LG Officially Launches 2018 OLEDS and Super UHD TVs - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonHa View Post
But why, in this thread, before the TVs have come out?

Answer: The purpose is to attack LG before the TVs can be defended. They can't be defended since the TVs aren't out yet. And you and your gang know that.
The changes made to the 2018 models sound very good...should offer their owners more years of carefree operation than ever before. Focus on that. It's a positive thing. All good

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post #272 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 03:56 AM
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post #273 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 04:53 AM
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I agree with you, very annoying. People should start a new thread just to talk about that stuff.

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Originally Posted by JasonHa View Post
But why, in this thread, before the TVs have come out?

Answer: The purpose is to attack LG before the TVs can be defended. They can't be defended since the TVs aren't out yet. And you and your gang know that.
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post #274 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:09 AM
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If i was going to buy a another LG Oled which I probably will not I would not buy this for a couple of reasons.

1) 2018 Oled’s kind of reminds me of something Porsche does with a model end right before a refresh unload the parts bin on their customers to make room for the new tech on the next year model. 2018 Oled other than motion processing and who really cares about about Alexa turning on your tv.

2) still no 12 bit panel or HDMI 2.1 - HDMI 2.1 is going to benefit everyone not just gamers. HDMI 2.1 is going to include the premium version of Dolby Vision and is going to be a huge step above what we get now with Dolby Vision. I would think that 12 bit panels will also be launched with HDMI 2.1 but maybe not at first. The 12bit panel and hdmi 2.1 may be the upgrade for 2020 and 2019 will just get hdmi 2.1 which alone won’t really matter except for gamers.
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post #275 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
If i was going to buy a another LG Oled which I probably will not I would not buy this for a couple of reasons.

1) 2018 Oled’s kind of reminds me of something Porsche does with a model end right before a refresh unload the parts bin on their customers to make room for the new tech on the next year model. 2018 Oled other than motion processing and who really cares about about Alexa turning on your tv.

2) still no 12 bit panel or HDMI 2.1 - HDMI 2.1 is going to benefit everyone not just gamers. HDMI 2.1 is going to include the premium version of Dolby Vision and is going to be a huge step above what we get now with Dolby Vision. I would think that 12 bit panels will also be launched with HDMI 2.1 but maybe not at first. The 12bit panel and hdmi 2.1 may be the upgrade for 2020 and 2019 will just get hdmi 2.1 which alone won’t really matter except for gamers.
Samsung is coming out with their own version of improved/connected voice control. LG and Samsung are doing battle with each other for the consumers wallet. Might explain some of the...odd things you feel you are seeing from LG regarding their focus on VC

I have never been fortunate enough to see DV...I don't think (maybe at BB without realizing it). So...I can't comment on HDMI 2.1. But I can understand why gamers might want to wait...
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post #276 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:33 AM
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Never seen DV? No wonder you're unphased by HDR10 (and its blown highlights) on our now antiquated 2016 OLEDs. At least trial Netflix (if your interweb is up to the task bandwidth-wise) so you can get a better approximation of how HDR is supposed to look.
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post #277 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:35 AM
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@no1special ...take your burn in theories and talk to the BI thread. We get it, you think that there is a problem. Stop cluttering the thread.
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post #278 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbadred00 View Post
Haven't bought a TV in a while. So day 1--March 19th for many of the models, the price at most retailers will be what is reflected in that list and then it'll drop in a few months? How do the prices of the previous years models usually go? How long till the 7s are phased out? Is it pretty immediate?
Historically drops around summer, I always suggest waiting, first reading reviews / issues, then seeing it in person and then waiting for the price to drop or go on sale. Always does sometimes sooner and sometimes longer, just depends on market conditions, holidays etc.

The 7's will be available for a long time to come but the main retailers usually phase it out when they deplete on hand inventory after they have enough 2018 supply give or take a month. However if you are thinking about a 2017 the current pricing is already low and not going to be on a fire sale anytime soon. Have yet to see a fire sale on OLED's as they sell well and get good reviews despite the known issues.
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post #279 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by satboy View Post
Historically drops around summer, I always suggest waiting, first reading reviews / issues, then seeing it in person and then waiting for the price to drop or go on sale. Always does sometimes sooner and sometimes longer, just depends on market conditions, holidays etc.

The 7's will be available for a long time to come but the main retailers usually phase it out when they deplete on hand inventory after they have enough 2018 supply give or take a month. However if you are thinking about a 2017 the current pricing is already low and not going to be on a fire sale anytime soon. Have yet to see a fire sale on OLED's as they sell well and get good reviews despite the known issues.
Thanks Sat-

I decided to go with the 65C7P and got it through a pretty good deal. Can't wait till it comes in. While the C8P (and the 8 family) will likely have additional features, I didn't feel as though based on what I've read it's worth the time or price increase. While I'm not super price sensitive when it comes to this purchase, I would prefer to get a good deal. I'm obviously excited to see and read about the 8 and hopefully they're awesome as advertised. There is no reason for anyone to be hoping a tech fails. It can only help the entire market if LG figures out the issues that people are dealing it. I hope I don't have to deal with any of the issues but I understand the risks.
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post #280 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbadred00 View Post
Thanks Sat-

I decided to go with the 65C7P and got it through a pretty good deal. Can't wait till it comes in. While the C8P (and the 8 family) will likely have additional features, I didn't feel as though based on what I've read it's worth the time or price increase. While I'm not super price sensitive when it comes to this purchase, I would prefer to get a good deal. I'm obviously excited to see and read about the 8 and hopefully they're awesome as advertised. There is no reason for anyone to be hoping a tech fails. It can only help the entire market if LG figures out the issues that people are dealing it. I hope I don't have to deal with any of the issues but I understand the risks.
Same here's, got my 65 c7 for less than half of the initial price
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post #281 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 06:11 AM
 
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If you are looking at a 2018 Q9, might as well look at the XBR-65Z9D and XBR-75Z9D.
The Xbr is a older tv and the q9 2018 models will surpass those sets .. im curious to compare the q9 to the new Sonys coming out this year and Oleds now thats where the competition is ..
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post #282 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 06:12 AM
 
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LG hasn't been up front
They have always included this sentence in the manuals, this is from page 12 of the 2017 G7 manual. More education on the issue is good if LG is doing it for 2018 for people new to OLED.
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post #283 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 06:40 AM
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2) still no 12 bit panel or HDMI 2.1 - HDMI 2.1 is going to benefit everyone not just gamers. HDMI 2.1 is going to include the premium version of Dolby Vision and is going to be a huge step above what we get now with Dolby Vision. I would think that 12 bit panels will also be launched with HDMI 2.1 but maybe not at first. The 12bit panel and hdmi 2.1 may be the upgrade for 2020 and 2019 will just get hdmi 2.1 which alone won’t really matter except for gamers.
I might be wrong but, judging from what I see in madVR (HTPC environment), good quality dithering will probably render pretty much null the difference between 12 and 10 bit panels, when displaying 12 bit content. Especially so in a 4K+ scenario.

I've uploaded, as an example, a still from Blade Runner, at 8 bit (Bluray source) and 6 bit dithered. Check it out. You can load full resolution and download the original screenshot.

https://ibb.co/nKga07 (8 bit)
https://ibb.co/hdKHDS (6 bit dithered)

Now imagine what the difference could be between native 10 bit and native 12 bit displayed on a 10 bit panel when properly dithered... I'd say negligible at best and quite likely invisible to eyes from a normal viewing distance.

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post #284 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 06:45 AM
 
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HDR and Samsung
Samsung started pushing this agenda in 2014 once they realized how their own OLED panel (KN55S9C) was delicate and subject to easy burn in and dimming at reasonable brightness levels. They then comprised this HDR brightness campaign with the other LCD TV manufactures as a way to front-load a competition with LG.

By making HDR a market standard, LG was forced to include it, thus slipping the entire market into this "brighter is better" mentality, now placing OLED TV into the lions den of panel malfunction that wouldn't normally be there.. When LG OLEDs were SDR only, such as the EC9300, and EG9600 (which had a weak streaming HDR added later) I personally never saw these burn-in threads, though the caution was there that it "could" happen..

Not until the LG 6 series when OLED panel brightness performance capability was raised did I start to see these BI issues crop up.

When I see cries for OLED to be brighter than the 700-730nit balance where D-Nice says he cals his TVs to, I shake my head knowing this is all part of the Samsung marketing plan. The UHD Alliance spec require OLEDs to hit only 540nit when black capability delivers 0.0005 - People look at the LCD spec of 1000nits and demand OLED deliver that when no one demand LCD do better than the 0.05 blackness performance closer to OLED.

If someone want a LED TV, get a LED TV. Why buy an OLED to do LED stuff on it then complain when a QLED is a good enough TV to do mostly gaming or watching CNN.
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post #285 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:02 AM
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I might be wrong but, judging from what I see in madVR (HTPC environment), good quality dithering will probably render pretty much null the difference between 12 and 10 bit panels, when displaying 12 bit content. Especially so in a 4K+ scenario.
You're not wrong. I'm actually using madVR 8-bit + dithering for 10-bit HDR content as it produces smoother gradients than feeding my C6 with native 10-bit. I tested this with various 10-bit test patterns.
LG's 10-bit implementation seems to be pretty lousy on the 2016 Oled TVs.

Having high color depth content is much more important than having a high color depth display when good quality dithering is used.
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post #286 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:09 AM
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They have always included this sentence in the manuals, this is from page 12 of the 2017 G7 manual. More education on the issue is good if LG is doing it for 2018 for people new to OLED.
Just checked my owners manual from my 2013 lg 9800 1080 oled and they have highlighted "preventing image burn or burn in on your tv screen"
Followed by a few points on what to do

Lg has been up front since day one, the previous poster is the one being disingenuous
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post #287 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:18 AM
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Just checked my owners manual from my 2013 lg 9800 1080 oled and they have highlighted "preventing image burn or burn in on your tv screen"
Followed by a few points on what to do

Lg has been up front since day one, the previous poster is the one being disingenuous

Not the way many see it...and me too. Are you familiar with the "Any risk of burn in has been addressed..." info LG put out? The one consumers see BEFORE making their purchase and seeing the owners manual for the first time? Very misleading. I would even say it borders on false, fraudulent advertising.

But I thought folks were so tired of talking about BI???
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post #288 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:18 AM
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Yes, let's take the burn in discussion over to the burn in thread, I think there's been enough talk on it here, sorry to even bring it up like 3 pages ago but just got this E6 up on Mon. and really frustrated because it was caused at store and just want to know if they've solved this issue yet with 2018 models, apparently not, like plasma it's inherit to the display tech. Again, sorry to start a derailment, this thread is about new 2018 models and we've really covered the burn in enough. I'll post over there what happens with my screen. Thanks for the responses.

(Overall, watching it last night I noticed the burn in likely less than 1 percent of the time, it takes large areas of color in that area to show it. Wish it wasn't there but too late now, unless it will go away over time.)
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post #289 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:20 AM
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Not the way many see it...and me too. Are you familiar with the "Any risk of burn in has be addressed..." info LG put out? The one consumers see BEFORE making their purchase and seeing the owners manual for the first time? Very misleading. I would even say it borders on false, fraudulent advertising.

But I thought folks were so tired of talking about BI???
No, didn't see that
But I did see in both of my oled owners manuals where it is addressed, in addition to my own research I did prior to buying my oleds, just like I did with my plasma

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post #290 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:21 AM
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Yes, let's take the burn in discussion over to the burn in thread, I think there's been enough talk on it here, sorry to even bring it up like 3 pages ago but just got this E6 up on Mon. and really frustrated because it was caused at store and just want to know if they've solved this issue yet with 2018 models, apparently not, like plasma it's inherit to the display tech. Again, sorry to start a derailment, this thread is about new 2018 models and we've really covered the burn in enough. I'll post over there what happens with my screen. Thanks for the responses.

(Overall, watching it last night I noticed the burn in likely less than 1 percent of the time, it takes large areas of color in that area to show it. Wish it wasn't there but too late now, unless it will go away over time.)
The 1% is true, even with plasma. It takes a certain scene to see it
But, I ALWAYS lose pq when moving off center of a LCD. Do their manuals cover that?
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post #291 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:22 AM
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This thread below has all of your perceived burn in issues and opinions you need.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...ad-photos.html
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post #292 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:26 AM
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No, didn't see that
But I did see in both of my oled owners manuals where it is addressed, in addition to my own research I did prior to buying my oleds, just like I did with my plasma
Well, that after the purchase...going to give BI talk a rest for now. But go back 5 or 6 pages to see it. Been posted around here many many times.
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post #293 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:30 AM
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@no1special ...take your burn in theories and talk to the BI thread. We get it, you think that there is a problem. Stop cluttering the thread.
You may not like how the info is being relayed but burn in with OLEDs is a real issue. Just look up that LCD vs OLED (I wish they could have had a plasma in there too) test that has been going for a while now. It’s now in week 24 and the LCDs still have no burn in but the OLED started to show in week 3 or 4 and were ruined in the next week or two. This is a 24/7 test but still. Maybe if you’ve money to burn and buy a new TV every other year but I’ve still got my now (I think) 10 year old Kuro and it still has great color and viewing angles and refresh rates.

It’s great that the price came down a little but after all this time it’s still a little crazy that the 77” is $9000 with no known panel update this year and no HDMI 2.1 update. Maybe they fixed the color uniformity and vignetting and so on but I’m not getting any younger and my Kuro could rightfully kick the bucket any day now.
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post #294 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post

2) still no 12 bit panel or HDMI 2.1 - HDMI 2.1 is going to benefit everyone not just gamers. HDMI 2.1 is going to include the premium version of Dolby Vision and is going to be a huge step above what we get now with Dolby Vision. I would think that 12 bit panels will also be launched with HDMI 2.1 but maybe not at first. The 12bit panel and hdmi 2.1 may be the upgrade for 2020 and 2019 will just get hdmi 2.1 which alone won’t really matter except for gamers.
If I am not mistaken no TV will have HDMI 2.1 this year......
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post #295 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:36 AM
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You're not wrong. I'm actually using madVR 8-bit + dithering for 10-bit HDR content as it produces smoother gradients than feeding my C6 with native 10-bit. I tested this with various 10-bit test patterns.
Sooo... you have 10-bit HDR content and you set madVR to output as if your display was 8-bit? Does HDR mode activate that way?

------------------

Regarding burn in risks: in the HTML manual you can download from LG site the logo functionality is described like this (OLED panel settings section):

Logo Luminance Adjustment

Adjust the luminance of static images such as logos within content to correct potential picture quality issues.

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post #296 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:44 AM
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Sooo... you have 10-bit HDR content and you set madVR to output as if your display was 8-bit? Does HDR mode activate that way?
Yes I have madVR and nvidia control panel set to 8-bit full RGB. HDR works exactly the same as with a full 10-bit chain just that madVR dithers down to 8-bit, which IMHO is superior than native 10-bit on LGs 2016 Oleds.
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post #297 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:47 AM
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The Xbr is a older tv and the q9 2018 models will surpass those sets .. im curious to compare the q9 to the new Sonys coming out this year and Oleds now thats where the competition is ..
Well the Z9D is 18 months old. It will be replaced this fall by a Z9F according to the claims I have read, along with a claimed A9F to replace the A1E, both using the X1 Ultimate in place of the existing X1 Extreme.

As for Q9 models beating the Z9D, well maybe the one model with lots of zones and backlit might have a slight chance, but I wouldn't believe it until I see it.

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post #298 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jeesus1888 View Post
Lol, i buy nice tv, will watch 4k quality picture and then i have to start cropping image
I call that BS.
Ok, movies are 21:9, but i dont understand why more and more tv series are with black bars. (not 16:9). They know that ALL tv-s are 16:9
Same reason lots of netflix content has artificial grain? Some directors have bad taste?

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post #299 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
If I am not mistaken no TV will have HDMI 2.1 this year......
Well if the claims of a Sony A9F with X1 Ultimate coming later this year are true, I would hope Sony has put HDMI 2.1 into their new chip.

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post #300 of 980 Old 03-08-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Yes I have madVR and nvidia control panel set to 8-bit full RGB. HDR works exactly the same as with a full 10-bit chain just that madVR dithers down to 8-bit, which IMHO is superior than native 10-bit on LGs 2016 Oleds.
Right, HDR is not linked to color bit depth, correct?

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