2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 598 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17911 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 07:39 AM
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It has come to the point where everyone talks about calibration as if we were editing on home TVs ... let's not be so drastic and say things by name. On the cinema, isf - the TV has an error of less than 3 ∆e on the white balance, Calman says that what is less than 3∆e, in theory the eye should not differ, so the calibration in the factory is pretty good .
It is written here about the differences between the panels and it was given an example with a very old plasma. In fact, if the screens are the same pixel configuration, the variations are quite small. Of those great calibrators, you will not recommend sharing them with others. Part of the screen variations are tested on the screen of my TV, after being changed, the difference in white balance was only 0.3 ∆e from the previous screen, but remember, be the same pixel structure.
Manual calibration will not get the perfection of the automatic, with the exposition Vincent says.
In conclusion, the TVs can be seen without a calibration, but for those who want to have a reference screen and something to play with, no "SD" signal is worth it. Otherwise, it is a matter of taste and the possibility. I posted later the result of manual calibration of my TV ... you can try it and make your own opinion.
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post #17912 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I think the main reason for not sharing calibrated settings is that they are specific to a panel based on the various component tolerances so that what looks great on one panel may not look so good on another panel. That in turn may result in some folks, who don't understand the difference between calibration and adjustment, think that the "borrowed" settings were not done correctly by the calibrator. Even if the borrowed settings work (look good) on your panel, that doesn't mean you have a calibrated panel. All you've done is adjust your panel to another panel.
Thinking some more about this, If I was a calibrator I would not want settings getting passed around because when the numbers do not aline with a panel it will look worse and at that point a guy may think, see calibration is worthless. Most of us know if calibration was free from Chad B or D-Nice, I am in
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post #17913 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
It has come to the point where everyone talks about calibration as if we were editing on home TVs ... let's not be so drastic and say things by name. On the cinema, isf - the TV has an error of less than 3 ∆e on the white balance, Calman says that what is less than 3∆e, in theory the eye should not differ, so the calibration in the factory is pretty good .
It is written here about the differences between the panels and it was given an example with a very old plasma. In fact, if the screens are the same pixel configuration, the variations are quite small. Of those great calibrators, you will not recommend sharing them with others. Part of the screen variations are tested on the screen of my TV, after being changed, the difference in white balance was only 0.3 ∆e from the previous screen, but remember, be the same pixel structure.
Manual calibration will not get the perfection of the automatic, with the exposition Vincent says.
In conclusion, the TVs can be seen without a calibration, but for those who want to have a reference screen and something to play with, no "SD" signal is worth it. Otherwise, it is a matter of taste and the possibility. I posted later the result of manual calibration of my TV ... you can try it and make your own opinion.

My panel would strongly disagree.

This is how my isf-bright default preset looked like with fw 04.10.15 (with .31 or .55 it would be even more off). I already noticed the lack of green with my eyes before I had a meter. But even worse than the white balance which has a lack of green is the crushed low-end. Calibrated this TV looks fine but uncalibrated I'd consider it unwatchable or even faulty...

Also I find Deta E values to be very meaningless, the worst range on my panel is the low-end and yet it shows the smallest error rate...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinicio Anthone View Post
I wonder if @jk82 can teach me which meter you got? And if you can point the direction of how you did it?
I just have a i1Display Pro. Without a spectro you won't get an absolute correct white point but my panel was off so much that I could already see it with my eyes. Also I found that correcting the gamma curve was even more important. Just check out the HCFR or Calman threads in the 'Display Calibration' sub forum if you want to get into calibration.
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post #17914 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 08:32 AM
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I've looked at your chart and something does not seem right to me ... I say that because oleds lack, especially red and not green. Somehow they vary to green or blue, I put this on account of the lack of professional equipment and hcfr use. But so, your chart is strange or walked in the service menu. At hcfr what settings do you have, something on your chart is wrong and the variation is very high ... but it can be misleading me!
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post #17915 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 08:38 AM
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I've looked at your chart and something does not seem right to me ... I say that because oleds lack, especially red and not green. Somehow they vary to green or blue, I put this on account of the lack of professional equipment and hcfr use. But so, your chart is strange or walked in the service menu. At hcfr what settings do you have, something on your chart is wrong and the variation is very high ... but it can be misleading me!
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post #17916 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 08:39 AM
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Not to mention that up to 40% seems to be all right, but if you look at the chart, with the repetitions of the colloidal lines, they appear from 0 to 40% debalnsate and not according to the graph with an insensible error ... I hope you understand what I'm talking about. I tend to think your hcfr settings are not correct.
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post #17917 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 08:59 AM
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The shown delta E values are without taking gamma into account, I forgot to turn that on but even then the results aren't much different.

Believe what you want but those graphs match with what my eyes see and if you look at the default service menu settings which chros73 posted (9 points more green than the defaults of my TV) that just shows how much variance there is and if you get a replacement panel you will still have the values of the old panel in the service menu.
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post #17918 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:16 AM
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I do not want to go into a contradictory discussion with you, but I saw a lot of c8s and did not look so bad. Aside from the joke, you measured with an unprofiled device with a free program that is good, but not always. No offense, but what you have on the chart does not seem right at all and I do not think I can take it for reference. I1 being unprofilled, without knowing your hcfr gamma settings, I do not think it's far from right what pseudo calibration you did. I copied below from rtings site their measurements, which can be easily found for everyone.

Measurements are made before calibration:
"White Balance dE
: 2.52
Color dE
: 2.11
Gamma
: 2.15
Color Temperature
: 6055 K
Picture Mode
: Expert (Dark Room)
Color Temp Setting
: Warm 2
Gamma Setting
: 2.2
The most accurate results before calibration were on the 'Expert (Dark Room)' picture mode, with the Gamma setting changed to 2.2. Out of the box, the color accuracy and white balance are good, although the temperature is bit warm so the colors are shifted a bit yellow. "
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post #17919 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:21 AM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
I do not want to go into a contradictory discussion with you, but I saw a lot of c8s and did not look so bad. Aside from the joke, you measured with an unprofiled device with a free program that is good, but not always. No offense, but what you have on the chart does not seem right at all and I do not think I can take it for reference. I1 being unprofilled, without knowing your hcfr gamma settings, I do not think it's far from right what pseudo calibration you did. I copied below from rtings site their measurements, which can be easily found for everyone.



Measurements are made before calibration:

"White Balance dE

: 2.52

Color dE

: 2.11

Gamma

: 2.15

Color Temperature

: 6055 K

Picture Mode

: Expert (Dark Room)

Color Temp Setting

: Warm 2

Gamma Setting

: 2.2

The most accurate results before calibration were on the 'Expert (Dark Room)' picture mode, with the Gamma setting changed to 2.2. Out of the box, the color accuracy and white balance are good, although the temperature is bit warm so the colors are shifted a bit yellow. "


So you are in expert and everyone else here doesn’t know how to calibrate because panels vary ? I don’t know what your overall point is , are you saying that nobody’s panel needs calibrating or that your settings are the gold standard and everyone should apply them as reference ?

Either way from my experience jk82 knows his stuff , you on the other hand I don’t know you , reserving judgement on bowing down to your unsurpassed expertise .

Excuse me if I am skeptical your posting history here isn’t the best .
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post #17920 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
I do not want to go into a contradictory discussion with you...."

You're completely ignoring the fact that there are panel specific WB settings in the service menu which can vary highly from one TV to another and that these do not get corrected when you get a replacement panel.
I never said that my panel represents what the average C8 looks like at default settings....

Also I'm too lazy to search for that now but one of my first comments in this thread when I got the replacement panel was that the low end is very crushed. This was something I immediately noticed and I didn't even have a meter or calibration back then...

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post #17921 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:39 AM
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Hey guys...I was watching Dead to Me (fairly good show actually) on Netflix and I noticed during a dim scene where the picture was quite dark then transitioned to normal again. I tried to replay the scene but it appeared normal every time I replayed it. My wife even noticed that this happened. I am using an Apple TV4K and was watching with Dolby Vision. I thought I remember someone mentioning this a while back but can’t find the posts. Any suggestions?

FW 4.10.55
This post kind of got lost in the shuffle...anyone experience this before? Thanks!
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post #17922 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:40 AM
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Chunon - I write what I see when I calibrate, and post and intentionally reference the site of the "Rtings" which is one of the more known to the general public to prove that I did not fake the measurements ... the measurements made with the performance equipment by the guys from rthings. My measurements, made with "k10", and you come and tell me you do not believe me, but you think of him that is correct, that writes above, he measured with free hcrf soft with i1 unprofiled ... ( a 250$ device) I do not know you and I do not think it worthw hile to go into the polemic with you, but you are far from the truth, nice day!
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post #17923 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
Chunon - I write what I see when I calibrate, and post and intentionally reference the site of the "Rtings" which is one of the more known to the general public to prove that I did not fake the measurements ... the measurements made with the performance equipment by the guys from rthings. My measurements, made with "k10", and you come and tell me you do not believe me, but you think of him that is correct, that writes above, he measured with free hcrf soft with i1 unprofiled ... ( a 250$ device) I do not know you and I do not think it worthw hile to go into the polemic with you, but you are far from the truth, nice day!


Your translator or whatever you are using to post is causing issues , I am having a hard time parsing what you are saying . As far the Klein goes nice meter but we are all on equal footing regardless of the equipment we own. I find it curious you were ranting about motion a few weeks ago and now you are a professional calibrator


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post #17924 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
I've looked at your chart and something does not seem right to me ... I say that because oleds lack, especially red and not green. Somehow they vary to green or blue, I put this on account of the lack of professional equipment and hcfr use. But so, your chart is strange or walked in the service menu. At hcfr what settings do you have, something on your chart is wrong and the variation is very high ... but it can be misleading me!
Oh I also just remembered this:


Why did D-Nice recommend this then? Lowering red and blue means lack of green. This basically goes in the same direction as my calibration and is the exact opposite of what you say.
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post #17925 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Oh I also just remembered this:


Why did D-Nice recommend this then? Lowering red and blue means lack of green. This basically goes in the same direction as my calibration and is the exact opposite of what you say.


That matches my experience with my panel when I have done manual calibrations .


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post #17926 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
This post kind of got lost in the shuffle...anyone experience this before? Thanks!


I have never seen that but I would just chalk up to an anomaly if you can’t duplicate it .


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post #17927 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:54 AM
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@jk82 : I think there was a slew of reviews and people who calibrated the OLEDs in the past said that they exhibited more reds. I think that is where this guy is coming from, could be wrong. But, I think things have changed from the 6-series. Also when you first calibrated this set the comparison plots with new SW updates would also be great!
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post #17928 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 09:59 AM
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2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanman View Post
@jk82 : I think there was a slew of reviews and people who calibrated the OLEDs in the past said that they exhibited more reds. I think that is where this guy is coming from, could be wrong. But, I think things have changed from the 6-series. Also when you first calibrated this set the comparison plots with new SW updates would also be great!


Red is over saturated that is a totally different issue , I believe that’s what you are referring to ? At any rate despite what anyone says here the sets can and do come out of the factory with variance . There is not some magical process going on at lg . Yes sets are generally more accurate ootb than in past years but to say there is no panel variance is a pipe dream .


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post #17929 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 10:05 AM
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You do not understand, because you do not want to understand. I was talking about "motion" because it is true, there are problems with stutter to all oleds on 24p, Now, when I come up with arguments you change the subject ... you do not think it is appropriate to abstain if you are not good enough and let others make the right comments. I do not think I have to give you an account of what I do and what equipment I have. It is a public forum and I think we can all write what we want.
Unfortunately for you, I speak documented and bring evidence in support of what I say. You, on the other hand, come and tell me you do not know me and you do not believe me ... as if you are the only one on the forum...
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One thing to take into consideration when looking at OOTB calibration is if you don't profile your meter and it's off, any readings are going to make the factory calibration look worse assuming it's set to D65 at the factory and the calibration is "good".
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post #17931 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinelionut View Post
You do not understand, because you do not want to understand. I was talking about "motion" because it is true, there are problems with stutter to all oleds on 24p, Now, when I come up with arguments you change the subject ... you do not think it is appropriate to abstain if you are not good enough and let others make the right comments. I do not think I have to give you an account of what I do and what equipment I have. It is a public forum and I think we can all write what we want.

Unfortunately for you, I speak documented and bring evidence in support of what I say. You, on the other hand, come and tell me you do not know me and you do not believe me ... as if you are the only one on the forum...


I still don’t understand what your point is ? At no time did I say your readings are bogus , my only contention is that is your particular settings don’t match up to someone else’s it doesn’t make the other settings invalid . Moving on now.


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post #17932 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 10:37 AM
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@chunon : It was red saturation. But I wonder if the other guy was insinuating to that issue, that's all!
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post #17933 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 10:39 AM
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@chunon : It was red saturation. But I wonder if the other guy was insinuating to that issue, that's all!


Maybe , he seemed to be questioning the white balance settings to me that’s a separate issue.


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post #17934 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 10:51 AM
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I think you misread my post. I meant Enabling TruMotion disables Real Cinema. Even if Real Cinema displays 'On' it is off when TruMotion is enabled.
This has been discussed before many times in this thread (please do a search), and sorry but I don't think you are correct. Real Cinema is a completely separate thing, and you definitely want it to be "on" for 24Hz or 23.997Hz content.
Otherwise with RealCinema off, the TV displays 24p input as 60p - meaning you get 3:2 pulldown judder, even on 24p sources.

The TV won't let you turn it on if the input signal isn't 24Hz or 23.997Hz since it's only for those refresh rates.

EDIT: I see that @jk82 beat me to it
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post #17935 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Maybe , he seemed to be questioning the white balance settings to me that’s a separate issue.


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He must have stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
Out of the blue no less. Would love to see these posts on the calibration thread where they would likely get a little more review and discussion.
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post #17936 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 11:40 AM
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This post kind of got lost in the shuffle...anyone experience this before? Thanks!
You appear to be describing "ASBL" dimming. There's a dedicated thread discussing it HERE.
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post #17937 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
You're completely ignoring the fact that there are panel specific WB settings in the service menu which can vary highly from one TV to another and that these do not get corrected when you get a replacement panel.
I never said that my panel represents what the average C8 looks like at default settings....

Also I'm too lazy to search for that now but one of my first comments in this thread when I got the replacement panel was that the low end is very crushed. This was something I immediately noticed and I didn't even have a meter or calibration back then...
It would be nice if they could do some basic calibration after replacing panel, at least to state which meets factory quality tolerance...which I think is pretty good at nowdays, like technicolor (warm1) where they even count in metamerism correction.


btw, that factory default gamma seems much better when zoom out scale of graph
Picture shows how warm1 looks with D65 white point and when set to technicolor custom wp.
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Last edited by Make73; 06-05-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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post #17938 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This has been discussed before many times in this thread (please do a search), and sorry but I don't think you are correct. Real Cinema is a completely separate thing, and you definitely want it to be "on" for 24Hz or 23.997Hz content.
Otherwise with RealCinema off, the TV displays 24p input as 60p - meaning you get 3:2 pulldown judder, even on 24p sources.

The TV won't let you turn it on if the input signal isn't 24Hz or 23.997Hz since it's only for those refresh rates.

EDIT: I see that @jk82 beat me to it
I didn't disagree with anything @jk82 posted. However, someone had posted a question regarding whether they should use TruMotion 0 Dejudder 0 Deblur and also set Real Cinema to On. To try and answer that question, my point was that on my C8 (UK models may be different), this is what I have observed in the Picture Options menu:

  • If TruMotion is ON, Real Cinema is greyed out in the menu and can not be changed. Real Cinema displays ON or OFF depending on what was lasted selected, but it is greyed out and cannot be changed. Per JK82, "Enabling or disabling Real Cinema before enabling TruMotion makes no difference." And "Real Cinema is used to display 24 fps content at proper 5:5 cadence (120Hz panel). Enabling TruMotion and setting it to 0 does the exact same thing."

  • If TruMotion is OFF, Real Cinema can be changed to ON or OFF.

In addition, on my US C8, the above Menu behavior applies to both 24p and 60p signals.

So my post was just to point out to the OP that if he wants TruMotion On DJ0/DB0, there is no point to try and enable Real Cinema since it is disabled/not active.

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C8/E8 Questions? Try JCC's_FAQ Or LiQiCE's_Wiki

Last edited by jdbimmer; 06-05-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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post #17939 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 03:59 PM
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Curious why my HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color setting is grayed out when I watch something on Netflix? Doesn't matter if it's DV, 4K or regular HD.
Now the setting is not grayed out when I watch Directv. I set it on when I first got the set.
I'm guessing it's because I am watching Netflix on the internal app and there is no HDMI hookup.
Am I still getting Deep Color with the internal app?
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post #17940 of 23727 Old 06-05-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
Curious why my HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color setting is grayed out when I watch something on Netflix? Doesn't matter if it's DV, 4K or regular HD.
Now the setting is not grayed out when I watch Directv. I set it on when I first got the set.
I'm guessing it's because I am watching Netflix on the internal app and there is no HDMI hookup.
Am I still getting Deep Color with the internal app?


That setting is not applicable for the internal apps, it is only for hdmi sources to allow the higher bandwidth necessary for hdr content .


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