2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 572 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17131 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 03:45 AM
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Another example of why you shouldn't be messing around in the service menu and then expect LG to help you fix it?
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post #17132 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheModestGun View Post
Can anyone explain the Dynamic Tone Mapping to me? As far as I can tell, it seems like it’s modifying EOTF so highlight detail isn’t clipped, but it also seems like it’s bringing up low and mid tones?

With it on, is it tracking EOTF values on the lower luminance values or is it boosting them way out of wack?

I can’t tell if it’s depressing the tone curve with Dynamic Tone mapping off, or if it’s raising the EOTF curve way above spec with it on. But turning it off seems to clip highlight detail.

Anyone have good insights on this?


It affects the whole tone curve from what I have seen . Depending on the material it can make hdr look unrealistic imo , I prefer the time mapping on the Panny Ub820.


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post #17133 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactlol View Post
What exactly did you tweak? I can't just tweak low IRE on game mode and Dolby Vision so those inputs are stuck looking crushed until this new firmware gets released.

That we need to tweak the gamma for it to look normal just kind of shows the problems with this firmware but yea... Not exactly a good firmware if you play games on the TV.
I see that in my last response to you I didn't answer your main question. I tweaked, as did quite a few others, the gamma settings in the "White Balance" Technicolor Mode (I use this Mode for all material except for UHD viewing). I set the 5% IRE setting to a Luminance of +12.

Regarding other Preset Modes, I see no problem with Cinema Home or Cinema User when viewing UHD movies/series, whether I'm watching Blu-rays or streaming from Amazon Prime.

I do agree with you that LG has a firmware problem and from all reports from those who have downloaded the new 05.10.00 firmware the problem with gamma has been fixed. I am anxiously waiting for it to go mainstream so we can all download it without having to enter the Service Menu to do so.

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post #17134 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post
Another example of why you shouldn't be messing around in the service menu and then expect LG to help you fix it?

Or better understand what you are doing first. It's not that complicated and offers a number of benefits to those who value them. Between posts like this and firmware .15 vs. 31. and .55 its like having a box of chocolates
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post #17135 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:23 AM
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I still think your question is hard to understand, and I would try rephrasing it to explain exactly what you want to do. It sounds like you want to use the Magic Remote to record some programs on some type of Cisco box? So do you want the Magic Remote to control the Cisco box as well as the C8? Perhaps you could elaborate.

Thanks for hanging in there with me, Smitty. You have generally expressed what I thought I was asking. Specifically,

when using the remote supplied by Hotwire (URC 2025B2-BB), while watching a TV show, or when highlighting a show on the Guide, I press a Record button, and the chosen program is recorded and stored on the STB. When I want to view the recorded program, I go to the DVR button that lists all programs that have been so recorded, and select the program to be viewed. I see no way to do these functions with the Magic Remote even though it is paired with the Cisco STB and the TV. There MR does not have any buttons indicating the availability of such functionality. Honestly, this is the way all previous TVs' recording processes have worked once their remotes have been properly paired. I can't believe that this is not the case with the C8's MR...I must be missing something???
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post #17136 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mphilips93010 View Post
Hi.. I’m in North America. I know they were at zero prior to me going into that menu. Not sure what I did
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Seems like an object lesson on why it might not be a good idea to to into the service menu just to get firmware that will eventually be made available to the public.
Yep you have to be very careful in the service menu, you can render your set useless and sometimes you will be charged for it to be fixed......
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post #17137 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
when using the remote supplied by Hotwire (URC 2025B2-BB), while watching a TV show, or when highlighting a show on the Guide, I press a Record button, and the chosen program is recorded and stored on the STB. When I want to view the recorded program, I go to the DVR button that lists all programs that have been so recorded, and select the program to be viewed. I see no way to do these functions with the Magic Remote even though it is paired with the Cisco STB and the TV. There MR does not have any buttons indicating the availability of such functionality. Honestly, this is the way all previous TVs' recording processes have worked once their remotes have been properly paired. I can't believe that this is not the case with the C8's MR...I must be missing something???
flycaster, I use a Harmony remote, so I only use the Magic Remote when I need to do something that the Harmony remote cannot do or isn't set up for (like saying "no" to software updates). But I don't see a button on the Magic Remote that would seem to allow you to record something on the Cisco box. Also, the pdf guide for the C8 that references the play and pause button says it controls "Media Contents," which sounds like it only controls the streaming apps on the C8. Maybe you can only control volume and change channels on a set top box with the Magic Remote?

I looked in the C8 User Manual (the html version) and it seemed to refer to some setup up options for the Magic Remote that might possibly allow you to record with a set top box, but I didn't want to mess with my setup. I'm not sure if there is something in there, but have you checked out the instructions on the C8 User Manual html version? Or maybe you did already and have paired he Magic Remote with the set top box but there is just no button for recording?

Anyway, I know some other folks are using the Magic Remote here so maybe someone who has another set top box can say if they are able to record with the Remote.

P.S. The Harmony remotes are very functional and can control everything, and you can get the model 650 (I think that's the one) for about $49. That's one possible option.
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post #17138 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
flycaster, I use a Harmony remote, so I only use the Magic Remote when I need to do something that the Harmony remote cannot do or isn't set up for (like saying "no" to software updates).

If I need to say No to an update on my Harmony 700 I just click on Devices -> LG and then use the cursor arrow to move left and click No. Setting up the Harmony was done automatically by Logitech so there was no individual or remote learning to do. I even have a Service Menu option which I have never, nor will ever, use.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
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post #17139 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 09:27 AM
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I see that in my last response to you I didn't answer your main question. I tweaked, as did quite a few others, the gamma settings in the "White Balance" Technicolor Mode (I use this Mode for all material except for UHD viewing). I set the 5% IRE setting to a Luminance of +12.



Regarding other Preset Modes, I see no problem with Cinema Home or Cinema User when viewing UHD movies/series, whether I'm watching Blu-rays or streaming from Amazon Prime.



I do agree with you that LG has a firmware problem and from all reports from those who have downloaded the new 05.10.00 firmware the problem with gamma has been fixed. I am anxiously waiting for it to go mainstream so we can all download it without having to enter the Service Menu to do so.


Guys,

I spoke with an engineering contact at LG and they wanted people to understand the possible ramifications of turning on the engineering firmware setting in the service menu.

These are firmwares that have not went through the QC process yet, And may never be actually released. It is possible to get your TV on a firmware that has a major bug, then that that FW is never released, And if they don’t release any subsequent higher numbered firmware, then you will be stuck on that one forever.
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post #17140 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 09:44 AM
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I decided to try the 5.20 beta yesterday, and clearly saw the difference on the low end.
But interestingly, the brightness pattern didn't look really different, still the same headroom on the brightness control and rgb low 2pts.
The white balance did change a bit, as it has been posted before, I had to adjust a bit the green part, and now it seems on par with my hdr white balance.
It seems that with that firmware, white balance in SDR and HDR should measure about the same.
I have no meter right now to check it though.
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post #17141 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 09:50 AM
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okay guys and gals, i love my 65c8 except every once in a while, when i turn it on my hood range light comes on and sometimes even the fan...anybody else have this problem?...


i don't mind it so much if i was going to cook anyway...
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post #17142 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Guys,

I spoke with an engineering contact at LG and they wanted people to be understand the possible ramifications of turning on the engineering firmware setting in the service menu.

These are firmwares that have not went through the QC process yet, And may never be actually released. It is possible to get your TV on a firmware that has a major bug that is never released, And if they don’t release any subsequent higher numbered firmware, then you will be stuck on that one forever.
Thanks for the heads up! In my case I need not worry, for I NEVER enter the Service Menu for any reason.

I do hope, after this goes through the QC process, that it proves to be bug-free and is released to all owners.

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post #17143 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 10:35 AM
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Smitty and Otto: Unfortunately I don't think the MR has the capabilities that I am looking for, although it will turn the STB On/Off, control volume, and change channels. I do have Harmony 1 that I haven't programmed in years. If I can get the courage up, I just might give it a try. Thanks.
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post #17144 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 10:45 AM
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I thought it might help if some of us add links to JCC's last FAQing post and LiQiCE's Wiki in our signatures like I have below. JCC would then only need to edit his 5/11 post instead of re-posting it occasionally. Below is the code for the signature.

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[B][COLOR="Red"]C8/E8 Questions?[/COLOR][/B] Try [B][URL="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2962154-2018-lg-c8-e8-owners-thread-no-price-talk-565.html#post58033156"]JCC's_FAQ[/URL][/B]  Or  [B][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ry8n_C/sandbox"]LiQiCE's_Wiki[/URL][/B]
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post #17145 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 10:48 AM
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So LG says we shouldn't install engineering FW. That's suprising, I thought they would endorse it.
Thanks for the warning.

Also about their QC process:
Messed up gamma, delayed HDR luminance fluctuations, non functional mpeg noise reduction, ARC issues....
All these issues made it into final versions, despite there being a test version beforehand. I'm not sure what kind of people they have for testing but surely regular users would do a much better job at QC...
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post #17146 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
So LG says we shouldn't install engineering FW. That's suprising, I thought they would endorse it.
Thanks for the warning.

Also about their QC process:
Messed up gamma, delayed HDR luminance fluctuations, non functional mpeg noise reduction, ARC issues....
All these issues made it into final versions, despite there being a test version beforehand. I'm not sure what kind of people they have for testing but surely regular users would do a much better job at QC...
QA did not do a regression testing because of the assumption that their developer should not break something that's already ok lol

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post #17147 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TheModestGun View Post
Can anyone explain the Dynamic Tone Mapping to me? As far as I can tell, it seems like it’s modifying EOTF so highlight detail isn’t clipped, but it also seems like it’s bringing up low and mid tones?

With it on, is it tracking EOTF values on the lower luminance values or is it boosting them way out of wack?

I can’t tell if it’s depressing the tone curve with Dynamic Tone mapping off, or if it’s raising the EOTF curve way above spec with it on. But turning it off seems to clip highlight detail.

Anyone have good insights on this?
Covered by various other sources in better detail than I could in the past. I had thought that it simulates the simple metadata changes that HDR10+ would provide.

However this video from LG India shows it changing the whole curve, based on an analysis of the luminance levels of the picture (the grey bar graphs)

So I can easily agree that it's bringing up low and mid tones, if that is what you seeing, based on the bendy wavy lines on their graphs!

I would always defer to Vincent's explanation:
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post #17148 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 11:41 AM
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QA did not do a regression testing because of the assumption that their developer should not break something that's already ok lol

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post #17149 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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It's one of many minor bugs that will probably never get fixed. Only happens with the amazon app (as far as I know) and I think even 2017s have it. The problem is LG only fixes things when they get bad press, contacting their support about such things is pointless.
So I finally got around to calling their support and the guy told me that it's a problem with the Amazon app and I need to call Amazon about it (even though it's a setting on the TV that is affected, and it's with an app that comes pre-installed on the TV and has a button on the remote for it).

While going through the settings with him I noticed that the TrueMotion setting was disabled and I asked him why that is. He didn't have a clear answer for me but then all of a sudden he couldn't hear me and kept saying "hello", and then eventually hung up on me (after a half hour of trying to fix things). I then called back and spoke to another person, and he told them that the TrueMotion setting isn't something that can be controlled by the user and that it depends on the input to the TV. I told him that doesn't make sense because it's a setting the TV controls and I have been able to change it in the past. He put me on hold and the call then got disconnected.

What a joke their support is. I'm done with their phone support. I bet they get minimal training and just have scripts to follow because they both didn't exactly sound like experts on the TV.
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post #17150 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 11:52 AM
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Thanks for the warning.
It's very serious though, and people should heed it. Once I'd learned that this firmware blocks access to the "USB update" menu, that's it, game over. Do not install, otherwise you're on a one-way trip.

Quote:
Also about their QC process:
Messed up gamma, delayed HDR luminance fluctuations, non functional mpeg noise reduction, ARC issues....
You forgot permanent non-adjustable wrong lipsync timing on ARC.

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Thanks for the heads up! In my case I need not worry, for I NEVER enter the Service Menu for any reason.
I do hope, after this goes through the QC process, that it proves to be bug-free and is released to all owners.
Hopefully we all agree with that!

Those of us who do calibrate normally need to use the Service Menu to turn off Automatic Static Brightness Limiting with the "TPC Enable" setting (Thermal Protection Circuit).

Those of us in the UK who want to know how many hours the panel has been turned on for, a number which is freely available in the normal menus elsewhere and we have a right to know and not have it kept secret from us, are forced to go into the Service Menu to find out this number. So if LG really do care, and really do want to reduce the usages of the Service Menu, that's an easy thing for them to fix. Put it back in the "About this TV" menus so that we can see it.
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post #17151 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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It's very serious though, and people should heed it. Once I'd learned that this firmware blocks access to the "USB update" menu, that's it, game over. Do not install, otherwise you're on a one-way trip.
Yes, I was just a bit sarcastic because all of this was already known and very obvious even without talking to an LG engineer.
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post #17152 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 01:35 PM
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Yes, I was just a bit sarcastic because all of this was already known and very obvious even without talking to an LG engineer.
Maybe it's human nature to do something we're told not to like when your mother told you not to smoke pot but you did it anyway.
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post #17153 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 02:09 PM
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Question 1: It takes a bit of fiddling, but you can extensively customize the guide. It's been months since I did this, and I am miles from the television at the moment, so this will be a little vague, but I expect that just knowing you can do it, you'll be able to figure it out.


Basically, you can go into the guide and create a custom profile. In fact, you can create multiple profiles; we have two, one with all of the cable TV channels we actually get, and another with my wife's favorite channels. You can setup a profile, and manually add to it the channels, and only the channels, that you are actually subscribed to. The guide defaults to the last-used profile. This really makes the guide a breeze to use.


Question 2: My recommendation (what we did) is to get a decent soundbar and plug it into HDMI-2 (the ARC connection). Assuming that the C8 plays nicely with the CEC feature of the soundbar, the Magic remote will control the soundbar on / off and volume. Our C8 works perfectly with our 5 year old Samsung soundbar in this regard.

Thanks. I saw that you can go in and delete channels individually, etc. I was just trying to avoid having to manually delete 600 channels... Using a soundbar would be a massive step down in quality from my current setup so I will continue to try and sort it out and just use the 2 remotes for now.
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post #17154 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 02:13 PM
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Thanks - this is what I was trying to say. Regardless of whether it’s analog or optical - they’re not amplified signals. The cable box doesn’t control volume. It’s only the receiver that does that.

So as I mentioned - need to set up the remote to control the volume on the receiver (not sure if I can control two devices at once).

Thanks. I'm not sure what amplification has to do with it but I assure you I can currently control the volume going to my AV receiver via my cable/box remote. I simply need to get the Magic remote to fully mimic the functions of my cable remote.
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post #17155 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:26 PM
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What does everyone use for aspect ratio 16×9 or original ?

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post #17156 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:27 PM
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What is the purpose of set ID under General\About TV? Always wondered about this.
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post #17157 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
What is the purpose of set ID under General\About TV? Always wondered about this.
It is used if there are multiple TV's s hooked up to a switching system or a setup like in a bar. It's so they know which tv to switch to whatever they like. Basically a TV ID

TV - LG C8 & LG C6, AVR - Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro & Switch
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Living Room: LG 65C8, AVR Pioneer SC-LX502, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, Nintendo Switch
Bedroom: LG 55C6P, LG Soundbar NB3530A, Xbox One X
Link to LG C8PUA Firmware https://www.lg.com/us/support-produc...5C8PUA#manuals
Link to LG UH8500 & C6 Firmware http://www.lg.com/us/support-product...D55C6P#manuals
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post #17158 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 05:35 PM
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I updated the JCC FAQing Signature link to make it more direct to the post as suggested by @grittree .


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[B][COLOR=red]C8/E8 Questions?[/COLOR][/B] Try [B][URL="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/58033156-post16935.html"]JCC's_FAQ[/URL][/B]  Or  [B][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ry8n_C/sandbox"]LiQiCE's_Wiki[/URL][/B]
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C8/E8 Questions? Try JCC's_FAQ Or LiQiCE's_Wiki
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post #17159 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 06:06 PM
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Took delivery on my replacement C8 77 today and it came with FW 4.10.06. Should I update to the new FW or wait for the new one to be released? Thanks
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post #17160 of 19262 Old 05-15-2019, 06:45 PM
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What a joke their support is. I'm done with their phone support. I bet they get minimal training and just have scripts to follow because they both didn't exactly sound like experts on the TV.
So I tried calling back just to respond to their support survey and the guy I talked to actually seemed to be helpful this time. He couldn't tell me why my TruMotion setting kept getting disabled (not turned off but disabled) on various apps (e.g. Amazon, YouTube) so they're sending a technician to look at it now, LOL. I hoping it actually does something.
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