2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 481 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14401 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post
what no CONTRAST......???!!..lol

85 on all...


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post #14402 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by leiff View Post
i dont think your observation is right. My display was not pro calibrated and there were big differences in hdr and SDR after update. and the HDR settings cant be adjusted to make picture look as good after . Thats my story and im sticking too it. Anyways im happy having rolled back to 4.15. now i just need to block the lg update nag from my router firewall setting
Did you have any issues rolling it back?
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post #14403 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:34 AM
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Ok now that the dust has settled and everyone agrees..... LOL

Should a normal person that doesn't see the things a lot of you experts see in a picture do the update? (Not that you guys aren't normal or anything )
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post #14404 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 11thunder07 View Post
Ok now that the dust has settled and everyone agrees..... LOL


Half the thread will say yes, and half will say no .

I say yes because of two reasons. Firstly, the big improvement to dark colour handling. Secondly if you find you have "black crush" afterwards you can increase the brightness of the near-black dark greys afterwards, using the 20-point white balance adjustment menu, to bring them back out of black and restore them to dark greys.
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post #14405 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:39 AM
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^^ If you do not see things with the old update then how are you going to see things with the new update?
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post #14406 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tanman View Post
^^ If you do not see things with the old update then how are you going to see things with the new update?
I think that was his point.
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post #14407 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:46 AM
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^^ So then go ahead and update since you do not see the difference in picture, it helps correct other issues.
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post #14408 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
The calibration still holds yes, but everything is darker. When the tv is autocalibrated the bypass function requires contrast at 85/brightness 50. If you change brightness after an autocal it will manipulate your calibration to what extent I don't know. Don't really want to spend time trying to worsen my own sets picture. With manual calibration you can set brightness higher to counter the black crush and then go through the rest of the process without issue. Caveat I don't know if the manual cms ever got fixed


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Thanks for the response. If I do a manual calibration then if there are updates to the 1d lut or 3d lut's gamma or greyscale will the same calibration numbers render a different picture? My potentional calibrationists contact at SpectraCal who is the primary contact to LG states that autocal is not affected. However do you know if it is?

Can the people who did an autocal tell me what happened to their picture please? $500 is a lot of money to completely go to waste. Thanks!
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post #14409 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 11thunder07 View Post
Ok now that the dust has settled and everyone agrees..... LOL

Should a normal person that doesn't see the things a lot of you experts see in a picture do the update? (Not that you guys aren't normal or anything )

First of all, none of us are normal We are a bunch of OCD nit-pickers when it comes to video fidelity. That being said, this is a great community to belong to! Constant learning curve.



With my "unicorn" C8 I have had none of the issues that have been reported over the last few months. I haven't gone looking for issues because I'm sure my panel is not perfect but there is certainly nothing perceptible that I can see regardless of source. For that reason, I'm holding off on the update for now. SDR looks really good on my panel for now. I will probably update at some point in time but I'm going to wait a bit longer until I see more posts with other "unicorn" C8's with the update applied and IRE tweaking. I haven't bothered to calibrate my panel either.

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post #14410 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 10:06 AM
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Just did the update and to my non expert eyes it's great! Might be a hair darker but I like it. For any of you "normal people" out there IMHO go for it if for no other reason than to get rid of the update nag on the screen.
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post #14411 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 10:14 AM
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Hair darker? Oh how I wish. Correctable, but at least in my case it surely wasn't a 'hair darker'.
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post #14412 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Hair darker? Oh how I wish. Correctable, but at least in my case it surely wasn't a 'hair darker'.
No matter what I adjust, I have never been able to eliminate black crush to the level prior to the firmware update. I guess my only options are to get a android tablet and go back to the .15 load or go the pro calibration route.

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post #14413 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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It seems with the default oled light of 60 on isf dark I can see 17 flashing and even see all squares minus 16 on the square pattern on the new update. I've gon back and forth with the prior firmware and the new one. The difference I see between the 2 on my set is I have to get closer to the screen to see 17 as oppose to being able to sit further back to see 17 clearer with previous firmware. One thing I do knw is my tv used to flash gray before turning full black on turning on the TV with prior firmware but the new one is all black when turning the TV on. But then again my set is weird that even with both firmware I still have to turn brightness down to 49 on hdr to avoid grey blacks on credit screens on movies or transitions. I have 89 hours on my set btw

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post #14414 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 12:24 PM
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I saw them all too, in a pitch black room, but that doesn't meen they are not too dim. I checked before and after the update, they were still all there, but darker.
I told it before, raise your 2pts rgb low equally just below the point the panel begins to glow very slightly, it may not be perfect but it will get you in the ballpark of something correct.
I noticed that after the update the progressivity in the darkest shades was better too. The grey seemed slightly more reddish though.
Not having a meter right now I didn't check the rgb balance on the lowest shades. Will do when I have a chance.

BTW I don't understand all the talks around the alternate white point with warm 1. The white point is set by the calibration, the primary colors are what they are, and the secondaries will follow based on the white point YOU calibrated.
As long as you use the white point provided by dnice for these sets, use your cal software in raw mode with the alternate white point set, I can't understand why this would be any different. In the end all you need to do (to counter meter variance) is by eye fine tuning the RGB to remove any slight color cast in very well known scenes (switching back and forth between 2 picture modes) and you get outstanding results.

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post #14415 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leiff View Post
i dont think your observation is right. My display was not pro calibrated and there were big differences in hdr and SDR after update. and the HDR settings cant be adjusted to make picture look as good after . Thats my story and im sticking too it. Anyways im happy having rolled back to 4.15. now i just need to block the lg update nag from my router firewall setting
Did you have any issues rolling it back?
No issues going back to 4.15. for me. Ideally, I would like to go back to the 4.20 version I had as the most recent update prior to the current one if anyone can advise me where to get it?
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post #14416 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Hair darker? Oh how I wish. Correctable, but at least in my case it surely wasn't a 'hair darker'.

I really wonder if this panel to panel or eye to eye anomaly!
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post #14417 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 01:05 PM
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FYI

Incase anyone wasnt aware, like me

TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch
He updated his earlier tweet. The first tweet didn't make sense because if LG didn't want it for consumer use then why make it the default setting?
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post #14418 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by macmane View Post
It seems with the default oled light of 60 on isf dark I can see 17 flashing and even see all squares minus 16 on the square pattern on the new update. I've gon back and forth with the prior firmware and the new one. The difference I see between the 2 on my set is I have to get closer to the screen to see 17 as oppose to being able to sit further back to see 17 clearer with previous firmware. One thing I do knw is my tv used to flash gray before turning full black on turning on the TV with prior firmware but the new one is all black when turning the TV on. But then again my set is weird that even with both firmware I still have to turn brightness down to 49 on hdr to avoid grey blacks on credit screens on movies or transitions. I have 89 hours on my set btw

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My set behaves the exact same way as yours! I am holding off on the update for now though.
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post #14419 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 02:39 PM
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Have any professional calibrators yet downloaded this new FW and had a chance to assess what changes have been made? I' curious about any calibrator summary of what changed with the new FW..
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post #14420 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Have any professional calibrators yet downloaded this new FW and had a chance to assess what changes have been made? I' curious about any calibrator summary of what changed with the new FW..


I think so far just just Vincent Teoh from hdtvtest but he hasn't done a video yet.


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post #14421 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 03:17 PM
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BTW I don't understand all the talks around the alternate white point with warm 1. The white point is set by the calibration, the primary colors are what they are, and the secondaries will follow based on the white point YOU calibrated.
As long as you use the white point provided by dnice for these sets, use your cal software in raw mode with the alternate white point set, I can't understand why this would be any different.
We are not talking about D-Nice's white point.

LG themselves have provided an alternative white point, for the first time ever on a consumer display. It's only available in factory-default technicolor mode set to "Warm1".

See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...iled-response/

John Archer wrote:
Quote:
I asked LG if it could provide comment on these reported issues, and I’m pleased to say it has responded in impressive detail.
[...]
"3) Technicolor Expert Mode

LG has been working with Technicolor to bring the most accurate reproduction of what was seen by content producers in the grading suite to the home.

Created jointly by Technicolor’s renowned color scientists and experts and LG’s picture quality engineers, the mode accurately recreates the artistic intent of storytellers, and has been optimized to display content in a dark environment, as it is viewed and approved by directors and cinematographers in Technicolor’s industry leading facilities. In order to truly appreciate content the way the creatives intended, the mode is not intended to be viewed in bright environments, meaning much of the subtlety of the image will be lost if viewed in this way.

As such, there are key differences among Cinema Mode and Expert Mode, among which:

1) The default brightness is set to 100 nits for technicolor Expert Mode (by comparison Cinema Mode is 2.5 times brighter)

2) The mode has all processing (Picture Quality Enhancement Processing, Object Depth Enhancer, Adaptive Color Enhancer, Sharpness Enhancer) turned off, to emulate the working conditions in the grading suites.

3) Viewers can watch the content as close as it would appear to the original content in 24p with True Motion off. Disabling True Motion comes as a measure that Hollywood directors - such as in below article - have been asking for in order to accurately represent the artistic intent (https://gizmodo.com/).

In addition to adjusting the peak luminance, Technicolor has identified an alternative white point that accounts for the difference in colour perception affecting all wide color gamut displays, including, but not limited to, LG OLED.

Technicolor color scientists consider this white point is a close representation to D65 used for creating content, and is based on CIE 1931 2 degree target of 0.300, 0.327 rather than the traditionally used, but problematic 0.313, 0.329.

Previously, metameric correction data has only previously been offered for professional displays; LG OLED TVs are the first consumer product to offer a picture mode with metameric correction. LG is at the forefront of research into this area; for more details see our SID white paper on the topic here.

In order to implement these changes, only the default settings to the Technicolor Expert Mode have been changed in the 4.10.05 update. If you would like to revert to the previous firmware behavior, changing the OLED Light setting and White Point settings to the previous defaults of 80 and Warm 2 respectively will achieve this.”

This really is an impressively comprehensive response from LG that shows a rare level of willingness to engage with its customer base.
So it's not that people can't use alternative white points - yes we all can - it's that an alternative white point has been offered out of the box to every single owner of the TV, which is new.

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post #14422 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Hair darker? Oh how I wish. Correctable, but at least in my case it surely wasn't a 'hair darker'.
I may have been a little premature with my assessment. After watching for a couple hours it looks quite a bit darker
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post #14423 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Have any professional calibrators yet downloaded this new FW and had a chance to assess what changes have been made? I' curious about any calibrator summary of what changed with the new FW..
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
I think so far just just Vincent Teoh from hdtvtest but he hasn't done a video yet.


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Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting Vincent's update. I haven't been paying attention to the forum as much as before I had the set, but it seems that the problem isn't that the update is a bad one, on the contrary it seems to improve near black handling; however it requires a re-calibration if you had already done one or a re-adjustment of the black level if you hadn't had yours professionally calibrated. Am I summarizing this properly?
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post #14424 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 11thunder07 View Post
I may have been a little premature with my assessment. After watching for a couple hours it looks quite a bit darker


I hear ya! I had even recalibrated my set after the update. Thought it was all good, checked my reference movies (Star Wars force awakens) and it seemed ok, still a lil darker but seemed close to my memory. I use the scene where kylo and general hux are speaking to snoke in the throne room. In daytime viewing (gamma 2.2) you can see his cheek scars more prominently, even with night viewing (2.4) you can still see the scars but to a lesser extent. But then blackjoker mentioned "hey have you checked a brightness pluge pattern" and low and behold barely flashing at 19. So was obviously not tracking as close as it should have been to be "calibrated"


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post #14425 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:10 PM
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So it's not that people can't use alternative white points - yes we all can - it's that an alternative white point has been offered out of the box to every single owner of the TV, which is new.
Which is completely off anyway (by more than 20 clics on green and blue on mine) so there's no real benefit, an attempt yes, but far from the goal. Even more greenish than warm2, panel variance screws any possible attempt to make anything correct from the factory.
And just in case I know what a perfect white looks like, coming from a 0.95" mono dlp projector
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post #14426 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting Vincent's update. I haven't been paying attention to the forum as much as before I had the set, but it seems that the problem isn't that the update is a bad one, on the contrary it seems to improve near black handling; however it requires a re-calibration if you had already done one or a re-adjustment of the black level if you hadn't had yours professionally calibrated. Am I summarizing this properly?


This is an easier problem to solve if a manual calibration was done, problem being with autocal is that it locks out controls to adjust lower ire settings, and if you up brightness that voids the bypass structure for the 3dlut...how much that affects accurate colors I don't know


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post #14427 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:13 PM
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I don't want to over simplify, but was wondering about the following:

LG probably assumes that 99% of OLED purchasers do not have their displays calibrated beyond OOTB offerings. With that in mind, their firmware updates are most likely to address those settings, and not a further calibrated set. With this in mind, I do not go far from those settings. The darker picture that all have mentioned with the latest update, does not seem that significant to my eyes. That and other changed in picture quality may appear greater on sets that have been professionally calibrated, since LG cannot possibly target unknown calibrations. I am not familiar with all the terms here, but my biggest complaint since I bought the set in August, was how poorly it handled lower quality, highly compressed SDR near black backgrounds from my Directv. I see a huge improvement with the latest update in that regards. So for now, I think I will do all the updates to firmware as they come along, and maybe get my set calibrated sometime in the future.
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post #14428 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
I recalibrated my c8 last night and I'm incredibly happy with the results. With the new firmware you can actually see all the black detail at 2.4 gamma with a brightness setting of 50. I like the picture much more than with the prior firmware. I now have a flat 2.4 gamma with Delta E under 0.3 for all reference points except color. Color has been calibrated to around 0.5-1.0 Delta E. For those of you that think the picture is too dark, raise the luninance values in the 20 point white balance by 13 for 5 and 10 ire and taper it down to about 5 by the time you hit 80 ire. You'll have close to reference gamma without adjusting rgb values.
Pls can u post ur exact luminance from 5-80.

Pls
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post #14429 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
This is an easier problem to solve if a manual calibration was done, problem being with autocal is that it locks out controls to adjust lower ire settings, and if you up brightness that voids the bypass structure for the 3dlut...how much that affects accurate colors I don't know


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And if you want game mode to be calibrated, I believe that needs to be via AutoCal since it doesn't have the CMS or white point controls.
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post #14430 of 22549 Old 03-30-2019, 04:31 PM
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FWIW this is what I changed on mine (before > after) :

Spoiler!


These are the cal results associated (before firmware update). 20 steps is not final, the 10 steps one is final (some more RGB tweaks).



The gamma drop on the high end is intentional (mimic dlp projectors, looks better). 95% spike should not be dealt with.
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Last edited by lnarbi; 03-30-2019 at 04:38 PM.
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