2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 566 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16951 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:30 PM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
chunon, I'm referring to posts such as Adamd's (and one or two others) who said or implied that there is still black crush with the 5.10.00 update. He even states that he adjusted his gamma settings to try to correct it.



Are you saying you downloaded the 5.10.00 FW Update and then changed your gamma settings back to the Default Settings and all is well?


I recalibrated using calman autocal the pre readings showed the gamma was now lowered compared to the previous calibration , also checked black level with a pluge pattern it shows no black crush with a setting of 50. I can only speak for my panel no one else’s . I calibrate my sets I don’t adjust by eye or use shared settings both are notoriously inaccurate .



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post #16952 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I recalibrated using calman autocal the pre readings showed the gamma was now lowered compared to the previous calibration , also checked black level with a pluge pattern it shows no black crush with a setting of 50. I can only speak for my panel no one else’s . I calibrate my sets I don’t adjust by eye or use shared settings both are notoriously inaccurate .



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I'm going to betray my ignorance of doing calibrations in what I say next. So, are saying you ran the calibration in order to see what the gamma was but didn't have to change anything? Or are you saying that by doing calman autocal it (the calibration) actually did make some changes? Then you "checked black level with a pluge pattern" to check to see if there was black crush at the Default Setting of 50 and there was no black crush? As one who does't do any self-calibrating, it would be nice to know that NOTHING WOULD NEED TO BE DONE...that all is well with the new FW Update. In saying this I fully realize that you are only "speaking for your panel and no one else's"; in other words someone else may not have the exact results that you found.

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post #16953 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I'm going to betray my ignorance of doing calibrations in what I say next. So, are saying you ran the calibration in order to see what the gamma was but didn't have to change anything? Or are you saying that by doing calman autocal it (the calibration) actually did make some changes? Then you "checked black level with a pluge pattern" to check to see if there was black crush at the Default Setting of 50 and there was no black crush? As one who does't do any self-calibrating, it would be nice to know that NOTHING WOULD NEED TO BE DONE...that all is well with the new FW Update. In saying this I fully realize that you are only "speaking for your panel and no one else's"; in other words someone else may not have the exact results that you found.


This post shows pretty clearly what I am talking about :
2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...8&share_type=t


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post #16954 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I'm going to betray my ignorance of doing calibrations in what I say next. So, are saying you ran the calibration in order to see what the gamma was but didn't have to change anything? Or are you saying that by doing calman autocal it (the calibration) actually did make some changes? Then you "checked black level with a pluge pattern" to check to see if there was black crush at the Default Setting of 50 and there was no black crush? As one who does't do any self-calibrating, it would be nice to know that NOTHING WOULD NEED TO BE DONE...that all is well with the new FW Update. In saying this I fully realize that you are only "speaking for your panel and no one else's"; in other words someone else may not have the exact results that you found.


I recalibrated because the firmware update impacted gamma pretty easy to see with the naked eye . Obviously that would impact near black the most .


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post #16955 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I recalibrated because the firmware update impacted gamma pretty easy to see with the naked eye . Obviously that would impact near black the most .


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Okay, then for those of us who are not DIYers when it comes to calibrations, what exactly would we need to do after downloading the update (if the gamma has been impacted negatively)?
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post #16956 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 07:58 PM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Okay, then for those of us who are not DIYers when it comes to calibrations, what exactly would we need to do after downloading the update (if the gamma has been impacted negatively)?


You should be able to back out your 5 ire settings but again panels vary . When I say the gamma changed I never said negatively but it impacted my calibration so I had to redo it , make sense ?

Did you look at the chart jk82 posted ? that should be all the proof you need that clearly shows the gamma matches up with what it was on .15.


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post #16957 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
You should be able to back out your 5 ire settings but again panels vary . When I say the gamma changed I never said negatively but it impacted my calibration so I had to redo it , make sense ?

Did you look at the chart jk82 posted ? that should be all the proof you need that clearly shows the gamma matches up with what it was on .15.


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Got it! Thanks for bearing with me.

Now I need to wait for LG to actually give me the option to download it. I'm still seeing the invitation for .55 every time I turn on my display.
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post #16958 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Got it! Thanks for bearing with me.



Now I need to wait for LG to actually give me the option to download it. I'm still seeing the invitation for .55 every time I turn on my display.


Yeah the only way to get it right now is the experimental mode .


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post #16959 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 08:12 PM
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I just wanna clear it up for you guys. I said the new firmware is still crushing black but it turned out to just be the movie I was watching. New firmware is much better.
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post #16960 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I just wanna clear it up for you guys. I said the new firmware is still crushing black but it turned out to just be the movie I was watching. New firmware is much better.


Glad to hear that


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post #16961 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 09:39 PM
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I have updated my recently purchased C8 to 04.10.55 from LG’s USA site. Where do I find the 05.10.00 firmware?

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post #16962 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 09:43 PM
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I'm quite pleased to read that this yet to be publicly released firmware version 05.10.00 has put things right, as I was notified yesterday that ChadB will be in my area to calibrate my C8 in just two weeks. I've always been pleased with his calibrations on my last two panels, and really look forward to his ISF calibration on such a worthy OLED panel.

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post #16963 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 09:47 PM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by keyoctave View Post
I have updated my recently purchased C8 to 04.10.55 from LG’s USA site. Where do I find the 05.10.00 firmware?


The only way to get it is to enter the service menu and put the set in engineering mode, basically beta firmware . It has not been officially released yet.


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post #16964 of 22522 Old 05-11-2019, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyoctave View Post
I have updated my recently purchased C8 to 04.10.55 from LG’s USA site. Where do I find the 05.10.00 firmware?

It's not a publicly released firmware version as of yet, the only way would be going into the "In Start" menu and putting the TV into "Engineering" mode. You can do this with a Harmony remote(ie: 650/665/950/Elite) if you have one.
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post #16965 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Yeah that’s exactly the point , and the other folks in this thread making assumptions based on one or two posts .
If you read what I posted you would understand, no it´s not the case at least with my case.
There is difference with 04.10.15 and 05.10.00, it´s not panel specific thing.

But because with 05.10.00 near black (0-4%) gamma tracking is better than with 04.10.15 however needed to adjust brightness from 50 to 52 and lost two darkest shades with full RGB, it´s not problem and overall with this accurate near black gamma tracking and better dithering picture quality is better than before.

I have not equipments to do auto cal so have to do it old way and also use some testpatterns and real material to verify results.
It´s not always just to get calibration straight as a string like it seems with autocal, hope things like this don´t loose skills to do it manually.

I think I´m out from this place. Few days away and there is hundreds chats about fireplaces etc and if some rookie ask same things again than what was asked two days and 200 hundred posts ago you get instantly notice "use search" or "read FAQ".
Also seems that some guys (technically qualified) are blind to some reality things and close eyes or at least other one, maby love to these fancy toys cause acting like that.
Same guys talking about accurate calibration and at same time give advices to make settings by blind. Thumbs up of course for clan members.

(btw, one more picture about comparing factory defaults between 04.10.15 and 05.10.00, and near black measure with 05.10.00 if someone is interested)

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post #16966 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 12:29 AM
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Can anyone in this thread definitively answer the question about what HDMI Ultra Deep Color mode is?

Here is what I have seen so far....

- When first connecting my C8 it asked me to put it in deep color mode which I did without knowing much about it (sounded cool).

- I started experiencing all manner of strange signal droputs and bad picture quality sometime later. I eventually isolated this to the HDMI deep color setting. After disabling everything started working again but I ran into another issue which indicated the shield is defective and am in the process of an RMA.

- I read on various sites that this deep color mode is simply an LG technology to go from 8 to 10 bit color but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with HDR.

- Today I started focusing on HDR and trying to make sure it is working. With some quick googling, several sites seem to indicate this deep color mode is a requirement. Here for example. But there are many others.

So now I am quite confused.

Is HDMI Deep Color setting on an HDMI port required to experience HDR?

Is there any way to determine if an LG TV is receiving/displaying HDR metadata from a given source?
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post #16967 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Okay, then for those of us who are not DIYers when it comes to calibrations, what exactly would we need to do after downloading the update (if the gamma has been impacted negatively)?
Gamma is back to what it was on .15, so use the same settings as you had with .15 and it is the same again. For me that would be default settings initially and maybe a small tweek.
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post #16968 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holm Stadermann View Post
In the avforums I have read, that the 5.10.00 FW woud have impact on HDR. https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-...#post-27108643
Can anyone confirm this? Maybe they changed tone mapping into the C9 direction ...? Or is this BS?

Sorry for quoting myself but....any information on this? Is there a change in HDR performance with the 05.10.00? Any experiences so far? Thanks in advance.
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post #16969 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroStaticSpeaker View Post
Can anyone in this thread definitively answer the question about what HDMI Ultra Deep Color mode is?
It's the switch to enable all the HDMI 2.0 picture modes. If it's off, it's basically HDMI1.4.

Confusingly, every manufacturer calls the SAME THING something different.

LG calls it "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour".

Please read the "HDMI modes" link in my sig for the comparison of modes possible.

Just turn it on. NB: If you get picture problems, it could be that you are not using a suitable HDMI cable. You need a "High Speed" cable which can carry the extra bandwidth signals required. Some HDR modes need the full 18Gbps. It is not enough to use a cable which claims to transfer the full 18Gbps because there are many dishonest manufacturers and retailers who use deliberately misleading statements.

For this reason always look for the Premium Certified label


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Premium Certified cables are NOT expensive - but many crappy cables which are not certified, are expensive!

This is the ONLY thing you ever need to look for on a HDMI cable - it's really simple and please don't be sucked into thinking you need to read a big long list of specs.

If it's got that badge, you're good. If it doesn't, you don't know and it's the Wild West.

Quote:
So now I am quite confused.

Is HDMI Deep Color setting on an HDMI port required to experience HDR?
Don't know why you are confused.

Yes.

Just turn it on.

Quote:
Is there any way to determine if an LG TV is receiving/displaying HDR metadata from a given source?
Yes, very easy. The TV bends over backwards to tell you!

If the source is HDR10 or HLG or Dolby Vision:
  • The TV will show a "HDR" or "HLG" or "Dolby Vision" piece of "toast" (pop-up) in the top-right corner of the screen when it switches.
  • The info panel will say "HDR" (waggle remote, click on top left, click again)
  • The list of Picture Modes will say "HDR" (for HDR10 and HLG") or "Dolby Vision" at the top.

HTH


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post #16970 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holm Stadermann View Post
Sorry for quoting myself but....any information on this? Is there a change in HDR performance with the 05.10.00? Any experiences so far? Thanks in advance.
I don't think you are sorry, really, so why say it? You just need to WAIT.

The only thing people have seen that's changed is that the default gamma curve is restored, and the mechanism to "roll back" has been blocked on that firmware. So if you install it, it's a one-way trip. This has been covered several times, there's nothing else so say yet.

You're asking a question about a beta Engineering firmware based on the first two days of people experimenting with it, and one person thinking he's imaging a change and asking if anyone else has (they haven't). It's much much too soon to expect any kind of meaningful answer, so to repeat your question as if it was missed is premature to say the least. It wasn't missed. It's too soon.

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post #16971 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
Interesting. In HDR and SDR, game mode is locked, along with most options. I assume it's because my C8 was pro calibrated with Calman?
By default, for Game Mode:
SDR - Advanced Controls / Colour gamut (Auto/Extended/Wide) is locked to "Wide". This is by design, and won't change regardless of how many times people keep asking "does the new firmware change this" . However on the 2019 models with the new Alpha2 chip, you can change it in SDR.

HDR - Advanced Controls / Colour gamut - will let you change it. Again by design.

Next, if you calibrate any picture mode using Calman's 1DLUT greyscale, then certain settings will be locked in the user menus. Only the White balance, color temp, and Gamma controls are affected. (If anything else is locked, it is not because of the Calman 1DLUT!). The technical explanation of why is here:
Quote:
The reason why the white balance, color temp, and gamma controls are grayed out after 1D LUT AutoCAL, is because all three of those controls plus the 20 point and 2pt in the factory menu, are all [in normal use] merged/combined via an algorithm to generate the factory 1D look up table. They are not separate controls that manipulate separate things.

When we replace the factory 1D look up table [with our new one created by the calibration], we have essentially bypassed all of those controls, and wrote our own custom look up table directly to the chip.

This bypasses that merging algorithm completely. Because of this we have no way to have one of those controls still be active and working as it did in the regular way.
So on the 2018 models, to get accurate SDR Game Mode colours you have to calibrate, unfortunately. Then it will be locked to the calibration, which will be "correct" rec.709 - "correct" in quotes because there's no standard for video games' colour gamut, just adopting the movie industry's rec.709 may or may not be right.
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post #16972 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
I find too bright 0.5%-1% to be much more of a problem than having it slightly crushed/clipped because it will make scenes like this look terrible when watching in a dark room:


(what looks like black is actually in the 1% range and such scenes aren't that uncommon and rarely use true black)

What's the name of the movie and what's the timestamp on that scene?
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post #16973 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 06:12 AM
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Something to update on the FAQ, it mentions Chronitis recommendation to use color at 70 in HDR game mode, but he corrected that later.

@chunon I take it the AutoCal bug from .31 that left blacks crushed post calibration has been fixed as well in .55 or in the engineering FW?
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post #16974 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
Something to update on the FAQ, it mentions Chronitis recommendation to use color at 70 in HDR game mode, but he corrected that later.


@chunon I take it the AutoCal bug from .31 that left blacks crushed post calibration has been fixed as well in .55 or in the engineering FW?


Yes in the engineering fw at least for me. I never recalibrated on .55 pointless .


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post #16975 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennywise666 View Post
What's the name of the movie and what's the timestamp on that scene?

The Descent (2005) at 00:48:10


This movie has many scenes that are like that where you have the picture surrounded by blacks/near-blacks.
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post #16976 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Edpinguin View Post
Gamma is back to what it was on .15, so use the same settings as you had with .15 and it is the same again. For me that would be default settings initially and maybe a small tweek.
When I purchased my display a couple of months ago, it came with .31. So, after I'm able to download 05.10.00 I'll simply reset the Technicolor Preset Default settings.

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post #16977 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
The only way to get it is to enter the service menu and put the set in experimental mode, basically beta firmware . It has not been officially released yet.


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I think I will wait for the official firmware. Never have been a beta kind of guy...

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Originally Posted by LCSeminole View Post
It's not a publicly released firmware version as of yet, the only way would be going into the "In Start" menu and putting the TV into "Engineering" mode. You can do this with a Harmony remote(ie: 650/665/950/Elite) if you have one.
I have an LG service remote but thanks for the tip.


After upgrading from my older LG EG9100 1080p OLED, the difference is night and day compared to the C8. I had some bothersome banding at the lower IRE levels on the 9100 but have seen none on the C8. I too noticed the black crush and am hoping the next firmware update address this. I finally am able to see what HDR is all about. Impressive! I did disable the ABSL to make calibration a little easier. Will be doing that after I get more hours on the panel. I could not be more pleased with this TV!
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post #16978 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
The only way to get it is to enter the service menu and put the set in experimental mode, basically beta firmware . It has not been officially released yet.


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No disrespect of course but it seems a little irresponsible to me to recommend anyone go into the service menu when this is not meant for consumers to be messing around in.

If you do this, it's "At your own risk".
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post #16979 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 07:09 AM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post
No disrespect of course but it seems a little irresponsible to me to recommend anyone go into the service menu when this is not meant for consumers to be messing around in.



If you do this, it's "At your own risk".


Where did I recommend that ? If you are afraid to do it don’t do it . You risk tolerance is obviously a lot Lower than mine . I didn’t tell anyone how to do it or suggest that they do it, was just answering a question from another poster .

Of course it’s at your own risk just like anything else in life , it’s sad no one understands the concept of personal responsibility these days .

If you are not capable of putting in a four digit code, using a directional pad to navigate and only touch things that you have researched then stay out of the service menu.


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post #16980 of 22522 Old 05-12-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
The only way to get it is to enter the service menu and put the set in experimental mode, basically beta firmware . It has not been officially released yet.


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It's actually engineering mode not experimental. Just in case anyone is trying this. Don't want them to do the wrong thing or possibly brick their tv.

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