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-   -   Status of Dolby Vision raised blacks issue on OLEDS (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2947164-status-dolby-vision-raised-blacks-issue-oleds.html)

256k 01-04-2018 10:25 AM

Status of Dolby Vision raised blacks issue on OLEDS [CAUSE FOUND!]
 
UPDATE:
A fix is on the way, the problem was in how Dolby Vision treated the HDMI source, causing raised blacks because there was no HDMI players back then when DV was done

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#50bfaa562fa6

---------------

Have some news about DV problem with LG OLEDS 16/17

Been in contact with Dolby UK and Spain, told them about the issue, they told me they will contact me when they have some info

The problem is not on the movies, it is on the DV API or the DV Chipset itself (Firmware), since AppleTV 4K movies have the same problem that with the OPPO and UP970 player, the blackbars become grey

The important thing is that Apple does not encode the black bars on their movie files, to save a few GB, yet in movies like Interstellar or Harry potter saga, the grey bars attack again in some scenes, it is really noticeable that the black levels raise on Interstellar credits, the screen becomes totally grey, and lower the brightness is not a fix, is kill the entire shadow detail since the movies works perfect in most of the scenes, except when they raise in a few scenes

Forbes has made an article about this issue too: Something Weird Is Going On With Dolby Vision On The Apple TV 4K

So please, here you have the phone numbers from DOLBY UK and US to tell them about the issue, hopefully the more feedback they have, the more faster they'll act

UK 207-406-3200/1793-842-100
USA 415-558-0200/415-558-0200/415-715-2500

Also please, make sure of open tickets on LG customer service, to try to fix this issue that affects both 2016/17 OLED TV's and probably will in 2018 too https://www.avforums.com/styles/defa...foro/clear.png

Since Sony still has not released their firmware we don't know if this happen only in LG, so if it happens in LG is a Dolby Vision Chipset problem (Firmware), if it happens in LG and Sony, it could be more like a problem with the DV API (Software from the players) itself rather than Firmware issue on DV Chipset

PS: Don't lower the brightness, even if those black bars are annoying as hell, they only appears in few scenes for now, but lowering the brightness crushes totally the image quality, until we get this adressed, we have to deal with it

The correct picture mode is DV Cinema (2017) and DV Dark Movie (2016), the brighter modes induces to changes in the light and kills shadow detail and image pop in brighter scenes https://www.avforums.com/styles/defa...foro/clear.png

wxman 01-04-2018 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55431724)
Have some news about DV problem with LG OLEDS 16/17

Been in contact with Dolby UK and Spain, told them about the issue, they told me they will contact me when they have some info

The problem is not on the movies, it is on the DV API or the DV Chipset itself (Firmware), since AppleTV 4K movies have the same problem that with the OPPO and UP970 player, the blackbars become grey

The important thing is that Apple does not encode the black bars on their movie files, to save a few GB, yet in movies like Interstellar or Harry potter saga, the grey bars attack again in some scenes, it is really noticeable that the black levels raise on Interstellar credits, the screen becomes totally grey, and lower the brightness is not a fix, is kill the entire shadow detail since the movies works perfect in most of the scenes, except when they raise in a few scenes

Forbes has made an article about this issue too: Something Weird Is Going On With Dolby Vision On The Apple TV 4K

So please, here you have the phone numbers from DOLBY UK and US to tell them about the issue, hopefully the more feedback they have, the more faster they'll act

UK 207-406-3200/1793-842-100
USA 415-558-0200/415-558-0200/415-715-2500

Also please, make sure of open tickets on LG customer service, to try to fix this issue that affects both 2016/17 OLED TV's and probably will in 2018 too https://www.avforums.com/styles/defa...foro/clear.png

Since Sony still has not released their firmware we don't know if this happen only in LG, so if it happens in LG is a Dolby Vision Chipset problem (Firmware), if it happens in LG and Sony, it could be more like a problem with the DV API (Software from the players) itself rather than Firmware issue on DV Chipset

PS: Don't lower the brightness, even if those black bars are annoying as hell, they only appears in few scenes for now, but lowering the brightness crushes totally the image quality, until we get this adressed, we have to deal with it

The correct picture mode is DV Cinema (2017) and DV Dark Movie (2016), the brighter modes induces to changes in the light and kills shadow detail and image pop in brighter scenes https://www.avforums.com/styles/defa...foro/clear.png

Thanks for the info. I have read where the Vizio's that can do DV also have issues with elevated black bars with DV movies.

RichB 01-04-2018 03:10 PM

Elevated blacks occur DV disks played on the Oppo and using the Netflix on Apple TV 4K playing Stranger Things 2.
There is no problem playing Stranger Things 2 using the LG native app.

The sources are different but the ATV4K and disks both transmit DV over HDMI.

Hopefully, there is a firmware fix soon.

- Rich

256k 01-04-2018 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB (Post 55433702)
Elevated blacks occur DV disks played on the Oppo and using the Netflix on Apple TV 4K playing Stranger Things 2.
There is no problem playing Stranger Things 2 using the LG native app.

The sources are different but the ATV4K and disks both transmit DV over HDMI.

Hopefully, there is a firmware fix soon.

- Rich

Well, it could be an issue with the API, since Netflix at first had those elevated black levels, now people says that they're gone, so... If it's true, it could be the API, which could explain why all player DV Firmwares have been delayed, including UP970, which was supposed to have it on summer!

Anyway guys, if you call to those phones and give feedback, maybe we can get this fixed soon

Couch Viking 01-05-2018 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55434074)
Well, it could be an issue with the API, since Netflix at first had those elevated black levels, now people says that they're gone, so... If it's true, it could be the API, which could explain why all player DV Firmwares have been delayed, including UP970, which was supposed to have it on summer!

Anyway guys, if you call to those phones and give feedback, maybe we can get this fixed soon

I don't think the issues on Netflix are gone. Watched Godless in Dolby Vision on Netflix on the ATV4K and an LG C7 and some of the dark scenes the blacks were noticeably elevated, including the black bars. They just went grey. This was a week ago.

RichB 01-05-2018 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch Viking (Post 55438838)
I don't think the issues on Netflix are gone. Watched Godless in Dolby Vision on Netflix on the ATV4K and an LG C7 and some of the dark scenes the blacks were noticeably elevated, including the black bars. They just went grey. This was a week ago.


Can you try the same source using the LG C7 Netflix app and see if the blacks are elevated?


- Rich

Couch Viking 01-05-2018 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB (Post 55439128)
Can you try the same source using the LG C7 Netflix app and see if the blacks are elevated?


- Rich

It wasn't my TV, but I can certainly give it a try next time I'm there. Will be interesting to see how the A1E will fare when it comes to this problem. If the DV update actually materializes... :D

jlsavs 01-05-2018 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch Viking (Post 55438838)
I don't think the issues on Netflix are gone. Watched Godless in Dolby Vision on Netflix on the ATV4K and an LG C7 and some of the dark scenes the blacks were noticeably elevated, including the black bars. They just went grey. This was a week ago.

yeah .. I thought GODLESS was not very impressive at all ))-: .. in terms of its 4K+HDR performance .. just didn't look good to me at the time .. that was a month or so back iirc ..

video_analysis 01-05-2018 04:04 PM

I thought Godless looked pretty fantastic on the G6, YMMV.

256k 01-06-2018 07:55 AM

Then there's still a chance that it is a Dolby API problem... If it happens everywhere and in all TV brands...

Has anyone contacted Dolby already? i'm still waiting to see if they have some news... :/

usurpers26 01-06-2018 08:03 AM

Godless looked amazing on my G7 via internal Netflix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlsavs (Post 55440274)
yeah .. I thought GODLESS was not very impressive at all ))-: .. in terms of its 4K+HDR performance .. just didn't look good to me at the time .. that was a month or so back iirc ..


paku 01-06-2018 09:30 AM

Don't know if it's related but I noticed these weird little bugs in DV content on Netflix, using the internal app on my C7. The black bars are never affected, most likely because they're generated outside the DV system, but it's evident in the content, though I think all the ones I've seen have been on title screens and the like.

For example with OLED Light 50, Contrast 100, Brightness 50 there's a split-second white screen between the Netflix logo and the episode itself in the first episode of Godless, and the same between the end of the episode and the credits. Similarly in the first episode of Mindhunter there's a gray screen between the Netflix logo and the beginning of the episode, and a gray screen between each of the fading credits before the credits roll.

If you manage to pause on one of these screens and start to play with the settings you get totally weird results like OLED Light 50 might be showing a gray screen, 51 completely white, 52 dark gray, 53 darker gray and so on. Through this I determined the best setting to be OLED Light 54 and brightness 49, which seemed to get rid of all of these issues and make the ever-so-slightly elevated title/credit screens completely black.

RoadLizard 01-07-2018 04:28 AM

I’m not seeing this issue on my E6. I tried a Netflix show and a demo file on a thumb drive and blacks are inky and perfect. Does this affect all models? I assume so. Strange.

256k 01-08-2018 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadLizard (Post 55447772)
I’m not seeing this issue on my E6. I tried a Netflix show and a demo file on a thumb drive and blacks are inky and perfect. Does this affect all models? I assume so. Strange.

Not happening in all movies or all scenes, but here you can perfectly see it

(6:34)
(Right is DV, notice the raised blacks)

And on AppleTV 4K, the credits of Interstellar are totally gray for example... (And that taking in count that APPLE DOES NOT ENCODE THE BLACK BARS! So they're generated by the TV)

So thats why.. Please guys, call Dolby and give them feedback to fix this issue, i'm trying here with Dolby Spain and Dolby UK + LG UK/SP

RoadLizard 01-08-2018 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55453106)
Not happening in all movies or all scenes, but here you can perfectly see it

(6:34)
https://youtu.be/tXbPZGF9iAA?t=6m34s (Right is DV, notice the raised blacks)

And on AppleTV 4K, the credits of Interstellar are totally gray for example... (And that taking in count that APPLE DOES NOT ENCODE THE BLACK BARS! So they're generated by the TV)

So thats why.. Please guys, call Dolby and give them feedback to fix this issue, i'm trying here with Dolby Spain and Dolby UK + LG UK/SP

Gotchya. Hmmmm. I assume everything is the same between the two TVs and every other setting is identical? Just asking.

256k 01-08-2018 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadLizard (Post 55453192)
Gotchya. Hmmmm. I assume everything is the same between the two TVs and every other setting is identical? Just asking.

The video is HDR vs DV version, to show the differences, so he show the raised blacks on that scene

The issue is on 2016/17 OLEDS, and taking this in count, will be on 2018 too unless we make LG or Dolby fix it for all OLED TV's with DV

RoadLizard 01-08-2018 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55453200)
The video is HDR vs DV version, to show the differences, so he show the raised blacks on that scene

The issue is on 2016/17 OLEDS, and taking this in count, will be on 2018 too unless we make LG or Dolby fix it for all OLED TV's with DV

Got it - thanks for the info.

paku 01-08-2018 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55453106)
And on AppleTV 4K, the credits of Interstellar are totally gray for example... (And that taking in count that APPLE DOES NOT ENCODE THE BLACK BARS! So they're generated by the TV)

But presumably the output from the Apple TV is 2160p and not whatever resolution the video was encoded at, which means it's the Apple TV that's generating the black bars. Not saying it's not an LG issue, just that this fact doesn't really tell us anything.

256k 01-09-2018 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paku (Post 55454164)
But presumably the output from the Apple TV is 2160p and not whatever resolution the video was encoded at, which means it's the Apple TV that's generating the black bars. Not saying it's not an LG issue, just that this fact doesn't really tell us anything.

No system will generate the black bars from a video, that would be useless effort when displaying a movie in it's correct ratio will make it show the black bars yes or yes

Those bars are generated by the tv's itself, the problem is there, BUT it could be a Dolby Vision API problem, being outdated, thats why i ask to call dolby to get this adressed

RichB 01-09-2018 07:54 AM

Looking at disks, some have the unstable black issue, others do not. So authoring must matter.

I have not seen the black issue on the native LG Netflix app.
It may have something to do with transmission over HDMI. That is in common to disk and ATV4K playback.

The issue does not get much press but it may be the reason for delayed support on disk players and displays.

The ATV4K went all-in on DV and there are clearly Netflix playback problems with the LG (and perhaps other displays).
That should raise the stakes.

- Rich

256k 01-09-2018 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB (Post 55462390)
Looking at disks, some have the unstable black issue, others do not. So authoring must matter.

I have not seen the black issue on the native LG Netflix app.
It may have something to do with transmission over HDMI. That is in common to disk and ATV4K playback.

The issue does not get much press but it may be the reason for delayed support on disk players and displays.

The ATV4K went all-in on DV and there are clearly Netflix playback problems with the LG (and perhaps other displays).
That should raise the stakes.

- Rich

Been looking all my DV movies really close to the TV, because sometimes the black bars are darker as hell, but still there... And they're in all movies, in a moment or another

Anyway, update from John Archer from Forbes, as he told me right now:

Quote:

LG have told me their own investigations show it is not their fault. Have a meeting with Dolby tomorrow.
So as i said, or it is a DV Firmware problem, so all TV's with DV Chipset will need to be updated, or it is a DV API problem that could be solved with newer DV API for all players/TV, which could explain the delay of DV UHD players...

illbill 01-09-2018 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichB (Post 55462390)
Looking at disks, some have the unstable black issue, others do not. So authoring must matter.

I have not seen the black issue on the native LG Netflix app.
- Rich

I've actually first noticed this issue via the native LG Netflix app when watching the latest season of Black Mirror. For some reason some episodes are HDR10 and others Dolby Vision. The title screen is simply text surrounded by black, so really easy to see the issue of raised blacks on the Dolby Vision episode vs HDR10. Crappy iphone pics -

HDR10 -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...rror_hdr10.pnghttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...rror_hdr10.png

Dolby Vision -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...kmirror_dv.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...kmirror_dv.png

mttpalmer 01-10-2018 05:42 AM

Wow, that DV pic looks like an LCD blooming nightmare! Perhaps somewhat due to a "crappy iPhone pic".

256k 01-11-2018 01:28 AM

So.. John archer got a update about the issue...

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...z#446aa7a52906

Good news for 2017 OLED users, 2016 users can forget about this almost for sure, don't think LG will fix our TVs :)

video_analysis 01-11-2018 01:47 AM

How pessimistic. It's one of a number of updates that LG should put out in good faith (even though I'm questioning that more and more lately). Everybody ring them up and voice your demands for a fix.

256k 01-11-2018 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by video_analysis (Post 55475384)
How pessimistic. It's one of a number of updates that LG should put out in good faith (even though I'm questioning that more and more lately). Everybody ring them up and voice your demands for a fix.

I'm already in touch with LG Spain, so they ask to the tech if they're gonna fix it... told them about the article, now waiting news...

PRO-630HD 01-11-2018 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 256k (Post 55475366)
So.. John archer got a update about the issue...

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...z#446aa7a52906

Good news for 2017 OLED users, 2016 users can forget about this almost for sure, don't think LG will fix our TVs :)

No where in the article does it state that 2017 Oled would be fixed and 2016 models would not. The DV elevated black issue is prevalent on every DV UHD bluray title on the market in low light level scenes. I own 11 titles and is can be seen on every one as the letterbox bars lose absolute black which should never happen on an Oled. I actually believe in good faith LG will fix the issue with DV titles because as it stands it is unacceptable. HDR10 was ready for the masses. DV clearly was not ready for prime time and still isn't to this day. When this fix comes that will change.

Stuntman_Mike 01-11-2018 07:43 AM

I think there's a good chance that manufacturers will roll out the update for all Dolby Vision capable TVs they have produced.

dodo/lurker 01-11-2018 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike (Post 55476464)
I think there's a good chance that manufacturers will roll out the update for all Dolby Vision capable TVs they have produced.

Exactly. There are consumers who think the TV is at fault and contact the manufacturer. LG can no longer say its Apple's, Oppo's, or whoever elses fault. You can be damn sure Apple, Oppo, etc, will be telling their customer service teams about this fix and will say to contact your TV manufacturer since Dolby has issued a fix. LG would have another mess on their hands if they don't acknowledge and roll out the update for all DV capable TVs.

wxman 01-11-2018 10:46 AM

Keep an eye out on the LG Korean site. If a fix is going to be released, it will be on that site first.


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