Status of Dolby Vision raised blacks issue on OLEDS - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1258 Old 01-11-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
No where in the article does it state that 2017 Oled would be fixed and 2016 models would not. The DV elevated black issue is prevalent on every DV UHD bluray title on the market in low light level scenes. I own 11 titles and is can be seen on every one as the letterbox bars lose absolute black which should never happen on an Oled. I actually believe in good faith LG will fix the issue with DV titles because as it stands it is unacceptable. HDR10 was ready for the masses. DV clearly was not ready for prime time and still isn't to this day. When this fix comes that will change.
HDR10 in all honesty wasn't "ready" either since no OLED can deliver the highlights and thus we see clipping (which happens to a smaller extent on LCDs). I guess it depends on your definition of ready.
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post #32 of 1258 Old 01-12-2018, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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From Blu-ray.com...

Quote:
I called LG today & they had no idea what I was talking about as far as a Dolby Vision update to fix the elevated black levels.

I talked to Signature Customer service. They stated they had no phone calls on elevated blacks on Dolby Vision titles. I couldn’t believe that.

I asked if they could send a note over to their engineers to ask about the update & they said no. Really hard to believe how that phone call went.


Just as expected, or people start calling, or they wont do anything
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post #33 of 1258 Old 01-12-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 256k View Post
From Blu-ray.com..



Just as expected, or people start calling, or they wont do anything
Someone just posted in another thread they got an email from LG UK saying the 2016 and up TV's would be updated with the DV firmware fix. The news of Dolby's issue is spread across multiple posts in this and other forums, and we'll probably see a few more chime in with their contact experience.
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post #34 of 1258 Old 01-12-2018, 07:38 AM
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Dolby confirmed the problem with LG displays only when they could announce a fix.

That means it is on the way. I am not too worried but sooner would be better.

You really cannot rely on tech support, they can be the last to know.

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post #35 of 1258 Old 01-12-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Dolby confirmed the problem with LG displays only when they could announce a fix.

That means it is on the way. I am not too worried but sooner would be better.

You really cannot rely on tech support, they can be the last to know.

- Rich
I agree. Tech support is the same group that said to me that they never heard of the yellow streak, or the banding on the 9500 OLEDs, yet many people, including myself had gone through multiple exchanges through LG for those issues.

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post #36 of 1258 Old 01-13-2018, 03:03 PM
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I was on my way to buy an Apple TV 4K in order to initiate my journey on DV (Oled 2016 owner).

Not until this weird issue is fixed.
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post #37 of 1258 Old 01-13-2018, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eva2016 View Post
I was on my way to buy an Apple TV 4K in order to initiate my journey on DV (Oled 2016 owner).

Not until this weird issue is fixed.
start buying the offers already, you'll have time to enjoy them later
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post #38 of 1258 Old 01-13-2018, 04:48 PM
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start buying the offers already, you'll have time to enjoy them later
Not going to take that risk.

With LG already introducing the 2018 lineup, they could very well leave the 2016 lineup behind.

I will only believe when i see it.

In the meantime maybe Apple fixes its lack of lossless audio passthrough, who knows.
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post #39 of 1258 Old 01-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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I am seeing a similar Dolby Vision bug in the new UHD of IT where the entire screen goes grey. The best example is at 2h4m, just before the beginning of Chapter 13, where the screen fades to black, the title 'September' appears and then the final scene starts. Except in my case, the fade to black is a hideous grey.

My config is 2017 LG OLED with current frmware, Oppo 203 with current firmware.
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post #40 of 1258 Old 01-14-2018, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by analog8 View Post
I am seeing a similar Dolby Vision bug in the new UHD of IT where the entire screen goes grey. The best example is at 2h4m, just before the beginning of Chapter 13, where the screen fades to black, the title 'September' appears and then the final scene starts. Except in my case, the fade to black is a hideous grey.

My config is 2017 LG OLED with current frmware, Oppo 203 with current firmware.
LG is slow as hell, even if it's Dolby the ones that have done ALL THE HARD WORK on the FIX, they'll take like 1 or 2 months to fix the issue and that for 2017.... 2016 users may be waiting more, or maybe we never recieve the update... I don't trust in LG anymore, will NEVER buy a LG TV again, the customer service and support has been the worst

I keep watching this...
(2016)
https://www.lgservice.co.kr/search/driverSoftTotalSearchPage.do?oldKeyWord=&type=3&me nuId=&searchKeyWord=OLED55E6K&oneCateCode=1005&two CateCode=D002795&currentPageNo=

(2017)
https://www.lgservice.co.kr/search/d...teCode=D002795

To see if they roll a update...

Last edited by 256k; 01-14-2018 at 09:50 AM.
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post #41 of 1258 Old 01-14-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 256k View Post
LG is slow as hell, even if it's Dolby the ones that have done ALL THE HARD WORK on the FIX, they'll take like 1 or 2 months to fix the issue and that for 2017.... 2016 users may be waiting more, or maybe we never recieve the update... I don't trust in LG anymore, will NEVER buy a LG TV again, the customer service and support has been the worst

I keep watching this...
(2016)
https://www.lgservice.co.kr/search/driverSoftTotalSearchPage.do?oldKeyWord=&type=3&me nuId=&searchKeyWord=OLED55E6K&oneCateCode=1005&two CateCode=D002795&currentPageNo=

(2017)
https://www.lgservice.co.kr/search/d...teCode=D002795

To see if they roll a update...
It´s my 1st OLED, so let´s see how they do...not getting my hopes up, certainly.

Thanks for the links, i´ll keep an eye on the 2016 firmware.
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post #42 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256k View Post
LG is slow as hell, even if it's Dolby the ones that have done ALL THE HARD WORK on the FIX, they'll take like 1 or 2 months to fix the issue and that for 2017.... 2016 users may be waiting more, or maybe we never recieve the update... I don't trust in LG anymore, will NEVER buy a LG TV again, the customer service and support has been the worst
I don't think LG has been too bad, they do issue firmware updates on a somewhat regular basis. I can't imagine they will ignore this issue. I suspect LG's licensing agreement with Dolby would require them to correct problems like this, because they are damaging to the Dolby brand. At least Dolby stepped up and owned the issue.

Remember, every firmware update carries the risk of bricking devices (either due to sw issues not detected in testing or user error during the install). That's why any vendor tries to minimize how often they put updates out. Last year Samsung bricked hundreds of TV's with a faulty update. Those type of issues cost vendors a ton and also open the door to lawsuits etc.

These DV issues are subtle and complex. Plenty of people watching the same disc on the same TV with the same Oppo don't see anything. If it takes a month or two to fix it and test it, so be it.
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post #43 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by analog8 View Post
I don't think LG has been too bad, they do issue firmware updates on a somewhat regular basis. I can't imagine they will ignore this issue. I suspect LG's licensing agreement with Dolby would require them to correct problems like this, because they are damaging to the Dolby brand. At least Dolby stepped up and owned the issue.

Remember, every firmware update carries the risk of bricking devices (either due to sw issues not detected in testing or user error during the install). That's why any vendor tries to minimize how often they put updates out. Last year Samsung bricked hundreds of TV's with a faulty update. Those type of issues cost vendors a ton and also open the door to lawsuits etc.

These DV issues are subtle and complex. Plenty of people watching the same disc on the same TV with the same Oppo don't see anything. If it takes a month or two to fix it and test it, so be it.
LG may be reluctant after what they did to HDR game mode on the 2016 tv's with the last update. A lot a people are upset at how dark it made HDR game mode, and now they are forced to set dynamic contrast to high. Then there is the issue with the last update to the B6 that ruined the perfect blacks on some tv's and there is a glow even with a brightness set at zero. They may be gun shy about sending out any more updates for the 2016 models.

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post #44 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by analog8 View Post
These DV issues are subtle and complex. Plenty of people watching the same disc on the same TV with the same Oppo don't see anything. If it takes a month or two to fix it and test it, so be it.
I don't find them subtle and certainly not complex to observe. There were limited disks and players that was until the ATV4K shipped. That changed everything. Apple went in big for DV and I am sure started to push for a fix.


This is a pretty big bug for a technology that is all about image quality.


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post #45 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I don't find them subtle and certainly not complex to observe. There were limited disks and players that was until the ATV4K shipped. That changed everything. Apple went in big for DV and I am sure started to push for a fix.


This is a pretty big bug for a technology that is all about image quality.


- Rich
I agree with you, it is too big of an issue just to be ignored.

I understand LG wants to be careful, but at the end of the day this is firmware update to fix just one single issue for which the solution has been already provided, there´s nothing else they have to "update".
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post #46 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Eva2016 View Post
I agree with you, it is too big of an issue just to be ignored.

I understand LG wants to be careful, but at the end of the day this is firmware update to fix just one single issue for which the solution has been already provided, there´s nothing else they have to "update".
When did Dolby supply the fixed code to LG? It sounds like it was fairly recent based on the Forbes article.

Integrating third party code, and then running a full test suite and regression on all of the 2016 and 2017 LG OLED models, with all of the their variations in regional firmware, different apps etc is a lot of work. After QA signs off, LG probably push the firmware out to an alpha group first, and wait for reports, then to a beta group, and more waiting. Finally, we get it!

Not to mention, it's quite possible the Dolby fix is stuck in the queue behind some other important LG releases, like the firmware for the 2018 models, which is probably on a tight timeframe tied to LG's manufacturing plant and can't easily be changed without costing them millions. I doubt LG has excess capacity in their software development teams.

Also, it's never just 'one single issue'. At a previous gig, we received an urgent security patch to a critical piece of third party software. Unfortunately, the patch was bundled with a entirely new version of the Mono runtime that introduced numerous changes across our software environment. It took us months of engineering and testing to make that change without breaking anything, just for 'one single issue'.
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post #47 of 1258 Old 01-15-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by analog8 View Post
When did Dolby supply the fixed code to LG? It sounds like it was fairly recent based on the Forbes article.

Integrating third party code, and then running a full test suite and regression on all of the 2016 and 2017 LG OLED models, with all of the their variations in regional firmware, different apps etc is a lot of work. After QA signs off, LG probably push the firmware out to an alpha group first, and wait for reports, then to a beta group, and more waiting. Finally, we get it!

Not to mention, it's quite possible the Dolby fix is stuck in the queue behind some other important LG releases, like the firmware for the 2018 models, which is probably on a tight timeframe tied to LG's manufacturing plant and can't easily be changed without costing them millions. I doubt LG has excess capacity in their software development teams.

Also, it's never just 'one single issue'. At a previous gig, we received an urgent security patch to a critical piece of third party software. Unfortunately, the patch was bundled with a entirely new version of the Mono runtime that introduced numerous changes across our software environment. It took us months of engineering and testing to make that change without breaking anything, just for 'one single issue'.
The 2018 models have yet to hit the market, so they have time to tweak that FW before release. The 2017 models are still being sold and will be through at least mid summer, so most likely that model will get top priority with the fix, since those are the only models LG is currently selling. The 2016 models will likely have the lowest priority, probably not seeing a fix for months.

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post #48 of 1258 Old 01-16-2018, 08:56 PM
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According this the following post, Robert Zohn is saying the DV update has to be done on both the tv and HDMI source devices.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post55511526

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post #49 of 1258 Old 01-16-2018, 11:51 PM
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I'm glad somebody finally debugged it after almost 2 years. I guess Dolby was racing to answer half-baked HDR10. Bleh.
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post #50 of 1258 Old 01-17-2018, 04:52 AM
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My position on this situation is if LG wanted to be the market leader and have the majority of the market share on OLED consumer tech as well as the first to come to market with DV to give them that position they need to take the good with the bad and fix problems whether it is just their tv or UHD player or what not. Lets be honest when it comes to electronics the majority of the time the first to market is one who makes the money and 9 out of 10 times things are released to gain that position before they should be. LG needs to fix DV issues with all of their tv's that is the bottom line. We are not talking about $500 tv sets we are talking about tv sets that are $2500 - $20,000. What makes matters worse is that Dolby released a fix and LG needs to implement it, the ball is in LG's court. I believe most of us have agreed that LG has not been the best at dealing firmware aka HDR GAME MODE. I feel LG gives it one try and if they can't fix it they say tough luck live with it we did what we can. i bought my E6 for Dolby vision, if DV is not correct I am going to be pissed.
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post #51 of 1258 Old 01-17-2018, 06:41 AM
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I personally don?t think we should give up on the dim HDR GAME mode.

I personally started the petition to get an hdr game mode created in the first place and I think if we make one collective movement and I reach back out to Forbes and others that picked it up earlier, we can still make a change.

My proposal is to keep existing mode where the remapped the tone mapping, etc.

Then we get a 2nd hdr game mode which is back to original tone mapping and brightness.
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post #52 of 1258 Old 01-17-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog8 View Post
I don't think LG has been too bad, they do issue firmware updates on a somewhat regular basis. I can't imagine they will ignore this issue. I suspect LG's licensing agreement with Dolby would require them to correct problems like this, because they are damaging to the Dolby brand. At least Dolby stepped up and owned the issue.

Remember, every firmware update carries the risk of bricking devices (either due to sw issues not detected in testing or user error during the install). That's why any vendor tries to minimize how often they put updates out. Last year Samsung bricked hundreds of TV's with a faulty update. Those type of issues cost vendors a ton and also open the door to lawsuits etc.

These DV issues are subtle and complex. Plenty of people watching the same disc on the same TV with the same Oppo don't see anything. If it takes a month or two to fix it and test it, so be it.
I don't think they'll ignore it too long if the grey reveals vignetting in too many sets.
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post #53 of 1258 Old 01-17-2018, 03:53 PM
 
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I use Brightness 62 with my DV streaming and discs on my LG 7s and extremely happy with the performance of Dolby Vision. No rule or law says Dolby Vision black levels are supposed to be fixed at 50... once I raised blacks of the OLED capability, for me, for DV was the proper adjustment.
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post #54 of 1258 Old 01-17-2018, 07:02 PM
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I don't think they'll ignore it too long if the grey reveals vignetting in too many sets.
Exactly. It's the only time I notice imperfections in the OLED!
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post #55 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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post #56 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
My position on this situation is if LG wanted to be the market leader and have the majority of the market share on OLED consumer tech as well as the first to come to market with DV to give them that position they need to take the good with the bad and fix problems whether it is just their tv or UHD player or what not. Lets be honest when it comes to electronics the majority of the time the first to market is one who makes the money and 9 out of 10 times things are released to gain that position before they should be. LG needs to fix DV issues with all of their tv's that is the bottom line. We are not talking about $500 tv sets we are talking about tv sets that are $2500 - $20,000. What makes matters worse is that Dolby released a fix and LG needs to implement it, the ball is in LG's court. I believe most of us have agreed that LG has not been the best at dealing firmware aka HDR GAME MODE. I feel LG gives it one try and if they can't fix it they say tough luck live with it we did what we can. i bought my E6 for Dolby vision, if DV is not correct I am going to be pissed.
Same here with a C7. This bug renders DV unusable when used with HDMI.
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post #57 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 06:42 AM
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Great news, thank you for posting and keeping us updated with the DV issues and your findings.

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post #58 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 12:59 PM
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John Archer is also treating hearsay (or, at best, a mistranslation) from a Twitter user as proof that LG hadn't intended to offer anymore firmware releases? No comment.
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post #59 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
John Archer is also treating hearsay (or, at best, a mistranslation) from a Twitter user as proof that LG hadn't intended to offer anymore firmware releases? No comment.
i would feel confident they weren't doing any more 2016 updates until this came up.
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post #60 of 1258 Old 01-18-2018, 03:19 PM
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Look for initial FW update on the Korean site. Seems like LG likes to use it's own people as test subjects.

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