2018 LG C8-E8 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 679 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20341 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CadeFoster View Post
Thanks for the info. I just have a couple more questions regarding hdr. I use Cinema home for DV and noticed that the colour gamut is locked into "wide". I thought the correct setting was auto as extended or wide just oversaturates the image? Also, for hdr10 I use technicolor expert and see that the default colour temp is warm 1. I know warm 2 is usually thought of to be the way to go so should that be changed for the technicolor expert preset, or left at warm 1? I'm on the new 5.10.03 firmware if that makes a difference. Thanks again.
According to most calibrator videos, hdr & dv don't need to be adjusted unless getting professional calibration.

For basic adjustments out of the box hdr, dv can be left alone


These are the videos I base my stuff off of until I get my sets calibrated





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post #20342 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CadeFoster View Post
Thanks for the info. I just have a couple more questions regarding hdr. I use Cinema home for DV and noticed that the colour gamut is locked into "wide". I thought the correct setting was auto as extended or wide just oversaturates the image?
For SDR content, yes "auto" is correct.

For all HDR content, whether it's HDR10, HLG, or Dolby Vision - the spec says rec.2020 which is a much wider gamut than is possible with this panel. "Auto" will still switch correctly from rec.709 to rec.2020 and back. You should basically always leave it on Auto if you have any choice in the matter.

In some Picture modes, like Game mode, it's fixed to Native (wide) gamut and only a calibration can fix this for both SDR and HDR.

You say that you see the colour gamut locked into "wide" in the "Cinema Home" Dolby Vision Picture mode. But if that menu display entry is locked out, there is nothing you can do about it. It may just say that, but actually be set to "Auto". Measurements with a meter would reveal the answer. Either way, if you are using "Cinema Home", that's the least of your problems. "Cinema Home" is very inaccurate across the whole EOTF and will not accurately display the content as intended.

The "Cinema" Dolby Vision Picture mode, the most accurate one out of the box, also reports a greyed out "Wide" colour gamut entry.

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Also, for hdr10 I use technicolor expert and see that the default colour temp is warm 1. I know warm 2 is usually thought of to be the way to go so should that be changed for the technicolor expert preset, or left at warm 1? I'm on the new 5.10.03 firmware if that makes a difference. Thanks again.
Technicolour Expert Warm1 uses a special custom whitepoint: x=0.3000 y=0.3270 which is different from the normal D65 whitepoint used for all other colour temps in all modes. If you, @CadeFoster , are a professional Hollywood colourist and you want a whitepoint which is a perceptual match with the Xenon DCI Cinema Projector - ie you are mastering content designed to be projected on that system, and not for the home - then you can use Warm1! It has no practical use for the home, other than fun! It's interesting in the sense that it's the first time a consumer TV has had a custom whitepoint, and there was some publicity about it at the time. LG likes the "kudos" it gets from Hollywood using their TVs for colourist work.
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post #20343 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Best thing to do is put everything back to default. Use ISF Dark or Bright for SDR, Cinema for HDR and Cinema for DV. Those Rtings settings are old and probably not valid anymore since there have been many firmware updates since the set was initially reviewed.
I agree, and emphasis added

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post #20344 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadeFoster View Post
Thanks for the info. I just have a couple more questions regarding hdr. I use Cinema home for DV and noticed that the colour gamut is locked into "wide". I thought the correct setting was auto as extended or wide just oversaturates the image?
For SDR content, yes "auto" is correct.

For all HDR content, whether it's HDR10, HLG, or Dolby Vision - the spec says rec.2020 which is a much wider gamut than is possible with this panel. Therefore, the Native (wide) gamut is the biggest it can manage, and is correct.

Quote:
Also, for hdr10 I use technicolor expert and see that the default colour temp is warm 1. I know warm 2 is usually thought of to be the way to go so should that be changed for the technicolor expert preset, or left at warm 1? I'm on the new 5.10.03 firmware if that makes a difference. Thanks again.
Technicolour Expert Warm1 uses a special custom whitepoint: x=0.3000 y=0.3270 which is different from the normal D65 whitepoint used for all other colour temps in all modes. If you, @CadeFoster , are a professional Hollywood colourist and you want a whitepoint which is a perceptual match with the Xenon DCI Cinema Projector - ie you are mastering content designed to be projected on that system, and not for the home - then you can use Warm1! It has no practical use for the home, other than fun! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] It's interesting in the sense that it's the first time a consumer TV has had a custom whitepoint, and there was some publicity about it at the time. LG likes the "kudos" it gets from Hollywood using their TVs for colourist work.
When calibrating HDR you most definitely do not turn the color to wide. You use normal, as the tv knows what color space you're using. With movies it's usual dci-p3 in a rec2020 container.

Technicolor 1 is so far off those coordinates it's not even funny. Like any other mode it has to be calibrated to .300, .327 and it looks ok. Warm 2 is closest in that preset to those coordinates. Crazy, I know.... I found the Dolby and LG recommended .308,.313 to be the best, and that's what I calibrated to on my settings I shared a few days ago. It fixes the metameric failure of the TV.
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post #20345 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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On my Technicolor TV it comes by default very close to 300 coordinates. 327 and it looks good, white in warm 2 is muddy and faces look red
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post #20346 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
On my Technicolor TV it comes by default very close to 300 coordinates. 327 and it looks good, white in warm 2 is muddy and faces look red
Are you using a spectro? It's clearly way too blue and green at warm 1. To meet those coordinates on warm 1, my TV 2 point high is set at red+9, green-6, blue -10. The red faces will always be there unless you calibrate to .308, .313
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post #20347 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:54 AM
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Yes, I use a calibration probe and I have used all the alternative calibration points, 300 327 has more green and blue than red but I think it is a good compromise to reduce the metameric
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post #20348 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
Yes, I use a calibration probe and I have used all the alternative calibration points, 300 327 has more green and blue than red but I think it is a good compromise to reduce the metameric
Right, but my point is that it's not accurate or anywhere near .300,.327. I had to adjust it quite a bit. It definitely looks better than d65
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post #20349 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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mine has come with 299 326 very close, maybe I would have to perfect it a bit but I think it is very close
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post #20350 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
mine has come with 299 326 very close, maybe I would have to perfect it a bit but I think it is very close
I just had my spectro recertified. It's as good as it gets. I'm not saying you're wrong, just surprised. Are you using a colorimeter?
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post #20351 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 12:22 PM
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So just so I understand...you turned that HDR mode back off?
Correct. It's like it's maxing out the OLED light 24\7!
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post #20352 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 12:57 PM
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use a 1 pro display with chromapure, the default TV has errors below 2 in isf D65. and Technicolor very close to 300. 327.
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post #20353 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 01:09 PM
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When calibrating HDR you most definitely do not turn the color to wide. You use normal, as the tv knows what color space you're using. With movies it's usual dci-p3 in a rec2020 container.
Yes. I wouldn't set it to wide nor did I suggest that he did willingly (he wasn't asking about calibration). I was reassuring him that if when viewing content, he looks at the menu and it is locked out but reads "wide", he should not worry, because it's whatever Dolby set. But re-reading it I can see my post was ambiguous; so I will edit it.

[Edit: done!]

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post #20354 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 03:36 PM
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I found the Dolby and LG recommended .308,.313 to be the best..
Interesting. Where did you get that information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
mine has come with 299 326 very close, maybe I would have to perfect it a bit but I think it is very close
My Technicolor warm1 is also close - about .300/.328 but varies a bit more below 25% stimulus. That being said, I don't use it, it seems off to me, but to each his own.

EDIT: I found that .308/.313 article referenced on another site. I might try it and see what it looks like, but only 13 "reliable" observers were used to compare OLED to a Grade-1 CRT? It is also quite different than what some of the top calibrators here on AVS came up in another thread.

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post #20355 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 04:13 PM
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hey, just got the 5.10.03 update for my tv, but since i cant find the Lg c8 usa firmware page anymore, im a bit skeptical about applying this -- id like to also know what the changes were

thanks guys

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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Of course. This is a FAQ. Repost: for people who keep referring to "the Korean firmware", "the Canadian firmware", "the American firmware" - there is no such thing. Also taking firmware from a country of choice - won't work, unless you pick one of the correct countries.

It is "the firmware for Korean and Canadian and American models". It's the exact same file that is flashed to ALL of them, very easily proven with hash checks and comparing them. There's only really 2 or 3 different chassis in the whole world.

The only thing that is different between the 3 web-pages is that that file has been linked from some of them and not others of them.
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post #20356 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 04:32 PM
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Can we say 05.10.03 is likely the last firmware for the C8.

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post #20357 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 04:37 PM
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Got auto update to 05.10.03.
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post #20358 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 05:16 PM
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Can we say 05.10.03 is likely the last firmware for the C8.
I'd be astonished if it was, and there's no hint that it is.
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post #20359 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 05:50 PM
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^^
True, and there are always security updates when someone finds a vulnerability. I just got one last month for my LG 55EG9100!
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post #20360 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
I found the Dolby and LG recommended .308,.313 to be the best..
Interesting. Where did you get that information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Ferreres Gordillo View Post
mine has come with 299 326 very close, maybe I would have to perfect it a bit but I think it is very close
My Technicolor warm1 is also close - about .300/.328 but varies a bit more below 25% stimulus. That being said, I don't use it, it seems off to me, but to each his own.

EDIT: I found that .308/.313 article referenced on another site. I might try it and see what it looks like, but only 13 "reliable" observers were used to compare OLED to a Grade-1 CRT? It is also quite different than what some of the top calibrators here on AVS came up in another thread.
Were you able read the whole thing? I doubt LG and Dolby would publish something if they weren't confident in the results. I guess it's a try it for yourself and see kinda thing. As far as the Technicolor white point, are you using a spectro for your measurements, or are you using a colorimeter, like Pedro?

Edit: I noticed that you have access to a Jeti. My meter is not that good, but it was just recalibrated by x-rite. Not sure what's going on except maybe panel variance. 🤷
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post #20361 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 07:35 PM
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Can we say 05.10.03 is likely the last firmware for the C8.
One thing is for sure though...the next firmware will be under intense scrutiny here!
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post #20362 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
When calibrating HDR you most definitely do not turn the color to wide. You use normal, as the tv knows what color space you're using. With movies it's usual dci-p3 in a rec2020 container.

Technicolor 1 is so far off those coordinates it's not even funny. Like any other mode it has to be calibrated to .300, .327 and it looks ok. Warm 2 is closest in that preset to those coordinates. Crazy, I know.... I found the Dolby and LG recommended .308,.313 to be the best, and that's what I calibrated to on my settings I shared a few days ago. It fixes the metameric failure of the TV.
I applied your settings and they looked good. I have been using the Technicolor default but at 40 OLED light. Going back and forth between the two there are obvious differences. I had a few questions and observations though:
- I noticed you adjusted High green -15 but a lot of calibrators keep green at zero and adjust red and blue. Was this due to the Dolby custom SDR white point?
- I also noticed CMS adjustments in the 10 plus range. Is this also due to the Dolby custom white point?
- You raised the luminance on the low ire’s. This is a drastic change from the previous firmwares. LG must have really corrected the “black crush” on your set.
- Can’t argue with the graph results for your set. Thanks for the hard work and sharing your settings!
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post #20363 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
When calibrating HDR you most definitely do not turn the color to wide. You use normal, as the tv knows what color space you're using. With movies it's usual dci-p3 in a rec2020 container.

Technicolor 1 is so far off those coordinates it's not even funny. Like any other mode it has to be calibrated to .300, .327 and it looks ok. Warm 2 is closest in that preset to those coordinates. Crazy, I know.... I found the Dolby and LG recommended .308,.313 to be the best, and that's what I calibrated to on my settings I shared a few days ago. It fixes the metameric failure of the TV.
I applied your settings and they looked good. I have been using the Technicolor default but at 40 OLED light. Going back and forth between the two there are obvious differences. I had a few questions and and observations though:
- I noticed you adjusted High green -15 but a lot of calibrators keep green at zero and adjust red and blue. Was this due to the Dolby custom SDR white point?
- I also noticed CMS adjustments in the 10 plus range. Is this also due to the Dolby custom white point?
- You raised the luminance on the low ire’️s. This is a drastic change from the previous firmwares. LG must have really corrected the “black crushâ€Â on your set.
- Can’️t argue with the graph results for your set. Thanks for the hard work and sharing your settings!
Everything that's changed is due to the alternative whitepoint. Color coordinates change accordingly, requiringing different CMS settings to hit rec. 709/dci-p3. I chose to lower green instead of raising red and blue because it was a straight shot. Could've done it either way. LG has definitely fixed the black crush and gamma in SDR. In HDR the eotf is too dark when it was too bright. I presume that's because they expect most people to use dynamic tone mapping. I'm glad you're enjoying the settings 😊
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post #20364 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 09:17 PM
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Are you using a spectro? It's clearly way too blue and green at warm 1. To meet those coordinates on warm 1, my TV 2 point high is set at red+9, green-6, blue -10. The red faces will always be there unless you calibrate to .308, .313
You don't even need any gear to see the teal push on Technicolor Warm 1, warm 2 does have a slight orange/sepia push, so it's a pick your preference thing really.

By the way, I'm not one to try other's settings much, and caveat here that every panel is different which is why there is an element of luck involved with that, but our panels must be not far off from each other. Switching between your settings and the default ISF one was a revelation, seeing the green tint gradually fade away over 10-15 seconds when switching back and forth, didn't even notice that greenish hue until that (do wish LG would revert back to settings switching immediately between modes and color temperatures, instead of this gradual change they implemented later on, I like seeing the difference clearly and quickly). Also hope you have a quick return to good health.
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post #20365 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 09:27 PM
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I'd be astonished if it was, and there's no hint that it is.
I'm all for more improvements if necessary.

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One thing is for sure though...the next firmware will be under intense scrutiny here!
Ever since I updated using Canada’s website that same evening LG decided to release USA firmware version via TV. Talk about bad luck even if it’s the supposed to be the same, I’ve just been unhappy lol.
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post #20366 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 09:54 PM
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^dont feel too bad, I updated from the "korean" site with no issues...everything is fine.
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post #20367 of 21619 Old 08-16-2019, 11:01 PM
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One thing is for sure though...the next firmware will be under intense scrutiny here!
lol, it always is from what I see
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post #20368 of 21619 Old 08-17-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
Were you able read the whole thing? I doubt LG and Dolby would publish something if they weren't confident in the results. I guess it's a try it for yourself and see kinda thing. As far as the Technicolor white point, are you using a spectro for your measurements, or are you using a colorimeter, like Pedro?
Thankyou, @chonitis;! You have inspired me to try that white point the next time I calibrate The new Calman 2019 beta was out yesterday so I have a reason to try a few things.

I have a cribsheet of notes, and here are the white points that I have noted so far:
Code:
Technicolour "Warm1" whitepoint: x=0.3000     y=0.3270	[match with Xenon DCI Cinema Projector, so *no use for the home*]
D-Nice's old         whitepoint: x=0.3045     y=0.3292
D-Nice's new         whitepoint: x=0.3080     y=0.3296
RGB OLED             whitepoint: x=0.3067     y=0.318
Wifi-spy's           whitepoint: x=0.3073     y=0.3214	[perceptual match with a CRT]
LG and Dolby         whitepoint: x=0.308      y=0.313	[perceptual match with a CRT] **RECOMMENDED**
D65                  whitepoint: x=0.3127(1)  y=0.329(02)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/3001138-sony-master-series-a9f-calibration-settings-10.html#post58376682
As a bit of fun I've plotted these on a graph. That was easy. Deciding to overlay it onto the background image of that zoomed-in part of the CIE graph, was something I wish I hadn't started! Took ages, and quite hard to see where it all is and which point is bluer than others, since it's zoomed in so much. Oh well! Full size one added for reference.




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_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

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post #20369 of 21619 Old 08-17-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by b_rad4 View Post
What size screws did you guys use to mount the TV? I did a google search and I see suggestions of 12mm all the way up to 24mm.

The manual is no help, all it says is M6 screws

So what length screws did you use and how many washers?
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post #20370 of 21619 Old 08-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
You don't even need any gear to see the teal push on Technicolor Warm 1, warm 2 does have a slight orange/sepia push, so it's a pick your preference thing really.

By the way, I'm not one to try other's settings much, and caveat here that every panel is different which is why there is an element of luck involved with that, but our panels must be not far off from each other. Switching between your settings and the default ISF one was a revelation, seeing the green tint gradually fade away over 10-15 seconds when switching back and forth, didn't even notice that greenish hue until that (do wish LG would revert back to settings switching immediately between modes and color temperatures, instead of this gradual change they implemented later on, I like seeing the difference clearly and quickly). Also hope you have a quick return to good health.

That is still a bug and not a feature. If you factory reset the TV, color temperature change will be instant. That is until you do whatever triggers this bug again..



Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post





I also have a collection of white points and tried various ones.


It's baffling how much difference there is and that there is no clear consensus about this.

If I adjusted the WP by eye it would probably be somehwere in between on that graph and with the panel tinting problems I'm sure somewhere on my TV there is a spot which has the absolute correct WP.
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