2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 295 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8821 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by eraniolo View Post
I doubt whether this is an issue than can be fixed by firmware update.

That would suck...but at least we know we could get the issue resolved with a swap. Although I believe @jk82 already swapped his and the new panel had exactly the same issue. Mine does have the macroblocking issue, but anywhere near what you described. I kinda think they are all affected, some just worse than others.

Last edited by iSeries; 11-29-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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post #8822 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Remember LG pushes them out at different intervals for different areas - countries and within the country at least in the US. I suspect you'll see it pop up in a week or less.
That's fantastic for what seems everybody else, lol! I have my C8 since June, I have never had an update come through the tv. I have had it set to autocheck and manual check. Everytime, it kept on checking, may take awhile, checking and no update found. I always had to either get it from LG's website or hunt it down!!! Hopefully someone soon will post it online so people with this issue can update via usb.
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post #8823 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:30 PM
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Bahh Mission Impossible (2018) 4K HDR,,, has some scenes in the dark that are unwatchable... macro blocking is bad,,, for example around 02:07:00 … lots of dots and noise and yellow faces (pretty dark scene with near black zones) ... I really doubt its the source. Sony A9F doesn't have those kind of issues?

Looks similar to the video iSeries posted:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57185040

TV : LG OLED 65C8 [U]

Last edited by Dreamer2018; 11-29-2018 at 05:35 PM.
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post #8824 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
That's fantastic for what seems everybody else, lol! I have my C8 since June, I have never had an update come through the tv. I have had it set to autocheck and manual check. Everytime, it kept on checking, may take awhile, checking and no update found. I always had to either get it from LG's website or hunt it down!!! Hopefully someone soon will post it online so people with this issue can update via usb.
Yeah that's usually how it is...stars have to be aligned for it to be automatic!
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post #8825 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BerserkDoomguy View Post
How does everyone feel about dynamic tone mapping? Do people use it or not? I was noticing that it screws up HDR calibration in games because it actively changes the luminance as you are adjusting in game setting.
It does break most games HDR calibration, but most games HDR calibration is subpar. On Halo Master Chief Collection and Gran Turismo Sport it works fine alongside their calibration suites. I still use it for all HDR games as I have found it allows for a higher APL than it off, while still retaining highlight detail. Halo's calibration demonstrates this.

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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
I dont game on my C8, but imo i like DTM enabled for movies, with it off I find a lot of movies are dim...of course this is due to mastering...but still.
For movies I have it off, but that's mostly because I have the UB820, so I let the Panasonic do the tone mapping as I find it superior to LG's (near the start of Mad Max Fury Road, right before Immortan Joe releases the water, there is a shot of him in the cave where it's dim, with this 10-20% window that is the outside. The LG lowers the APL of the whole scene to retain the highlight of the sunlight coming in, while the the ub820 retains the highlight and color of the sky better, while maintaining the same luminance for the rest of the image). But this is an edge case, as Mad Max is a 4000 nits mastered movie. LG just needs to tweak it a bit to get it to avoid lowering APL on the difficult shots, but overall it's a great feature, even more so for games.
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post #8826 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:38 PM
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^im seriously tempted to get the panny...but waiting for the price to go down...and btw you answered a question I've been meaning to ask in regards leaving DTM off when paired to that player...thanks!
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post #8827 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:42 PM
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I did flash the EU 04.10.06 from US 05. I wonder if that would stop updates through the TV? Grasping at straws, really!
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post #8828 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer2018 View Post
Bahh Mission Impossible (2018) 4K HDR,,, has some scenes in the dark that are unwatchable... macro blocking is bad,,, for example around 02:07:00 … lots of dots and noise and yellow faces (pretty dark scene with near black zones) ... I really doubt its the source. Sony A9F doesn't have those kind of issues?

Looks similar to the video iSeries posted:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57185040

That Mission Impossible scene is very very grainy in the source, pausing/unpausing or shifting it around does nothing. It doesn't cause the issue I showed in the video, at least not on my panel. Are you sure you're seeing macroblocking in there because I don't.
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post #8829 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
I did flash the EU 04.10.06 from US 05. I wonder if that would stop updates through the TV? Grasping at straws, really!
That might be disturbing since it's been a given that US/KR/etc. displays won't accept EU firmware.
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I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #8830 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wfiveash View Post
Just wanted to mention that I was able to play a large 4K HDR movie using a USB drive connected to the USB input on the LG C8. The trick was to format the USB drive using the NTFS filesystem (I used Tuxera NTFS for Mac) since the LG does not read ExFAT (which sucks). Once the USB drive is plugged in to the LG I brought up the input list, selected the drive and at that point was able to browse the drive and play video files.

Hope that's useful to someone.
I use ExFat on a Large thumb drive formatted on a Mac and it seems to play fine on my C8.

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post #8831 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Could you please try this test video I made? Download and play directly to the TV via USB.
(Technicolor or ISF dark at default settings, default brightness)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vp...tNQidkEZnmjGuV
Do some of the squares flash up, as in getting brighter than they should be when they change color?

I know there were some much more severe cases back then, which I couldn't reproduce. On mine the problem only shows up during specific scenes and it's quite rare.
I just want to figure out if all panels show this problem to some extent.
I just checked your test pattern. I set the tv to Technicolor and left all settings to default.

I don't see any squares getting brighter when they change color .. I have a 65 C8

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post #8832 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
^im seriously tempted to get the panny...but waiting for the price to go down...and btw you answered a question I've been meaning to ask in regards leaving DTM off when paired to that player...thanks!
Yeah the price performance curve of it vs the UBK90 is not in the Panasonic's favor. I got it at a lower price from someone that bought it but just loved his Oppo too much lol.

Both on doesn't work very well imo, just ends up being overly aggressive and dimming the picture. But if you want more luminance in your image you won't have to worry, the HDR optimizer comes in 4 presets:

Standard: the way it's supposed to look aka dark room viewing
Natural Light: tastefully increases luminance (think of it as Dolby Vision Cinema Home and Standard as DV Cinema). I use this during daytime as I have curtains.
Light Room: living room with no curtains
Bright Room: aka the sun is aiming directly at your tv mode

It's a bit ironic, the player is built for videophiles, but those that like a punchier, brighter image would benefit a lot from it as it has ways to seriously increase luminance without having to resort to vivid/dynamic modes, so you can still have at least some measure of accuracy.

For most people on the 8 series, the LG player is more than enough as the Panasonic doesn't really change anything for 1000 nits movies since LG changed the tone mapping on the 2018 sets. But for those on older Oleds this player is a godsend.
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post #8833 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
I just checked your test pattern. I set the tv to Technicolor and left all settings to default.

I don't see any squares getting brighter when they change color .. I have a 65 C8

Thanks for testing, brightness was set to 50 and it doesn't do the flashing squares when changing color like shown in this video at the end?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk



If yes that would indicate that there are indeed panels which don't have the problem at all. Maybe I got unlucky 2 times....
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post #8834 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
That Mission Impossible scene is very very grainy in the source, pausing/unpausing or shifting it around does nothing. It doesn't cause the issue I showed in the video, at least not on my panel. Are you sure you're seeing macroblocking in there because I don't.
Yeah it's in the source, here is the blu-ray.com review mentioning it: "The Dolby Vision color palette is another highlight that improves upon the Blu-ray imagery. Of note are deeper and more consistently natural black levels, though the image does struggle when the film is pushed in a few shots during a low light underground sequence in chapter 10 (that is also the most prominently and intensely grainy segment of the film)."

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Missi...205013/#Review
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post #8835 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I’ve seen it in the revenant uhd blu Ray. The scene when Tom hardy and the younger kid are talking around the fire. The back ground does a lot of strange things in that scene. I try the same scene on my b7 and you can see the micro blocking and fizing close up but it no where near the amount the c8 does. From normal seated distance I would not see it on the b7.
Confirmed for The Revenant UHD. Especially bad at 1hr17m29s. Weird ugly flashing macroblocks above the flames on the top right side of the screen. Pause and they disappear. Have given this as a scene to check to John Archer, Vincent, and rtings.
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post #8836 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
That’s great that video looks just like how my set looks. Thanks
Do you guys think it will be fixed? The uniformity is pretty good for me for once but most dark scenes are unwatchable with all the pixelation that is going on which also causes my blacks to look lighter. Only thing that has worked is dropping down the brightness to 45 but it's still a little visible and shouldnt have to be a solution... How on earth have they managed to do this? When i'm comparing it to my C7 there is no pixelation going on at all in the scenes, just natural grain so cant really believe how theyve managed to do this.

So i guess i will have to return it unless they come out with an answer soon.
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post #8837 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Thanks for testing, brightness was set to 50 and it doesn't do the flashing squares when changing color like shown in this video at the end?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk



If yes that would indicate that there are indeed panels which don't have the problem at all. Maybe I got unlucky 2 times....
I haven't seen anything like that at all. I am gonna check the revenant and see if I see what others have posted.

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post #8838 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
Yeah the price performance curve of it vs the UBK90 is not in the Panasonic's favor. I got it at a lower price from someone that bought it but just loved his Oppo too much lol.

Both on doesn't work very well imo, just ends up being overly aggressive and dimming the picture. But if you want more luminance in your image you won't have to worry, the HDR optimizer comes in 4 presets:

Standard: the way it's supposed to look aka dark room viewing
Natural Light: tastefully increases luminance (think of it as Dolby Vision Cinema Home and Standard as DV Cinema). I use this during daytime as I have curtains.
Light Room: living room with no curtains
Bright Room: aka the sun is aiming directly at your tv mode

It's a bit ironic, the player is built for videophiles, but those that like a punchier, brighter image would benefit a lot from it as it has ways to seriously increase luminance without having to resort to vivid/dynamic modes, so you can still have at least some measure of accuracy.

For most people on the 8 series, the LG player is more than enough as the Panasonic doesn't really change anything for 1000 nits movies since LG changed the tone mapping on the 2018 sets. But for those on older Oleds this player is a godsend.
Great info bro, thanks a bunch!
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post #8839 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Thanks for testing, brightness was set to 50 and it doesn't do the flashing squares when changing color like shown in this video at the end?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk



If yes that would indicate that there are indeed panels which don't have the problem at all. Maybe I got unlucky 2 times....
Here is what I see on my C8. I don't see any of the grain or particles you see. I turned OLED up too 100 as well for the test

http://imgur.com/a/5RqZRzN

The only thing i see on playing it back is it's not as clean as it is in person which is probably due to my recording using my pixel 2 xl

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Last edited by Jrocker23; 11-29-2018 at 08:02 PM.
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post #8840 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 09:13 PM
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New owner here (65C8).

OMG I'm so happy I bought an OLED

(Watching the 4K channel right now on YouTube. Perhaps you guys looking for flaws should take a break and watch it too )
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post #8841 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post
For all of you new owners out there. I have two bits of advice.

Your infant panel will need hundreds of hours of viewing before they settle in to their permanent sensitivity. You may notice no detail near black. The fix for this is to raise the Brightness setting using a controlled method. As you get more viewing hours, you can decrease Brightness using the same method. Remember Brightness will need to be set for SDR, HDR and Dolby Vision. Here is a link to my simple brightness setting method.

Setting Blackness Levels (the easy way)

Try Technicolor(Expert) picture mode once you have upgraded your firmware to 04.10.xx. The picture looks very close to my dNice calibrated ISF Dark picture mode.

Enjoy your new set.

LeRoy
Great advice. I used the AVS 709 disc to check on the Technicolor update mode with the alternate white point and was amazed with the results. The C8 now aces all of the tests on there. Best results I have ever seen when compared to my previous LG B7A, Panasonic ST60 and even the Pioneer 500M with the 500M having the best previous results. Kudos to Technicolor and LG for this update. For those looking for settings put the set in Technicolor and keep on Warm 1. Adjust OLED light and gamma for bright rooms. Disclaimer: maybe the Technicolor settings fit my panel and not others so I would check your panel on the AVS 709 disc to verify. For those with calibration equipment it would be interesting to see some charts to see what Technicolor reads pre calibration.
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post #8842 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
That might be disturbing since it's been a given that US/KR/etc. displays won't accept EU firmware.
Yeah, might be a problem. I am sure, I can flash it via USB, like last time. Just need to find one!


EDIT: I totally apologize! I meant I used a Korean firmware on my US C8!

Last edited by calfcramp; 11-30-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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post #8843 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Glenee View Post
I use ExFat on a Large thumb drive formatted on a Mac and it seems to play fine on my C8.

I was using a Mac to format the USB drive in ExFAT so there could be an issue there. What I do know is that formatting the drive with NTFS worked for me.


Edit: Ah, I missed the part where you did the ExFAT formatting on a Mac. I will have to give ExFAT another try. Note that this LG webpage describing how to use a USB drive with the TV does not mention ExFAT but does mention FAT32 and NTFS as supported formats: https://www.lg.com/uk/support/soluti...s-flash-drives

Last edited by wfiveash; 11-30-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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post #8844 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Could you please try this test video I made? Download and play directly to the TV via USB.
(Technicolor or ISF dark at default settings, default brightness)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vp...tNQidkEZnmjGuV
Do some of the squares flash up, as in getting brighter than they should be when they change color?

I know there were some much more severe cases back then, which I couldn't reproduce. On mine the problem only shows up during specific scenes and it's quite rare.
I just want to figure out if all panels show this problem to some extent.
OK, have run your Oled_flashing_near-blacks_test_6minutes_(play at_default_settings).mkv, and it can be a little tricky as what you think may be a flash, is actually a colour change.
However it seems that only squares 4,5,6,7 do not flash. Square 4 was the trickiest, as it may have flashed a little and only occasionally if so.
The other squares were all pretty steady through colour change.
In general the flash was not bright.
I also ran your previous near_black_flicker_test.mkv, the one you posted some time back.
This showed some flashing only when the rectangle moved. There was no flashing when stationary. The rectangle is a dark grey colour.
Again, the flashing pixels were relatively few in number, located mainly at the bottom of the rectangle and a faint grey/yellow colour. When not flashing the pixels were black.
I also ran the Revenant where forum members iSeries and Adamd reported an issue with macroblocking.
I do not have the UHD disc, but the standard bluray at 1hr 17min 29secs and at around the fire scene in general showed absolutely no evidence of macroblocking. The picture was clear, clean and without artefact.

So maybe you can tell me what all this means, because I don't know.
I am not concerned however, because I do not have an issue when viewing real world video content, apart from some minor compression artefact occasionally.
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post #8845 of 22235 Old 11-29-2018, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
^im seriously tempted to get the panny...but waiting for the price to go down...and btw you answered a question I've been meaning to ask in regards leaving DTM off when paired to that player...thanks!
You know that is goin g to happen sooner or later.....
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post #8846 of 22235 Old 11-30-2018, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
Here is what I see on my C8. I don't see any of the grain or particles you see. I turned OLED up too 100 as well for the test

http://imgur.com/a/5RqZRzN

The only thing i see on playing it back is it's not as clean as it is in person which is probably due to my recording using my pixel 2 xl

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Your top-left square is very clearly flashing at the instant when it switches states. This is the problem! Thanks for your filming of it - it's very hard to capture.

_______________
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post #8847 of 22235 Old 11-30-2018, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
For movies I have it off, but that's mostly because I have the UB820, so I let the Panasonic do the tone mapping as I find it superior to LG's (near the start of Mad Max Fury Road, right before Immortan Joe releases the water, there is a shot of him in the cave where it's dim, with this 10-20% window that is the outside. The LG lowers the APL of the whole scene to retain the highlight of the sunlight coming in, while the the ub820 retains the highlight and color of the sky better, while maintaining the same luminance for the rest of the image). But this is an edge case, as Mad Max is a 4000 nits mastered movie. LG just needs to tweak it a bit to get it to avoid lowering APL on the difficult shots, but overall it's a great feature, even more so for games.

APL behavior aside, I’m curious how tone mapping in the player would even work. My understanding of tone mapping is that the movie metadata contains the peak luminance and the TV, knowing its limitations, will map the data to fit within its range respectively. How would the player know how to tone map unless it was given the TV’s max luminance based on the color volume in a scene? And even if it did have a basic luminance number, I would think the TV could better calculate the tone map based on the rest of the color volume data in the scene and what works best for the tv in that situation.

Is my understanding of tone mapping wrong?
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post #8848 of 22235 Old 11-30-2018, 03:01 AM
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Great advice. I used the AVS 709 disc to check on the Technicolor update mode with the alternate white point and was amazed with the results. The C8 now aces all of the tests on there. Best results I have ever seen when compared to my previous LG B7A, Panasonic ST60 and even the Pioneer 500M with the 500M having the best previous results. Kudos to Technicolor and LG for this update. For those looking for settings put the set in Technicolor and keep on Warm 1. Adjust OLED light and gamma for bright rooms. Disclaimer: maybe the Technicolor settings fit my panel and not others so I would check your panel on the AVS 709 disc to verify. For those with calibration equipment it would be interesting to see some charts to see what Technicolor reads pre calibration.

No,warm1 is WRONG. Too cool, as you can see.

Use warm2.
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post #8849 of 22235 Old 11-30-2018, 03:17 AM
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OK, have run your Oled_flashing_near-blacks_test_6minutes_(play at_default_settings).mkv, and it can be a little tricky as what you think may be a flash, is actually a colour change.
However it seems that only squares 4,5,6,7 do not flash. Square 4 was the trickiest, as it may have flashed a little and only occasionally if so.
The other squares were all pretty steady through colour change.
In general the flash was not bright.
I also ran your previous near_black_flicker_test.mkv, the one you posted some time back.
This showed some flashing only when the rectangle moved. There was no flashing when stationary. The rectangle is a dark grey colour.
Again, the flashing pixels were relatively few in number, located mainly at the bottom of the rectangle and a faint grey/yellow colour. When not flashing the pixels were black.
I also ran the Revenant where forum members iSeries and Adamd reported an issue with macroblocking.
I do not have the UHD disc, but the standard bluray at 1hr 17min 29secs and at around the fire scene in general showed absolutely no evidence of macroblocking. The picture was clear, clean and without artefact.

So maybe you can tell me what all this means, because I don't know.
I am not concerned however, because I do not have an issue when viewing real world video content, apart from some minor compression artefact occasionally.

Read my reply below for an explanation and check the recording from Jrocker23.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
Here is what I see on my C8. I don't see any of the grain or particles you see. I turned OLED up too 100 as well for the test

http://imgur.com/a/5RqZRzN

The only thing i see on playing it back is it's not as clean as it is in person which is probably due to my recording using my pixel 2 xl

Thanks for filming. All we want is to figure out if all panels behave like this and then maybe this could even get fixed if we get LGs attention. It's really hard to figure this out when people don't really understand the problem.


The intend of this test is to show that at certain near-black color transitions the TV causes some kind of overshoot, which will look like the square flashing up for like one frame when it changes color. For example the colors RGB 9 9 0 and 9 9 2 are very similar looking, it should be difficult to even tell them apart but yet changing between those two values the TV flashes up the pixels during change as seen in your recording.
iSeries likes this.

Last edited by jk82; 11-30-2018 at 03:21 AM.
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post #8850 of 22235 Old 11-30-2018, 05:23 AM
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So have it been confirmed that 4.10.15 resolves the issues that people seemed to notice with 4.10.05? I am on 3.00.90 and I keep rejecting the popups to install 4.10.05.

And on a weird note, I no longer see 4.10.15 as being available on LG's US website. It was there yesterday...
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