LG 55" C8 4K HDR OLED TV First Impressions and Review - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 01:26 PM
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Dang I don't like retailers that jack up the price on things. Beachcamera has 10 of the 65" models in stock for sale but are charging 4k for it. Blah.
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post #392 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpen33 View Post
Dang I don't like retailers that jack up the price on things. Beachcamera has 10 of the 65" models in stock for sale but are charging 4k for it. Blah.
Supply and demand 101...

If you don't want to pay a premium to be one of the first to own the new TV within the first 1-2 weeks of launch, hold off until supply catches up with demand .

By November, when built-up supply will have far exceeded demand (meaning lots of inventory), Beach Camera will probably be selling the 65C8P for close to half of what they are asking today...
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post #393 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 01:45 PM
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^^^lol the hard part is patience!!!
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post #394 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's a no on 120 HZ with oddball 1080p resolutions. Also 4:4:4 chroma is not making it through 120 Hz 1080p intact, whether its 8-bit or higher..
Double-darn...it really does seem like the input capabilities are no different compared to the 2017 models.


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Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Has BFI that you can use in game mode
This reminded me - can BFI work with 120Hz 1080p input?

If so, does it actually do it between each source 120fps frame or is it applying the black/darkend frame overtop of every other source 120fps frame? (though, depending on how sensitive you are to motion, differentiating between the two may require recording a video of the display with a camera capable of 120+fps).


Lastly, if you set the input label to "PC", are you able to use any picture mode (including "ISF Expert") while still achieving the same low input lag of game mode by itself? This trick supposedly worked on the 2017 OLEDs.

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post #395 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tl24ss View Post
I’m not sure if this was already answered or not but how’s HDR Game Mode on the 2018 set? Is it as dim as the 2016/2017 series? Love my B6 and I have zero issues with it outside of the dim HDR Game Mode and would love more feedback on this mode for the 2018 series.
Well remember the 2016 game mode brightness dropped with a firmware update in the summer of 2016. The 2017 game mode brightness dropped with a firmware update in the summer of 2017. I don't like the trend in that pattern. No idea why LG did that to both the 2016 and 2017 models (After all they didn't release the 2017 already dropped the way they had done to the 2016, they did it later the same as in 2016, and now the 2018 is being released with game mode nice and bright.... for now perhaps).

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post #396 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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Very interested on the input lag in game mode.

If you can side by side it, with a TV/monitor of a known input lag and pull up a timer it would be great!

I believe the C6 was 34ms, C7 was 21ms, and here's hoping to 10ms!!

**We might be past the limits of simply comparing side-by-side like this since if the two cloned output signals are not in sync then measured results in the timer will have +-16ms timing error**

The smtt 2.0 screen timer was designed to overcome this, but unfortunately it is not free. (you can backdate your system clock and use the free license, but that is unethical )
http://smtt.thomasthiemann.com/index_en.html

You basically choose the highest number present from the three columns.

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post #397 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
I give my OLEDs a couple dozen hours before worrying about 5% slides.

As for differences. Slightly brighter. Has BFI that you can use in game mode (although I do not, it's 50% duty cycle at 60 Hz which is too much flicker for me). The new pixel structure and logo dimming should take some worry about burn-in away.

To me it is worth the extra $800 over what you can get a C7 for.
Congrats on your new C8, so would you say one of the biggest pros with the 2018 is brightness increase or something else in your view so far?

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post #398 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdk1091 View Post
Very interested on the input lag in game mode.

If you can side by side it, with a TV/monitor of a known input lag and pull up a timer it would be great!

I believe the C6 was 34ms, C7 was 21ms, and here's hoping to 10ms!!

**We might be past the limits of simply comparing side-by-side like this since if the two cloned output signals are not in sync then measured results in the timer will have +-16ms timing error**

The smtt 2.0 screen timer was designed to overcome this, but unfortunately it is not free. (you can backdate your system clock and use the free license, but that is unethical )
http://smtt.thomasthiemann.com/index_en.html

You basically choose the highest number present from the three columns.
It's apparently the same as the C7.
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post #399 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdk1091 View Post
**We might be past the limits of simply comparing side-by-side like this since if the two cloned output signals are not in sync then measured results in the timer will have +-16ms timing error**.
You can always bring that down to 8ms of precision by running at 120Hz 1080p instead.
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post #400 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
You can always bring that down to 8ms of precision by running at 120Hz 1080p instead.
The program I linked uses the same line of thinking, but instead it increases the precision up to +- 1ms (1000hz) WHILE your monitor is only operating at 60hz using a few clever tricks.

Your whole screen updates every 16.66ms at 60hz, but what you gotta understand that the screen is actually updated line by line.

The display actually:

Reads line 1
Draws line 1
Reads line 2
Draws line 2
etc.

Phsyical time elapses between the monitors read operations.
If you unlock your graphics cards frame limiter, you can have have the entire frame data the monitor reads from between its line draw operations actually change at rates of 1000-2000+hz !!

If you do the math, with 1080 vertical lines, every time the monitor draws 65 lines, 1ms in realtime has elapsed.

This means if you are on drawing line 195, lines 0-65 are from 3ms old, lines 65-130 are 2ms old, lines 130-195 are 1ms old, line 195 is present time.

What you are left comparing between two displays are the most recently updated groups of lines but these lines are able to be present different at vertical locations between the monitors, both with accurate times. This will eliminate the effects of timing differences making the comparisons show 1ms of error. This is a significant increase compared to the frame method that will always have up to 16ms error due to signal timing differences.

With this trick, even tho the two monitors may have their draw operations out of sync, they will still display the most recently frame generated available by the graphics card when comparing groups of vertical lines. The graphics card is capable of 1000hz precision.

TLDR:

The SMTT v2 timer is the only way to measure lag with 1ms accuracy using a camera.
Browser based timers have will led to a +- 16ms accuracy, no matter your camera shutter speed!

A 16ms accuracy is worthless when comparing differences at these levels!


--

To use the program, simply compare the two most recent times displayed between the two cloned monitors. (Really thats it !!)

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post #401 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
It's apparently the same as the C7.
Thats a shame as the response time of the OLED's themselves are sub 1ms.

This means 26ms is processing
Significant game mode improvements are able to be made.

OLED can surpass the holy grail of the crt analog signal passthrough!
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post #402 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 06:44 PM
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This means 26ms is processing
I thought the 2017 OLEDs achieved 21ms?
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post #403 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdk1091 View Post
This means 26ms is processing [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/IMG]
I thought the 2017 OLEDs achieved 21ms?
My mistake. Posted the correct number the first time around and fudged it the second time.

Reviews pegged the c7 at 21ms.

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post #404 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 07:44 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
At a high level:
1) The near black detail, noise, posterization is fixed on the LG and looks essentially identical to my Sony A1E after calibration. Nothing is perfect but in my opinion, it's good enough given the limitations of WLED.

2) Motion processing is still superior on the Sony. The LG does a great job and has improved for 2018. They did implement BFI but the slight flicker in brighter scenes might be annoying to watch.

3) Upscaling of cable, etc, is still superior on the Sony although LG has improved a lot here but in my opinion, they messed up by including the gradient and noise controls combined in one control.

4) HDR on the LG is noticeably brighter than the A1E probably due to the about 100-150 nits brighter panel this year. HDR tone mapping has completely changed and in my opinion is a lot better. LG really focuses on HDR and it is hard to beat.

5) DV processing on the LG is improved and pretty much matches the Sony. It's close enough with the Sony maybe having a slight edge in brightness due to processing.

6) ABL management on the LG is superior. With normal content the Sony and the LG look pretty much the same but when the screen exceeds a certain amount of overall white, like in a commercial, the LG is able to maintain that bright white screen while the Sony can't. You can really only notice this when you have the two sets side by side.

I'm sure other's have more opinions but i hope this helps
Just #4 alone makes this C8 a viable buy for me this summer.
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post #405 of 590 Old 03-29-2018, 09:10 PM
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That article says nothing about game mode HDR changes.
I thought the problem was it getting too dark, which they mentioned saying, "there has been an issue with playing Dolby Vision sources over HDMI that finds black levels suddenly reducing dramatically with certain dark scenes and content."

But I guess the game mode issue is something else. Anyway, they are working on new firmware for the quoted problem.
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post #406 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 01:08 AM
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I thought the problem was it getting too dark, which they mentioned saying, "there has been an issue with playing Dolby Vision sources over HDMI that finds black levels suddenly reducing dramatically with certain dark scenes and content."

But I guess the game mode issue is something else. Anyway, they are working on new firmware for the quoted problem.
Yes, two different issues.

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post #407 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Considering the high prices compared to close-out 2017 deals, was the upgrade to a 2018 model worth it? Is your 5% uniformity free of vertical banding like some of the other early 55" 2018 reports?
You know for the difference in price and the fundamental improvements in PQ, i would strongly suggest the 2018s. Also LG is "known" to improve things as the model year progresses so this time around, unless you totally can't afford it, you are probably best to go with the 2018.
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^^^
For those concerned about banding. To put things into perspective, every OLED with current OLED technology will have some sort of banding if you lower the brightness enough and look close. D-Nice, Tedd, and others have talked about the low luminance performance of OLEDs for a long time. That said, if the 2018's hold and banding has been basically addressed given the panel technology, then banding should not be a decision point on purchasing a set. On the other hand, tinting is caused by the panel filter and i don't see any significant tinting on the few set's I've looked at where in 2017, you can see some basically on all sets if you look carefully. This to me is a big improvement.

That's not to say that someone will get a bad panel and post a picture of it on AVS. Nothing is 100% but if LG has reduced banding and improved uniformity to a point where it's essentially not noticeable with content, then that's a good thing.
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As i watch my C8 every night, i'm finding that motion handling, while improved, is still not that great. But i found, in my case i have to raise Judder to at least 5 to get the picture to smooth out and set Deblur to 3 in order to get a reasonable picture. When some of the people here get a 2018, it would be interesting if they post what settings seem to work because these 2018s are different.

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post #410 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As i watch my C8 every night, i'm finding that motion handling, while improved, is still not that great. But i found, in my case i have to raise Judder to at least 5 to get the picture to smooth out and set Deblur to 3 in order to get a reasonable picture. When some of the people here get a 2018, it would be interesting if they post what settings seem to work because these 2018s are different.

How does DJ5 DB3 look compared to an A1E with Custom, 3, Low?
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post #411 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
^^^
For those concerned about banding. To put things into perspective, every OLED with current OLED technology will have some sort of banding if you lower the brightness enough and look close. D-Nice, Tedd, and others have talked about the low luminance performance of OLEDs for a long time. That said, if the 2018's hold and banding has been basically addressed given the panel technology, then banding should not be a decision point on purchasing a set. On the other hand, tinting is caused by the panel filter and i don't see any significant tinting on the few set's I've looked at where in 2017, you can see some basically on all sets if you look carefully. This to me is a big improvement.

That's not to say that someone will get a bad panel and post a picture of it on AVS. Nothing is 100% but if LG has reduced banding and improved uniformity to a point where it's essentially not noticeable with content, then that's a good thing.
This uniformity thing is overtalked, people will always overanalyze, if they really want to find issues then they will find them. If they can't find them then they can't accept that so they will find something else to moan about. If you need to look for it for seconds to find banding then it's not really an issue. There will be a camera cut sooner so you will miss it. And banding usually at the very right side. If you are into the movie/TV series/game then your focus is mostly on the center of the screen, I mean how often the focus is on the sides...

back to the real talk, I copy my question to you as well from the other thread:
Did you notice raised blacks with Dolby Vision via HDMI? or is this issue now in the past?
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post #412 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 09:33 AM
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This uniformity thing is overtalked, people will always overanalyze, if they really want to find issues then they will find them. If they can't find them then they can't accept that so they will find something else to moan about. If you need to look for it for seconds to find banding then it's not really an issue. There will be a camera cut sooner so you will miss it. And banding usually at the very right side. If you are into the movie/TV series/game then your focus is mostly on the center of the screen, I mean how often the focus is on the sides...

back to the real talk, I copy my question to you as well from the other thread:
Did you notice raised blacks with Dolby Vision via HDMI? or is this issue now in the past?
I'm going to play a DV BluRay today so i'll let you know. I don't believe it's corrected yet but i'm sure it will be by firmware update.
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
How does DJ5 DB3 look compared to an A1E with Custom, 3, Low?
There is no comparison to the Sony. Sony's motion processing is like looking through a motion corrected camera. Incredibly stable.

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post #414 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:00 AM
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There is no comparison to the Sony. Sony's motion processing is like looking through a motion corrected camera. Incredibly stable.

Bummer.

I was really hoping that LG would match Sony’s motion processing.

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post #415 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
There is no comparison to the Sony. Sony's motion processing is like looking through a motion corrected camera. Incredibly stable.
Do you have a Sony OLED as well?

Any insight as to what makes Sony's motion processing more stable? Is this related to motion interpolation or are there other technologies involved?
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post #416 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As i watch my C8 every night, i'm finding that motion handling, while improved, is still not that great. But i found, in my case i have to raise Judder to at least 5 to get the picture to smooth out and set Deblur to 3 in order to get a reasonable picture. When some of the people here get a 2018, it would be interesting if they post what settings seem to work because these 2018s are different.
Do you use those settings for all content or just sdr? What settings did you use on a 2017 for comparison? Thank you.
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post #417 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:43 AM
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There is no comparison to the Sony. Sony's motion processing is like looking through a motion corrected camera. Incredibly stable.
You mean without motion enhancements right? if everything turned off then motion should be about the same
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post #418 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As i watch my C8 every night, i'm finding that motion handling, while improved, is still not that great. But i found, in my case i have to raise Judder to at least 5 to get the picture to smooth out and set Deblur to 3 in order to get a reasonable picture. When some of the people here get a 2018, it would be interesting if they post what settings seem to work because these 2018s are different.
So whats the better Tv ? C8 or the A1 ?
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post #419 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 10:59 AM
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I have a B7a, was wondering about the upconversion of SD (OTA or cable) comparison on the new C8p versus 2017 LG OLEDs. I watch mostly OTA & SD from my Apple 4K box, I am within my 45 day return period. I do have a great panel, only slight banding at 5%. Would definitely consider the upgrade to the C8. I do not do gaming. Thanks!
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post #420 of 590 Old 03-30-2018, 11:08 AM
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I am so freaking bummed that the display does not accept [email protected] natively, like the Q9 does. First world problems and all, but was considering the Q9 and noticed it has different VESA mounting than my current C7... the C8 would be infinitely easier to re-mount lol
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