Status of Dolby Vision raised blacks issue on OLEDS - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 1600 Old 05-21-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
That’s weird. The 2016 models all have a dedicated Dolby Vision chip for processing inside. Player-led on the Oppo 203 was working perfectly fine on my B6. Most of the time green and purple indicate that there could be a HDMI cable issue. Are they certified cables?

Mind you, the Dolby vision profile Apple use now was developed especially with Sony OLED tv’s in mind after a firmware update as a band aid. It was a messy year for Sony since no HDMI DV sources were compatible with the tv-led profile. Before the firmware update Apple used the processing in the tv if I recall.
You B6 must be unique, because the 2016 OLED's could not do player-led properly with the OPPO 203 because it is a Sony low latency profile. I have premium certified cables. This is what it looks like with player led. Yes, the 2016 LG's have the DV chip inside, that's why you set the OPPO to TV-Led.
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post #1472 of 1600 Old 05-21-2020, 03:53 PM
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if Apple TV detects a TV that supports both player-led and tv-led profiles it must prefer the player-led, or maybe the TV needs to send a signal to prefer tv-led?
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post #1473 of 1600 Old 05-21-2020, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
if Apple TV detects a TV that supports both player-led and tv-led profiles it must prefer the player-led, or maybe the TV needs to send a signal to prefer tv-led?
That doesn't explain why tvs such as the 2016 OLED's have elevated blacks with DV since they can only do TV-LED. So it can't be the profile Apple is using, but the hardware in ATV4K instead.
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post #1474 of 1600 Old 05-21-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
That doesn't explain why tvs such as the 2016 OLED's have elevated blacks with DV since they can only do TV-LED. So it can't be the profile Apple is using, but the hardware in ATV4K instead.
could be multiple issues
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post #1475 of 1600 Old 05-22-2020, 01:22 AM
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Ok I don't knw why haven't thought of this before smh but I tried the same Netflix content on my Panny ub820 dolby vision cinema default 50 brightness and the 2 shows which I really saw this was ozark latest season episode 1 and the Witcher both during the beginning of the episodes. ozark has got some strange Pixelated stuff happening on the internal app and on the panny player. Its like a checkerboard of lines or something so that leads me to believe its the show itself and the Witcher well it was jet black on the panny at default 50 but 2 percent gray like on the internal app so that makes me think it's something wrong wit the Netflix internal app on the lg cx
I replied to you post in the CX thread about the raised black bars and couldn't really see anything but when I tested at night despite not seeing the weird effect in the black bars like you posted I could certainly see that the bars were grey and the also the content had raised blacks as well, extremely noticeable at the very start of Ozark and during the Ozark intro logo about 2 minutes in on season 3 episode 3. Have not tried any other content yet.

As you described, it was like checkerboard of lines on a grey background, looked awful.

This was on Apple TV 4K box and the Internal Netflix app.

I presume its the content thats screwed up here?, never been impressed with Ozark DV picture quality.

Do you have any other content I can test, I'm trying to figure out DV raised blacks in general on the CX and DV raised blacks on just the Apple TV 4k box.

Thanks
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post #1476 of 1600 Old 05-22-2020, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Ok, so I now know how Apple can fix this:

Apple is using Dolby Vision profile 5, which means that the processing is done in the Apple TV 4K itself. The LG OLEDS work perfect when the processing is done in the tv (because of the dedicated DV chips inside them), that's why Dolby Vision content on discs and in the internal tv apps are perfect. Much brighter image and free of elevated black levels. Apple should give the users this option in tvOS, just like users can do on their Oppo 203 bluray players. This would fix this problem once and for all and to me it seems a simple fix.

I've presented this solution to Apple, let's hope that they take note. It's been taking too long now.
On my LG OLED C9, there are no raised blacks from my Oppo UDP-203 whether it is selected to TV Led or Player Led for DV processing (just tested with a reference Dolby Vision 0% pattern). Unfortunately this issue between the AppleTV 4K and the LG OLEDs is not so simple. I wish it were. Still, it would be nice to have the option between TV Led and Player Led processing in tvOS as you suggest.
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post #1477 of 1600 Old 05-23-2020, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gunner842 View Post
I replied to you post in the CX thread about the raised black bars and couldn't really see anything but when I tested at night despite not seeing the weird effect in the black bars like you posted I could certainly see that the bars were grey and the also the content had raised blacks as well, extremely noticeable at the very start of Ozark and during the Ozark intro logo about 2 minutes in on season 3 episode 3. Have not tried any other content yet.



As you described, it was like checkerboard of lines on a grey background, looked awful.



This was on Apple TV 4K box and the Internal Netflix app.



I presume its the content thats screwed up here?, never been impressed with Ozark DV picture quality.



Do you have any other content I can test, I'm trying to figure out DV raised blacks in general on the CX and DV raised blacks on just the Apple TV 4k box.



Thanks
I use the black scenes at the beginning of Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and You to test black with DV.

With the internal app on Sabrina, right after the cartoon intro it always cuts to black before the episode starts. I pause it, press back so only the screen menu goes away and it should be pitch black like the tv is off if you are in darkness. Same with other cuts to black on You.

This is completely black for me now that I am using just service menu white balance. There has been a glow ever since fall of last year when calibrating with 1D & 3D Lut.


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post #1478 of 1600 Old 05-23-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
On my LG OLED C9, there are no raised blacks from my Oppo UDP-203 whether it is selected to TV Led or Player Led for DV processing (just tested with a reference Dolby Vision 0% pattern). Unfortunately this issue between the AppleTV 4K and the LG OLEDs is not so simple. I wish it were. Still, it would be nice to have the option between TV Led and Player Led processing in tvOS as you suggest.
I thought I had some raised blacks from my oppo203 but could have been the content, mind me asking what video settings you use on the 203.

I’m using source direct with all other settings auto, apart from tv led for DV.
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post #1479 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Ok, so I now know how Apple can fix this:

Apple is using Dolby Vision profile 5, which means that the processing is done in the Apple TV 4K itself. The LG OLEDS work perfect when the processing is done in the tv (because of the dedicated DV chips inside them), that's why Dolby Vision content on discs and in the internal tv apps are perfect. Much brighter image and free of elevated black levels. Apple should give the users this option in tvOS, just like users can do on their Oppo 203 bluray players. This would fix this problem once and for all and to me it seems a simple fix.

I've presented this solution to Apple, let's hope that they take note. It's been taking too long now.
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I use the black scenes at the beginning of Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and You to test black with DV.

With the internal app on Sabrina, right after the cartoon intro it always cuts to black before the episode starts. I pause it, press back so only the screen menu goes away and it should be pitch black like the tv is off if you are in darkness. Same with other cuts to black on You.

This is completely black for me now that I am using just service menu white balance. There has been a glow ever since fall of last year when calibrating with 1D & 3D Lut.


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Ok so tested internal Netflix app on cx and I get raised black on the Sabrina fade to black screen you mentioned above, So from my findings so far, DV raised blacks don’t just occur on the Apple 4K tv.

@IMWhizzle have you tried this particular content mentioned above on the internal Netflix app?
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post #1480 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gunner842 View Post
I thought I had some raised blacks from my oppo203 but could have been the content, mind me asking what video settings you use on the 203.

I’m using source direct with all other settings auto, apart from tv led for DV.
I'm using Auto for everything (the Oppo performing any scaling to 4K), with TV Led for DV. I should specify that any raised black due to using a custom 1D LUT (CalMAN AutoCal) remain. I switched to an uncalibrated picture mode on the C9 to check for raised blacks.
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post #1481 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 03:29 AM
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I'm using Auto for everything (the Oppo performing any scaling to 4K), with TV Led for DV. I should specify that any raised black due to using a custom 1D LUT (CalMAN AutoCal) remain. I switched to an uncalibrated picture mode on the C9 to check for raised blacks.

Thanks, don't really understand the last part, are you saying uncalibrated picture mode raised blacks are still a problem be it from internal source on TV or external device such as oppo203/apple tv 4k.

I hope LG fix this once and for all.
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post #1482 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gunner842 View Post
Thanks, don't really understand the last part, are you saying uncalibrated picture mode raised blacks are still a problem be it from internal source on TV or external device such as oppo203/apple tv 4k.

I hope LG fix this once and for all.
I'm saying that there has been an ongoing issue with raised blacks that occur as a result of the calibration process used by CalMAN and possibly some other calibration software, and that seems to be unrelated to the raised blacks that occur on Dolby Vision with the Apple TV 4K. Other that with the Apple TV 4K there are no raised blacks with uncalibrated picture modes that I'm aware of.
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post #1483 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 04:24 AM
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I'm saying that there has been an ongoing issue with raised blacks that occur as a result of the calibration process used by CalMAN and possibly some other calibration software, and that seems to be unrelated to the raised blacks that occur on Dolby Vision with the Apple TV 4K. Other that with the Apple TV 4K there are no raised blacks with uncalibrated picture modes that I'm aware of.
Ok well I haven't had my TV calibrated and I get raised blacks in DV with the above content (sabrina) that was mentioned on the internal netflix app when it fades to black after the intro.

Maybe it's the content though, do you know any content I could try via internal netflix app or a DV UHD that you know of that does not cause raised black's.

I'm just trying to rule out things, its such a minefield with DV.

Thank you
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post #1484 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 04:42 AM
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Ok well I haven't had my TV calibrated and I get raised blacks in DV with the above content (sabrina) that was mentioned on the internal netflix app when it fades to black after the intro.

Maybe it's the content though, do you know any content I could try via internal netflix app or a DV UHD that you know of that does not cause raised black's.

I'm just trying to rule out things, its such a minefield with DV.
Yes, unfortunately it is. I haven't used the internal Netflix app at all, and I don't know of anyway to verify that any program black through it is truly encoded to be black. I've been using Ryan Masciola's Diversified Video Solutions Dolby Vision patterns on a USB drive as a reference for testing this. It has a 0% black window reference pattern in Dolby Vision, which I can use directly on the C9, or through the Oppo UDP-203. For the AppleTV 4K, I can only verify the raised black from the physical unit, because it is absent when using the built in app on the C9.
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post #1485 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 04:55 AM
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Yes, unfortunately it is. I haven't used the internal Netflix app at all, and I don't know of anyway to verify that any program black through it is truly encoded to be black. I've been using Ryan Masciola's Diversified Video Solutions Dolby Vision patterns on a USB drive as a reference for testing this. It has a 0% black window reference pattern in Dolby Vision, which I can use directly on the C9, or through the Oppo UDP-203. For the AppleTV 4K, I can only verify the raised black from the physical unit, because it is absent when using the built in app on the C9.
What do you mean by this, are talking about the apple tv app on the TV.

Do you have link to these test patterns please?

edit/no worries, found the site, just seen I would need to purchase.

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post #1486 of 1600 Old 05-24-2020, 02:06 PM
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What do you mean by this, are talking about the apple tv app on the TV.
I'm talking about comparing the two. If I only see a raised black on the physical AppleTV then I don't know if its because there is a problem, or if the black just wasn't encoded to be full black (problem in the source content rather than the device). But if I compare the same black between the physical AppleTV and the Apple TV app on the TV and find them different, then I know one of them is wrong (in the device, not the content).

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Do you have link to these test patterns please?

edit/no worries, found the site, just seen I would need to purchase.
Yes, diversifiedvideosolutions.com. You'd want one of the products/bundles that includes Dolby Vision. Yes, they are for purchase. They're the only evaluation patterns available for Dolby Vision that I'm currently aware of. Spears & Munsil are working on an update to their UHD HDR Benchmark which will include Dolby Vision evaluation patterns.
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post #1487 of 1600 Old 06-03-2020, 11:20 AM
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**Upon further testing and at night with all the lights off there are still raised blacks**


I just installed 13.4.8 beta.......and it appears to be fixed, I verified multiple times my brightness is at 50 and I no longer see raised blacks. Can anyone else verify? It appears my picture mode was set to Cinema and not Cinema Home. Looks like Cinema does not produce raised blacks.

Last edited by jukens; 06-03-2020 at 06:14 PM.
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post #1488 of 1600 Old 06-03-2020, 11:23 AM
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I just installed 13.4.8 beta.......and it appears to be fixed, I verified multiple times my brightness is at 50 and I no longer see raised blacks. Can anyone else verify?
What tv do u have?

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post #1489 of 1600 Old 06-03-2020, 11:27 AM
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what tv do u have?

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I edited my post, my Picture is set to Cinema mode, it still produces raised blacks on Cinema Home mode.
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post #1490 of 1600 Old 06-03-2020, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jukens View Post
55C9

I edited my post, my Picture is set to Cinema mode, it still produces raised blacks on Cinema Home mode.

Is the beta firmware for the Apple TV? How do you get it? Can you downgrade if there are problems?


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Is the beta firmware for the Apple TV? How do you get it? Can you downgrade if there are problems?


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It is beta, no downgrade possible. Are you testing with Picture set to Dolby Cinema and not Dolby Cinema Home?
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It is beta, no downgrade possible. Are you testing with Picture set to Dolby Cinema and not Dolby Cinema Home?
I have tried with both but won't be using a beta firmware. Hopefully the real one comes out soon.

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post #1493 of 1600 Old 06-04-2020, 08:07 PM
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I have the latest ATV4k beta update and I still have raised blacks with Dolby vision cinema mode set at 50 brightness.

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post #1494 of 1600 Old 06-06-2020, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jukens View Post
**Upon further testing and at night with all the lights off there are still raised blacks**


I just installed 13.4.8 beta.......and it appears to be fixed, I verified multiple times my brightness is at 50 and I no longer see raised blacks. Can anyone else verify? It appears my picture mode was set to Cinema and not Cinema Home. Looks like Cinema does not produce raised blacks.
For me 13.4.6 seems to have removed the extreme raised blacks when using the CalMAN AutoCaled Cinema picture mode (LG C9). The very slightly raised blacks that seem to always be present with Dolby Vision from any source after calibration (installation of a custom Dolby Vision Configuration File) do seem to remain present. However in uncalibrated Game picture mode, the extreme raised black from the AppleTV 4k remains present.

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post #1495 of 1600 Old 06-11-2020, 11:17 PM
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Sadly, I can confirm that on the C9, with the latest firmware 4.80.03, the Dolby Vision via Apple TV 4K box (firmware 13.4.6) still has raised blacks.
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post #1496 of 1600 Old 06-12-2020, 07:27 PM
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Watching Artemis Fowl on Disney+ I get raised blacks on the letterbars at around 11:44 into the movie on Apple TV vs the internal app on my C7.

Edit: also at 23:21. Very noticeable in dark scenes.

Last edited by Bacon_67; 06-12-2020 at 07:39 PM.
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post #1497 of 1600 Old 06-13-2020, 01:34 AM
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Watching Artemis Fowl on Disney+ I get raised blacks on the letterbars at around 11:44 into the movie on Apple TV vs the internal app on my C7.

Edit: also at 23:21. Very noticeable in dark scenes.
There is no way this Apple box is working fine with DV and LGs Oled
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post #1498 of 1600 Old 06-13-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Fraracci View Post
There is no way this Apple box is working fine with DV and LGs Oled
It isn't. Same issue on my E6.
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post #1499 of 1600 Old 06-13-2020, 08:53 PM
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There is no way this Apple box is working fine with DV and LGs Oled
Yeah, tested the same scene on the Shield and it appears to be fine.
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post #1500 of 1600 Old 06-13-2020, 10:17 PM
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How DoVi looking with the internal app?


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