2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 593 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17761 of 21734 Old 05-31-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
^2.5 feetšŸ˜œ
True story! I like to eyegasm as close as possible. Like going to a movie theater, but with much, much better quality.

Cam, you mentioned you have a Q8 along with the Glorious C8. Can you give me your opinion between the 2, regarding punch and color tones when the Q8 is in total darkness?
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post #17762 of 21734 Old 05-31-2019, 09:37 PM
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^PM sent!
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post #17763 of 21734 Old 05-31-2019, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
I'm One of them! Actually 2.5 feet. I guess I am nutty!

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Originally Posted by calfcramp View Post
True story! I like to eyegasm as close as possible. Like going to a movie theater, but with much, much better quality.

I'm with you calfcramp! I am sitting 2.5 feet in front of my 77" right now typing this. But that's just when I'm in PC Mode. My normal viewing is 3 feet from the screen while watching video content. eyegasm indeed!


oops, and I've got another calf cramp coming on right now too...happens a lot!
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post #17764 of 21734 Old 05-31-2019, 10:07 PM
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^well cant blame you guys, im certain you get the full cinematic effect at that distance!
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post #17765 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by axle7 View Post
I am still following this thread since about 200 - 250 pages ago when I first got my 77c8. Thanks again to the experts and experienced users who post here. I really appreciate the info. I have very much been enjoying (and appreciating) the firmware discussions and info. And, I am actually not burnt out on the FW posts as I am still on .15 waiting for things to shake out. My panel does indeed exhibit chrominance overshoot (flashing, black macroblocking, Gail Gadot) on some near-black content but everything else about the panel is amazingly great. I appreciate that LG continues to work on a new FW that will improve this.
Awesome, and I agree

Quote:
It is interesting to me that the overall PQ improves so much during/after the first 200 hours of use. I definitely observed this with my panel and I wonder why this happens.
I'm new to OLED myself but I think it's the initial ageing of the pixels, from new. They need time to settle down. A bit like a new car's brand new engine is very "tight" and you have to be careful how you drive it for the first 1,000 miles.

Quote:
I do have a couple of questions:

What is the difference between the comp cycle (auto run every 4 hours when TV turned off) and the pixel refresher cycle (auto run every 2000 hours or manual)? I am wondering what the control electronics is doing and what is chemically being performed on the individual pixels.
The daily one is much gentler. There were some posts a while back where someone went into more details. Luckily I made notes

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post56176406
Quote:
The reason why the compensation cycle appears to make banding worse is because it's re-adjusting the brightness of all the pixels in an effort to normalize the light output of the panel making any differences in adjacent pixels more pronounced resulting in any banding more visible to the eye. As you use the set the pixels will be more randomized and any perceived banding will fade even with subsequent compensation cycles.
This is the "golden reply" for me:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post56453918
Quote:
At a high level the process attempts to find the dimmest pixel or group of pixels depending on how the algorithm is implemented, and then lowers the rest of the pixels to achieve uniformity. In reality, this adjustment should be very small but if you do it repeatedly, it could degrade the panel over time. I believe the "one time" vs the incremental 4 hr clear screen is just more aggressive. This process is definitely done at the factory because its not possible to get every pixel on the panel to emit the same amount of light which is why some panels are slightly brighter than others when you measure their peak luminance. In all my time calibrating, I've never seen a problem doing this once during the break in period to "level out" and or get rid of screen retention from the factory if it needs it. The reason why sometimes banding is more pronounced after this process is because it brings the pixel brightness back to what the algorithm thinks is optimal and uniform making the non-linearity of the panel more noticeable. As you use the set, the pixels are used in a random fashion and over time they become more random and banding less noticeable.

As to reports of issues such as one half of the screen looking darker than the other after this process, etc.. If this happens, it's time to return the set for another which is another good reason to do one clear screen during break in if it needs it so you know during the warranty or return period vs a year later.

I got this information from a LG software engineer who was at the ISF class last year.

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post #17766 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
Just got my LG 77" C8 oled delivered today. Got a great price, there are a lot bargains out there now.
It's a different kind picture. Not sure if it's as sharp as the Q9FN but the colors are richer. Takes time to break in I suppose. Love the size.
It is a interesting part of the year, you have last years model being clearanced and the new model at a higher price but looking all sparkly with the new improvements, but are they worth the cash ?
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post #17767 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:23 AM
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It is a interesting part of the year, you have last years model being clearanced and the new model at a higher price but looking all sparkly with the new improvements, but are they worth the cash ?
Really probably depends on the price you get on the clearance one. I picked up a 55 C8 on clearance (really the max size I can get for my specialized living room stand). Almost got a 65 for my bedroom but I am sticking with the old Kuro for now. If it was only a couple of hundred dollars Iā€™d buy the new one for the newest features but some of the clearance deals are insane so it would be pretty hard to justify the price difference.
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post #17768 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BigZ12 View Post
That's a very good tip! Thanks! Could you list your settings?
I'm mostly using PC mode with ISF Expert bright for SDR and Cinema or Technicolor for HDR.
Sharpness is at 0 (even 10 could make some fonts look funny).

Pixel shift is disabled because it's very apparent from such a close distance

Apart from TV settings there are some things you can configure in Windows to improve the image (especially fonts).
The ClearType Text Tuner is recommended to improve text anti-aliasing.
Note that if you use Chrome, that browser has it's own text anti-aliasing and to enable the grayscale variant of it, you need to disable "LCD text antialiasing" under flags.
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post #17769 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinz80 View Post
I'm mostly using PC mode with ISF Expert bright for SDR and Cinema or Technicolor for HDR.
Sharpness is at 0 (even 10 could make some fonts look funny).

Pixel shift is disabled because it's very apparent from such a close distance

Apart from TV settings there are some things you can configure in Windows to improve the image (especially fonts).
The ClearType Text Tuner is recommended to improve text anti-aliasing.
Note that if you use Chrome, that browser has it's own text anti-aliasing and to enable the grayscale variant of it, you need to disable "LCD text antialiasing" under flags.
Thanks, I will try it out.
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post #17770 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:51 AM
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Was watching the craptastic movie Insidious the last key the other day in a dark room and noticed some very slight flashing in a few dark scenes. I am on .31 firmware. Watched via the HBO GO app on Apple TV. This super dark movie is a torture test for near black garbage.
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post #17771 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 02:32 PM
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^^^ Speaking of really dark movies I was watching "Last of the Mohicans" yesterday. I had forgotten how dark that movie was shot, but the C8 handled it. I thought I would loose detail and have crushed blacks but it looked good. Looks like everything was shot with available fire light and torch light.
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post #17772 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 02:49 PM
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Finally watched GOT! Iā€™m on season 5. Now I see why you guys were raving about this show on this TV. Truly beautiful!


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post #17773 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 04:20 PM
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HBOGOs compression really shows on the OLED. I ended up buying S1 of GOT in 4K and the others in blu-Ray. Trying to watch s8 on the app was painful.
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post #17774 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBO View Post
I'm with you calfcramp! I am sitting 2.5 feet in front of my 77" right now typing this. But that's just when I'm in PC Mode. My normal viewing is 3 feet from the screen while watching video content. eyegasm indeed!


oops, and I've got another calf cramp coming on right now too...happens a lot!
Lol!

77 Incher? Okay, how do you handle that at 2.5 ft away? I have a 55 and I am 6'1. My neck would be killing me, I think. I would sit back another foot at 77, but I can't see me using a keyboard on my lap!
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post #17775 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 07:59 PM
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I just got done watching the UHD copy of Apollo 13. It looked absolutely phenomenal on my 77" OLED, especially the "space scenes!" The "blackness of space" was stunning, serving as an amazing background for dazzling, bright stars. In case anyone would want to read a short review, I just posted this on the "Blu-ray PQ Thread for Discussion":

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post58129122

Obviously, I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND seeing this on your OLED!!
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post #17776 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 08:08 PM
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^just got done watching First Man, and its stunning as well!
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post #17777 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 08:17 PM
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I just received my 55” E8 today and am somewhat concerned with how the stand is. It feels a little more wobbly than I would expect. Looking at the bottom, the left side (as I’m facing it) is not flush. I’m trying to attach a photo here which I hope shows it. Is this normal or are they any guesses about the cause ?
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post #17778 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 09:30 PM
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^That's not normal assuming the cabinet underneath is perfectly flat, which you can't really tell from that picture. Obviously you could put just the stand itself on a perfectly flat surface and you'd know right away if the stand is bad.
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post #17779 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 09:35 PM
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Black Detail Crushing LG FW 04.10.55 with ability to revert to FW 04.10.15

Black Detail Crushing LG FW 04.10.55 and ability to revert to FW 04.10.15

I know that this has been discussed here before but I wanted to put everything into one thread for anyone having this issue as it totally ruined my C877 TV. My son thought he was doing me a favor and "upgraded" to the new FW and it destroyed the black level details and ruined the TV! It's one thing to read about it in these forum and another thing to experience it first hand.

Here's why it's happening after you upgrade to FW 04.10.55 and how its not a figment of your imagination

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58026418

Here is the 4.10.15 for C8PUA USA:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...3B?usp=sharing The MD5 hash is: fe5aaaa56eaaa3f779eb46c88f9ecbd9

Here's the App "SURE" remote control software from Google Playstore to revert back the FW.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ities&hl=en_GB

Or from Apple App iOS
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sure...097801576?mt=8

Instructions:
Put 4.10.15 onto a USB Flashdrive under a root directory of LG_DTV and insert into TV's USB port
Connect the phone to tv using the same network, then click "find LG tv"
Click on the software/firmware tab when set up and tv found is done via SURE software.
Select update software via USB Flashdrive using 4.10.15 FW
Click Update, FW will update and then it will turn off tv and once restarted you'll have FW 04.10.15 and your tv back to normal!

Here's a video to walk you thru it with the UK version of 4.10.20 but the steps are the same for US version 4.10.15 - the only issue is the audio quality is not that good but has decent screen shots.

Hopefully this is helpful to others and more easily discoverable via search engines until 05.x0.00 is official released - and thanks to members Tool Belt, jk82, jacko5, MrStruders, Macmane for their past contributions on this matter!
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SCG

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post #17780 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 09:40 PM
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^Except that .31 and up looks much cleaner near black after you bump up the low end. This has been beaten to death.

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post #17781 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 09:50 PM
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I was clear on my reason to condense everything into one post and most newbies won't know or take the time to bump up the low end of .31 and will just be happy to get back to .15 black levels - and if anyone feels that this post is redundant it because it's not for them, it's for others.
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post #17782 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
most newbies won't know or take the time to bump up the low end of .31 and will just be happy to get back to .15 black levels
Except the gamma adjustment is probably faster and easier for most people (it's all in the regular user menu) and should be considered "safer" (especially for "noobs" - people in general who are not experienced with similar "tricky" methods). A lot of things might go wrong when somebody tries to blindly follow a guide like that (involving unofficial expert tools which weren't meant to be used by end users) with no real understanding and experience (no matter how good the guide is, there is often potential for accidental user error).
Don't get me wrong, I personally take that kind of risk (and bigger ones) pretty much all the time and rarely try to keep anyone away from information like that but I usually also try to point out the risks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz80 View Post
I've used the C8 for about a year now as a PC monitor, and even with TPC disabled in the service menu I experienced the same behavior.
But strangely enough this happens only in SDR mode. If you enable HDR in Windows and disable dynamic tone mapping, the gradually dimming and brightening again in those steps is over. Using HDR on the desktop in Windows looks great in my opinion, it's not washed out or too dim (there's a slider too make SDR content brighter).
Yes, the OLED light is at 100 constantly, but it's all about the perceived brightness. I've measured the power usage and it's about the same in comparison with SDR and equal brightness.
To this date I have not had any image retention let alone burn in. The set has over 1800 hours on it.
The HDR Windows desktop mode is a real-time gamut conversion (similar to how the TV's processor maps the colors between standard input formats and the native panel gamut). It was initially done by the CPU and is now offloaded to the GPU (at least that's what I observed on my PC, there is probably some GPU driver and hardware requirement for the HW offload, so might not work on all HDR capable systems and falls back to the CPU). Both can cause clearly visible quality degradation (it's not placebo but merely "good enough" quality because it's still not optimized, there is no dedicated hardware engine for it in today's GPUs and it's probably done by the shader processors), increased power consumption (potential heat and thus noise if your have air cooling) and obviously unwelcomed for video games (lower framerate - and I am not sure but could increase latency as well). Not to mention 2160p60 is limited to 8bit RGB (so HDR10 will be dithered) and YCC 4:2:2 for non-video contents is worse than news-dimming.

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Last edited by janos666; 06-01-2019 at 10:41 PM.
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post #17783 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
The most important thing is, the Bose is working well for you. Satisfaction is a precious commodity! Enjoy!
The Sennheiser Ambeo soundbar is available for pre order (i already put mine in), and is due to ship on June 12. It may well be overkill for many applications (and the $2500 price tag will make it out of reach for some), but if the buzz on this is correct, it could be a game changer. Coming from a full-blown, 4 ceiling full-range, 7.4 dual 18ā€ subwoofer system, Iā€™m hoping to get at least a reasonable facsimile of the former glory my system allowed me to experience. Iā€™m hoping it will be a worthy match for my 77ā€ OLED and I will mention it here briefly, but I do want to be considerate of the other OLED owners who may not have an interest in this, and there is a dedicated thread for this product.

You are right and I am enjoying the Bose. Even more starting today. I had a minor epiphany and just decided to forego for a short while the PS4 I seldom use to open its HDMI port and switched out the optical cable for HDMI to now get the Soundbar's full potential via the C8 ARC port #2 . I ordered from Amazon an HDMI 4 in 1 out HDMI switch to accommodate my other source components.

I was reading the Senheiser Ambeo Soundbar thread and hope it serves you well. I am amazed at its potential with 13 4" drivers delivering without separate bass or surrounds. My apartment is too oblong to work well with such a sound reflecting system. I just a month ago gave away an old 400w Carver receiver I've had since 1984 that created an expansive sound field for stereo with the voodoo of Sonic Holography. I loved it but don't miss it with today's advancements. The Bose Soundbar creates an even larger sound field even in stereo. I'll look for your results in that other thread.
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post #17784 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
I was clear on my reason to condense everything into one post and most newbies won't know or take the time to bump up the low end of .31 and will just be happy to get back to .15 black levels - and if anyone feels that this post is redundant it because it's not for them, it's for others.
.31 and up ruining the TV is the message you are telling newbies?

Bumping up the low end is more difficult for newbies that getting an app and going through several steps to change a firmware to a previous version?

"Your TV is back to normal"? Near black chroma overshoot is normal?

My advice to newbies is to wait for the official LG firmware update that will address all issues and bring the set to where it should be.
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post #17785 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pwiss View Post
.31 and up ruining the TV is the message you are telling newbies?



Bumping up the low end is more difficult for newbies that getting an app and going through several steps to change a firmware to a previous version?



"Your TV is back to normal"? Near black chroma overshoot is normal?



My advice to newbies is to wait for the official LG firmware update that will address all issues and bring the set to where it should be.
It's still useful for the "hey I wanna downgrade my firmware or does anyone have a copy with instructions on how to downgrade my firmware" crowd. For the ones who dont mind the firmware then kool ignore it for the ones who want to knw how to just bump up the low ends kool as well they can ignore it but I've seen alot of the "how can I downgrade my firmware crowd In here and that's the audience he's trying to speak to. Just sayin

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post #17786 of 21734 Old 06-01-2019, 10:58 PM
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Lol!

77 Incher? Okay, how do you handle that at 2.5 ft away? I have a 55 and I am 6'1. My neck would be killing me, I think. I would sit back another foot at 77, but I can't see me using a keyboard on my lap!



I use a folding TV tray stand for my keyboard and mouse. The C8 is on a 24" high entertainment stand and being 6'5" my eyes are level with the center of the C8 while I sit on my lazyboy. When I recline back to watch video my toes nearly touch the soundbar.
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post #17787 of 21734 Old 06-02-2019, 01:17 AM
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The HDR Windows desktop mode is a real-time gamut conversion (similar to how the TV's processor maps the colors between standard input formats and the native panel gamut). It was initially done by the CPU and is now offloaded to the GPU (at least that's what I observed on my PC, there is probably some GPU driver and hardware requirement for the HW offload, so might not work on all HDR capable systems and falls back to the CPU). Both can cause clearly visible quality degradation (it's not placebo but merely "good enough" quality because it's still not optimized, there is no dedicated hardware engine for it in today's GPUs and it's probably done by the shader processors), increased power consumption (potential heat and thus noise if your have air cooling) and obviously unwelcomed for video games (lower framerate - and I am not sure but could increase latency as well). Not to mention 2160p60 is limited to 8bit RGB (so HDR10 will be dithered) and YCC 4:2:2 for non-video contents is worse than news-dimming.
Thanks for the information. Yes, I know what I'm using isn't ideal, but I haven't really come across the disadvantages you mention.
On the desktop, CPU and GPU usage is still very low (the CPU and GPU stay below 30C most of the time).
Before starting a SDR game, I always disable HDR in Windows. I've made a shortcut with AutoHotkey which enables me to switch between HDR and SDR by pressing Win+H.
2160p60 is indeed limited to 8bit RGB (I'm using YCbCr444), but the dithering somehow manages to produce less banding than feeding the TV a native 10-bit signal.
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post #17788 of 21734 Old 06-02-2019, 01:48 AM
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Thanks for the information. Yes, I know what I'm using isn't ideal, but I haven't really come across the disadvantages you mention.
On the desktop, CPU and GPU usage is still very low (the CPU and GPU stay below 30C most of the time).
Before starting a SDR game, I always disable HDR in Windows. I've made a shortcut with AutoHotkey which enables me to switch between HDR and SDR by pressing Win+H.
2160p60 is indeed limited to 8bit RGB (I'm using YCbCr444), but the dithering somehow manages to produce less banding than feeding the TV a native 10-bit signal.
I compared the CPU and GPU utilization between SDR and HDR desktop modes while playing an SDR movie in a big window (not fullscreen). I guess it could be somewhat optimized for static desktop (might even recognizes unchanged mosaic pieces of the screen if not only the completely unchanged frames in succession) or may be simply got faster over time.


PC mode has reduced precision which introduces more prominent banding in HDR mode (when compared to SDR and normal HDMI modes). In that case dithered 8bit can easily look better.
Why do you use YCC 4:4:4 though? The TV can handle Full RGB just fine and HDMI 2.0 is the smallest tube between the display panel and the GPU. That RGB->YCC conversion would add visible banding without dithering (which is unnecessary if you use RGB).
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Last edited by janos666; 06-02-2019 at 01:52 AM.
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post #17789 of 21734 Old 06-02-2019, 01:51 AM
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I've noticed really bad graininess on my 65 C8 on content on Netflix and HBO. Graininess that isn't there on my 720p Google Chromebook. I took a picture using my Pixel 2 of the DeadWood Movie, in the opening scene. You can see the graininess in the sky.

https://i.imgur.com/4Hiv09b.jpg

Is this normal?

It's very distracting. I'm wondering if this is a fault with my TV or LG? Do Sony Oled's have similar graininess?
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post #17790 of 21734 Old 06-02-2019, 03:36 AM
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E8 built-in speakers resonate/rattle

I've recently bought a 55" E8 and I'm delighted with the picture. However, I'm having some issues with the sound.

In terms of audio quality I've found the built-in speakers to be fine for general use, and reasonably good for films and drama. As I have quite a large lounge I have to have the volume over 50%, and when that happens I hear a distinctive 'rattle' or vibration from the TV. This is triggered by bass notes and even some bassy voices. I can't work out whether the rattle is coming from the speaker cabinet or elsewhere on the TV. I thought it might be from the casing at the back.

It's very annoying and I can't believe that this would be acceptable for a premium TV, so perhaps something is loose, or a speaker cone has blown? I've deselected all audio processing and under 'Standard' settings I've used the equaliser to roll off 100hz and 300hz to minus 10, but the rattle still occurs.

Does anyone else have the same issue? If not then it could be classed as a fault and I may return the TV under warranty. If you've managed to cure it I'd love to know how.
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