2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 644 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19291 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I just picked this up at Best Buy this afternoon and will be watching it on Friday or Saturday. The movie itself had mixed reviews (how did you guys like it?) but Ralph's scores on the PQ/AQ made it a no-brainer for me!
My wife and I liked the movie djoberg.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/shazam
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post #19292 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 06:32 PM
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Well, I finally (somewhat reluctantly) took the plunge and downloaded FW 05.10.03 from the Korean website. I was very thankful for being able to use WinZip in this process. I had tried this yesterday but I only had one OLD Flashdrive laying around that lacked the space for the download. So, when I picked up a couple of UHD Blu-rays today at Best Buy I also grabbed a few SanDisk Flashdrives.

In open disclosure, it took me awhile to figure some things out but once the unzipped file was downloaded to the Flashdrive the actual update on my display only took a few minutes. I do have some other things to attend to but once I finish them I will definitely be checking out the improvements. I still have some pretty bad scenes (with terrible "black crush") recorded to use as a measuring stick.

One more thing. I had asked everyone who had done the FW Update if you did a factory reset on your Technicolor Expert Picture Mode or did it automatically default to the original settings with the update. I'd love to hear from you on that.
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post #19293 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Well, I finally (somewhat reluctantly) took the plunge and downloaded FW 05.10.03 from the Korean website. I was very thankful for being able to use WinZip in this process. I had tried this yesterday but I only had one OLD Flashdrive laying around that lacked the space for the download. So, when I picked up a couple of UHD Blu-rays today at Best Buy I also grabbed a few SanDisk Flashdrives.

In open disclosure, it took me awhile to figure some things out but once the unzipped file was downloaded to the Flashdrive the actual update on my display only took a few minutes. I do have some other things to attend to but once I finish them I will definitely be checking out the improvements. I still have some pretty bad scenes (with terrible "black crush") recorded to use as a measuring stick.

One more thing. I had asked everyone who had done the FW Update if you did a factory reset on your Technicolor Expert Picture Mode or did it automatically default to the original settings with the update. I'd love to hear from you on that.
When I updated to .05.20.00 I did do a factory reset also. So I needed to adjust all settings but I have played around with the set so much I have all my settings for all inputs stored in my memory bank. I use Technicolor on all inputs for SDR and HDR.

On the subject of picture modes I wonder if LG has reached out to Technicolor to have them implement a new “calibration” based on the changes in low end gamma? Meaning that maybe they reached out to them when .31 came out and needed to do so again for the latest firmware. Also they could be adjusting the ISF modes. Possible additional reason why things are taking so long.
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post #19294 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 08:04 PM
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Out of curiosity, why do some prefer Technicolor over ISF picture modes?
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post #19295 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
Out of curiosity, why do some prefer Technicolor over ISF picture modes?
Alternate white point is the main reason for me. Perceptually matched in Technicolor’s case to a Xenon projector. Other calibrators like D-Nice match to a different white point based on a different device which is probably a Pioneer 500m. This is all based on metameric failure in OLED’s. I find the image more accurate with the alternate white point provided by using Warm 1 which Technicolor used to differentiate from their white point setting from Warm 2. Warm 2 adheres to the common 6500 setting. While Warm 1 is in the 7000 range.
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post #19296 of 20424 Old 07-18-2019, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
Out of curiosity, why do some prefer Technicolor over ISF picture modes?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#1d5c4db75fbc
"In addition to adjusting the peak luminance, Technicolor has identified an alternative white point that accounts for the difference in colour perception affecting all wide color gamut displays, including, but not limited to, LG OLED.
Technicolor color scientists consider this white point is a close representation to D65 used for creating content, and is based on CIE 1931 2 degree target of 0.300, 0.327 rather than the traditionally used, but problematic 0.313, 0.329.
Previously, metameric correction data has only previously been offered for professional displays; LG OLED TVs are the first consumer product to offer a picture mode with metameric correction. LG is at the forefront of research into this area; for more details see our SID white paper on the topic here.
In order to implement these changes, only the default settings to the Technicolor Expert Mode have been changed in the 4.10.05 update. If you would like to revert to the previous firmware behavior, changing the OLED Light setting and White Point settings to the previous defaults of 80 and Warm 2 respectively will achieve this.”


Last time when calibrated with beta fw 05.10.00 I used D-Nice´s custom white point for 2018 LG OLED x=.3080 y=.3296

There is also thread for this : https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2879137-does-anyone-have-alternate-white-point-2016-lg-oleds-7.html#post57025836
So purpose is that you see by eyes same what your measuring instrument see.
This is what Technicolor / Warm1 try do.
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Last edited by Make73; 07-18-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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post #19297 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 12:05 AM
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So I called LG asking about the new FW and they said (as expected) that they know nothing about the new update. I asked him about the Korean FW and he said I can choose to download it via usb if I would like. I asked him if that would then void the warranty and he said if the tv is damaged then yes. So basically he said to download the fw knowing it may void the warranty if anything happens! Seriously?
Call in three times I bet you get three answers.......
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post #19298 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 12:59 AM
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The main reason why I choose Technicolor mode is because of the skin tones, much more natural under my point of view. This has created in me a conflict since it goes against everything I learned about calibration, the D 65 was for me objectively unquestionable. But I started reading about the Metameric bug, realizing that the oled tend to look too warm. Technicolor tends to be something green or cyan, but it goes much more unnoticed than the exaggeratedly red skin tones and dull, muddy whites of the D65. Also, the image resembles more my projector calibrated to D 65.
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post #19299 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
Out of curiosity, why do some prefer Technicolor over ISF picture modes?
Cinema, ISF/Pro* and Technicolor are all the same (clones) at core. These profiles produce the exact same result when all the options in all sub-menus are set to the match (however they don't start out like that, the defaults are a bit different), the same LUTs are in use.
The Technicolor preset used to apply a subjectively better (sharper looking: not over-sharpened but less blurred) upscaling from 1080p on the C7 (similar to the Game profile with Sharpness set to 0 in all modes) but I don't see that on the C8 anymore (I guess the ISF modes are now not as overly blurred as they used to be when upscaling is done by the TV --- too bad there is still no 2x2 nearest-neighbour mode, not even on the C9).
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post #19300 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#1d5c4db75fbc
"In addition to adjusting the peak luminance, Technicolor has identified an alternative white point that accounts for the difference in colour perception affecting all wide color gamut displays, including, but not limited to, LG OLED.
Technicolor color scientists consider this white point is a close representation to D65 used for creating content, and is based on CIE 1931 2 degree target of 0.300, 0.327 rather than the traditionally used, but problematic 0.313, 0.329.
Previously, metameric correction data has only previously been offered for professional displays; LG OLED TVs are the first consumer product to offer a picture mode with metameric correction. LG is at the forefront of research into this area; for more details see our SID white paper on the topic here.
In order to implement these changes, only the default settings to the Technicolor Expert Mode have been changed in the 4.10.05 update. If you would like to revert to the previous firmware behavior, changing the OLED Light setting and White Point settings to the previous defaults of 80 and Warm 2 respectively will achieve this.”


Last time when calibrated with beta fw 05.10.00 I used D-Nice´s custom white point for 2018 LG OLED x=.3080 y=.3296

There is also thread for this : https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2879137-does-anyone-have-alternate-white-point-2016-lg-oleds-7.html#post57025836
So purpose is that you see by eyes same what your measuring instrument see.
This is what Technicolor / Warm1 try do.
Thanks for the explaining that! I have a few additional questions for when I try it:
1) What settings did you change from the defaults?
2) Do the same settings apply for HDR?
Thanks!
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post #19301 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
Thanks for the explaining that! I have a few additional questions for when I try it:
1) What settings did you change from the defaults?
2) Do the same settings apply for HDR?
Thanks!
1) Just use Technicolor preset, it defaults with Warm 1 (there is difference by unit to unit but my´n was very accurate with factory defaults. Warm1 and Warm2 are equal by accuracy, only warm temp is different.)

2) I think so, I haven´t calibrate HDR but metamerism correction should be same with Technicolor HDR preset.

I have calibrated my TV´s since 2010, had few of them.
When bought this C8 OLED and calibrated it to D65 like always before I wondered why picture looked different. Then someone told about metamerism and you need to take it into account when calibrate OLEDs. Now it looks just fine.
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post #19302 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
Out of curiosity, why do some prefer Technicolor over ISF picture modes?
I chose it initially because of the Advanced White Balance settings so I could help reduce the black crush caused by the firmware I was given at the time of delivery. Now I'm so used to it that I watch all SDR material on that Mode. I watch HDR/Dolby Vision material on the Default Modes.

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post #19303 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 10:58 AM
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Couple of questions. I am considering getting my C8 Calibration after all.

A few things I am wondering.

1. Do they setup and optmize your blu-ray player too? I mean things like setting the output to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?

2. Do they need access to the back of the TV? I am guessing yes and I just want to be prepared for this because my TV is on a wall. I don't know how hard it will be to them to access a port or whatever.

3. My big question for those who have had your TV pro calibrated. What do you do after calibration when a new firmware comes out and messes stuff up? Do you just stop doing firmware updates to be on the safe side?


Thanks.
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post #19304 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 12:09 PM
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I’m just looking for some opinions/information on the brightness degradation with pixels over time. Is there an approximate amount of hours most notice this start to occur or that it definitely will? I’ve seen people saying they needed to tick up OLED setting a bit as they noticed it getting very slightly darker with time but am just wondering when that tends to occur. I know it’s subjective and in the eye of the viewer but just curious as to what the past and others have seen with their own. Also, on a separate note, is there any negative to switching aspect ratio from 16:9 to Original? As always, thanks so much to all of you for reading and/or responding!
No negative switching from 16:9 to original that I can think of. I use original.

As for lifespan, I can't vouch for the source, but http://hdtelevizija.com/en/2017/09/0...great-picture/ is an interesting review of an early LG OLED.
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post #19305 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganElisabeth View Post
I’️m just looking for some opinions/information on the brightness degradation with pixels over time. Is there an approximate amount of hours most notice this start to occur or that it definitely will? I’️ve seen people saying they needed to tick up OLED setting a bit as they noticed it getting very slightly darker with time but am just wondering when that tends to occur. I know it’️s subjective and in the eye of the viewer but just curious as to what the past and others have seen with their own. Also, on a separate note, is there any negative to switching aspect ratio from 16:9 to Original? As always, thanks so much to all of you for reading and/or responding!
No negative switching from 16:9 to original that I can think of. I use original.

As for lifespan, I can't vouch for the source, but http://hdtelevizija.com/en/2017/09/0...great-picture/ is an interesting review of an early LG OLED.
Thanks very much. 🙂 I had forgotten about this analysis!
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post #19306 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 05:15 PM
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It is a very fine and detailed analysis, but with HDR and how bright the pixels can get pushed these days, it’d be more interesting to see how that plays out over the long term, especially with static content being thrown into the mix on occasion (for gaming, as an example).
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post #19307 of 20424 Old 07-19-2019, 08:37 PM
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The credits are rolling on the movie Shazam! (UHD) and I concur wholeheartedly with my peers who said the PQ was stunning!

Here is a link to the review I just wrote for the Blu-ray PQ Discussion Thread in case anyone would care to see it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post58317312

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post #19308 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 01:28 AM
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Finally bit the bullet and decided to add a Panasonic Ub820 to my setup. My question is should I turn off dynamic tone mapping on the C8 when using the HDR optimizer function on the player, or do both work together in synergy?
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post #19309 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 02:12 AM
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Finally bit the bullet and decided to add a Panasonic Ub820 to my setup.
Great, I'm thinking of getting this player. How is it? How noisy is the fan? Can you set the front display to "time remaining with seconds" for a movie please (ie to see it counting backwards for a 90-minute movie from "01:30:00" to "00:00:00"? This is a key factor for me.

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My question is should I turn off dynamic tone mapping on the C8 when using the HDR optimizer function on the player, or do both work together in synergy?
Erm, that's a massive, complicated, question without a simple answer. It's a nuanced one which depends on many factors. Check out Vincent's review of the 9000 (which is identical in this regard) for his thoughts and his comparison with the Oppo:


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post #19310 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 03:01 AM
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I'll let you know later today, I ordered it online for Saturday delivery so it should be here around noonish
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post #19311 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by methos75 View Post
Finally bit the bullet and decided to add a Panasonic Ub820 to my setup. My question is should I turn off dynamic tone mapping on the C8 when using the HDR optimizer function on the player, or do both work together in synergy?
I have it off on the tv but on with the 820
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post #19312 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
1. Do they setup and optmize your blu-ray player too? I mean things like setting the output to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?
2. Do they need access to the back of the TV? I am guessing yes and I just want to be prepared for this because my TV is on a wall. I don't know how hard it will be to them to access a port or whatever.
3. My big question for those who have had your TV pro calibrated. What do you do after calibration when a new firmware comes out and messes stuff up? Do you just stop doing firmware updates to be on the safe side?
1: I usually do (but it's not mandatory, nor a priority from my perspective, so this might get skipped or forgotten about if we run out of time due to unexpected circumstances) but there is usually nothing to do (or I can explain it in general via email/phone later).
2: Sometimes it's very convenient (from the perspective of the process) or even necessary to access connectors on the back of the TV. I always opt to disturb the furniture rather than working around this but it's rarely a problem (especially for 2 [or more] people and I am rarely left alone, people mostly like to wath and talk anyways [or some might worry about kleptomaniacs, whatever]).
3: I recommend them not to update unless they feel like they have to (e.g.: there is a new or freshly fixed feature they really wish to utilize or a maddening bug is CONFIRMED to be fixed by that release, and then contact me or someone about possible picture changes).


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Originally Posted by methos75 View Post
Finally bit the bullet and decided to add a Panasonic Ub820 to my setup. My question is should I turn off dynamic tone mapping on the C8 when using the HDR optimizer function on the player, or do both work together in synergy?
I know nothing about the "optimizer" but keep in mind that LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping isn't exactly as it's advertised. Even though they separated it from Dynamic Contrast in the menu in 2018 it still messes around with more than just the peak white (measure) based roll-off. It clearly touches dark tones too. And I personally find that DV12 (inherently dynamic metadata) and HDR10 contents (same movie scene in different formats) look more alike with Dynamic Tone Mapping disabled.
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post #19313 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
1. Do they setup and optmize your blu-ray player too? I mean things like setting the output to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?
2. Do they need access to the back of the TV? I am guessing yes and I just want to be prepared for this because my TV is on a wall. I don't know how hard it will be to them to access a port or whatever.
3. My big question for those who have had your TV pro calibrated. What do you do after calibration when a new firmware comes out and messes stuff up? Do you just stop doing firmware updates to be on the safe side?
1: I usually do (but it's not mandatory, nor a priority from my perspective, so this might get skipped or forgotten about if we run out of time due to unexpected circumstances) but there is usually nothing to do (or I can explain it in general via email/phone later).
2: Sometimes it's very convenient (from the perspective of the process) or even necessary to access connectors on the back of the TV. I always opt to disturb the furniture rather than working around this but it's rarely a problem (especially for 2 [or more] people and I am rarely left alone, people mostly like to wath and talk anyways [or some might worry about kleptomaniacs, whatever]).
3: I recommend them not to update unless they feel like they have to (e.g.: there is a new or freshly fixed feature they really wish to utilize or a maddening bug is CONFIRMED to be fixed by that release, and then contact me or someone about possible picture changes).
Thank you for the info it was very helpful. In talking to my wife last night trying to sell her on the expensive of calibration she had a few questions:

1. Do calibrators do anything to the other devices in my system, such as my AVR or 4K player?
2. Most importantly to her since this little hobby of mine is so expensive, After they calibrate the tv, if I later replace my Blu-Ray player or AVR, do I need another calibration?
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post #19314 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Thank you for the info it was very helpful. In talking to my wife last night trying to sell her on the expensive of calibration she had a few questions:

1. Do calibrators do anything to the other devices in my system, such as my AVR or 4K player?
2. Most importantly to her since this little hobby of mine is so expensive, After they calibrate the tv, if I later replace my Blu-Ray player or AVR, do I need another calibration?
I won't comment on the two questions above, but one thing to consider is that once a professional calibration is done you will need to have your calibrator return every couple of years or so to tweak his calibrations. Why? Because the settings "shift" in time due to various factors. The re-calibration won't be as expensive as the initial calibration, but it is an expense you will want to factor into your decision. This will be a real test for the WAF!
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post #19315 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 09:38 AM
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^^^^^^^

I should have added that I came close to having a professional calibration done by David Abrams (for my Pioneer KURO Elite plasma) but due to his added expenses (more mileage and an overnight stay in the city where I live) he was going to have to charge me $600-700 (and this was back in 2010). This was not an expense I will willing to pay, especially knowing he would have to return periodically to re-calibrate it.

Back then (10 years ago) calibrations were much more necessary than today. I am very impressed with "most" high end displays today, for their "out of the box" settings (on ISF Modes and some others) are normally very close to standard perimeters. For example, using the ISF or Technicolor Expert Modes on our LG OLED 8 Series is almost perfect when it comes to the Gray-scale Standard.

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post #19316 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 10:16 AM
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Welp guess no Oled and Ub820 goodness today. Got it in and excitedly hooked it up and bam! Nothing, the Ub820 was DOA.
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post #19317 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I won't comment on the two questions above, but one thing to consider is that once a professional calibration is done you will need to have your calibrator return every couple of years or so to tweak his calibrations. Why? Because the settings "shift" in time due to various factors. The re-calibration won't be as expensive as the initial calibration, but it is an expense you will want to factor into your decision. This will be a real test for the WAF!
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^^^^^^^

I should have added that I came close to having a professional calibration done by David Abrams (for my Pioneer KURO Elite plasma) but due to his added expenses (more mileage and an overnight stay in the city where I live) he was going to have to charge me $600-700 (and this was back in 2010). This was not an expense I will willing to pay, especially knowing he would have to return periodically to re-calibrate it.

Back then (10 years ago) calibrations were much more necessary than today. I am very impressed with "most" high end displays today, for their "out of the box" settings (on ISF Modes and some others) are normally very close to standard perimeters. For example, using the ISF or Technicolor Expert Modes on our LG OLED 8 Series is almost perfect when it comes to the Gray-scale Standard.
I appreciate your thoughts. I didn’t know about recalibration so that is definitely something to consider. I guess it’s debatable if we even need Calibration these days. I do have a C8’s as well of course.

I’d like to ask anyone else who has a C8 and had it calibrated. Do you feel if was worth it?
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post #19318 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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^^^^^

If I lived where a professional calibrator like D-Nice, Chad B or Jeff Meyer (Sp. ?) toured, I would probably still have the calibration done. Again, I didn't have it done 10 years ago because it would have been nearly $700. I believe it's more like $400 if you live in an area where the calibrators tour. Even though the "out of the box" settings are pretty good in today's displays, I'm one who would love ALL SETTINGS dialed in to as near to perfection as possible.

I would also have my 9.2 channel sound system calibrated too if I could, but there are only a few calibrators who do both.

LG OLED 77C8...Denon X4300H 9.2 AVR...LG UHD UBK90 (Dolby Vision BDP)...Philips UHD BDP-7501...Toshiba HD-A30...Dish Hopper 3...Roku Premiere Plus...Harmony One

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post #19319 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by methos75 View Post
Welp guess no Oled and Ub820 goodness today. Got it in and excitedly hooked it up and bam! Nothing, the Ub820 was DOA.
Oh no! Sorry to hear that. Very unusual.

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post #19320 of 20424 Old 07-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^

If I lived where a professional calibrator like D-Nice, Chad B or Jeff Meyer (Sp. ?) toured, I would probably still have the calibration done. Again, I didn't have it done 10 years ago because it would have been nearly $700. I believe it's more like $400 if you live in an area where the calibrators tour. Even though the "out of the box" settings are pretty good in today's displays, I'm one who would love ALL SETTINGS dialed in to as near to perfection as possible.

I would also have my 9.2 channel sound system calibrated too if I could, but there are only a few calibrators who do both.
Lol I live pretty much out of D-Nice tour area, but last year he made an exception that I did not take advantage of...because Vegas...I would email him...you never know!

Last edited by Cam1977; 07-20-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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