Originally Posted by toddRiffic
If I'm understanding his analogy from about 14:30 to 16:00 or so. He's saying let the panny tone map down to 1000 nits for the OLED and then let the OLED do the tone mapping from a 1000 nits and below. It's not super clear, but that's what I took from it.
Ah, in that case you have misunderstood. I'll go into some detail if you don't mind because it's a very easy trap that you fell into.
That's the TV's normal
tone-mapping he's talking about, which you can't control and it always has to do, because it's not a 10,000 nit panel with a full rec.2020 gamut. Every HDR TV on the planet does tone-mapping, and always will (at least for the next 10-20 years).
Vincent is not
talking about DYNAMIC tone-mapping, which is the one that has the user menu option to turn it on or off.
"Let the TV do the rest of the tone-mapping", with the player having done the "heavy lifting". Yes. This is good! Allow the TV to do what it would have done anyway. In this context, normally the TV would have done its normal tone-mapping within, say, a 4,000 nit container. The HDR10 Optimiser in the player does a nicer job of tone-mapping, preserving colour saturation etc, than TV's chipset (which is why we like this player), and presents the TV with a resulting image in a 1,000 nit container - which is then easier for the TV to do a nice job with and present the final image. Again, the TV is doing the normal, standard, tone-mapping based on the static HDR10 metadata, but the player has switched the values and tells the TV that it's a 1,000 nit container (because it is at that point!). This tone-mapping is undefeatable and has no user control.
But! DYNAMIC tone-mapping is something completely and totally different, which he never mentioned. That's LG's "look at the signal, and guess what the frame-by-frame metadata might have been, if it were there". That's a radical and wacky processing option which can (and does) lift the brightness of darker scenes too much. You can be sure that if Vincent had meant for people to turn on DYNAMIC tone-mapping he would have been crystal clear. Also, some TVs might not even have such an option. You could be using the player with any TV. LG's DYNAMIC tone mapping, is nothing at all to do with normal tone-mapping.
This confusion unfortunately happens a lot because of LG's name of that option, combined with the term "dynamic metadata
" being part of Dolby Vision and HDR10+, and widely seen as a "good thing". It's correct, "dynamic metadata
" is a good thing because it describes the video data much better, and gives the TV a much better chance to try to tone-map it well. Dynamic metadata changes constantly, but is still fed into the TV's normal, standard, tone-mapping engine to produce the exact tone-mapping which was intended (if Dolby Vision) / whatever the manufacturer thinks is good (if HDR10+). So on our C8s it is one reason that the "dynamic tonemapping" menu is greyed for Dolby Vision. There's no need for the TV to "guess what the frame-by-frame metadata might have been, if it were there", because it's actually been supplied and is correct!
Most of the time, the word "dynamic" in a menu option means something nasty which the manufacturer has invented, which will be artificial processing, which like Vivid mode, you should turn off - like "Dynamic Contrast" for example. But in the term "dynamic metadata
", that's the only time it's a good thing that we want (but there's no menu option for Dolby Vision Dynamic metadata).
If LG had called their option "Tone Mapper Pro" or something more radical, instead of "Dynamic Tonemapping", then I don't think this confusion would happen as often. I completely blame the word "Dynamic".
Originally Posted by toddRiffic
I believe he's saying let it do most of the work and then left the TV's tone mapping finish it off if I understand correctly.
You were correct at the start, but then unfortunately leapt from the correct "let the TV's tone mapping finish it off"...
...to the incorrect "I must now turn on that DYNAMIC tone mapping menu item I saw, otherwise the TV won't do any tone mapping!"