2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 458 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13711 of 21625 Old 03-23-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You would think they would, the good news is most updates do not effect the picture settings.


.

Looks good after calibration!
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post #13712 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
...I'm seeing a large improvement in the accuracy of dark colours as I mentioned in earlier posts with pictures...
I saw picture about that improved dark colour detail, is that took after re-calibration?

I have ability to do manual calibration, but my´n question was is there difference with calibrated (straight gamma) 04.10.15 and 04.10.31 ?
If so, what that is?

Read about how to get back to earlier firmware so I could do that, but because calibration for me is not just start autocal and correcting gamma at low end from 2.8 to 2.2 sounds, well not so simple.
Adjusting just brightness...hmm, how about black, is it still 0cdm2 ?

Had many sets but this kind of firmware update is first for me, so I´m also little confused.

And for guy who wrote that this is not for calibration, yes there is calibration thread which is full of autocal chatting, it´s waste of time to ask something about doing that manually.
And this case should interest also those who have not calibrated their set or are not even going to do that, this update change picture, specially shadow detail so lot.

Here´s picture downloaded from AVForum, green is calibrated gamma and yellow is just after new firmware without re-calibration (also wonder if it same for warm1(metameric corrected) and warm2 (D65) are those both rui..."improved" ?):
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post #13713 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
I saw picture about that improved dark colour detail, is that took after re-calibration?
No, I just took that picture after getting the update .

Quote:
I have ability to do manual calibration, but my´n question was is there difference with calibrated (straight gamma) 04.10.15 and 04.10.31 ?
If so, what that is?
Don't know yet for myself, but SillySally seems happy after he has re-done his calibration.

Quote:
Read about how to get back to earlier firmware so I could do that, but because calibration for me is not just start autocal and correcting gamma at low end from 2.8 to 2.2 sounds, well not so simple.
Agreed. As long as your phone can run the app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ure.activities) and it controls the TV via Wifi, you can install any firmware which is for your region of TV via USB in the normal way (LG_DTV directory on a USB stick) without the TV refusing because it's the wrong version number.
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post #13714 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will ) is this:


computer levels are 0 - 255 (black at 0, white at 255)
Yes, this is "Full Range" and "Black level=High"

Quote:
video levels are 16-235 (black at 16, white at 235)
Yes, this is "Limited Range" and "Black level=Low". Sometimes there is content which is "above white" or "whiter than white", in the range 235-255. In the PS3 and PS4 menus, Sony calls this "Super White".

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I have my ATV4k set to YCbCr and 4:2:0. PQ is gorgeous.
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post #13715 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
I saw picture about that improved dark colour detail, is that took after re-calibration?
No, I just took that picture after getting the update [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG].

Quote:
I have ability to do manual calibration, but my´n question was is there difference with calibrated (straight gamma) 04.10.15 and 04.10.31 ?
If so, what that is?
Don't know yet for myself, but SillySally seems happy after he has re-done his calibration.

Quote:
Read about how to get back to earlier firmware so I could do that, but because calibration for me is not just start autocal and correcting gamma at low end from 2.8 to 2.2 sounds, well not so simple.
Agreed. As long as your phone can run the app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ure.activities) and it controls the TV via Wifi, you can install any firmware which is for your region of TV via USB in the normal way (LG_DTV directory on a USB stick) without the TV refusing because it's the wrong version number.
So what is the reason you need that app for rolling back firmware? Sorry for my ignorance. I do have .15 on a flash drive in the folder. I'd like to see or hear about the process of rolling back if you would be so kind!
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post #13716 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MeganElisabeth View Post
I’m getting lossless atmos with the ub820 blu day player connected via hdmi to my C8 with cec enabled and bitstream right? It shows as so just paranoid with all of this lossless atmos talk. Lol
I would check the receiver information. It should say something along the lines of Atmos/DTHD for lossless Atmos. Atmos can be produced through Dolby Digital + or Dolby True HD. Dolby Digital + is compressed, while Dolby True HD is not. Obviously you want the uncompressed version. Hope this helps. I've gotten to know too much trying to figure out how to get lossless Atmos.


https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-dolby-truehd/

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post #13717 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Viking 29 View Post
... I'd like to see or hear about the process of rolling back if you would be so kind!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/fla...#post-26963675
You just install older version with that app and usb stick where is older fw.
btw, at least I don´t have that older version with my PC and LG took it off from web.

So at this point I would turn auto update off from TV until we get more information what that update really do or not to do.

And I meant j82k´s picture:
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post #13718 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking 29 View Post
... I'd like to see or hear about the process of rolling back if you would be so kind!
https://www.avforums.com/threads/fla...#post-26963675
You just install older version with that app and usb stick where is older fw.
btw, at least I don´t have that older version with my PC and LG took it off from web.

So at this point I would turn auto update off from TV until we get more information what that update really do or not to do.
I have the US version if anyone needs it
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post #13719 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:52 AM
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So I messed around with the android app for downgrading and it seems super easy to do! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys!
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post #13720 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I would check the receiver information. It should say something along the lines of Atmos/DTHD for lossless Atmos. Atmos can be produced through Dolby Digital + or Dolby True HD. Dolby Digital + is compressed, while Dolby True HD is not. Obviously you want the uncompressed version. Hope this helps. I've gotten to know too much trying to figure out how to get lossless Atmos.


https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-dolby-truehd/
Thanks so very very much for the response! I was almost positive I was as it says TrueHD when selecting and showing Dolby Atmos as the sound mode. Feels good to have it reconfirmed. (:
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post #13721 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post
After the recent FW update I’m also experiencing a bit of black crush. Granted, I don’t have it calibrated or a meter but it was noticeable. Prior, I really liked the RTings settings and still use them. For those who have done the update, to get it back as close as it was before, do I just bump the brightness from 50 to 52-53? Any other settings I should mess with and would this be for all content, HDR, DV, SDR?
I do have the Disney WOW disc if that would help, I just really don’t know how to use it.
Thanks!
My question for everyone who had their tvs calibrated by a professional is:
1) Do you guys have to repay the calibration expert the same amount as before to get this fixed? What is the version number of this firmware update.
2) Do you guys know if there will be more updates like this? I'm kinda hoping for an eArc firmware update in the future since Sony is doing it and my receiver will be updated. I'm guessing if I choose to install the update for eArc if it happens then my picture will change.


I've been wanting to calibrate my tv but after reading these posts I'm having second thoughts. I need a calibration on all three hdr levels - sdr, hdr, and dolby vision. I also want a gaming calibration too and for sdr I want it calibrated for a brighter setting as well as dark even though I can easily control my brightness with shades and with Philips Hue lights.
I have been talking to someone who is ISF certified but he recommends me waiting until I have 200 hours on my tv. I should have it soon since its March Madness! However I think it is in the 500 range for him to do all of it. He seems legit and can autocal LG or do it manually.

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post #13722 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Hello? DV is Dolby Vision. The UBK90 is HDR10 and Dolby Vision capable. You can't beat the price of the UBK90 for a UHD HDR10/Dolby Vision player unless you go up to the Panasonic model, which is really good but really expensive.
Whoops. My bad. I had a typo when I googled it and a different one came up. Sounds good then! I might get it if my Dolby Vision update for Blu Ray doesn't happen. I do hear the upscaling on the XBox isn't as good as some of the 4k players though

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post #13723 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Whoops. My bad. I had a typo when I googled it and a different one came up. Sounds good then! I might get it if my Dolby Vision update for Blu Ray doesn't happen. I do hear the upscaling on the XBox isn't as good as some of the 4k players though

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post #13724 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 08:31 AM
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Do you guys have to repay the calibration expert the same amount as before to get this fixed? What is the version number of this firmware update
I have also addition question for that...
If LG meant gamma curve act like it acts with 04.10.31 firmware, then how are you going to calibrate it?
Straight power gamma?

This one is very special case, I think also pro calibrators are somewhat confused how this should handle.
There is standars where to calibrate, that one differ from that.

I just can imagine how films like Arrival look with that new firmware without any calibration. There´s plenty of dark shadows which you cant see anymore with default brightness setting.

Technicolor expert is very close to what picture should be (with fw 04.10.15), personally I think for most of users there´s not even necessary to make any further adjustments.
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post #13725 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 08:33 AM
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https://youtu.be/F1Lt43-9lmY

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The difference in color doesn't bother me because its just a slight color accuracy issue that wouldn't be noticed without a reference point. Its more that streaming Dolby Vision on my tv is better displayed than 4k hdr10 on the disc, and it actually isn't the colors.

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post #13726 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will ) is this:


computer levels are 0 - 255 (black at 0, white at 255)

video levels are 16-235 (black at 16, white at 235)


I have my ATV4k set to YCbCr and 4:2:0. PQ is gorgeous.
I too have my Apple TV 4K set to YCbCr and 4:2:0 (did have it at 4:4:4) and it looks quite good.

I noticed after the firmware update that some shadow details seemed to be lost, so I have nudged up brightness quite a bit from 50 to 55 without making black glow at all and I can now see Darth Vader's helmet details.

However, that's at SDR, gamma 2.2, and the TV's black level setting set to "low"

Having read here yesterday that YCbCr uses the full range of values (0-255), I set the TV to black level of "high" which then caused me to have to both set gamma to bt.1886 and lower brightness all the way to 39 in order to get rid of "black glow." With bt.1886 though, I have a lot less shadow detail. So I went back to "low/2.2/55brightness". . .

On a black clipping pattern, I can see below 17 on either "high" or "low" black level setting if I crank up brightness high enough.

Is there, truly, a "correct" setting for "black level" on these TVs when the output device is using YCbCr? I recall that RTings recommended "Low" seemingly independent of output device.

--H
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post #13727 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 08:44 AM
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Anyone have the 4.10.15 firmware to download just in case this new one misbehaves

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It looks like my tv can't even find the new update. I just put in check for updates and it says that none are found. I'm in the United States. When I do get my tv calibrated I think I definitely want to get it after the update.
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post #13728 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:04 AM
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I have the US version if anyone needs it
I need it lol

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post #13729 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:11 AM
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It looks like my tv can't even find the new update. I just put in check for updates and it says that none are found. I'm in the United States. When I do get my tv calibrated I think I definitely want to get it after the update.
Yea the brightness on my set has to be set crazy high after this new update

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post #13730 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:12 AM
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A bit confusing? I don't know if you meant that in a confusing way to read or confusing way to have it setup as that. I am using it as a hub, basically doing exactly what you are, other than the Comcast STB if I am reading correctly. So the answer to my question, is yes? The TV is not interfering with the audio and only decoding the video?


Right now, I use 4 remotes, lol. I had the Harmony 650 before, but it was a nightmare.
If your receiver is setup to basically just pass video to your tv then I don't see how the tv can interfere with your audio because the audio "stops" at your receiver for decoding and playback. I used an old Harmony 880 for years without any issues and once that died, I picked up a couple of Harmony 700's. One for the downstairs HTS and one for the upstairs HTS. The only issues I've had so far is that sometimes the All Power Off button doesn't leave the tv in Standby so I have to press Help to initiate that command. Admittedly my system's are fairly basic. TV, ATV4k, blu-ray players (one is UHD), and receiver.

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post #13731 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Whoops. My bad. I had a typo when I googled it and a different one came up. Sounds good then! I might get it if my Dolby Vision update for Blu Ray doesn't happen. I do hear the upscaling on the XBox isn't as good as some of the 4k players though
I leave all upscaling to the C8 because it does it automatically and so far, I haven't had any issues with pq.

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post #13732 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:28 AM
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I too have my Apple TV 4K set to YCbCr and 4:2:0 (did have it at 4:4:4) and it looks quite good.

I noticed after the firmware update that some shadow details seemed to be lost, so I have nudged up brightness quite a bit from 50 to 55 without making black glow at all and I can now see Darth Vader's helmet details.

However, that's at SDR, gamma 2.2, and the TV's black level setting set to "low"

Having read here yesterday that YCbCr uses the full range of values (0-255), I set the TV to black level of "high" which then caused me to have to both set gamma to bt.1886 and lower brightness all the way to 39 in order to get rid of "black glow." With bt.1886 though, I have a lot less shadow detail. So I went back to "low/2.2/55brightness". . .

On a black clipping pattern, I can see below 17 on either "high" or "low" black level setting if I crank up brightness high enough.

Is there, truly, a "correct" setting for "black level" on these TVs when the output device is using YCbCr? I recall that RTings recommended "Low" seemingly independent of output device.

--H
Okay, I think I see where I was confused. I was assuming that YCbCr necessitates 0-255. But YCbCr actually excpects black to be at 17, white at 235. So, "low" for "black level" is actually correct when Apple TV is set to use YCbCr.

I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong. I have always found this to be counter-intuitive and confusing going back to my Panasonic plasma.
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post #13733 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:45 AM
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Are we happy with LG?

I feel shocked by this last fw release. I appreciated LG effort in solving issues, but I cannot understand how they can distribute a release ruining to such an extend their OotB. It looks like a different TV is on your hands, in an area, the black one, where OLED is distinctive in comparison to other technologies.
Nothing that with a good calibration you can fix, but how many of you want or can effort that. And not forgetting the unlucky ones they have already paid for it and have to redo it.


As a guy doing my own calibration, I am happy as I see issues fixed, even if I have some work to be redone. But as one of the 95% owners, I feel cheated.



As already reported by other ones, here the new and the previous and the new RGB level and the Near Black Level


The Dashed line are the previous one. You can see how my previous calibration (and the same is valid for default) is corrupted resulting in crushed black and how much RGB color has to be added for not having a too vivid/punched immage.
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post #13734 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 09:56 AM
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...As a guy doing my own calibration, I am happy as I see issues fixed, even if I have some work to be redone...
What issues is fixed after you re-calibrated that?
Did you try measure both Warm1 and Warm2? If so then does it looks same?
How about game mode, is it still locked to wide color gamut? Someone at AV wrote that it´s totally ruined what comes to gamma.

I´m also happy when we get firmware updates but those should do some good and yes for everyone without you need hire calibrator to fix thing.
Earlier fw with technicolor was one of the most accurate what we have seen ever and even metameric corrected warmtemp (1).

I don´t feel sympathy for LG for their hard work if result is like that. This is what they do for living.
I can accept that there is still some issues with OLED technology what you can´t fix by software, if that is the case.
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post #13735 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:03 AM
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The update is still not available to me when I manually check for new updates (PNW, Pacific Northwest). Given the wide responses as to whether it is good, bad, or indifferent on calibrated vs non-calibrated panels, I'm in no hurry. My panel is not calibrated. However, I don't want to get too far behind in updates should one come along that truly improves my panel .

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post #13736 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:04 AM
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^^ If there is a problem with the new load, most companies like LG will issue another update in a very short order so as to not loose customers or have negative blogs.
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post #13737 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:15 AM
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I use mainly ISF Bright / Dark depending on the environment, and am happy with my PQ. Not professionally calibrated. I did not have the flash / macro-blocking issue that prompted this most recent update -- which is to say I never saw it in content though I didn't go looking for it in the many possible scenes others have used and reported on (i.e., maybe it is present in my display but it hasn't caused me any angst).

With the recent reports for the new update, I guess I'll hold off on the update when it becomes available? As of yesterday, no update available for me yet (SF Bay Area).

Happy with PQ now; no visible issues with the flashing problem -- is there a reason I should update that I am unaware of, or better to stay fat and happy and not risk black crush and brightness issues and whatever else comes from that. What say you folks?
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post #13738 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmane View Post
Yea the brightness on my set has to be set crazy high after this new update

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It could be that I kept my 'automatic update' function off. I probably got lucky. I'm going to wait to see if LG addresses it with an update or discussion, and then act accordingly.

Kim
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post #13739 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
I feel shocked by this last fw release. I appreciated LG effort in solving issues, but I cannot understand how they can distribute a release ruining to such an extend their OotB. It looks like a different TV is on your hands, in an area, the black one, where OLED is distinctive in comparison to other technologies.
Nothing that with a good calibration you can fix, but how many of you want or can effort that. And not forgetting the unlucky ones they have already paid for it and have to redo it.


As a guy doing my own calibration, I am happy as I see issues fixed, even if I have some work to be redone. But as one of the 95% owners, I feel cheated.



As already reported by other ones, here the new and the previous and the new RGB level and the Near Black Level


The Dashed line are the previous one. You can see how my previous calibration (and the same is valid for default) is corrupted resulting in crushed black and how much RGB color has to be added for not having a too vivid/punched immage.
Hi, does your picture look better with the new version after the calibration?
What do you use to calibrate? Are there any affordable or reasonable options if you don't use it for business? Wondering if its possible to rent calibration tools. Thanks!

Kim

Last edited by [email protected]; 03-24-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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post #13740 of 21625 Old 03-24-2019, 10:21 AM
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Had the issue before the latest update, now the problems are definitely much more rare, PQ still amazing.
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