2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 215 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6421 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pennywise666 View Post
I dont see it get brighter at all. Thats because i turned off TCP in the service menu.
Why dont you just do that also??
Thanks I just did that, had to pay like $6 for the app to get the prompt for the service menu. This is such a dumb feature not sure why you'd want to dim the TV even more when it's already dark? Anyway I can confirm disabling TCP fixes it. I'm not concerned about menus or static images as the screen saver kicks in.
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post #6422 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 12:43 PM
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Thanks to @thepiecesfit for some help last night with the 24P/25P cadence issue I mentioned. I did some more internet research and discovered this thread which exactly explains the issue I'm perceiving (and the frustration too!)

https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...r-off.2004928/

When viewing Dolby Vision content, I switched to Game mode so that I could turn off Real Cinema (which was off by default in Game mode). It helped somewhat. I then turned on BFI which also helped (but also dimmed the content down). I turned on dynamic contrast, which helped with the brightness. BUT there was just too much post processing of the image going on.

I'm 50/50 on keeping the TV and might wait for another year or two until this problem gets sorted out. It seems like there's an overarching judder/SOE issue on all the OLEDs. It seems to me that there are some engineering limitations which are the cause of the problem. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this as I'm trying to figure it out.

With HDR comes the promise of bright whites and deep blacks. OLEDs right now are the best for black levels. And the perceived brightness is great even if it doesn't reach a full 1000 nits. I'm plenty happy with the brightness of the TV and I work with HDR content daily.

However, the TV is locked at 120hz which means that it is limited in what it can do with 24p content. It can either:

1. Create tween frames (SOE)
2. Add flicker (BFI)

Tween frames (AKA Real Cinema) create SOE, which is bad..
Without tween frames, judder can be perceived as bad.
Adding flicker helps but it reduces brightness and the response curve seems to change, which defeats the purpose of Dolby Vision.

So the manufacturer is backed into a bit of a corner due to engineering limitations. My best hunch is that they will have to increase the brightness of the display by 2x and do a better job with BFI in order to get 24P and 25P content to look at least as good as it did on plasma.

Again, if I'm wrong I encourage you to please correct me as I'd love to figure this out.

Thanks!
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post #6423 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by erudolph View Post
Hi… this LG C8 has several hundred hours on it and has been calibrated. In most viewing situations it looks great. However, when watching a Netflix series called Ozark which is rather dark, in the low light scenes I can see that the black level on the lower left portion of the screen is lifted quite noticeably. This is a photo of a fade to black from that Ozark series.

Question: in your opinion, is this within the expected range of variability of OLED displays, or is this something that the manufacturer should be dealing with as a warranty issue?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Ozark is a great series, but it is a dark gray mess IMO. Not reference material for any display, but I guess that's the Director is trying to make a point. If this is the only time you've seen that happen I doubt LG will do anything about it, could be considered an issue with the source. If you can replicate it with other material then you've got a case. Might help to post your settings too.
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post #6424 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 01:02 PM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Ozark is a great series, but it is a dark gray mess IMO. Not reference material for any display, but I guess that's the Director is trying to make a point. If this is the only time you've seen that happen I doubt LG will do anything about it, could be considered an issue with the source. If you can replicate it with other material then you've got a case. Might help to post your settings too.


If it makes anyone feel any better I have same problems with Ozark on my A8f , ended up watching most of the season in sdr.


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post #6425 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fernan1234 View Post
Motion on both OLED and LCD will never be as good as Plasma (let alone CRT) because of inherent limitation to the technology (look up "sample-and-hold" if you want more details).

The TruMotion settings help but they all have their drawbacks, and effectiveness varies depending on the content:
-De-blur: only works for 60fps content (mainly video games, some video content), overall good at reducing blur in motion, but can produce weird artifacts in the picture because this is essentially creating frames that don't exist to smoothen your perception of motion ("frame interpolation"). Might as well keep this at 10.
-De-judder: only works for 30fps content (pretty much all TV shows), is prone to introduce a lot more artifacts (because more fake frames are being made up), and generates the "soap opera effect". If you can tolerate it, try low settings.
-MotionPro: also called black-frame-insertion/flicker, pretty good at approaching the motion resolution of an impulse-based display like Plasma (though not as good as CRT), but basically halves the brightness of the picture, and the flicker may be noticeable in some content/for some people.

Basically it's all compromises.

Regarding picture softness, that is likely to be the case with sub-4K resolution content. As pointed out, no OLED has been good at upscaling (not even Sony's), just acceptable at best. The screens are just too big, even at 55 inches, for 780p/1080i and below. A setting sharpness of 0 for such content is not appropriate though. The standard seems to be 10, but no one is sure, some say 20. I'd say 1080p looks very good in this set, but anything lower is bound to disappoint and will look vastly better on a smaller LCD/Plasma/CRT.
fernan1234, thanks for the helpful information on TruMotion. I don't know whether the TV has "settled in" a bit over the first few hours, or whether my fiddling with various settings helped solve the problem, or whether my brain has just adjusted, but I'm not really noticing the fuzziness anymore.

At this point, I am watching all 1080p programming from Directv, and the picture is very good, noticeably better than my plasma (other than the slight motion issue I mentioned earlier). The picture is sharp, the colors are awesome, and the picture just pops more. And every time you see something black, it's like "wow."

The one and only somewhat major issue I have at this point is how reflective the screen is. We have widows in back of the seating position and even with the blinds drawn, you can see reflection if you look for it. When you get immersed into the program, you don't tend to notice it, but it is definitely much more reflection that my previous plasma. When the TV is off, it's almost like a mirror.

I'll have to see if this will be tolerable. I assume that the LED sets do not have such a reflective screen (don't know where I heard that), but I would just hate to give up on OLED when the picture looks this good. Fortunately, I have a 90-day return period to make up my mind.
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post #6426 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Ozark is a great series, but it is a dark gray mess IMO. Not reference material for any display, but I guess that's the Director is trying to make a point. If this is the only time you've seen that happen I doubt LG will do anything about it, could be considered an issue with the source. If you can replicate it with other material then you've got a case. Might help to post your settings too.

Hi, and thanks for the response. I'm away from the set but as I recall, I'm watching in Dolby Vision, Cinema User mode, with contrast at 95, brightness at 51, OLED Light at 50 and everything else default. All expert tweaks are turned off, and I believe the set was calibrated at the LUT level using CalMan.

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post #6427 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:05 PM
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Hey all, I'm coming over from the C6 forums, just got a C8 the other day. I noticed the Forbes article with the aggressive dimming issue.

When I setup my TV the other day, it updated to the newest firmware .05 I didn't mind though since I really didn't notice the dimming issue.

Today I came home from work and noticed my Google Assistant was reset so I set it up again and went back into TV settings to look at "about this TV" and I noticed my firmware was changed to .06

Can't find any info on this new firmware. Anyone know anything about it?

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post #6428 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by erudolph View Post
Hi… this LG C8 has several hundred hours on it and has been calibrated. In most viewing situations it looks great. However, when watching a Netflix series called Ozark which is rather dark, in the low light scenes I can see that the black level on the lower left portion of the screen is lifted quite noticeably. This is a photo of a fade to black from that Ozark series.

Question: in your opinion, is this within the expected range of variability of OLED displays, or is this something that the manufacturer should be dealing with as a warranty issue?


Thanks for your thoughts!


I have seen this before with content from Netflix and HBO Go/Now. Drives me nuts. I recall seeing this in "Hold the Dark" and the last episode of HBO's "Succession" both are dark scene torture tests.
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post #6429 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:25 PM
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Two other issues on which I'd like some input.

First, when watching a program off of Directv, it seems that every program has some sort of text on one side of the screen. For example, we were watching HGTV today, and on the screen was the white "HGTV" logo and some writing above that stating "All New House Hunters Next." I notice that this writing seems to flicker a bit, or flutter a bit like it's moving up and down slightly. Is this normal?

Second, as I mentioned earlier, the screen on the C8 is quite reflective. So with the blinds closed in back of my seating position, if I look "through" the picture, I can see the light seeping from the blinds in back of me. The blinds all run straight across and form straight horizontal lines across the TV screen, except at the bottom of the TV screen, where they are curved. Does this indicate that the panel is distorted in some way? It's not noticeable on programming, and if I turn the TV off to really see the reflection from the blinds, you can clearly see the blinds reflecting as curved lines at the bottom of the screen.
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post #6430 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Not my quote, have never owned a Lumagen Pro, but I did have a HDFury device which was sold a year ago. Glad you're enjoying the 77".
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
HDR10 Settings
HDR-10 Picture Mode: technicolor Expert

BASIC SETTINGS:
OLED LIGHT: 70 ( This will vary depending what nit levels the content was mastered as well as room brightness. There’s not really a way to know the mastered nit levels of any given title without a Lumagen which can read the metadata. So this is really a “how does it look to you” kind of thing. 70 seems to be a “happy" medium )
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 10
Color: 55
Tint: 0

EXPERT CONTROLS
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Super Resolution: Off
Color Gamut: Auto
Edge Enhancer: On
Color Filter: Off
Gamma: 2.2 ( default and greyed out )
Actually it is a quote from your post. See above.
I added the "Pro" to my reply because the Lumagen Radiance Pro is the only Lumagen that can read metadata. However there is no Lumagen that can read DV.
I used the HFfury Vertex as a example. Although there are at least one other HDfury product that can read metadata and DV.

btw, DNice is a very good choice to calibrate your TV's.

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post #6431 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 03:54 PM
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I really wish someone could watch these same scenes on an oled display capable of HDR or DV specifically a smartphone,etc. Curious to see if its the same effect on a laptop or whatever is on hand.




quoting this solely for the settings. thanks for selling me on this tv walt!



thank you



I mean you're not wrong, but low-key if you start a thread asking for opinions and feedback when considering purchasing a 3500$ investment, it sucks if only 5 people respond... Some members (me) are not long term vets and don't get a fantastic response. Instead, after the few responses I did get i was led here and did some digging and reading and voila Im a happy c8 owner!



Cam you are such a savage. I love it. Please PM your basic settings.



HOW the heck do i search a thread? the searching tool on this site is very strange and I almost always hit certain threads, or maybe I'm just confused, which i am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
Re the White Balance, you have to set them in both High and Low. Go to Point: High and set the R, G, B numbers, then go to Point: Low and do the same.



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can I put the same for gaming mode? Also what about dolby vision and hdr? same? (except for the oled light, maybe..I've read it's better leave that by default)
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post #6432 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 04:11 PM
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can I put the same for gaming mode? Also what about dolby vision and hdr? same? (except for the oled light, maybe..I've read it's better leave that by default)
That I don't know, as I don't use the Game mode, and I haven't tweaked the White Balance in Dolby Vision or HDR.

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post #6433 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by elphillips View Post
In the Sound & Vision test and review of the 65 C8 this month, Thomas Norton says engagement of the Logo Extraction Algorithm reduces average brightness by about 40%.
He can say that if he likes, but in real usage it doesn't look anything like that much. As we all keep saying, it's very hard to see it doing anything. I don't want logos "slightly dimmed", why bother because with all this phenomenal CPU power they should be doing what people who hate those logos want: provide an option to make the logos disappear completely. They are nothing but graffiti destroying TV dramas.

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I'm gonna try waltinuz settings, but I have a question, when we set the white balance for r g b high and low, we have to manually switch it back and forth, to change it, it's like it's either one thing or the other? What do I select before exiting the settings?
You should never use someone else's calibrated White Balance settings anyway: they are specific to the individual panel that had the meter put on it. If you do, you'll most likely make your white balance WORSE. By all means use their other settings, but never the White Balance.
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post #6434 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
That I don't know, as I don't use the Game mode, and I haven't tweaked the White Balance in Dolby Vision or HDR.
well games look like movies now lol, I figure I can try. Okay so I won't touch vision/hdr =)
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post #6435 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 05:32 PM
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He can say that if he likes, but in real usage it doesn't look anything like that much. As we all keep saying, it's very hard to see it doing anything. I don't want logos "slightly dimmed", why bother because with all this phenomenal CPU power they should be doing what people who hate those logos want: provide an option to make the logos disappear completely. They are nothing but graffiti destroying TV dramas.



You should never use someone else's calibrated White Balance settings anyway: they are specific to the individual panel that had the meter put on it. If you do, you'll most likely make your white balance WORSE. By all means use their other settings, but never the White Balance.
Sorry I mean the flatpanelshd settings... Anyways I thought it was okay to use that white balance as long as you don't copy the other much more extensive one, the Color Space Settings...which you have to do your own with the calibration probe. So I should put everything back to 0?
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post #6436 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Egidio Concas View Post
Sorry I mean the flatpanelshd settings... Anyways I thought it was okay to use that white balance as long as you don't copy the other much more extensive one, the Color Space Settings...which you have to do your own with the calibration probe. So I should put everything back to 0?

No , every Tv got a different color space , that means diffrent whites. in example , if your specific screen is producing more blue (out of the box) , your screen is giving out a more bluish white (cool white) for white balance and colors , thats for a Calibrator with gears to resolve. if you're not planning on getting your tv pro-calibrated , then i would just use the recommended Picture mode that is pretty accurate and play with the brightness and Contrast that fits you.
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post #6437 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 06:49 PM
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Motion on both OLED and LCD will never be as good as Plasma (let alone CRT) because of inherent limitation to the technology (look up "sample-and-hold" if you want more details).
Plasma's did handle motion very well......
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post #6438 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
BTW, watched the first two episodes of The Haunting of Hill House on Netflix last night, using Cinema (User), and it looked great. I did not notice any dimming issues at all, nor did I notice any grayed-out blacks or black crush. All seemed fine to me!

Just retested this, dv cinema default preset. First episode, during the first dark scene it will slowly dim down and stay that way until the intro plays at which point it undims. This is caused by ASBL as it doesn't happen when disabling it in the service menu. Why some people don't experience this (or just don't notice) I don't know.

Did you mess around with the settings while watching? Just bringing up the settings menu will reset the ASBL dimming timer.

Here's a video showing this, undimming happens when I bring up the settings menu:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10mY...ew?usp=sharing
I just watched this part, hit settings, and nothing happened on my B8 using update .06
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post #6439 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:10 PM
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Makes me afraid to update to .07
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post #6440 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:40 PM
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Perhaps the folks not noticing the issue with Dolby Vision are using Cinema (User) instead of Cinema Home(User)? The ABL kicks in quickly and doesn't slide up and down. This is on 4.10.6 on the 65" C8. Going to experiment some more. There is definitely a different tone mapping algorithm going on.
I've upgraded to 4.10.6, the dimming issue is very less noticeable and the delay in dimming is significantly less.

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post #6441 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bala_gamer View Post
I've upgraded to 4.10.6, the dimming issue is very less noticeable and the delay in dimming is significantly less.

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Okay, I will upgrade then
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post #6442 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:52 PM
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Thanks to @thepiecesfit for some help last night with the 24P/25P cadence issue I mentioned. I did some more internet research and discovered this thread which exactly explains the issue I'm perceiving (and the frustration too!)

https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...r-off.2004928/

When viewing Dolby Vision content, I switched to Game mode so that I could turn off Real Cinema (which was off by default in Game mode). It helped somewhat. I then turned on BFI which also helped (but also dimmed the content down). I turned on dynamic contrast, which helped with the brightness. BUT there was just too much post processing of the image going on.

I'm 50/50 on keeping the TV and might wait for another year or two until this problem gets sorted out. It seems like there's an overarching judder/SOE issue on all the OLEDs. It seems to me that there are some engineering limitations which are the cause of the problem. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this as I'm trying to figure it out.

With HDR comes the promise of bright whites and deep blacks. OLEDs right now are the best for black levels. And the perceived brightness is great even if it doesn't reach a full 1000 nits. I'm plenty happy with the brightness of the TV and I work with HDR content daily.

However, the TV is locked at 120hz which means that it is limited in what it can do with 24p content. It can either:

1. Create tween frames (SOE)
2. Add flicker (BFI)

Tween frames (AKA Real Cinema) create SOE, which is bad..
Without tween frames, judder can be perceived as bad.
Adding flicker helps but it reduces brightness and the response curve seems to change, which defeats the purpose of Dolby Vision.

So the manufacturer is backed into a bit of a corner due to engineering limitations. My best hunch is that they will have to increase the brightness of the display by 2x and do a better job with BFI in order to get 24P and 25P content to look at least as good as it did on plasma.

Again, if I'm wrong I encourage you to please correct me as I'd love to figure this out.

Thanks!
Did you try upgrading your firmware to 4.x.x ? Because judderring issue is fixed in that version ,also from what I've read you can leave true cinema to on as it only kicks in for 24p contents. I have a huge collection of 24p contents collected over the years , the motion was not that good with 3.x.x but definetly much much better with 4.x.x ,rtings.com too tested and confirmed the same.

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post #6443 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 07:58 PM
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I received mine yesterday 😞
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post #6444 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 08:28 PM
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I received mine yesterday 😞
It had a run in with Jaws?
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post #6445 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 09:15 PM
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Did you try upgrading your firmware to 4.x.x ? Because judderring issue is fixed in that version ,also from what I've read you can leave true cinema to on as it only kicks in for 24p contents. I have a huge collection of 24p contents collected over the years , the motion was not that good with 3.x.x but definetly much much better with 4.x.x ,rtings.com too tested and confirmed the same.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Thanks for that and yes I upgraded this afternoon after my original post. It did seem to help a lot but it's not 100%. First I upgraded to 4.10.5 and then to 4.10.6. The .5 upgrade looked a little better to my eye but it's hard to call it a scientific test.

It's fixed enough that I think I'll keep the TV. Hopefully they'll continue to improve upon these fixes!
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post #6446 of 22214 Old 10-17-2018, 11:21 PM
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Hi guys, one question, from where do I get the FW 4.10.06 for C8? And is it installable via usb stick?
Thanks a lot in advance!
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post #6447 of 22214 Old 10-18-2018, 01:34 AM
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Regarding picture softness, that is likely to be the case with sub-4K resolution content. As pointed out, no OLED has been good at upscaling (not even Sony's), just acceptable at best. The screens are just too big, even at 55 inches, for 780p/1080i and below. A setting sharpness of 0 for such content is not appropriate though. The standard seems to be 10, but no one is sure, some say 20. I'd say 1080p looks very good in this set, but anything lower is bound to disappoint and will look vastly better on a smaller LCD/Plasma/CRT.

Thanks for that info. I experimented a bit more today and found that even though the sharpness at 15-20 seems to cause fonts to "shiver" with edge enhancement I can tolerate that with a crisper, less hazy image of the action. And I can then turn off the super resolution.

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post #6448 of 22214 Old 10-18-2018, 02:03 AM
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My C8's internal speaker lost sound. Had LG repair come to my place and repair it. First they replaced the main motherboard. No luck there. Tested the speakers - they were working. Finally, they replaced the power source and that fixed the problem.

They forgot to take the new motherboard they placed on my tv so now my usage counter is back to zero.

Now I can't tell the real # of hours I have used it. Last I checked i was close to 200hours already but that was a few weeks ago.

Anyway, shouldn't be a big deal, right? I mean, I imagine this tv will last me for several thousands of hours anyway. Fingers crossed.
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post #6449 of 22214 Old 10-18-2018, 05:51 AM
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I received mine yesterday 😞
Ouch!!!!

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post #6450 of 22214 Old 10-18-2018, 06:39 AM
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Ugh so remember when I told everyone I was still on the 3.x firmware? Well I looked last night and someone in the house clicked the "yes" on the upgrade box and it said I was at 4.x.05. I have NO idea when this happened so I have no confidence in the reporting back that I did earlier in the week about dimming on the 3.x firmware. I only noticed it because it offered to install 4.x.06 so I was like, hmmm, let me look what it thinks i have and it said 4.x.05. I upgraded to 4.x.06 and noticed something. Has anyone seen the dimming when watching UHD bluray discs? I only have 1 (Last Jedi) and have not seen any dimming in it and I'm about 3/4 of the way through it. I also watched a bunch of demo files streaming from my NAS last night after the firmware upgrade and did not see any dimming there either. I'm going to look at netflix and amazon again tonight real quick, but if internet streaming is the only thing causing the dimming then, hell i don't know what the "then". Either way I'm happy with the tv.
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