2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 308 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9211 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 08:59 AM
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been lurking this thread for a while and got the update on the west coast of Canada by changing the nsu mode in the service menu to engineering. just a quick thanks to the user(s) that posted that solution
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post #9212 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 09:06 AM
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Newest update fixes luminance fluctuations


TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch
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post #9213 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Thanks for the suggestions. As far as I can tell Passthrough is on. Here are some pics of the Denon setting.
Turn off i/p scaler. Passthrough is used when your AVR is off.

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post #9214 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwecker View Post
Update:
Somewhat underwhelming appointment. Guy came over this morning. I showed him the issue by putting up some content, he took pictures. He then went into the service menu and took more pictures of some entries and settings. He then disassembled the TV to take a picture of the Serial Number of the panel.

Upon asking, he acknowledged that he can see the problem, and he is indeed sure this is a uniformity issue. He will relay all information to LG. I will get notified as to what their decision will be - whether the issue is "within specs" or not. EDIT: If LG determines it is not within specs, I will receive a new panel. If not, nothing happens.

He did not really talk much or go into detail about the panel, the terminology and such. He said that he is simply there to observe and report - not to fix or to analyze.

All in all I will hopefully hear back from LG within the next 7 days and update everyone here when I receive more information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwecker View Post
Look at this. This is what I see during dark content. It’s awful and this has not been there from the beginning. I hope LG will resolve this.



EDIT: fixed words.
Update:
LG will replace my panel tomorrow. They have determined that his issue is not within specifications and that the whole panel needs to be replaced. They will do so under warranty, so no charge. A technicial will come by tomorrow morning and do this right in my living room.

I will update again once I have checked my new panel. Fingers crossed!
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post #9215 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Based on what you posted, it seems you're letting your Denon upscale the signal? I wouldn't do that. I would set the AVR to passthru video and let the TV do all the work. You might also get some weird green color stuff going on as I think DTV switched to RGB for all outputs, and the Denon can't handle that.
Thanks for the suggestions. As far as I can tell Passthrough is on. Here are some pics of the Denon setting.
Turn off video conversion. You want the video to be untouched.
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post #9216 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post
Well, after I got my old 64" plasma calibrated, I shut off auto-updates, and never updated again. Because at least early on, Samsung did change picture rendition (more than once), without changing the settings. In other words, the identical calibration settings gave a different picture. Thereby ruining the calibration. In the Samsung case, my memory is that they really were improving the picture, but it ruined accurate calibrations. I think most or all of that happened before my calibration (which was at least 2 years after the model was released), but not wanting to take chances, I just disabled firmware updates forever.


I'm concerned about LG potentially doing the same sort of well-meaning shenanigans.
I think Vincent answered our concerns in the video. No Change so I think your good to go.

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post #9217 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by felang View Post
Well, I have a theory about that... most review sites and enthusiasts recommend we shut off all processing and turn down brightness down to reference levels, while I agree with that for pristine sources, 90% of the time I'm sending my TV crap, and I find that it looks better and just "Pops" a lot more just using the TV's standard settings. I even prefer "Medium" white balance even though I understand that the image is intended to look a lot more warm. At the end of the day it's only a very small percentage of owners that visit these forums or strive for a very accurate image, 95% of people have an installer mount there TV, set up inputs and never look back...
I have always preferred to disable all artificial processing, regardless of the source, and just let my panel do its thing. I'm a bit of a purist in that but the bottom line is that if you are happy with your pq however you have your panel setup, then that's all that matters. To hell with what other folks say you "should" have. I don't bother to look for issues because all panels will have them. Some are easier to see than others. I've been very fortunate with my C8 because I have not experienced any of the issues that some are reporting here. If clouds are puffy, detailed, and white (no pink), colors look accurate to my eye, blacks are as dark as they should be, again with detail, no issues with the DV test videos, then I don't bother to look any further (no gray gradient test slides, YouTube vids, etc).
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post #9218 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Turn off video conversion. You want the video to be untouched.
Video conversion is only to overlay the GUI. It will be turned of anyway with UHD/HDR signals (at least in my Marantz).

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post #9219 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
Holy crap this really worked. My ARC worked flawlessly at first, until I switched out my UB820 for the Xbox One X, temporarily, to transfer data from the old Xbox. Once I went back it wouldn't work at all, even left them unplugged with the power off one night in an attempt to power cycle. But I didn't do the power on without cables, then off and plug in part. Now let's plug the other HDMI cables little by little and see if it holds.

Update: The problem is the Fire 4k pendant. Once I plugged it in and went back to Netflix it switched off ARC and wouldn't work. Unplugged Fire from the Denon and it immediately started working fine while Netflix was playing. Must be something to do with how the Fire stays in standby. Strange thing is the Fire was always plugged in from the start and it used to work without issues, even could use the LG remote to control the Amazon device. But after the Xbox One X thing... It doesn't; just bizarre. So for now just have to keep the Fire unplugged. Thanks a lot for the instructions on how to properly "reset/power cycle" HDMI handshakes.
Excellent! Happy to have helped!

You could try plugging the Fire TV into a different HDMI socket on your AVR if you have any spare. It's very finickity and might not kill ARC in a different socket. No promises but it's worth a try since I have a Fire 4k pendant (the Nov 2017 model) and it doesn't kill ARC for me.

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post #9220 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by J__Chris View Post
I'll check tonight.



Saw this changelog at LG per the link above...……



[04.10.15]

1. To improve that the subtitle is not displayed when HbbTV app in on. (except US Model)

2. Change HDR luminance curve. (webOS4.0 O18 Model)


It show up for you?


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post #9221 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:42 AM
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Vincent is awesome. What a blessing to have access to his knowledge. And props to LG for the update and their willingness to address this issue.
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post #9222 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyamPrakash View Post
We can do 1080p HDR PC in 10bit rite?

Correct me if I'm wrong

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If you let Windows manage the settings it uses 8-bit RGB with temporal dithering, which is in my experience even better than 10-bit and YUV 4:2:2.
Temporal dithering works since Windows 1803 and generates more "perceptual" colors by altering pixels very fast between different values.
This is virtually invisible to the user. I can only see it when I set the sharpness to 30 or higher.
Further advantages are that you can still use 4:4:4 (or even full RGB) and the input lag is lower than with 10-bit.
But if you want to change the bit depth, with Nvidia (and probably with AMD as well) you can manually change it to 10-bit or 12-bit in the control panel.
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post #9223 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
Newest update fixes luminance fluctuations

https://youtu.be/TthtKfCOzmU

TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch
Yeah so no other changes. I think the half dozen people saying the PQ is better now is all placebo effect.
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post #9224 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Markalark View Post
It show up for you?


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Yes. All good.
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post #9225 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 11:40 AM
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Yes. All good.
Thanks for letting me know! Well dang, that makes me even more depressed it hasn't come back available for me in Denver. Blah!
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post #9226 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyamPrakash View Post
We can do 1080p HDR PC in 10bit rite?
Correct me if I'm wrong
I think so, but it depends on your video, and you have not described the video mode you want to use. "1080p HDR 10bit" isn't enough info to describe the video mode.

example:
What frame rate?
What chroma subsampling? You missed whether it is 4:4:4/RGB, or 4:2:2, or 4:2:0, etc.

The restrictions are due to the 18Gbps limit of HDMI 2.0, and mainly affect the 4K50/60 resolution modes so for 1080p which is 1/4 of that, I think you're fine.

4K50/60 modes and bandwidths:
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:2:0 = 13.37Gbps
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:2:2 = 17.82Gbps. PS4Pro uses these modes to carry 8/10/12 bit content in a 12 bit container.
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:4:4 = 24.06Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • 12 bit (deep colour) RGB = 24.06Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • ----
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:2:0 = 11.14Gbps
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:2:2 = This mode is not supported by HDMI 2.0
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:4:4 = 20.05Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • 10 bit (deep colour) RGB = 20.05Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • ----
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:2:0 = 8.91Gbps
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:2:2 = This mode is not supported by HDMI 2.0
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:4:4 = 17.82Gbps
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) RGB = 17.82Gbps

So for 1080p60Hz, the fattest RGB 12bit mode above, at a guess would be 24.06 / 4 = 6.015Gbps and fine. But you will need to carry out tests. Let us know!
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post #9227 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 12:11 PM
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I use my C8 as a PC monitor as well...I've enabled autohide taskbar..

For screensaver the minimum wait time is 1 minute...

Has anybody here have successfully activated screensaver option to turn on after 30 seconds in windows 10..

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post #9228 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I think so, but it depends on your video, and you have not described the video mode you want to use. "1080p HDR 10bit" isn't enough info to describe the video mode.

example:
What frame rate?
What chroma subsampling? You missed whether it is 4:4:4/RGB, or 4:2:2, or 4:2:0, etc.

The restrictions are due to the 18Gbps limit of HDMI 2.0, and mainly affect the 4K50/60 resolution modes so for 1080p which is 1/4 of that, I think you're fine.

4K50/60 modes and bandwidths:
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:2:0 = 13.37Gbps
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:2:2 = 17.82Gbps. PS4Pro uses these modes to carry 8/10/12 bit content in a 12 bit container.
  • 12 bit (deep colour) 4:4:4 = 24.06Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • 12 bit (deep colour) RGB = 24.06Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • ----
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:2:0 = 11.14Gbps
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:2:2 = This mode is not supported by HDMI 2.0
  • 10 bit (deep colour) 4:4:4 = 20.05Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • 10 bit (deep colour) RGB = 20.05Gbps. Impossible with HDMI2.0
  • ----
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:2:0 = 8.91Gbps
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:2:2 = This mode is not supported by HDMI 2.0
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) 4:4:4 = 17.82Gbps
  • 8 bit (HDR10 not within spec, banding hell) RGB = 17.82Gbps

So for 1080p60Hz, the fattest RGB 12bit mode above, at a guess would be 24.06 / 4 = 6.015Gbps and fine. But you will need to carry out tests. Let us know!
Thanks...will surely test it out..

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post #9229 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Do you have a 4K Directv receiver?
I called and they said no. After two calls to DTV/ATT and another to Costco's (the VIP number doesn't work any more) a Costco VIP got back to me and as far as I can tell they have to come out and replace one of my existing wireless mini genies with a new wired mini genie along side the Main DVD/Genie. The Costco's VIP rep said she will get back to me.

ATT has destroyed the company.
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post #9230 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyamPrakash View Post
I use my C8 as a PC monitor as well...I've enabled autohide taskbar..

For screensaver the minimum wait time is 1 minute...
I would think 1 minute is no big deal compared to 30 seconds?
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post #9231 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
I called and they said no. After two calls to DTV/ATT and another to Costco's (the VIP number doesn't work any more) a Costco VIP got back to me and as far as I can tell they have to come out and replace one of my existing wireless mini genies with a new wired mini genie along side the Main DVD/Genie. The Costco's VIP rep said she will get back to me.

ATT has destroyed the company.
Yes, I'm a long time Directv subscriber and they really hosed me over with this same issue. I called them on another issue in August and they recommended upgrading my older receivers to the new mini-genies. I said I was good with that, as I was going to get a 4k TV in the next month or so and I wanted to be upgraded for that. Told the installer the same thing, and I agreed to pay $99 for the upgrade and signed on for 2 more years.

Turns out they didn't install a 4k receiver, which I found out after I got my 65 C8 and called them to get 4K "turned on." Apparently, they have a company rule that they don't install a 4k receiver unless you already have a 4k TV. But they didn't tell me that when I placed the order for the upgrade and the installer said nothing about that either. If they had informed me, I would have waited to upgrade my receiver and extend my contract.

Called them to talk about this and get the new 4K receiver and spoke to 5 different reps over 2 hours, all of whom told me something different. Finally ended up that they wanted to charge me $350 to come out and upgrade the receivers to 4K. So I passed.

I'm going to punish them somehow -- been a loyal customer since 1999 -- I just haven't figured out how yet.
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post #9232 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 02:21 PM
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The player has different tone mapping presets depending on your display:

Basic Luminance LCD and Projector (500 nits)
Middle or High Luminance LCD (1000 nits)
Super High Luminance LCD (1500 nits)
OLED (1000 nits)

As to why there are 2 settings for 1000 nits, maybe they are doing something slightly different for OLEDs, but I suspect it was done this way to make it easier for users. Also not all tvs do well what you described, prior to 2018 models LG Oleds would based their tone mapping on the mastering level of the content, instead of what it was actually outputting. So a movie mastered at 4000 nits that only went up to 600 nits at it's highest point, would still be tone mapped off the 4000 nit number, leading to an unnecessarily dim picture (I believe this is part of what you see on Vincent's 2017 Oled tone mapping comparison video). Also, some movies only say their mastering level only. Someone with more technical expertise in these areas can probably explain/correct anything I stated, but this is my understanding of how it works.
Ah interesting, good to know. So they are basing it on some assumed peak luminance amounts. I would still think theoretically the TV has much more information to do a better tone mapping implementation, since it could take into account knowledge about its ABL and what triggers it as well as limits based on the total color volume of the image rather than a fixed peak number. Whether LG's implementation does anything more (less?) than what the player is doing I have no idea. Of course if the player's tone mapping looks better to you then by all means that should be the one to use.
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post #9233 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoggorm View Post
My brand-new LG C8 will not play sound to my Denon AVR-X1400H via the HDMI ARC function.

How can I fix this?

I've made sure HDMI ARC is selected as Sound Out.

I've tried connecting another ARC capable TV to the Denon and then it works so I assume it's the LG TV that is the problem...

---

Sorry for the repost. I'm a bit frustrated... I tried to create a separate topic two days ago but it was moved by a moderator into this thread. Since then there has been nearly 200 (!) replies but neither deals with this issue.

It basically feels as if I ask my question quietly in a noisy bar...

Why can't I create my own topic that deals with the problem I'm facing? All the questions I ask is moved into a big "melting pot" where they disappear in the wilderness...

Thank you if you pay attention or even see or read this post and care to reply...
I see others have responded to this with some valuable information. The one thing I have noticed with ARC on my C8/Denon setup is that Simplink has to be ON on the TV in order for ARC to work, even if you don't care for the CEC functionality. I have turned off HDMI Control on the Denon but left ARC on, and with Simplink ON on the TV it works perfectly for me this way without CEC stuff getting in the way of my Harmony doing all the switching.
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post #9234 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pennywise666 View Post
I dont see how you can hit a wrong button when it's all explained what buttons you have to push. Only dont do it when you are crossed eyed or your hands are shaky.
I don't think accidental button presses or such is the main concern with what you are doing (although I am a fan of the usual disclaimer with any SM suggestions). I think installing engineering/dev builds of the firmware poses much more of a risk. Sometimes dev builds can make changes that don't ever make it into production, and then one day your set updates to a production firmware build after having the dev build on it...now there are some values or data stored in a format that the production build doesn't know how to read (since that code could have changed or been tweaked before final release) and they don't bother supporting some intermediate format they came up with while developing since it never got released. This could lead to instability/crashes/corrupt settings data. It happens all the time in software development.

So I say any post advising people they can get a newer update by switching to an engineering profile in the SM should be posted along with a huge warning that this could cause settings data corruption, instability, crashes, and/or brick their TV. And one thing you should almost always do after you've installed dev/beta builds and then switched to a release build, is reset all settings to factory. That should mitigate the corrupt data risk to some extent...of course that means losing all your settings.
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post #9235 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TallCoolOne View Post
And one thing you should almost always do after you've installed dev/beta builds and then switched to a release build, is reset all settings to factory. That should mitigate the corrupt data risk to some extent...of course that means losing all your settings.
That's very good advice. When 4.10.20 is released on the LG website I will be comparing LG's file with that which I downloaded last Friday to see if it's different.

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post #9236 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark1000 View Post
Turn off i/p scaler. Passthrough is used when your AVR is off.

Mark

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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Turn off video conversion. You want the video to be untouched.

As I understand it, not all Denon 4k AVR are video processors. Some are merely 4k enablers:


https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answe...5594/related/1


For instance, my Denon AVR S730H does not have a i/p scaler or video conversion setting in the Setup. It does have a 4k Signal format setting for either standard or enhanced to allow the passage of proper 4k signal through HDMI ports depending on your HDMI cable and TV monitor capabilities.


http://manuals.denon.com/AVRS730H/NA...SYsvvlcemq.php


Someone please correct me if I am not understanding this right.

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post #9237 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark1000 View Post
Turn off i/p scaler. Passthrough is used when your AVR is off. Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Turn off video conversion. You want the video to be untouched.

Turning off Video Conversion disabled i/p Scaler. Now C8 shows 16:9 - 1080i - PCM in the upper left.

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post #9238 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Turning off Video Conversion disabled i/p Scaler. Now C8 shows 16:9 - 1080i - PCM in the upper left.
Yes, Video Conversion is the parent option, and if you turn that if i'll disable on the on-screen menus AND all video processing. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater

But to get the Denon not to scale the video and leave it as 1080i, all you need to do is:
  • Video Conversion ON (to get menus and onscreen volume)
  • i/p Scaler OFF (to disable processing)
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post #9239 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by schwecker View Post
Update:
Somewhat underwhelming appointment. Guy came over this morning. I showed him the issue by putting up some content, he took pictures. He then went into the service menu and took more pictures of some entries and settings. He then disassembled the TV to take a picture of the Serial Number of the panel.

Upon asking, he acknowledged that he can see the problem, and he is indeed sure this is a uniformity issue. He will relay all information to LG. I will get notified as to what their decision will be - whether the issue is "within specs" or not. EDIT: If LG determines it is not within specs, I will receive a new panel. If not, nothing happens.

He did not really talk much or go into detail about the panel, the terminology and such. He said that he is simply there to observe and report - not to fix or to analyze.

All in all I will hopefully hear back from LG within the next 7 days and update everyone here when I receive more information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwecker View Post
Look at this. This is what I see during dark content. It’s awful and this has not been there from the beginning. I hope LG will resolve this.



EDIT: fixed words.
Update:
LG will replace my panel tomorrow. They have determined that his issue is not within specifications and that the whole panel needs to be replaced. They will do so under warranty, so no charge. A technicial will come by tomorrow morning and do this right in my living room.

I will update again once I have checked my new panel. Fingers crossed!
Good luck. I have a tech coming on Friday to assess my panel. Not sure why he had to take it apart to see the serial number as it’s in the menu.
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post #9240 of 21685 Old 12-04-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Turning off Video Conversion disabled i/p Scaler. Now C8 shows 16:9 - 1080i - PCM in the upper left.
So your set is receiving a 1080i broadcast signal.
Here are some pictures of a CNN 1080i broadcast on my C8
Some of the closeups look good while the rest looks soft, unfocused, blurry IMO.
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