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-   -   LG 2018 TV Reviewers Workshop (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2964280-lg-2018-tv-reviewers-workshop.html)

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 02:54 PM

LG 2018 TV Reviewers Workshop
 
Part 1: LG invited a select group of TV reviewers to Hollywood, CA, for a day of informative presentations about the 2018 OLED and Super UHD LCD TVs.

https://www.avsforum.com/lg-2018-tv-reviewers-workshop/

Part 2: After learning about LG's 2018 lineup of OLED and Super UHD LCD TVs, we poked around the Mack Sennett Studios basement before heading over to Netflix.

https://www.avsforum.com/lg-2018-tv-r...udios-netflix/

Part 3: The final stop of the LG 2018 TV Reviewers Workshop was a visit to Technicolor, where we learned about color grading and Advanced HDR by Technicolor.

https://www.avsforum.com/lg-2018-tv-r...3-technicolor/

fafrd 03-16-2018 03:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson (Post 55867584)
LG invited a select group of TV reviewers to Hollywood, CA, for a day of informative presentations about the 2018 OLED and Super UHD LCD TVs.

https://www.avsforum.com/lg-2018-tv-reviewers-workshop/

No mention of the new subpixel design for 2018, huh?

lacombo 03-16-2018 03:50 PM

why no 60"? that's the perfect size for the room i do most viewing.

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fafrd (Post 55867724)
No mention of the new subpixel design for 2018, huh?

Nope, no such mention. Is that for the OLED or LCD TVs?

deadacclaim 03-16-2018 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacombo (Post 55867888)
why no 60"? that's the perfect size for the room i do most viewing.

Economics. Lg is the only company that makes OLED screens, and none of their factories are equipped to make 60" screens.

dubusduck 03-16-2018 04:16 PM

Im interested in the 9500 Super UHD to see if LG is able to mitigate the higher black levels in their IPS panel. Scott what did you think of the 9500? Does it come wit Technicolor as well or is that just on the OLED models?

ConnecTEDDD 03-16-2018 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacombo (Post 55867888)
why no 60"? that's the perfect size for the room i do most viewing.

See there why: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post50622289

3Dhereicome 03-16-2018 05:06 PM

Jokers face in Batman begins?? Sacrilege!!! It’s only the greatest movie ever made, come on now! The dark knight! :)

oldsteve 03-16-2018 05:15 PM

Any model LG OLED to be available?
 
LG said the B series OLED will no longer be available at Costco, Sam's, etc. Did they say if any OLED would be? Since Costco offers an extra 12 months warranty on their TV's I wonder if LG ran into a problem with getting too many defective sets returned to them during the second year of warranty. Every trip to the Costco TV section had many people checking out the B-7 while I was there. I know they sold a ton of them.

:)

Palewing 03-16-2018 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD (Post 55868176)

Thanks. I really wish for 38"-42" OLED panels to happen at some point, as that is all I have room for without ruining my speaker placements completely, which would not be worth it. Guess I'll be stuck with my 30" monitor a bit longer.

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubusduck (Post 55868004)
Im interested in the 9500 Super UHD to see if LG is able to mitigate the higher black levels in their IPS panel. Scott what did you think of the 9500? Does it come wit Technicolor as well or is that just on the OLED models?

From what little I saw, it looked quite good...a lot better than last year's SJ9500. It does include Technicolor HDR and Technicolor Expert mode.

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Dhereicome (Post 55868294)
Jokers face in Batman begins?? Sacrilege!!! It’s only the greatest movie ever made, come on now! The dark knight! :)

My mistake; I wrote this really fast! It's corrected...thanks!

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsteve (Post 55868360)
LG said the B series OLED will no longer be available at Costco, Sam's, etc. Did they say if any OLED would be? Since Costco offers an extra 12 months warranty on their TV's I wonder if LG ran into a problem with getting too many defective sets returned to them during the second year of warranty. Every trip to the Costco TV section had many people checking out the B-7 while I was there. I know they sold a ton of them.

:)

Actually, they didn't say it would not be available at big-box stores, only that it would not be exclusive to any particular big-box stores. I assume LG will sell some OLEDs at Costco, Sam's Club, etc. Why wouldn't they if sales are good there?

3Dhereicome 03-16-2018 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson (Post 55868534)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Dhereicome (Post 55868294)
Jokers face in Batman begins?? Sacrilege!!! It’s only the greatest movie ever made, come on now! The dark knight! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

My mistake; I wrote this really fast! It's corrected...thanks!

Haha you’re welcome! Thanks for the article!

fafrd 03-16-2018 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson (Post 55867964)
Nope, no such mention. Is that for the OLED or LCD TVs?

That picture was supposedly taken from a 2018 WOLED panel. I'll be interested to see if the modified subpixel pattern design is confirmed in the wild. If so, it's interesting that LG is staying mum on the subject (possibly because the change is primarily to address concers with differential-aging-induced burn-in of red).

Scott Wilkinson 03-16-2018 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fafrd (Post 55869512)
That picture was supposedly taken from a 2018 WOLED panel. I'll be interested to see if the modified subpixel pattern design is confirmed in the wild. If so, it's interesting that LG is staying mum on the subject (possibly because the change is primarily to address concers with differential-aging-induced burn-in of red).

I don't quite understand what that photo is showing. I see green and red subpixels, but the "blue" ones look gray, and I see no white subpixel. Exactly what is it supposed to be showing?

ultraflexed 03-17-2018 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson (Post 55867584)
LG invited a select group of TV reviewers to Hollywood, CA, for a day of informative presentations about the 2018 OLED and Super UHD LCD TVs.

https://www.avsforum.com/lg-2018-tv-reviewers-workshop/

did you happen to find out what the peak brightness nits are for the top of the line super uhd's

harlekin 03-17-2018 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraflexed (Post 55869988)
did you happen to find out what the peak brightness nits are for the top of the line super uhd's

You mean the value they boost every year by adding more "diffuse white" from the white subpixel to every color? Do you buy TVs because of that?

video_analysis 03-17-2018 03:56 AM

^Do the super UHD LCDs (not WOLEDs) even utilize white subpixels? I don't believe they do...

harlekin 03-17-2018 04:02 AM

I assumed we were talking about OLEDs. But yes, LG also uses white subpixels to fake capabilities on their LCD products as well.. ;)

Give me a moment: https://www.techhive.com/article/310...tvs-as-4k.html

This is why you not just go by the peak brightness number people like Scott Wilkinson like to relay from PR sources. Also measured - on what widowsize? ;)

gorman42 03-17-2018 04:09 AM

No words on black frame insertion mode? No mention of possible eARC, VRR or QMS future firmware implementation that's been declared as possible even for 18Gbps HDMI connections?

schizm83 03-17-2018 04:23 AM

Can you secretly sneak to the OLEDs, play that 5% gray test and report back here? :D

video_analysis 03-17-2018 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlekin (Post 55870060)
I assumed we were talking about OLEDs. But yes, LG also uses white subpixels to fake capabilities on their LCD products as well.. ;)

Give me a moment: https://www.techhive.com/article/310...tvs-as-4k.html

Good information. I'm unfamiliar with what's happening in their LCD division since I have little interest and it plays second fiddle to WOLED nowadays. Also, ultraflexed specifically mentioned "super" UHDs (which, as a marketing effort to make 20-year-old transmissive tech look relevant, is consistent with the nomenclature LG uses to describe its LCD TVs: https://www.avsforum.com/lg-launches-...-with-ai-thinq).:o

ultraflexed 03-17-2018 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlekin (Post 55870012)
You mean the value they boost every year by adding more "diffuse white" from the white subpixel to every color? Do you buy TVs because of that?

if hdr an dolby vision claims to be the brightest bright and the darkest darks, and mastering up to 4,000 nits.
wouldn't be fair to measure how close we are to the standards of Dolby vision or how bright our sets can get..

no different then the NFL combine where they test everyone's speed and strength before drafting them

harlekin 03-17-2018 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraflexed (Post 55870278)
if hdr an dolby vision claims to be the brightest bright and the darkest darks, and mastering up to 4,000 nits.
wouldn't be fair to measure how close we are to the standards of Dolby vision or how bright our sets can get..

no different then the NFL combine where they test everyone's speed and strength before drafting them

And what if that person has a bad day?

Also - there is no standard.

Mastering studios just shed the principle to master to DCI-P3 primaries (also not a standard) in favor of "going with whatever their monitors can do at the time".) We see the first HDR releases that claim to have been mastered with 10.000 nits primaries. Others have been mastered to 2.000 nits, or 4.000 nits - but of course their metadata is often wrong, or will be ignored. The primary selling point for LG flagship devices is a mode that dynamically analyses a HDR picture and remaps its gamma/eotf based on scene and image content - because otherwise current HDR releases have become unusable.

Questions?

There is no standard. I'm sure Scott Wilkinson will tell you this any minute now.. ;)

Ah - before I forget "closer to the desired color brightness - but still off" is just "still off", not "better". Also - how perceivable it is, will depend on the color.

I like the game you all want to play ("buy brighter TV every year - because they might come closer whatever the movie was mastered on (not following a defined standard) - but never reaching it by design") very much, but can we play something else some day...? It's gotten boring.. ;)

D-Nice 03-17-2018 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraflexed (Post 55870278)
if hdr an dolby vision claims to be the brightest bright and the darkest darks, and mastering up to 4,000 nits.
wouldn't be fair to measure how close we are to the standards of Dolby vision or how bright our sets can get..

no different then the NFL combine where they test everyone's speed and strength before drafting them

Just because the mastering display is capable of 4000 nits for specular highlights does not mean the colorists use the max capabilities. The vast majority of HDR/DV max out below 1,000 nits for specular highlights regardless of the capabilities of the mastering display. If I recall correctly Ted has a chart floating around that shows peak light in HDR/DV movies.

harlekin 03-17-2018 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Nice (Post 55870426)
Just because the mastering display is capable of 4000 nits for specular highlights does not mean the colorists use the max capabilities. The vast majority of HDR/DV max out below 1,000 nits for specular highlights regardless of the capabilities of the mastering display. If I recall correctly Ted has a chart floating around that shows peak light in HDR/DV movies.

Thats intersting, because I can link you a colorists panel - right now - where the speakers offer up the strong opinion, that anything below 2000nits to them isn't considered real HDR.


Also - up until very recently they all mastered with DCi-P3 primaries even for the consumer space - apparently this got dropped a few months ago. Which means, that right now - its the wild west.

If you want to get this concept explained to you by the creator of Lightspace:

h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAP-BYI1mw
h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWs75BLCAA
h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsgOwi3pRMg

You know what? Maybe avsforum could write an article about that! Ah - dont bother... Just tell people increasing nits values every year - and most of them are happy...

Why see the need to make this a discussion about journalisitc standards in the business.

edit: Mistakingly only posted the panel introduction. I replaced the link with the full panel now.

D-Nice 03-17-2018 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlekin (Post 55870492)
Thats intersting, because I can link you a colorists panel - right now - where the speakers offer up the strong opinion, that anything below 2000nits to them isn't considered real HDR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cwVLHEffoI

Also - up until very recently they all mastered with DCi-P3 primaries even for the consumer space - apparently this got dropped a few months ago. Which means, that right now - its the wild west.

If you want to get this concept explained to you by the creator of Lightspace:

h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAP-BYI1mw
h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWs75BLCAA
h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsgOwi3pRMg

You know what? Maybe avsforum could write an article about that! Ah - dont bother... Just tell people increasing nits values every year - and most of them are happy...

Why see the need to make this a discussion about journalisitc standards in the business.

I don’t care what you can link to. I’m speaking of the reality of what is going on in Hollywood. By all means, take a trip to visit some of the post production houses there..... if you have the clout :)

Regarding all of your other posts in this thread..... you already are a shoe in for the “Player Hater of the Year” award, so stop trying so much. Or are you now focusing on the “Player Hater of the Decade” award?

You clearly don’t get it. “Don’t hate the player or the game. CHANGE IT!”

D-Nice 03-17-2018 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlekin (Post 55870646)
More fun adventure stories! Fun?

What :confused:

Quote:

Maybe you can explain to the people in here what they should do with a (meticulously) created list of all the differing standards indiividual studios release HDR material on.
”Don’t hate the player or the game. CHANGE IT!”

Quote:

Peak nits differ.
Color spaces differ.
Targets for bright highlights differ.

Also - because you didn't get the hint. The person in the video talking about 2000 nits as the standard she works to, actually final graded about 80 "major" motion pictures. You have not.
It is 2018, not 2016. Take a visit to Hollywood post production houses... if you actually can.

Quote:

To the others in here - its always fascinating how quickly people on AVS can cause a discussion about real issues into a fake out about individual attitudes.

Congratulations. Scott Wilkinson gets a free pass on this one as well - why not.

Cant wait for his reports how fun the visits to Netflix and Technicolor were.. Maybe on a scale of 1-10?

As a personal side note - I made this chart today:

[IMG]blob:https%3A//imgur.com/9ff6bf30-ef32-4c3f-b8da-984c9b7432f3[/IMG]

It shows all competing opinions about where various people think the whitepoint should be as supposed to where its according to the standards, on basically the same WOLED screen - just 3 years apart.

The values for the Technicolor correction were taken from this article.

Not wanting to talk about his one either? it would be topical.
”Don’t hate the player or the game. CHANGE IT!”

XBR11 03-17-2018 07:58 AM

How will the 2018 LGs effect pro calibration

Not saying that any ordinary consumers will be able to do their own, but I'm talking about the assertion that a calibration will take only take minutes instead of hours. And will it be possible for a pro to do a calibration via the web? If I could get a pro calibration via the web for $100 say and it was the exact same as an in person calibration for $500, well heck yeah! It would be a major selling point for the 2018 LGs.


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