hz and doing that just makes good sense. Wether you enable any motion enhancement on top of it is your choice of course.

The new 120Hz playback on the 2018 is for playing a video file on USB (or streaming) that is natively recorded at 120fps. The 2017 and older can't do that, they can only play 60fps or lower video files (and streaming). The B8 apparently will be limited to either playing 4k 120fps or 4k HDR 60fps (or lower), it won't do 4k with HDR and 120fps at the same time.

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post #199 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 05:35 PM
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Most interested in the HFR-mode and whether it's supported through HDMI 2.0 through 4:2:0, along w/HDR supported.

Wonder if the other manufacturers will be doing something similar with their models, and if it's firmware upgradable.
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post #200 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 05:38 PM
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Most interested in the HFR-mode and whether it's supported through HDMI 2.0 through 4:2:0, along w/HDR supported.

Wonder if the other manufacturers will be doing something similar with their models, and if it's firmware upgradable.
They explicitly said HFR (120Hz) playback is limited to apps and video files on USB since HDMI 2.0 can't do it and they are not adding HDMI 2.1.

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post #201 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 05:46 PM
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So is HFR the new 3D.. Besides gaming I don't see the benefits besides being new a gimmick to sell more TVs

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post #202 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 06:08 PM
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So is HFR the new 3D.. Besides gaming I don't see the benefits besides being new a gimmick to see more TVs

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i would guess it might make a difference if you had hdmi 2.1 a player that outputs in 120fps with hdmi 2.1 and possibly a movie shot in 120fps. other than that i doubt see it doing much? i could be wrong
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
No the 2017 and 2016 (and probably older) do 5:5 fine on 24fps input. Having the panel run at 120Hz and doing that just makes good sense. Wether you enable any motion enhancement on top of it is your choice of course.

The new 120Hz playback on the 2018 is for playing a video file on USB (or streaming) that is natively recorded at 120fps. The 2017 and older can't do that, they can only play 60fps or lower video files (and streaming). The B8 apparently will be limited to either playing 4k 120fps or 4k HDR 60fps (or lower), it won't do 4k with HDR and 120fps at the same time.
Thanks for the explanation.

If 24fps 5:5 pulldown is already handled fine by 2016 and 2017 OLEDs, it's hard to see this as anything more than specsmanship.

Are rhere are game consoles that output 120 fps via usb???
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post #204 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 07:04 PM
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LG OLED TVs at CES 2018

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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Thanks for the explanation.



If 24fps 5:5 pulldown is already handled fine by 2016 and 2017 OLEDs, it's hard to see this as anything more than specsmanship.



Are rhere are game consoles that output 120 fps via usb???


Wouldn’t matter. The 2018 lg tvs don’t support hdmi 2.1 so they can’t have 120 FPS over any hdmi port on the new 2018 lg TVs . 2018 lg TVs are already outdated before they even get released ... oops just saw u said usb


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post #205 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 07:13 PM
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LG OLED TVs at CES 2018

For the next couple years at least until 2019 there will be no reason to upgrade your tv if it’s from 2016/17 . I would wait until micro led actually become a thing or Oleds can hit 1000 nits in their most accurate mode


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post #206 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 08:14 PM
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The only source of 120 FPS content right now is PC gaming. But without the HDMI port to support it, the HFR feature will be completely useless till the 2019 models implement the HDMI 2.1 ports with increased bandwidth.
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post #207 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So its safe to assume Sony's A1E won't be that much different either. Happy i bought the TCL P as low investment into 4K HDR. I can save up for a major upgrade in 2019.
I’m quite happy with my TCL P series. Amazing really for the price. There’s something to be said for living within my means and not having to keep buying tickets to board the upgrade train.
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post #208 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 09:00 PM
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Thanks for the explanation.

If 24fps 5:5 pulldown is already handled fine by 2016 and 2017 OLEDs, it's hard to see this as anything more than specsmanship.

Are rhere are game consoles that output 120 fps via usb???
No they output via HDMI only. USB is only for storing video files for playing. Nothing else. So this really is not an interesting feature unless some streaming service starts offering 120fps content, which seems unlikely.

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post #209 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Joce View Post
But if UHD BD's are encoded in 24 fps, is there an interest to have 120hz ? Will there be a visual difference using a higher refresh rates higher than 60hz for these 24 ips videos ? (In the case if my equipment is full HDMI 2.1).
Good TVs like the LG change their refresh rate to 24Hz to match the source. 120Hz will have no benefit for 24Hz source materials.
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post #210 of 1163 Old 01-04-2018, 09:29 PM
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Good TVs like the LG change their refresh rate to 24Hz to match the source. 120Hz will have no benefit for 24Hz source materials.
Actually all the current OLEDs always run at 120Hz. They apply 5:5 pull down on the 24Hz input to display each frame 5 times and hence get 120Hz that the panel runs at. If the input is 60Hz but the content was 24Hz, then they can detect that and undo the 3:2 pull down and then apply 5:5 to run it correctly again.
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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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