2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 482 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14431 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 04:16 PM
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First of all, none of us are normal We are a bunch of OCD nit-pickers when it comes to video fidelity. That being said, this is a great community to belong to! Constant learning curve.
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post #14432 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 05:53 PM
 
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FFS. No, obviously the last 300 posts and two weeks we've all just been sat here doing nothing.
lol sorry been out the loop here. Bullet points on last 300 pages
K guess I should not then lmao ahhh man
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post #14433 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
I hear ya! I had even recalibrated my set after the update. Thought it was all good, checked my reference movies (Star Wars force awakens) and it seemed ok, still a lil darker but seemed close to my memory. I use the scene where kylo and general hux are speaking to snoke in the throne room. In daytime viewing (gamma 2.2) you can see his cheek scars more prominently, even with night viewing (2.4) you can still see the scars but to a lesser extent. But then blackjoker mentioned "hey have you checked a brightness pluge pattern" and low and behold barely flashing at 19. So was obviously not tracking as close as it should have been to be "calibrated"


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Man thats one of the best scenes to test for crush, after the update I popped TFA right away and went there...had crush and went to 20 point and fixed it right away.
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post #14434 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Viking 29 View Post
My set behaves the exact same way as yours! I am holding off on the update for now though.
What's your build date on your TV? Mine is Jan 2019

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post #14435 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 07:00 PM
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What's your build date on your TV? Mine is Jan 2019

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Looks like mine is May 2018
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post #14436 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Have any professional calibrators yet downloaded this new FW and had a chance to assess what changes have been made? I' curious about any calibrator summary of what changed with the new FW..
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.
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post #14437 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.
Do you think panel variance is why some are seeing issues? I added a fourth test(Ted’s brightness pattern) and 17 is flashing nicely. My settings stayed exactly the same as before the update. I am reluctant to raise my lower IRE without a verifiable reason. This firmware has been great for my set as it solved a couple of annoyances I had before in SDR. Now if they could do the same with HDR...
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post #14438 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.

Out of curiosity, did you ever post settings for the 2018 C8? I did a search, but didn’t find anything. Thanks in advance...


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post #14439 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 08:44 PM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

So one thing I noticed...is that after running the update for a few days, I think after a few comp cycles the black levels averaged out. Day one after the update had to tick brightness up to 56. This evening I've been playing with basic settings brightness/adjusting 5% ire and found I actually didn't have to mess with either

I even found upticking brightness by 1 would take widescreen bars out of being absolutely black


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post #14440 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
BTW I don't understand all the talks around the alternate white point with warm 1. The white point is set by the calibration, the primary colors are what they are, and the secondaries will follow based on the white point YOU calibrated.
As long as you use the white point provided by dnice for these sets, use your cal software in raw mode with the alternate white point set, I can't understand why this would be any different.
We are not talking about D-Nice's white point.

LG themselves have provided an alternative white point, for the first time ever on a consumer display. It's only available in factory-default technicolor mode set to "Warm1".

See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...iled-response/

John Archer wrote:
Quote:
I asked LG if it could provide comment on these reported issues, and I’m pleased to say it has responded in impressive detail.
[...]
"3) Technicolor Expert Mode

LG has been working with Technicolor to bring the most accurate reproduction of what was seen by content producers in the grading suite to the home.

Created jointly by Technicolor’s renowned color scientists and experts and LG’s picture quality engineers, the mode accurately recreates the artistic intent of storytellers, and has been optimized to display content in a dark environment, as it is viewed and approved by directors and cinematographers in Technicolor’s industry leading facilities. In order to truly appreciate content the way the creatives intended, the mode is not intended to be viewed in bright environments, meaning much of the subtlety of the image will be lost if viewed in this way.

As such, there are key differences among Cinema Mode and Expert Mode, among which:

1) The default brightness is set to 100 nits for technicolor Expert Mode (by comparison Cinema Mode is 2.5 times brighter)

2) The mode has all processing (Picture Quality Enhancement Processing, Object Depth Enhancer, Adaptive Color Enhancer, Sharpness Enhancer) turned off, to emulate the working conditions in the grading suites.

3) Viewers can watch the content as close as it would appear to the original content in 24p with True Motion off. Disabling True Motion comes as a measure that Hollywood directors - such as in below article - have been asking for in order to accurately represent the artistic intent (https://gizmodo.com/).

In addition to adjusting the peak luminance, Technicolor has identified an alternative white point that accounts for the difference in colour perception affecting all wide color gamut displays, including, but not limited to, LG OLED.

Technicolor color scientists consider this white point is a close representation to D65 used for creating content, and is based on CIE 1931 2 degree target of 0.300, 0.327 rather than the traditionally used, but problematic 0.313, 0.329.

Previously, metameric correction data has only previously been offered for professional displays; LG OLED TVs are the first consumer product to offer a picture mode with metameric correction. LG is at the forefront of research into this area; for more details see our SID white paper on the topic here.

In order to implement these changes, only the default settings to the Technicolor Expert Mode have been changed in the 4.10.05 update. If you would like to revert to the previous firmware behavior, changing the OLED Light setting and White Point settings to the previous defaults of 80 and Warm 2 respectively will achieve this.”

This really is an impressively comprehensive response from LG that shows a rare level of willingness to engage with its customer base.
So it's not that people can't use alternative white points - yes we all can - it's that an alternative white point has been offered out of the box to every single owner of the TV, which is new.
Thanks so much for posting the original information as I had not seen it. I also read that with the update that changed this default for Technicolor it DIDN’T need to be switched from Warm 2 to Warm 1 for HDR content, only SDR. Something to do with the extreme difference in the possible colors. Did you see anything about this or did they intend for Warm 1 to apply to the HDR content as well as SDR?

I know panel to panel it’s going to be completely different, therefore comes calibration. However, being that no one near me (except BB, so again... no one.. lol) calibrates I have to go with the presets to get as close as I can without putting money into learning to do it myself. In your opinion, for your panel, is warm 1 or warm 2 for Technicolor closest to accuracy? Like I said, I understand it depends on the panel but I’m just curious for your opinion. Warm 1 seems more cold and green tint to me, with Warm 2 seemingly having a slight bit too much red.

Thanks so much for your time and opinion! I greatly appreciate both.
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post #14441 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 09:16 PM
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I’m so afraid of clicking yes instead of no when prompted every time with the update. I can’t find firewall settings to block. I think I recall reading it’ll just go away on its own if you let it sit on the screen for awhile. Is this true? So I don’t risk clicking the wrong option one day? Or does it not go away/will automatically choose whichever is selected after so long if not selected by the enter button? Thanks in advance.
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post #14442 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
I didn't notice. I don't have the 4.2.2 option checked. I don't think I ever have checked it.

TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch

Understood. Just trying to help out!
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post #14443 of 21633 Old 03-30-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
So one thing I noticed...is that after running the update for a few days, I think after a few comp cycles the black levels averaged out. Day one after the update had to tick brightness up to 56. This evening I've been playing with basic settings brightness/adjusting 5% ire and found I actually didn't have to mess with either

I even found upticking brightness by 1 would take widescreen bars out of being absolutely black


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very interesting. As history has shown us with new sets maybe it does take a while for the black levels to adjust. After a major firmware adjustment the same thing might be occurring for some sets based on where the starting point was on the particular set.
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post #14444 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.
Excellent! Thanks very much for posting that. I'm heartened that you too see the quantization error improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
Out of curiosity, did you ever post settings for the 2018 C8? I did a search, but didn’t find anything. Thanks in advance...
No he didn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganElisabeth View Post
Thanks so much for posting the original information as I had not seen it. I also read that with the update that changed this default for Technicolor it DIDN’T need to be switched from Warm 2 to Warm 1 for HDR content, only SDR.
I'm no expert, let's get that one settled first. I joined this forum a few years ago and just read and absorbed information from others here, that's all!

There is no Technicolor HDR picture mode! [EDIT: oh yes there is! But the next sentence was ok] This stuff with alternative white points is only about SDR.

Quote:
I know panel to panel it’s going to be completely different, therefore comes calibration. However, being that no one near me (except BB, so again... no one.. lol) calibrates I have to go with the presets to get as close as I can without putting money into learning to do it myself. In your opinion, for your panel, is warm 1 or warm 2 for Technicolor closest to accuracy?
Ha. Warm2 is always the closest to accuracy, but I don't think that is the question you intended to ask :-)

You may like to read up a bit more about metamerism, as this is what it is about. You can have the most accurate meter in the world, and calibrate your panel perfectly to the accurate standards, and it could still look wrong to you. This is the same problem as The Dress
  • It is a fact, not an opinion, that the warm2 preset is the most accurate to the standards used when creating content for movies and TV.
  • It is also a fact, not an opinion, that the warm1 preset uses a special white point which is designed to perceptually match the white of a particular mastering monitor that some hollywood studios use.
  • It will depend on the rods and cones in your eyes, which one looks the most "natural" to you.

Because I can't see with your eyes, I cannot help you with the last point, and if I told you which looked more natural to me, I would be framing [link] your choice! Besides, I haven't scrutinised a comparison in any depth.
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post #14445 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.
Excellent! Thanks very much for posting that. I'm heartened that you too see the quantization error improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
Out of curiosity, did you ever post settings for the 2018 C8? I did a search, but didn’t find anything. Thanks in advance...
No he didn't [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganElisabeth View Post
Thanks so much for posting the original information as I had not seen it. I also read that with the update that changed this default for Technicolor it DIDN’T need to be switched from Warm 2 to Warm 1 for HDR content, only SDR.
I'm no expert, let's get that one settled first. I joined this forum a few years ago and just read and absorbed information from others here, that's all! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

There is no Technicolor HDR picture mode! This stuff with alternative white points is only about SDR.

Quote:
I know panel to panel it’s going to be completely different, therefore comes calibration. However, being that no one near me (except BB, so again... no one.. lol) calibrates I have to go with the presets to get as close as I can without putting money into learning to do it myself. In your opinion, for your panel, is warm 1 or warm 2 for Technicolor closest to accuracy?
Ha. Warm2 is always the closest to accuracy, but I don't think that is the question you intended to ask 🙂

You may like to read up a bit more about metamerism, as this is what it is about. You can have the most accurate meter in the world, and calibrate your panel perfectly to the accurate standards, and it could still look wrong to you. This is the same problem as The Dress [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
  • It is a fact, not an opinion, that the warm2 preset is the most accurate to the standards used when creating content for movies and TV.
  • It is also a fact, not an opinion, that the warm1 preset uses a special white point which is designed to perceptually match the white of a particular mastering monitor that some hollywood studios use.
  • It will depend on the rods and cones in your eyes, which one looks the most "natural" to you.

Because I can't see with your eyes, I cannot help you with the last point, and if I told you which looked more natural to me, I would be framing [link] your choice! Besides, I haven't scrutinised a comparison in any depth.
You may not categorize yourself as an expert per say but you definitely have the knowledge to inform and educate more than most which is why I place great value on your opinion. So I greatly appreciate your response. 🙂 This is what I thought! So just because using Technicolor for HDR content (as per rtings, my eyes, and others preference) this Mode wasn’t designed for HDR even though it’s good to use for HDR content just not intended is that right? When you say isn’t an HDR Mode do you mean it’s not accurate to use for HDR content...? I thought for sure it was the most recommended?

Ah yes, I remember that dress debacle. Lol You did an excellent job answering exactly what I was hoping for and expecting. 🙂 The Warm 1 thing totally just threw me for a loop off the Warm 2 thing I’ve known for quite some time. Where I got confused is just because that’s a special white point added for some studios to master with DOESN’T mean that’s how they intended the viewer to see it in the end which is what the Warm 2 standard has set the tone for. I thought this meant Warm 1 was replacing Warm 2 for most/more accurate/intended to be seen with the Technicolor preset than Warm 2 has been. Words really can become confusing through perception.

Again, I so greatly appreciate your time and helping me to understand. You’ve cleared up by confusion with the Warm 1 which really means a lot to me. Now I can go back to fully enjoying SDR without that thought in the back of my mind. Lol
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post #14446 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 03:36 AM
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You are very kind. And I was wrong to say there is no Technicolor HDR mode, oops. I was thinking of ISF Dark/Bright, those are SDR-only.
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post #14447 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Use Warm 1
Does this recommendation apply to 2017 sets also?
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post #14448 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 04:40 AM
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Does this recommendation apply to 2017 sets also?
No, they did not get the update that the 8 series received. As for when, see the post from Archer quoted above.

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post #14449 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Have any professional calibrators yet downloaded this new FW and had a chance to assess what changes have been made? I' curious about any calibrator summary of what changed with the new FW..
Zero changes here except quantization error improvement on the low end. No gamma issues, no major adjustments needed for color.
From a flat 2.2 gamma to this? Come on now. What you're saying isn't accurate. Post some graphs so we can all see what you're seeing.
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post #14450 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamad138 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
I recalibrated my c8 last night and I'm incredibly happy with the results. With the new firmware you can actually see all the black detail at 2.4 gamma with a brightness setting of 50. I like the picture much more than with the prior firmware. I now have a flat 2.4 gamma with Delta E under 0.3 for all reference points except color. Color has been calibrated to around 0.5-1.0 Delta E. For those of you that think the picture is too dark, raise the luninance values in the 20 point white balance by 13 for 5 and 10 ire and taper it down to about 5 by the time you hit 80 ire. You'll have close to reference gamma without adjusting rgb values.
Pls can u post ur exact luminance from 5-80.

Pls
I'll play along. My main settings are:
Isf dark
OLED light 28
Brightness 50
Contrast 85.
Gamma 2.4

20 point luminance adjustments:
5) +12
10) +14
15) +12
20) +10
25) +8
30) +6
35) +7
40) +4
45) +3
50) +4
55) +6
60) +3
65) +2
70) +5
75) +6
80) +3
85) -2
90) -3
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post #14451 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:19 AM
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Here are my grayscale and gamma graphs. For some reason windows isn't letting me take a screenshot, so this is as good as I can do with my phone.
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post #14452 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:24 AM
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Those low end adjustments are quite similar to mine. If more people posted theirs we could maybe get some average for people without a meter.

I got:
5: +13
10: +16
15: +12
20: +10
25: +9
30: +6
35: +3
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post #14453 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:37 AM
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I am new here and just got the 65 C8, I updated immediately after reading some comments.
I am average user and I set it to Expert Bright and for me picture is amazing.
My concern is the burn in, I watch a lot of TV series and most have their logo at the lower right corner although I turned off logo luminance
Also those who are in Canada, does CP24 will cause burn in? Sometimes I watch CP24 average of 30 mins on the weekend.

Thanks
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post #14454 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Those low end adjustments are quite similar to mine. If more people posted theirs we could maybe get some average for people without a meter. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I got:
5: +13
10: +16
15: +12
20: +10
25: +9
30: +6
35: +3
Good stuff man. Somebody could put in either of our settings and be much better off than when they started. Cheers 🍻
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post #14455 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:50 AM
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Yesterday my new 65c8 developed a stuck pixel (bright red). I ran the pixel refresher last night but its still there today. I'm again now. I bought it at Costco and have a number for their concierge tech support service. Any advice before I call them?

I searched this thread and found references to a pixel flipper, and i found a video of one on youtube. I only tried a few minutes, for fear of making things worse, but no luck.
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post #14456 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ItzMe View Post
Yesterday my new 65c8 developed a stuck pixel (bright red). I ran the pixel refresher last night but its still there today. I'm again now. I bought it at Costco and have a number for their concierge tech support service. Any advice before I call them?

I searched this thread and found references to a pixel flipper, and i found a video of one on youtube. I only tried a few minutes, for fear of making things worse, but no luck.
Run a stuck pixel video for a few hours before you give up hope. It won't hurt the TV.
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post #14457 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 07:09 AM
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If it is not in the center or near center of the viewing area, and it's only one pixel, I might think twice about that exchange if all else is good. Some times, and more often than you think, your exchange may have more than one stuck pixel.
I have three but they are nearer the corners and I don't even notice them when watching content only on test patterns.

Nothing's Impossible if you don't have to do it yourself ! Glenee
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post #14458 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ItzMe View Post
Yesterday my new 65c8 developed a stuck pixel (bright red). I ran the pixel refresher last night but its still there today. I'm again now. I bought it at Costco and have a number for their concierge tech support service. Any advice before I call them?

I searched this thread and found references to a pixel flipper, and i found a video of one on youtube. I only tried a few minutes, for fear of making things worse, but no luck.
I had a pixel stick, then it unstuck a few weeks later....No issue since.
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post #14459 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by boldventure View Post
I am new here and just got the 65 C8, I updated immediately after reading some comments.

I am average user and I set it to Expert Bright and for me picture is amazing.

My concern is the burn in, I watch a lot of TV series and most have their logo at the lower right corner although I turned off logo luminance

Also those who are in Canada, does CP24 will cause burn in? Sometimes I watch CP24 average of 30 mins on the weekend.



Thanks


If you're concerned with logo burn in why turn off logo luminance? That's suppose to help to decrease possibility of burn in? Also, just mix up what you watch so you don't always have the logo in a corner, or a ticker bar running the bottom of the screen. My wife is an avid tv binger and we haven't had any burn in after about a year worth of usage


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post #14460 of 21633 Old 03-31-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Excellent! Thanks very much for posting that. I'm heartened that you too see the quantization error improvement.





I'm no expert, let's get that one settled first. I joined this forum a few years ago and just read and absorbed information from others here, that's all!

There is no Technicolor HDR picture mode! [EDIT: oh yes there is! But the next sentence was ok] This stuff with alternative white points is only about SDR.



Ha. Warm2 is always the closest to accuracy, but I don't think that is the question you intended to ask :-)

You may like to read up a bit more about metamerism, as this is what it is about. You can have the most accurate meter in the world, and calibrate your panel perfectly to the accurate standards, and it could still look wrong to you. This is the same problem as The Dress
  • It is a fact, not an opinion, that the warm2 preset is the most accurate to the standards used when creating content for movies and TV.
  • It is also a fact, not an opinion, that the warm1 preset uses a special white point which is designed to perceptually match the white of a particular mastering monitor that some hollywood studios use.
  • It will depend on the rods and cones in your eyes, which one looks the most "natural" to you.

Because I can't see with your eyes, I cannot help you with the last point, and if I told you which looked more natural to me, I would be framing [link] your choice! Besides, I haven't scrutinised a comparison in any depth.
True that after firmware 4.10.05 warm 2 adheres closer to the 6500K standard but how the Technicolor warm 1 and warm 2 presets measure when it comes to grayscale and color errors is very close according to this posted measurement: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1546001194
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