2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 456 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13651 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 10:14 AM
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Hi Pwiss,
Have you ever gone into your xfinitys settings and chosen to choose the highest quality picture possible? You can actually get Xfinity in 1080p if you choose that. The xfinity workers who set it up usually don't do it right.
I actually have the Xfinity 4K box so I have the option of outputting the signal in 4K. That being said Comcast is actually sending out almost all of their channels in 720p. In our area they only leave the local NBC and PBS stations at 1080i. I know this because I have a Tivo box on another TV in the house and it is set to native which lets me know exactly what I am getting from Comcast.

On my 65C8 I tried outputting 4K, 1080p and 720p from the box. Not sure what the box is doing to upscale to 4K but the TV recognizes it as BT2020 and the picture looks unnatural. The 1080p upscale out of the box is good. I choose to output at 720p because that is the format I am mainly receiving and the LG's processing is the better than Arris's processing.

When I want to watch any local channel I choose OTA and each channel is better than what Comcast is sending me.
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post #13652 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 10:21 AM
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You talking about Kimmyang's post? No, he is saying he is not getting sound at all from the smart apps, which from his set up looks like AVR isn't set to TV input from ARC. He no longer has optical hooked up. As I said, I think it is that he doesn't have AVR input changed to TV in his Watch Smart TV activity. Just not sure why he said he is getting "lossy" Atmos sound from Blue Ray and other components now. To have it limited to lossy he would need to be going through his TV to the AVR from the blue ray, etc, but then it wouldn't make sense that he was getting sound from them, but not from the internal apps.
Hi,
Thanks for the response! I read from LG that you can get Dolby TrueHD on the LG 65C8PUA on all hdmi's except HDMI (ARC), which if true you cannot get no lossy Atmos. The rep also said there isn't a 2018 tv or prior that can support Dolby TrueHD Atmos. It is important to note my 4k blu ray player is an xbox one x, so I could have interpreted it incorrectly because my receiver does say Atmos/PCM when I play it.
Does yours say that you have a non lossy Atmos format? If so which 4k blu ray player do you have. I'm thinking of possibly getting one in the next year if xbox doesn't come out with a patch to support Dolby Vision on their blu ray player. Thanks.
Also is there any talk of LG updating their firmware for EArc in perhaps LG Oled tv's. I invested in Atmos speakers and I would like to get good use of them!

Last edited by [email protected]; 03-23-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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post #13653 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pwiss View Post
I actually have the Xfinity 4K box so I have the option of outputting the signal in 4K. That being said Comcast is actually sending out almost all of their channels in 720p. In our area they only leave the local NBC and PBS stations at 1080i. I know this because I have a Tivo box on another TV in the house and it is set to native which lets me know exactly what I am getting from Comcast.

On my 65C8 I tried outputting 4K, 1080p and 720p from the box. Not sure what the box is doing to upscale to 4K but the TV recognizes it as BT2020 and the picture looks unnatural. The 1080p upscale out of the box is good. I choose to output at 720p because that is the format I am mainly receiving and the LG's processing is the better than Arris's processing.

When I want to watch any local channel I choose OTA and each channel is better than what Comcast is sending me.
Do you know if its worth getting the Xfinity 4k box? I heard you can only get it if they bring it over to you so I'm assuming there is a fee for it. I will already get Dolby Vision through the Smart home hub now that it works well but I'm wondering if there is any talk of 4k content that is more regular than perhaps the Olympics for on demand content.

Kim
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post #13654 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:01 AM
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Yes, if you have ARC enabled then you will get lossy Atmos via the SmartApps from the C8 to the receiver. If you don't have ARC enabled and attempt to do that with an optical cable, you won't get Atmos. Optical is a setting on the C8 and I use it. To get lossless Atmos, you will need to go thru the receiver with an external device such as an ATV4k, Roku, etc. so the receiver can properly decode the audio streams. ARC currently is limited to lossy Atmos only on most systems due to the HDMI chipset versions. eARC (part of the HDMI 2.1 chipset hardware) is supposed to deliver lossless Atmos as well as HD Audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, etc). The Lindy adapters do seem to work well for most folks in disabling the CEC commands without affecting ARC, but not in all cases.
I have actually thought about using an external device, since my 7.4.1 Klipsch system is worth it, but it seems like all devices are a "trade off". If you find one that gets ATMOS, it doesn't get dolby vision, etc. If anyone knows of a device that gets HD10, Dolby Vision AND ARC, please let me know! Also, from what I read, the A4K does not get trueHD ATMOS either.

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post #13655 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by joyceS View Post
I have actually thought about using an external device, since my 7.4.1 Klipsch system is worth it, but it seems like all devices are a "trade off". If you find one that gets ATMOS, it doesn't get dolby vision, etc. If anyone knows of a device that gets HD10, Dolby Vision AND ARC, please let me know! Also, from what I read, the A4K does not get trueHD ATMOS either.
My understanding is that the ARV4k does send lossless Atmos is the source is encoded for it. Can you tell the difference in audio fidelity between lossy and lossless Atmos?

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
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post #13656 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:24 AM
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Hi,
Thanks for the response! I read from LG that you can get Dolby TrueHD on the LG 65C8PUA on all hdmi's except HDMI (ARC), which if true you cannot get no lossy Atmos. The rep also said there isn't a 2018 tv or prior that can support Dolby TrueHD Atmos. It is important to note my 4k blu ray player is an xbox one x, so I could have interpreted it incorrectly because my receiver does say Atmos/PCM when I play it.
Does yours say that you have a non lossy Atmos format? If so which 4k blu ray player do you have. I'm thinking of possibly getting one in the next year if xbox doesn't come out with a patch to support Dolby Vision on their blu ray player. Thanks.
Also is there any talk of LG updating their firmware for EArc in perhaps LG Oled tv's. I invested in Atmos speakers and I would like to get good use of them!
For this part, "I read from LG that you can get Dolby TrueHD on the LG 65C8PUA on all hdmi's except HDMI (ARC),", what are you saying? HDMI sound out from your TV to your AVR will provide sound only through the ARC and it will be lossy ATMOS. The other HDMI connections on your LG would not provide any sound to your AVR.

Is your Xbox connected to the AVR or to your LGC8? If connected to your AVR it will provide whatever sound Xbox is able to decode. I don't know what Dolby Atmos xbox is able to provide.

If your Xbox is connected to the TV instead, then it would be limited to lossy Atmos back to your AVR.

But you said you were getting sound from your blue ray, but not from your internal apps, which makes me think you must have your blue ray connected to the AVR, but I don't know your setup.

I don't think my AVR distinguishes the type of ATMOS in its display. I know my LG 4K player provides full non lossy Atmos.
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post #13657 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:29 AM
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Do you know if its worth getting the Xfinity 4k box? I heard you can only get it if they bring it over to you so I'm assuming there is a fee for it. I will already get Dolby Vision through the Smart home hub now that it works well but I'm wondering if there is any talk of 4k content that is more regular than perhaps the Olympics for on demand content.
I got mine for no extra charge so if you can get it for free you might as well. Currently I am watching zero 4K content through it but I at least have it if Comcast finally decides to move forward with some 4K programming. I know they did the Olympics but that was before I signed up.
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post #13658 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
After updating. Gamma by default in 2.2, brightness adjusted correctly, the Ire 5 shows a gamma 2.9 until it drops to 2.3 in the 25th. Can someone explain to me, what are these types of LG thinking about ?????? I have enough knowledge and material to repair this, but most people do not. Do you spend a lot of money on a TV to see crushed blacks ????? if you do not adjust the gamma correctly, after the update, the image is a disaster, no detail is distinguished in the shadows. I can not believe that LG has done this.
They’re thinking a lot of people see banding in dark scenes and others have flashing and others experience brighter sides of the screen with dark uniformity performance. They’re basically telling the black levels to bypass the trouble spots, it seems. The panel variance has been problematic with the 8 series it seems, even though not everyone has experienced those problems... but certainly more than enough have.

So their thinking was, “Oh, crap... we have to figure out a firmware based solution for this. No way are we going to replace all those panels!”

This is their solution. Darken the ‘brighter’ blacks that cause gray stuff to appear or act as a catalyst for the flashing.

It’s a little disappointing but I’d honestly rather have this right now than my ‘half the screen is brightet with certain black levels’ than I had experienced.

Goodfellas dark opening was a banding nigntmare before... but not anymore. That’s just one example.

One scene in Lady Bird though, on the flip side of this coin, where the main character and her boyfriend are laying on the ground in the evening, is crushed to kingdom come.

Overall, for me, it’s the lesser of two evils. I was honestly thinking of just moving the C8 to the bedroom and replacing it in my man cave with a Vizio P series. That’s how much the prior performance bothered me.
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post #13659 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:49 AM
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Has anyone in Canada received the new firmware update?
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post #13660 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pwiss View Post
I got mine for no extra charge so if you can get it for free you might as well. Currently I am watching zero 4K content through it but I at least have it if Comcast finally decides to move forward with some 4K programming. I know they did the Olympics but that was before I signed up.
Unfortunately Comcast doesn't have the infrastructure in place to do it to the same extent satellite tv can. They don't even have a dedicated 1080p channel so it tells me that they won't be able to ever handle the bandwidth for broadcast.
I should definitely check it out though.

Kim
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post #13661 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 11:53 AM
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For this part, "I read from LG that you can get Dolby TrueHD on the LG 65C8PUA on all hdmi's except HDMI (ARC),", what are you saying? HDMI sound out from your TV to your AVR will provide sound only through the ARC and it will be lossy ATMOS. The other HDMI connections on your LG would not provide any sound to your AVR.

Is your Xbox connected to the AVR or to your LGC8? If connected to your AVR it will provide whatever sound Xbox is able to decode. I don't know what Dolby Atmos xbox is able to provide.

If your Xbox is connected to the TV instead, then it would be limited to lossy Atmos back to your AVR.

But you said you were getting sound from your blue ray, but not from your internal apps, which makes me think you must have your blue ray connected to the AVR, but I don't know your setup.

I don't think my AVR distinguishes the type of ATMOS in its display. I know my LG 4K player provides full non lossy Atmos.
Hi, everything is connected to the AVR. I believe that article was actually talking about 2017 LG tvs. It came out on March 26th 2018. Here is the link: https://hdguru.com/understanding-dol...porting-lg-tv/
I tried the xbox one x and I ended up getting DTHD. I clicked on the surround sound button and voila, Atmos/DTHD. So glad you are right Ron! Thanks for pushing me to look around and figure it out. I tested it on Infinity War and it looks great.
Now I'm hoping Microsoft comes with a firmware update to get Dolby Vision on the blu ray player. Right now my options are HDR 10 and lossless Atmos, or Vudu with Dolby Vision and lossy Atmos. On a more pricey tv like the C8 the difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision does make a noticeable difference so I might get one.
Ron, do you have a recommendation for a 4k blu ray player in case it comes to that? You said you have an LG?

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post #13662 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 12:21 PM
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I was hoping C8 Prices would have dropped more by now, but I guess this might happen when C9 becomes available in the uk.

I was thinking about buying a 55inch C8 for my brother. However, Just seen a 55inch C7 on ebay uk for £499 which is calibrated and seller states has good uniformity. I might consider it, but have to travel to West London as it is collection only.

What are c8 prices like in usa?
Its a race to zero thru out the USA, prices have never been this low......
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post #13663 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 12:22 PM
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So can you tell me exactly how I should be setting my items up to get non lossy Atmos. Everything is connected to my AV Receiver. Do you know if Atmos PCM is lossy Atmos?
No, connect Xbox to your AVR. I have no idea how your system was set up. and it was confusing your bringing up "I read from LG that you can get Dolby TrueHD on the LG 65C8PUA on all hdmi's except HDMI (ARC)."

I am thinking your Atmos/PCM output is likely lossless, but I am no expert. googling Atmos/PCM I see,

"With the introduction of Dolby Atmos, we have expanded this technology to support
encoding of Dolby Atmos content as lossless pulse-code modulation (PCM) audio."
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post #13664 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 12:39 PM
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Has anyone in Canada received the new firmware update?
If you like ruin your shadow detail, then it´s available for download (C8):
https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/sup...ftwareFirmware

I don´t get it that download latest firmware and after that re-calibrate it (with straight gamma).
After that, what is difference to earlier state?
That "inverse BT.1886" is supposed mask that problem.

Not going to update, I have good panel without banding and not noticed macroblocking with real material.
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post #13665 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 01:41 PM
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Has anyone in Canada received the new firmware update?
If you like ruin your shadow detail, then it´s available for download (C8):
https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/sup...ftwareFirmware

I don´t get it that download latest firmware and after that re-calibrate it (with straight gamma).
After that, what is difference to earlier state?
That "inverse BT.1886" is supposed mask that problem.

Not going to update, I have good panel without banding and not noticed macroblocking with real material.
I don’t think absolutes should be applied here. It’s unfortunate it’s come to this, but the picture is better for some people, worse for others.
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post #13666 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 01:57 PM
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Okay, I took delivery of my 77C8 two days ago but I had to leave for Minneapolis immediately afterwards so I just started playing with it last night. I'm going to give you a link to some of my first impressions that I gave to my fellow-members on the Blu-ray PQ Discussion Thread. I should add here that the set was manufactured in November of 2018 and it came with the new Firmware Update. (When was it actually released?)

When I refer, in my linked post, to the 940D, I'm talking about a 2016 Sony LCD/LED (for those who may not know). The processor for up-scaling is definitely better on the Sony, though "Dish Network" (which I use) may be another factor for the less-than-stellar satellite broadcasts.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post57792280

BTW, so far I really like the LG UBK90 UHD Blu-ray player. It loads fast and has remarkable PQ, both with HDR10 and Dolby Vision.
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post #13667 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:03 PM
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If you like ruin your shadow detail, then it´s available for download (C8):
https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/sup...ftwareFirmware

I don´t get it that download latest firmware and after that re-calibrate it (with straight gamma).
After that, what is difference to earlier state?
That "inverse BT.1886" is supposed mask that problem.

Not going to update, I have good panel without banding and not noticed macroblocking with real material.
Atmos PCM is lossy per what I read. However all is good since I got the Atmos/DTHD. You responded to me while I was editing what I originally wrote. Any 4k dvd player recommendations?

Kim
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post #13668 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:17 PM
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Any 4k dvd player recommendations?

I have the LG UBK90 UHD/Blu-ray player which is HDR10/DV capable. It doesn't have all the other bells and whistles that the higher end Panasonic UHD player has but it works beautifully with my C8 and costs a lot less than the Panasonic, which is an excellent UHD/Blu-ray player.
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post #13669 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
After updating. Gamma by default in 2.2, brightness adjusted correctly, the Ire 5 shows a gamma 2.9 until it drops to 2.3 in the 25th. Can someone explain to me, what are these types of LG thinking about ?????? I have enough knowledge and material to repair this, but most people do not. Do you spend a lot of money on a TV to see crushed blacks ????? if you do not adjust the gamma correctly, after the update, the image is a disaster, no detail is distinguished in the shadows. I can not believe that LG has done this.
Yep you are correct.
I reset my C8 to factory specs. Made a new meter profile (WRGB), measured default and also measured the GS set OLED to 25 turned off all enhancements. Y (nits) drops like a rock between 0 and then slowly raises back where the Y value is close at IRE30. What that means is black crush.
Also I saw a fairly large increase in saturation, not good.
I can understand why some member posted after the update, the picture reminds him of the Kuro's. Over saturated.
Ran a 26 PT rolling GS using Calman and then used Lightspace to do a 9261 PT profile 3DLUT. Results very good as expected, back to where it was before the update.

ss
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post #13670 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:44 PM
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Yep you are correct.
I reset my C8 to factory specs. Made a new meter profile (WRGB), measured default and also measured the GS set OLED to 25 turned off all enhancements. Y (nits) drops like a rock between 0 and then slowly raises back where the Y value is close at IRE30. What that means is black crush.
Also I saw a fairly large increase in saturation, not good.
I can understand why some member posted after the update, the picture reminds him of the Kuro's. Over saturated.
Ran a 26 PT rolling GS using Calman and then used Lightspace to do a 9261 PT profile 3DLUT. Results very good as expected, back to where it was before the update.

ss
But the real question is. . . after it's "back to where it was before the update". . . are the flashing black macroblocks also back to being as prevalent as they were before the update?

Did you suffer from the chrominance overshoot/flashing near-block macroblocks issue?
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post #13671 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:49 PM
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Yes, sort of. The C8 can not send Atmos via ARC from the SmartApps. That's the current limitation of ARC.
Careful, that's ambiguous

The C8 can send lossy Atmos via ARC from the SmartApps via DD+ streams.
The C8 can not send lossless Atmos via ARC from the SmartApps. That's the current limitation of ARC.

ps. Ditto the question to SillySally. Now that you have re-calibrated, what is the difference you are seeing for the near-black issue?

I'm seeing a large improvement in the accuracy of dark colours as I mentioned in earlier posts with pictures. LG has worked hard and introduced more and better dithering of the near-black colours. JK82 also pointed this out. It's certainly not just a different gamma curve, as repeatedly explained, if it was just that we'd have had the update in the middle of January.
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post #13672 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:56 PM
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But the real question is. . . after it's "back to where it was before the update". . . are the flashing black macroblocks also back to being as prevalent as they were before the update?

Did you suffer from the chrominance overshoot/flashing near-block macroblocks issue?
Very little artifacts next to none. That's why I use LightSpace to run a 9461 point profile (3DLUT) not Calman. I do use Calman to run the 1DLUT grayscale 26 point rolling.
Imho Calman and some streaming video is to blame for the artifacts.

ss
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post #13673 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Very little artifacts next to none. That's why I use LightSpace to run a 9461 point profile (3DLUT) not Calman. I do use Calman to run the 1DLUT grayscale 26 point rolling.

Imho Calman and some streaming video is to blame for the artifacts.



ss
How did u go back to the prior firmware?

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post #13674 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmane View Post
How did u go back to the prior firmware?

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Can't go back, needs a full 3DLUT calibration using LightSpace.
If just using mostly defaults not calibrated, then do not update the LG firmware.

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post #13675 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Careful, that's ambiguous

The C8 can send lossy Atmos via ARC from the SmartApps via DD+ streams.
The C8 can not send lossless Atmos via ARC from the SmartApps. That's the current limitation of ARC.
I forgot to add lossless to that! My bad. Thanks for catching that .
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post #13676 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Imho Calman and some streaming video is to blame for the artifacts.
I'd wager that the vast majority of those who noticed the flashing black macroblocks own neither a meter, nor calman. I know I didn't, yet I clearly had the flashing near-black macroblocking.

It seems odd to blame Calman.

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Can't go back, needs a full 3DLUT calibration using LightSpace.
I thought I read that you can revert to a prior firmware if you use the Android app.
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post #13677 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
I'd wager that the vast majority of those who noticed the flashing black macroblocks own neither a meter, nor calman. I know I didn't, yet I clearly had the flashing near-black macroblocking.



It seems odd to blame Calman.







I thought I read that you can revert to a prior firmware if you use the Android app.
Yea I just read about using an android app and having the prior firmware downloaded on a USB drive

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post #13678 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:23 PM
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So I had my TV calibrated by Chad B and still have all the settings from that calibration..If I downloaded this update and put those settings back in would it be close to what I have it now or does this firmware update change everything so dramatically that those settings wouldn't be accurate anymore?
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post #13679 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:25 PM
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Mr. Tickle, I hope you don't mind that I yanked this from the calibration thread to follow up over here lest I muddy that thread with non-calibration talk. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
The Input label=PC setting turns on 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling if you are feeding it YCrCb.
But if you're feeding it RGB, this is equivalent to 4:4:4 but in the RGB space, it should always be "High", so I don't know what happens if you do not set the input label in those cases. Nothing wrong with setting it to PC just to be safe IMHO. But check it's saying "High". If you can't change it or it is greyed, this means you are sending the TV YCrCb and not RGB.
Sorry to be dense. . . but if I have my Apple TV set to output 4:4:4 YCbCr, I should then actually change the HDMI input label on the TV to "PC" and make sure black level is set to High in the TV's Picture Mode, Picture Options settings?
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post #13680 of 21636 Old 03-23-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
Mr. Tickle, I hope you don't mind that I yanked this from the calibration thread to follow up over here lest I muddy that thread with non-calibration talk. . .
Not a problem and there's no such thing as a silly question, my knowledge is from the fine people here.

Quote:
Sorry to be dense. . . but if I have my Apple TV set to output 4:4:4 YCbCr, I should then actually change the HDMI input label on the TV to "PC"
Yes, if you don't change the label, the TV won't decode 4:4:4 YCbCr properly.

Quote:
and make sure black level is set to High in the TV's Picture Mode, Picture Options settings?
You may not need to, that was my idea of a "backstop" arrangement, but I think black level option may be disabled if you are sending the TV any form of YCbCr .
The black level option is for when you are sending the TV RGB, to tell it whether the video signal within the RGB is
"full/high" (0-255)
or
"limited/low" (16-235).
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