Curious how plasma compares anymore - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 01:22 PM
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post #32 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
I am puzzled by this statement of inky black and plasma in the same comment. On an OLED when you have black bars on a movie, that part of the TV simple isn't visible in a dark room, while on a plasma it is clearly there as a dark grey area. Plasma doesn't truly do black (sure it beats most LCDs, but I think most CRTs did too) the way OLED does.
Without a reference point, the OP might truly perceive them to be such. Once he gets an OLED, he'll see just how much he's missing. The 500M (and even the ZT60) are considerably darker than the V25. Still, the ZT60 is a phosphor glower next to an OLED in low APL scenes (see below) including the telltale glow of the letterbox bars. A tweaked 500M is very close to an OLED on the other hand.
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Originally Posted by Manoj Mohan View Post
I dont know ... my Zt60 was pretty inky black. When I look at my zt60 and oled they look same black level to me.
Sure, if the content you were watching was not with a low APL (average picture level). In a blackout environment, as soon as you hit an extended dim scene and the pupils dilate, the darkest areas tend to take on a noticeable (phosphor) glow. That was one of my motivations for sacrificing the ZT60 for an even smaller OLED (55") way back in 2014 (belittle me all you want ).
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post #33 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alfa1 View Post
I have all of the displays mentioned in this thread - I am running out of places to move them to! Now, 55 LG E7 oled in bedroom, Panasonic 50 VT 20 in office, and Panasonic 65 ZT 60 as main display in home theater. Initially, while I love the absolute blacks on the E7, I was slightly underwhelmed to be honest. There is a richness and "organicness" to the plasma picture that oled does not have - it looks more "digitized", though not as bad as LED/LCD, and the motion is not as smooth. My wife (who is no videophile) asked if I could bring the VT 20 back into the bedroom as she preferred the picture, rising blacks and all. I refused, and fortunately LG came out with the Technicolor firmware update, which substantially improved the picture, colors were richer, everything just looked better. The Dolby Vision demos are pretty spectacular too, so I am content now that I feel the E7 was an upgrade over the VT 20, except in motion handling, and maybe still in the naturalness of the image.


As to the ZT 60 vs. the E7, even with 4K, HDR, and perfect blacks, I am not sure that I prefer the oled to the plasma overall. With just a small amount of ambient light (which is how I like to watch movies), the ZT 60 blacks are indistinguishable from the oled. The picture on the ZT is just a little more natural and rich, and the motion handling is better. And I still enjoy a 3D movie, which is no longer available on oled.


Lastly, I got an HD Fury Linker to be able to play the 4K streams from my Roku Premeire Plus (which have Atmos audio). I got it for the Atmos audio, but I was really surprised how good 4K content downscaled by the Linker looked on my ZT 60. I think it has something to do with 444 Chroma Sub-Sampling, but 4K content on my 1080P ZT 60 looks spectacular - it really looks 4K! And the ZT 60 is capable of 98% coverage of the P3 color space so on wide color gamut 4K material I can have the Linker send rec 2020 color to the ZT 60 for more "pop" in the colors.
3D is a huge improvement in the 2016 OLEDs versus the ZT60, mainly in owing to the increased brightness and the more comfortable and lightweight passive glasses. I could count the number of 3D titles i owned on one hand when I had the ZT60...I'm now approaching 150 with the G6.

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Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post
I have a Panasonic 65VT60 in my living room and a 60ST50 in my bedroom. Both are inky black in black scenes or where bars are in place. And, I watch in a totally dark room with no backlights or anything like that. I have still not seen anything that's out today that can touch them, including OLED. You can have mine when they die or when I die.
That sounds like a visual perception thing. Load up a low-light film like Prometheus (caves, space), and the final generation Panasonic plasmas will definitely glow in that kind of environment. Don't put LCD and OLED in the same league please.
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post #34 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Manoj Mohan View Post

yeah yeah man, keep them. Dont get trapped into this whole 4k thing. But I do want to say going from a 65" plasma to a 65" oled is just dumb. Going from a 65" plasma to a bigger TV like my 77" or bigger.. then you can actually appreciate 4k.

Mo
I agree and disagree with this. I agree with keeping them and placing them to another room but I disagree about going from plasma to the same size Oled "dumb". Not everyone can afford big bucks on a 77" Oled, although obviously it would show the biggest impact but going the same size is not "dumb".

It would still be a significant good upgrade.

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post #35 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 03:26 PM
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It's weird. Everyone is comparing how dark the displays are vs. one another.

For me, one of the most compelling OLED features will be how much brighter it is than my plasma.

Night and day.
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There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #36 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 03:46 PM
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I mentioned brightness, but the statement was encapsulated in a remark about 3D.
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post #37 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, this has been enlightening. Accounting for some assumptions about what I may or may not be aware of, or how I may or may not have my old plasma setup, I'm inclined to think, and honestly I suspected, that there are some very significant improvements in new display tech. It's all good, I am glad to have all the corroborating testimonials of the differences and improvements.

I don't have to be an any huge rush to sell the plasma, but were the time to come, I guess just a local add, craigslist and such would be the way to go? I tend to be wary of having completely strange people over to the house, craigslist stories and all, but I would assume someone would want to see that it works. Just for giggles, anyone have a ballpark guess what a guy might get for a 10 year old 65" plasma? It's certainly not a giveaway, donation thing at this point, is it?
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post #38 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by onebluemcm View Post
This is a popular forum!

I've seen the latest and greatest in the stores, hard to compare though the way they have them set up in the big box stores. We've been thoroughly pleased with our Panasonic 65" plasma - TC-P65VT25 that we've had for oh, probably 9-10 years now. It doesn't get a ton of usage, probably on average 1-2 hours a day over that time. I have the setup up pretty well fine tuned at this point, building on original recommendations from when these first hit the market, I still to this day get a thrill out of it's handling of low light shadows and inky blacks. It's a energy hog for sure, something that the newer OLED/LED tech certainly improves on.

So just wondering, with comparable screen setups, how an good plasma of this vintage compares to the newer stuff? Obviously it doesn't do 4k, so lets say also comparing similar source material. We are looking at completing a basement renovation this year (hopefully - kids may extend the time frame....) and I have to consider whether to put the plasma down there and move to something else for where it is, in a living room, or keep it where it is and go to a projector in the new area, just weighing the options. Lots to factor in at this point, the "visual aid" just one of them.
You should consider putting a projector in your basement. Save some money by keeping your current display and put that money toward a projector. You mentioned you were doing a renovation and considering a projection set up. I can't believe after so many posts more people have not addressed this. Immersion is king. You need a very large viewing angle for a true home theater experience and unless you want to sit absurdly close to your OLED you are going to have an inferior visual experience. I would suggest looking up some charts to find out how close you need to sit to a certain size screen to resolve 4K assuming 20/20 vision. If you are putting a home theater in your basement then a projector will give you a true cinematic experience.

This would allow you to just leave the existing plasma where it is. You will never want to watch another movie on it anyway after you get a dedicated home theater with a projector. I know because I did the exact same thing. I LOVE my 9 year old 60'' Pioneer Kuro that sits proudly in my main floor living room. It does the HD from the cable box better than most displays. In fact I still marvel at the contrast and motion handling from time to time. But here is the truth. I have watched exactly ZERO films on that display since installing a projector in my home theater. The cinematic experience is simply not there. I currently sit 9' from a 110'' wide 2.35 screen (which is 120'' diagonal). My suggestion is to let your living room display entertain your kids with Paw Patrol and use a projector to watch anything that you actually care about.

Here is a picture from Avs member Piomaniac who posted this recently in regards to calibrating his JVC projector and comparing it to his 65'' OLED. He has them in the same room. Yes that tiny display on the bottom is 65''. He states that the images are similar after calibrating. You could do the same thing he has done and get the best of both worlds. I am not sure how close he sits to his OLED for critical viewing.


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post #39 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by onebluemcm View Post
Well, this has been enlightening. Accounting for some assumptions about what I may or may not be aware of, or how I may or may not have my old plasma setup, I'm inclined to think, and honestly I suspected, that there are some very significant improvements in new display tech. It's all good, I am glad to have all the corroborating testimonials of the differences and improvements.

I don't have to be an any huge rush to sell the plasma, but were the time to come, I guess just a local add, craigslist and such would be the way to go? I tend to be wary of having completely strange people over to the house, craigslist stories and all, but I would assume someone would want to see that it works. Just for giggles, anyone have a ballpark guess what a guy might get for a 10 year old 65" plasma? It's certainly not a giveaway, donation thing at this point, is it?
You can try AVS classifieds, but in response to your last question, it pretty much is. Display tech depreciates hugely especially after 10 years with a TV that has been pretty much outmatched in every way.
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post #40 of 305 Old 02-13-2018, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
You should consider putting a projector in your basement. Save some money by keeping your current display and put that money toward a projector. You mentioned you were doing a renovation and considering a projection set up. I can't believe after so many posts more people have not addressed this.
Thank you sir. Yes, I think this will be in the works for sure. We will most likely be doing a drop ceiling with some sort of high quality, nice looking panels, so the opportunity to deal with acoustics is there. And I would be able to conceal a drop sown screen in it as well. I have only very, very superficially looked at projectors lately, only because I'm restraining my self from getting a head of myself, but I gather there have been massive strides in tech improvement there as well. So yeah, having the completely clean slate of this reno project is pretty exciting for the potential for a real immersive experience there for HT. Thanks!
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post #41 of 305 Old 02-14-2018, 07:09 AM
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I would second a projector. That above posting looks awesome. I wish I went with that instead. Maybe that sony 4k short throw for 25k.
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post #42 of 305 Old 02-14-2018, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by onebluemcm View Post
Well, this has been enlightening. Accounting for some assumptions about what I may or may not be aware of, or how I may or may not have my old plasma setup, I'm inclined to think, and honestly I suspected, that there are some very significant improvements in new display tech. It's all good, I am glad to have all the corroborating testimonials of the differences and improvements.

I don't have to be an any huge rush to sell the plasma, but were the time to come, I guess just a local add, craigslist and such would be the way to go? I tend to be wary of having completely strange people over to the house, craigslist stories and all, but I would assume someone would want to see that it works. Just for giggles, anyone have a ballpark guess what a guy might get for a 10 year old 65" plasma? It's certainly not a giveaway, donation thing at this point, is it?
You won't get much for a 10 year old plasma.I recently sold an 42"LCD that my parents bought probably 10-12 years ago.I had it in my garage, connected to a blu-ray player so people could see it working ,but not go in the house.

It took awhile to sell,I was about to the point of giving it away.
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post #43 of 305 Old 02-15-2018, 01:48 AM
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Exactly - a 10 year old TV is fully depreciated. If you bought a good one, your use value will exceed the market value.

Even if you happened to find an enthusiast who wanted to buy at the time you want to sell, it's not likely there are more than one of them answering your ad at the same time. So it's a buyer's market.

I wouldn't count on getting more than a 100 bucks or so for it.
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post #44 of 305 Old 02-15-2018, 07:16 AM
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I have two Panasonic plasmas. One is an older 50" VT25, and the other a 50" ST50. My wife and I still occasionally comment that while watching a 1080p Blu-ray movie, just how much we enjoy the picture quality. I agree with some others on here about that plasma-richness of color- not as intense as OLED, granted, but an undeniable, pleasant color rendering. Question: I really appreciate the perceived "natural" flesh tones from our plasmas. None of that "clay" look seen on LCD's. Honestly, are the OLED products rendering flesh tones equal or better to a well-tweaked plasma? I ask this of former plasma owners. And second, my plasmas seem to render the typical 1080i and 720p of Directv broadcast TV pretty darn well. I hear mixed messages about OLED handling of this level of screen information. Could folks speak more about this, please?

This is a GREAT thread going. Very insightful ! Thanks.
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
I have two Panasonic plasmas. One is an older 50" VT25, and the other a 50" ST50. My wife and I still occasionally comment that while watching a 1080p Blu-ray movie, just how much we enjoy the picture quality. I agree with some others on here about that plasma-richness of color- not as intense as OLED, granted, but an undeniable, pleasant color rendering. Question: I really appreciate the perceived "natural" flesh tones from our plasmas. None of that "clay" look seen on LCD's. Honestly, are the OLED products rendering flesh tones equal or better to a well-tweaked plasma? I ask this of former plasma owners. And second, my plasmas seem to render the typical 1080i and 720p of Directv broadcast TV pretty darn well. I hear mixed messages about OLED handling of this level of screen information. Could folks speak more about this, please?

This is a GREAT thread going. Very insightful ! Thanks.
Great Questions!

As a Plasma owner myself ST60,Elite Pro 1150,and potential OLED buyer,I wonder about these things myself.

Most of our viewing is OTA and streaming of Netflix and Amazon.
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post #46 of 305 Old 02-15-2018, 07:50 AM
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Well .. I was just offered 3500 for my 77" G6p. Sigh.. oh well.. guess its not going anywhere.
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post #47 of 305 Old 02-15-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
I have two Panasonic plasmas. One is an older 50" VT25, and the other a 50" ST50. My wife and I still occasionally comment that while watching a 1080p Blu-ray movie, just how much we enjoy the picture quality. I agree with some others on here about that plasma-richness of color- not as intense as OLED, granted, but an undeniable, pleasant color rendering. Question: I really appreciate the perceived "natural" flesh tones from our plasmas. None of that "clay" look seen on LCD's. Honestly, are the OLED products rendering flesh tones equal or better to a well-tweaked plasma? I ask this of former plasma owners. And second, my plasmas seem to render the typical 1080i and 720p of Directv broadcast TV pretty darn well. I hear mixed messages about OLED handling of this level of screen information. Could folks speak more about this, please?

This is a GREAT thread going. Very insightful ! Thanks.
I think it looks the same. When viewing 1080p material I cannot tell a difference between my plasma and oled, other then that the oled is bigger of course
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post #48 of 305 Old 02-16-2018, 07:19 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by Manoj Mohan View Post
I think it looks the same. When viewing 1080p material I cannot tell a difference between my plasma and old, other then that the oled is bigger of course

Yes, I can easily imagine that. What concerns me is my old 50" Panny VT25 plasma VS. a LG OLED C7, for instance, with 720p or 1080i material, e.g. the news, regular network programming. I have briefly seen some OLED that looked sort of bad with the 720p, compared to my 2K plasma.
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post #49 of 305 Old 02-16-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
Yes, I can easily imagine that. What concerns me is my old 50" Panny VT25 plasma VS. a LG OLED C7, for instance, with 720p or 1080i material, e.g. the news, regular network programming. I have briefly seen some OLED that looked sort of bad with the 720p, compared to my 2K plasma.

It depends on your service provider. Everything looks quite good on my Oled with 720p/1080i.

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Thumbs up Thanks for the feedback !

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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
It depends on your service provider. Everything looks quite good on my Oled with 720p/1080i.

Attachment 2362464
Thanks man ! That newscast picture looks very sharp/clean (and that is on my 5 year old Apple monitor ! ) So, that photo is from your 2 year old LG OLED ?
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post #51 of 305 Old 02-16-2018, 09:03 PM
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Thanks man ! That newscast picture looks very sharp/clean (and that is on my 5 year old Apple monitor ! ) So, that photo is from your 2 year old LG OLED ?
Yes it, newer Oleds are much improved. Here is another pic from History channel taken in daytime with blinds slightly closed.

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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
I am puzzled by this statement of inky black and plasma in the same comment. On an OLED when you have black bars on a movie, that part of the TV simple isn't visible in a dark room, while on a plasma it is clearly there as a dark grey area. Plasma doesn't truly do black (sure it beats most LCDs, but I think most CRTs did too) the way OLED does.
My pannyst60 got inky black bars! What plasma do you own?
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post #53 of 305 Old 02-17-2018, 03:06 AM
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My pannyst60 got inky black bars! What plasma do you own?
That is a illusion. Unless you have a tweaked 2009 top of the line Pioneer Plasma or a ultra black Pioneer Plasma prototype your Plasma will glow on a full black screen.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22528503/n.../#.WogJRely5EY
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I love my OLED. The only problem I have is sometimes there is some mild soap opera effect despite all the motion settings off. But then I run to my other room where I have a plasma watch the same scene and the motion looks the same, no difference between plasma and oled.. so i'm like whatever. I give up. I dont know if its SOE or if thats they way its supposed to be. Does anyone else notice SOE with all motion settings off?
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Originally Posted by Manoj Mohan View Post
I love my OLED. The only problem I have is sometimes there is some mild soap opera effect despite all the motion settings off. But then I run to my other room where I have a plasma watch the same scene and the motion looks the same, no difference between plasma and oled.. so i'm like whatever. I give up. I dont know if its SOE or if thats they way its supposed to be. Does anyone else notice SOE with all motion settings off?
I have noticed certain shows are made that way. Very few though.

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post #56 of 305 Old 02-17-2018, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
That is a illusion. Unless you have a tweaked 2009 top of the line Pioneer Plasma or a ultra black Pioneer Plasma prototype your Plasma will glow on a full black screen.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22528503/n.../#.WogJRely5EY
I know a illusion when I seen one! I grew up in the 70's . I don't care about stats, I'm going by real world viewing. Nuff said!
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post #57 of 305 Old 02-17-2018, 10:36 PM
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<--- Huge Plasma Fan for over a Decade!

My 50" Kuro was a Best Buy floor model I got for half price in 08'
also have an older 5070 Pio in the Master Bedroom that's 12 years old now.

But I also had an Epson 1080UB PJ since 2008 in the same room with the KURO
and a cheap $250 ebay powered drop 120" screen for Movies and PS3 Gaming.

...all that changed in 2016
for HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 4K/UHD/HDR/DV video (JVC/OLED)
and 7.4.4 Dolby ATMOS/DTS:X audio upgrades (Yamaha/Funk Audio)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
Here is a picture from Avs member Piomaniac who posted this recently in regards to calibrating his JVC projector and comparing it to his 65'' OLED. He has them in the same room. Yes that tiny display on the bottom is 65''. He states that the images are similar after calibrating. You could do the same thing he has done and get the best of both worlds. I am not sure how close he sits to his OLED for critical viewing.


My viewing distance is ~8.5' eyes to screen (65" OLED/120"screen)

From humble beginnings...

My wall mounted 50" Kuro shortly after starting my make-shift man-cave in the unfinished basement:


Same room today...







More screenshots here... if anyone is interested:

Spoiler!


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The Unfinished Basement Theater & Whisky Guitar Lounge | Bass EQ for Filtered Movies
JVC DLA X750 4K Projector | 120" Powered Drop Screen | 65" LG 65B6P OLED | Panasonic DMP UB900 | Oppo UDP 203 | HDFury Vertex
Yamaha RX-A3070 | 7.4.4.4 | Mission M3i x11 | Funk Audio 18.0 x2 | Velodyne DLS 5000R x2 | Crowson LvL3 MA x4 | miniDSP 2x4HD

Last edited by PioManiac; 02-18-2018 at 06:18 AM.
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post #58 of 305 Old 02-17-2018, 11:30 PM
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My vt30 does seem to have more rich colors vs my lg 9800, I can see it when watching football with the angle to see both tvs

Lg 65 C7
Lg 9800 1080 Oled
Epson LS10500
Panasonic UB820 uhd player
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post #59 of 305 Old 02-18-2018, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ez1dog View Post
I know a illusion when I seen one! I grew up in the 70's . I don't care about stats, I'm going by real world viewing. Nuff said!
In a dark scene your ST60 blacks will no longer be black in real world viewing..more like dark grey-ish. Put it next to a OLED and you will see...
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post #60 of 305 Old 02-19-2018, 09:02 AM
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Im really liking my 77" G6p. I would say motion is slightly better then my 65" Zt60. Daytime viewing there is no comparison. The brightness and contrast of the Oled are superior. I haven't really watched too many movies in the dark. Again games are amazing. i would say once again it has surpassed my aging plasma. I hope it lasts as long as my Panasonic plasmas!
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