82"-85"+ LCD Vs. 77" OLED77C8PUA - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:08 AM
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^^^I don't remember any "oled fans" claiming black bars were grey, at least on fald displays...my 2017 vizio p series maintains black bars just fine.
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post #92 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
see the last picture you posted, oled fans would tell you lcd's have gray black bars during movies, IME personally based on owning a slightly higher sony lcd, x930e, these sony x series lcd's and the z9d can keep the black bars very black, only some instances of blooming you could get with hdr content where a portion of the black bar lights up, which can lessened in perception if you use a bias light. overall the black level of the recent x series cd's and z9d has seen huge improvements over what lcd's in general some years back (including sony lcd's ) had.


Using the flash makes blacks look much darker than they actually are. You can do this with any tv.
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post #93 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:20 AM
 
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Using the flash makes blacks look much darker than they actually are. You can do this with any tv.
the blacks actually look like that in a dark environment with a bias light on, i own a similar sony lcd model.
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post #94 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 AM
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Using a flash on the camera coupled with a fair amount of bias light in the room, this OLED fan knows that's no way to judge how much backlight glow may be present. 3D with no bias light has been escapism nirvana...now I just need a bigger screen with better grayscale uniformity.

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post #95 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:29 AM
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the blacks actually look like that in a dark environment with a bias light on, i own a similar sony lcd model.

Fooling your eyes don't actually mean the tv is producing deep dark blacks, you're simply altering your brains perception of what is reality.

Thats like telling someone your girlfriend looks like Jennifer Lawrence because your drunk goggles make her look that way lol "She's so hot when I'm wasted". Perception.
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post #96 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:30 AM
 
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these people who havent seen the said lcd's in person might use the camera's flash as the scapegoat but people who actually own and use one of these lcd's know for a fact that sony x1 xtreme lcd's blacks do go that black and this is not some flash effect at work here. that is why never depend on an 'oled only' owner who has never seen these or used these lcd's in person for his opinion on the lcd.
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post #97 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Fooling your eyes don't actually mean the tv is producing deep dark blacks, you're simply altering your brains perception of what is reality.

Thats like telling someone your girlfriend looks like Jennifer Lawrence because your drunk goggles make her look that way lol "She's so hot when I'm wasted". Perception.
i dont find jennifer lawrence hot.
nobody is fooling my eyes, a bias light can mitigate the perception of blooming, but you can turn it off, switch local dimming to high on sony x1e lcd's, the blacks bars do actually look that black , at least with sdr content.
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post #98 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
these people who havent seen the said lcd's in person might use the camera's flash as the scapegoat but people who actually own and use one of these lcd's know for a fact that sony x1 xtreme lcd's blacks do go that black and this is not some flash effect at work here. that is why never depend on an 'oled only' owner who has never seen these or used these lcd's in person for his opinion on the lcd.

I have a ks9800 and the blacks are better than the 930e. Both natively and with its local dimming. I know how the flash trickery works. I've never owned an OLED TV.
I did however own a Sony 850b 4k edge lit with horrible clouding. I tried taking pictures of said clouding and the flash made the blacks look jet inky like an OLED. So you cannot judge blacks when using a flash. The TV looks nice and it's big, so hia point was well taken.
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post #99 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
i dont find jennifer lawrence hot.
nobody is fooling my eyes, a bias light can mitigate the perception of blooming, but you can turn it off, switch local dimming to high on sony x1e lcd's, the blacks are actually that good , at least with sdr content with no boas light.

It's just an example. My God. There's always that 1 guy that thinks those edge lits have oled blacks lol there was a ks8000 owner like that. Got himself banned eventually for picking fights and going overboard.
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post #100 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:38 AM
 
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I have a ks9800 and the blacks are better than the 930e. Both natively and with its local dimming. I know how the flash trickery works. I've never owned an OLED TV.
I did however own a Sony 850b 4k edge lit with horrible clouding. I tried taking pictures of said clouding and the flash made the blacks look jet inky like an OLED. So you cannot judge blacks when using a flash. The TV looks nice and it's big, so hia point was well taken.
im not judging blacks when using a flash, im saying a similar sony lcd i own looks just like that picture right in front of me 6 ft. away. a sony x series lcd and the z9, with LD activated, keep the black bars very black, minus the instances of bloom you can get with hdr content occasionally.
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post #101 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 12:41 AM
 
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It's just an example. My God. There's always that 1 guy that thinks those edge lits have oled blacks lol there was a ks8000 owner like that. Got himself banned eventually for picking fights and going overboard.
again im not comparing the blacks to oled, there will be certain scenes in movies where an oled will show an advantage of deeper black. ..What im saying is, based on personal experience, that the picture the guy posted is not an inaccurate representation of how the sony x1e lcd 's blacks with LD activated look in person.
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post #102 of 157 Old 04-03-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Using a flash on the camera coupled with a fair amount of bias light in the room
Sure you can look at a picture of a TV, its worth a thousand words... I will not be analyzing picture quality off that said picture
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post #103 of 157 Old 04-04-2018, 08:56 AM
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these people who havent seen the said lcd's in person might use the camera's flash as the scapegoat but people who actually own and use one of these lcd's know for a fact that sony x1 xtreme lcd's blacks do go that black and this is not some flash effect at work here. that is why never depend on an 'oled only' owner who has never seen these or used these lcd's in person for his opinion on the lcd.
Well certainly Vincent's recent video comparing the XF90, XE90 and XE93 was pretty impressive. Amazing how good the XE93 (X930E) does backlight control for an edgelit display. That thing is not a normal edgelit LCD. It's not OLED, but pretty impressive. And the XF90 (X900F) certainly is an improvement over the XE90 (X900E).
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post #104 of 157 Old 04-08-2018, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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So did you check out the tv's at the store? like i said, if you only saw the x900f without any tv to compare to on the side, you'll find the x900f a massive jump over your sharp lcd. and factoring in you distance, 14.5 ft., well that's close to 15 ft., at that distance your eyes may not resolve all the extra detail that 4k's increased pixel count provides over 1080p using a 75 or 77" tv. So if you cannot move in at least a feet or two, i would say that a 77" or 75" may not be apt and a 85" might be better.
Also going down in panel size because the lower sized panels generally appear more uniform is only an issue with current oleds. with x900f, this is a non factor, a 75" x900f (it's not available in 77) wont be more uniform than a 85.
For PQ, now if you stack in the sony 77" oled s-b-s against the x900f, you'd notice that in film based content, the oled looks punchier with certain scenes. otherwise, factoring in all types of content than just movies, the x900f's blacks are still very good and obviously lot better than your sharp tv.

and is the price difference really double? so you'd be going a little lower in screen size with a sony oled (compared to your 80" sharp) and paying 2x of a sony 85" x900f. I doubt that for the sake of punchier blacks in some movie based content, the price and downgrade in size of the sony oled is worth it.

do tell what you find out at the store seeing the tv's.
Finally made it to Magnolia on Friday. My mind is definitely is made up now for the X900F without an ounce of doubt. The Magnolia representative agreed with me 100%. The OLED displays were super impressive and the true blacks and vivid imagery were something to behold. The differences between OLED and LED were very apparent as were the differences between all the brands' inherent technologies. After doing so much research. It was nice to experience everything first hand and "in the field".

After evaluating all the different viewing scenarios it became crystal clear that I need to size up at this point, even if it means begrudgingly passing up on OLED technology for this next TV purchase. 4K technology overall is leaps and bounds beyond what I currently have at home. While the OLED displays were far superior to the LED's, it is jut not going to work in my application - very bright room, 14.5' seating distance, watching 80% upscaled content and coming from the 80" I have now.

I guess 4-5 years from now I will just need to spring for a 100" 8K OLED.

Thanks again everyone for all your help!

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post #105 of 157 Old 04-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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Finally made it to Magnolia on Friday. My mind is definitely is made up now for the X900F without an ounce of doubt. The Magnolia representative agreed with me 100%. The OLED displays were super impressive and the true blacks and vivid imagery were something to behold. The differences between OLED and LED were very apparent as were the differences between all the brands' inherent technologies. After doing so much research. It was nice to experience everything first hand and "in the field".

After evaluating all the different viewing scenarios it became crystal clear that I need to size up at this point, even if it means begrudgingly passing up on OLED technology for this next TV purchase. 4K technology overall is leaps and bounds beyond what I currently have at home. While the OLED displays were far superior to the LED's, it is jut not going to work in my application - very bright room, 14.5' seating distance, watching 80% upscaled content and coming from the 80" I have now.

I guess 4-5 years from now I will just need to spring for a 100" 8K OLED.

Thanks again everyone for all your help!
100", probably not, but by 2022-2023, 88" 8K WOLEDs may well be available for close to the price you're paying for your new 85" X900F today .

Best of luck with your new TV!
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post #106 of 157 Old 04-08-2018, 04:27 PM
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Was at Best Buy Magnolia this past weekend, again, and again came to the exact same conclusion when viewing the OLEDs, LCDs, QLEDs, etc.

There is no comparison - the OLEDs win every time.
Trouble with BB is they always have a 4K demo running, at least around where I live.
I want to know how well the LG C8 does with 1080i material. Most of what I watch is directv stuff. Sports etc.
I wonder who does the best in upscaling as well as excellent PQ.

Oled, Lcd's like the Q9FN or Sony 900F?
Maybe there is a trade off involved
Still keep changing my mind.
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post #107 of 157 Old 04-08-2018, 09:50 PM
 
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With 480i/576i sony upscales better than all others, 720p and 1080i is a little better, i found that the lower the resolution is, the sony comes out better, especially if you have dual database processing turned on on sony x1 xtreme tv's by turning on reality creation to like 30 or 40.
in terms of scaling, i think sony is better, then panasonic, samsung and last lg.

@audeophyle , so you're going with x900f. IMPO, oled's difference from a high end lcd (though im not sure if x900f qualifies as a high end or midrange model) is not as pronounced, some scenes are there where the oled throws more punch but how many overall, im not gazing at starry skies all the time am i , or get excited when the credits start to roll on a black blackground and there is no light spill from the white characters (credit screens are immaterial). overall i think when all content is factored in , there isnt a major leap, i have demoed some of these lcd's, own one of them, and have also seen lg c7, in a light controlled room at that. If you were to get a second tv primarily for movie watching , an oled can be a good choice (though im not really looking to do that since i use my projector combined with my lcd for movie purpose, lcd gets used for 4k hdr movies, the sdr projector for other movies) but i wouldnt use oled as the primary tv for browsing, streaming, tv viewing i.e. multipurpose usage.

Usage scenarios and viewing habits do play a role in making a decision for people. Anyway, BOL with your x900f.
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post #108 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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With 480i/576i sony upscales better than all others, 720p and 1080i is a little better, i found that the lower the resolution is, the sony comes out better, especially if you have dual database processing turned on on sony x1 xtreme tv's by turning on reality creation to like 30 or 40.
in terms of scaling, i think sony is better, then panasonic, samsung and last lg.

@audeophyle , so you're going with x900f. IMPO, oled's difference from a high end lcd (though im not sure if x900f qualifies as a high end or midrange model) is not as pronounced, some scenes are there where the oled throws more punch but how many overall, im not gazing at starry skies all the time am i , or get excited when the credits start to roll on a black blackground and there is no light spill from the white characters (credit screens are immaterial). overall i think when all content is factored in , there isnt a major leap, i have demoed some of these lcd's, own one of them, and have also seen lg c7, in a light controlled room at that. If you were to get a second tv primarily for movie watching , an oled can be a good choice (though im not really looking to do that since i use my projector combined with my lcd for movie purpose, lcd gets used for 4k hdr movies, the sdr projector for other movies) but i wouldnt use oled as the primary tv for browsing, streaming, tv viewing i.e. multipurpose usage.

Usage scenarios and viewing habits do play a role in making a decision for people. Anyway, BOL with your x900f.

After pouring over so many reviews, ratings, and getting feedback from the board, I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective ...especially after demoing the units in person. Although something did catch my attention when you mentioned the X900f may not be a true "high end" model. I wanted to find out more about this and see is there maybe something I am missing out on.

So apparently the X900F is considered a mid-range priced unit with high end performance. Since it is right at my $5K budget, I probably should not worry about this mid-range/high-end label too much. According to rtings, X900F is the highest ranked PQ LED TV available - ranked above the Z9D and the X930E, both of which are apparently considered "high-end." The only tv's ranked higher than x900f for PQ are the three LG OLED Products and the Sony A1E OLED. So I think I am good to go!

Since this is for multipurpose use, bright room, far seating distance, etc. the X900f is my best choice ...esp since I need something on the larger size. Had I been sitting closer and watching primarily 4K source, a stronger argument could be made for OLED.

Thanks all!

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post #109 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 01:56 PM
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100", probably not, but by 2022-2023, 88" 8K WOLEDs may well be available for close to the price you're paying for your new 85" X900F today .

Best of luck with your new TV!
We can probably start the 100" LCD vs 88" OLED thread now.
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post #110 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 05:19 PM
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A picture of the box it came in and some of it on the wall. Great picture and it's huge!
Congrats on that monster, pictures don't do justice of how really huge that tv is. I remember when I replaced my 55" Panasonic gt50 plasma with the 79" sonyxbr900b and damn the difference in size was astronomical.
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post #111 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 05:32 PM
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Trouble with BB is they always have a 4K demo running, at least around where I live.
I want to know how well the LG C8 does with 1080i material. Most of what I watch is directv stuff. Sports etc.
I wonder who does the best in upscaling as well as excellent PQ.

Oled, Lcd's like the Q9FN or Sony 900F?
Maybe there is a trade off involved
Still keep changing my mind.
So why don't you tell them to switch to cable/sat feed? If they want to make a sale, they will. Heck you can even bring your own bluray player or usb with your favourite content to check how it performs with any tv. You just have to let them know you are very interested in purchasing but not until you can check the TV's upscaling capabilities.
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post #112 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 06:13 PM
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So why don't you tell them to switch to cable/sat feed? If they want to make a sale, they will. Heck you can even bring your own bluray player or usb with your favourite content to check how it performs with any tv. You just have to let them know you are very interested in purchasing but not until you can check the TV's upscaling capabilities.
I take both a blu-ray and a USB thumb drive with me now. They will let me use my stuff in the magnolia store since their displays are not build into the wall like the ones in the BB side.

However most of the displays I am interested in are on the Magnolia side, so its not really an issue now. I have downloaded some B&W 50's movies like Citizen Kane or just HD trailers to view. If it looks good one the set that's a big plus for me.
Put in The 3rd Man movie made in the 50's and it looked great on the Z9D. If it was only a little bigger

I run some 4K material on them but that only tells me so much. I'm sure there is a better system just haven't thought of it yet lol.
Of course there are the reviews and forums.
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post #113 of 157 Old 04-10-2018, 06:59 PM
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After pouring over so many reviews, ratings, and getting feedback from the board, I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective ...especially after demoing the units in person. Although something did catch my attention when you mentioned the X900f may not be a true "high end" model. I wanted to find out more about this and see is there maybe something I am missing out on.

So apparently the X900F is considered a mid-range priced unit with high end performance. Since it is right at my $5K budget, I probably should not worry about this mid-range/high-end label too much. According to rtings, X900F is the highest ranked PQ LED TV available - ranked above the Z9D and the X930E, both of which are apparently considered "high-end." The only tv's ranked higher than x900f for PQ are the three LG OLED Products and the Sony A1E OLED. So I think I am good to go!

Since this is for multipurpose use, bright room, far seating distance, etc. the X900f is my best choice ...esp since I need something on the larger size. Had I been sitting closer and watching primarily 4K source, a stronger argument could be made for OLED.

Thanks all!
You're reasoning sounds good to me, I may go that route as well.
Tho I'm not sure the 900F has better PQ over the Z9D. If they made an 85" I'd be watching it now.

Going up to Value Electronics this weekend and see Robert. He says he has the Q9FN, 85"900F and the C8 out.
Going to take a good hard look.
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post #114 of 157 Old 04-13-2018, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
You're reasoning sounds good to me, I may go that route as well.
Tho I'm not sure the 900F has better PQ over the Z9D. If they made an 85" I'd be watching it now.

Going up to Value Electronics this weekend and see Robert. He says he has the Q9FN, 85"900F and the C8 out.
Going to take a good hard look.
According to rtings 900F is ranked one notch above Z9D but primarily due to better motion handling. Since I am primarily mixed use and movies, an 85" Z9 (if one were to exist) would be the better choice for me as well I suppose. I guess there is always the 100" Z9D ..it's only like an extra $55K for a few more inches :-)

Jokes aside, the C8 will likely blow away the 900F PQ in person, especially when showcasing high contrast 4K HDR starry skies, etc. But for me it all comes down to my unique factors ...seating distance, bright room, and primarily will be watching upscaled content. If your variables are different then you will surely be facing a much more difficult decision. Let us know how it goes!

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post #115 of 157 Old 04-14-2018, 06:27 AM
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82"-85"+ LCD Vs. 77" OLED77C8PUA

Hi all...latecomer to this thread, but some great info, along with the usual interwebz entertainment...LOL.

Similar situation here: I have a 3 1/2 year old 80” Sharp from Costco (don’t know the specific model #, but probably similar to the OP’s panel) in a large family room with bright windows (Phoenix, AZ) on one side. Viewing distance from the primary seats (my wife and I) is about 12’ (less than the OP) and less than 0-10 degrees off-center. Secondary viewing (guests) is about 8-10’ on the sides, and around 30-degrees off-center.

Primary viewing for movies (less Blu-Ray these days, and more streamed content from Netflix or Cox) and TV shows (Netflix or Cox) is at night and in the relative dark (though not total dark, as we always have accent lights on). I watch lots of sports; however, and much of that is during the days on weekends (football, golf, NASCAR, etc), which makes two things very important to me: motion handling for live sports and picture quality in a bright room during the daytime (though we draw the blinds a bit to eliminate big time glare and brightness).

I loved the PQ of my previous plasmas (Pioneer and Samsung), and have decided long ago that my next panel will be OLED, period, the end. And the biggest size I can get (realistically) is 77”, so I’d take the 3” hit for the OLED PQ, just like the OP was originally contemplating. Also like the OP, my budget is around $5K, and I’ve been watching/hoping/expecting the price point for the 77” LG OLED to get there around Black Friday. Pining for it.

Now after reading through this whole thread, I am conflicted. I mean, I have had ZERO doubt about wanting OLED...but now I do. Will I miss the 3”? And not just that, but should I grab another 2-5”? Will the OLED actually be “not as good as it could/should be” in my room, given my parameters? Can I actually get “good enough PQ for me” in the Sony that is being talked about, given my viewing parameters? And so forth...

Anyway, thought I’d throw this out, because I, too, appreciate the expertise and guidance, as this is a big deal and a big expenditure for me, and I want to make sure to do my due diligence. Here are a couple crappy iPhone pics to help quantify my exact setup. I have a great audio setup with a nice receiver and directional speakers in the ceiling, front and rear. As you all know, this our de facto “movie theater”, and it needs to rock.

Thanks in advance for any input.




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Last edited by waltinaz; 04-14-2018 at 06:32 AM.
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post #116 of 157 Old 04-14-2018, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
Hi all...latecomer to this thread, but some great info, along with the usual interwebz entertainment...LOL.

Similar situation here: I have a 3 1/2 year old 80” Sharp from Costco (don’t know the specific model #, but probably similar to the OP’s panel) in a large family room with bright windows (Phoenix, AZ) on one side. Viewing distance from the primary seats (my wife and I) is about 12’ (less than the OP) and less than 0-10 degrees off-center. Secondary viewing (guests) is about 8-10’ on the sides, and around 30-degrees off-center.

Primary viewing for movies (less Blu-Ray these days, and more streamed content from Netflix or Cox) and TV shows (Netflix or Cox) is at night and in the relative dark (though not total dark, as we always have accent lights on). I watch lots of sports; however, and much of that is during the days on weekends (football, golf, NASCAR, etc), which makes two things very important to me: motion handling for live sports and picture quality in a bright room during the daytime (though we draw the blinds a bit to eliminate big time glare and brightness).

I loved the PQ of my previous plasmas (Pioneer and Samsung), and have decided long ago that my next panel will be OLED, period, the end. And the biggest size I can get (realistically) is 77”, so I’d take the 3” hit for the OLED PQ, just like the OP was originally contemplating. Also like the OP, my budget is around $5K, and I’ve been watching/hoping/expecting the price point for the 77” LG OLED to get there around Black Friday. Pining for it.

Now after reading through this whole thread, I am conflicted. I mean, I have had ZERO doubt about wanting OLED...but now I do. Will I miss the 3”? And not just that, but should I grab another 2-5”? Will the OLED actually be “not as good as it could/should be” in my room, given my parameters? Can I actually get “good enough PQ for me” in the Sony that is being talked about, given my viewing parameters? And so forth...

Anyway, thought I’d throw this out, because I, too, appreciate the expertise and guidance, as this is a big deal and a big expenditure for me, and I want to make sure to do my due diligence. Here are a couple crappy iPhone pics to help quantify my exact setup. I have a great audio setup with a nice receiver and directional speakers in the ceiling, front and rear. As you all know, this our de facto “movie theater”, and it needs to rock.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Also, we/I don’t do any gaming whatsoever, so not a factor.

From glancing at the models, how much “better” is the 900F vs the previous year’s 850D?

I’ll also qualify: Not trying to “talk myself out of” the OLED I’ve had my heart and mind set on for a while, BUT...if I do want to make a very-informed decision.

Thanks again!




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post #117 of 157 Old 04-14-2018, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by audeophyle View Post
OP Here. I am only more confused now ...I do have a bright room, but my "critical viewing" is with lights off. Sure, I do watch in the bright environment at times ..in fact probably most of the time ...but when I am looking to really sink into a movie (and crank the volume) it is usually at night with the lights off. Plus, I have never considered brightness really a factor other than maybe the TV out on my lanai (in direct sunlight) lol. Apart from this setting I have never been concerned about brightness ...one learns to conditions one's self living in the "Sunshine State" I suppose.

I already made the mistake of going for size over PQ with the Sharp 80". Loved the size upgrade from my Panasonic 65" Plasma, but missed the PQ. I think I am going to regret not getting OLED at this stage more than I would regret losing 3" of viewing area. I will always wonder "what if" ...the problem is I have seen the side by side comparisons of OLED / QLED / LED. Someone like us on this board can never remove such a vision from memory!

I guess my question at this point IS, how will the upscaling be with the OLED77C8PUA? I am sure most of my viewing will be upscaled 1080i/1080p content. Will this look atrocious? If so, that would be something to really consider ...would not be worth the trade-off of tongue on floor during 4K viewing vs. annoyance the rest of the time because the upscaling is poor.

In the back of my mind I will miss the 3" larger screen (or 21.9% more as someone put it). But I will be happier, I believe, knowing I have the best PQ known to mankind.

Then again the XBR85X900F 85-Inch is a pretty darned awesome TV - FALD VA Panel, deep blacks, very good upscaling and a heck of a lot larger!

Thoughts???
Let me share my experience. I had a 40" 1080p LCD sitting 10' away. I enjoyed it and the picture was great. Still have it now in my bedroom. In November of 2015 I stumbled upon a great price for a 55" entry level LG 4K TV. I have that now in my main living room sitting 10' away. Even with it upscaling content and being entry level it blew the picture quality away when compared to my 40", but it wasn't it's better blacks I appreciated. This last Christmas I finally got my basement area cleared out and set up a "theater" with my surround and everything. I got the 65" LG OLED and only sit 6' away. Picture quality is stunning and sitting that close I don't have a desire for bigger currently. Now when I watch my 55" even at night with lights off, I don't notice a huge difference with 1080 or lower quality except in really dark scenes. Even then it doesn't bother me as much as I wish I had a bigger screen.

So based on my experience and what I am understanding from your posts, I say go for the Sony. They have an excellent picture and sometimes bigger is better. At 15' back I don't think the average person's eyesight will notice where the perfect black and individual pixel control makes up the difference in having a bigger screen.
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post #118 of 157 Old 04-14-2018, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by waltinaz View Post
Hi all...latecomer to this thread, but some great info, along with the usual interwebz entertainment...LOL.

Similar situation here: I have a 3 1/2 year old 80” Sharp from Costco (don’t know the specific model #, but probably similar to the OP’s panel) in a large family room with bright windows (Phoenix, AZ) on one side. Viewing distance from the primary seats (my wife and I) is about 12’ (less than the OP) and less than 0-10 degrees off-center. Secondary viewing (guests) is about 8-10’ on the sides, and around 30-degrees off-center.

Primary viewing for movies (less Blu-Ray these days, and more streamed content from Netflix or Cox) and TV shows (Netflix or Cox) is at night and in the relative dark (though not total dark, as we always have accent lights on). I watch lots of sports; however, and much of that is during the days on weekends (football, golf, NASCAR, etc), which makes two things very important to me: motion handling for live sports and picture quality in a bright room during the daytime (though we draw the blinds a bit to eliminate big time glare and brightness).

I loved the PQ of my previous plasmas (Pioneer and Samsung), and have decided long ago that my next panel will be OLED, period, the end. And the biggest size I can get (realistically) is 77”, so I’d take the 3” hit for the OLED PQ, just like the OP was originally contemplating. Also like the OP, my budget is around $5K, and I’ve been watching/hoping/expecting the price point for the 77” LG OLED to get there around Black Friday. Pining for it.

Now after reading through this whole thread, I am conflicted. I mean, I have had ZERO doubt about wanting OLED...but now I do. Will I miss the 3”? And not just that, but should I grab another 2-5”? Will the OLED actually be “not as good as it could/should be” in my room, given my parameters? Can I actually get “good enough PQ for me” in the Sony that is being talked about, given my viewing parameters? And so forth...

Anyway, thought I’d throw this out, because I, too, appreciate the expertise and guidance, as this is a big deal and a big expenditure for me, and I want to make sure to do my due diligence. Here are a couple crappy iPhone pics to help quantify my exact setup. I have a great audio setup with a nice receiver and directional speakers in the ceiling, front and rear. As you all know, this our de facto “movie theater”, and it needs to rock.

Thanks in advance for any input.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Funny how similar our situations are! I too was leaning towards the 77" OLED when I started this thread, but now I am 110% decided on the Sony. I realized that much of what I watch is not 4K source material and in these cases the Sony would perform substantially better than the LG OLED. Also, after researching just about anything relevant I could find related to the actual "science" behind HT, I realize screen size is a huge factor when it comes to immersiveness of your viewing experience. I too had a Panasonic 65" Plasma prior to this Sharp. I still have the Panasonic in another room and the PQ on that one is 300% better than the Sharp. Yet, I was blown away by the massive upgrade in size and definitely didn't regret getting the Sharp ...have enjoyed it immensely these past few years, esp. 3d movies. For me, you gotta go big or go home. Even though I demand nothing but the best of the best, in this unique case you and I are in my friend, having the best PQ is actually not the best in our situations. We would only TRULY notice any substantial difference in PQ when the credits roll or during extreme contrasty scenes such as starry skies, etc. The improvement in PQ would be undeniable, but marginal. Is this worth sacrificing having a MUCH smaller screen and poorer PQ during a bulk of our viewing time? Not IMHO. Not to mention the Sony is half the price of the LG ...we can buy it NOW, and not have to wait for a Black Friday pipe dream. :-)

Each person has their own perspective and it will be interesting to see where you go with this. Oddly the one thing that helped me the most after doing all the research, was sitting on my couch, watching a BlueRay with all the lights out, and imagining each option. How would I perceive each TV? How would they compare? Around this time also in this discussion the Sony started to become a very clear choice. Then once I pretty much had my mind made up, went to Magnolia to review similar sets. That experience was also very helpful in sealing my decision. I found that the PQ was highly subjective and really depended more on what source material was being played and the environment of each screen. I proceeded to speak with a very intelligent representative there who agreed the Sony would be the best solution given the circumstances.

The bottom line for me is sure the LG does have better PQ without a doubt, but in my case the high end PQ of the Sony combined with the size advantage and also the price, makes it a clear choice.

To answer your question about how the Sony 900F compares to the older model, according to rtings the 900F is the highest rated 4K TV below the OLED sets. The only 5 sets rated higher than the 900F are the 3 LG OLED's and the Sony A1E OLED ..and all of those are going to be much smaller and twice as expensive or more. Most other sites and reviews seem to support these same valuations as do the board members. The Sony X850E is rated #16 btw. The 900F FALD processing is better than most any LED out there today ..which is nice considering it is an 85" set to boot. It will also support Dolby Vision. So good luck on this one my friend! I hope it will be an easier decision for you than it was for me.

Main: Sony X900F 85" LED, Denon AVRX7200WA, Klipsh RC64II, RF7II (x2), CDT5650 C II (x8), PSA 15V Sub, RSL Speedwoofer 10S Sub
Home Gym: AVR3312CI, RC62II , RF62 II (x2), Polk RC80i (x2), R112SW Sub, Panasonic 65" Plasma
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post #119 of 157 Old 04-14-2018, 08:28 PM
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82"-85"+ LCD Vs. 77" OLED77C8PUA

Quote:
Originally Posted by audeophyle View Post
Funny how similar our situations are! I too was leaning towards the 77" OLED when I started this thread, but now I am 110% decided on the Sony. I realized that much of what I watch is not 4K source material and in these cases the Sony would perform substantially better than the LG OLED. Also, after researching just about anything relevant I could find related to the actual "science" behind HT, I realize screen size is a huge factor when it comes to immersiveness of your viewing experience. I too had a Panasonic 65" Plasma prior to this Sharp. I still have the Panasonic in another room and the PQ on that one is 300% better than the Sharp. Yet, I was blown away by the massive upgrade in size and definitely didn't regret getting the Sharp ...have enjoyed it immensely these past few years, esp. 3d movies. For me, you gotta go big or go home. Even though I demand nothing but the best of the best, in this unique case you and I are in my friend, having the best PQ is actually not the best in our situations. We would only TRULY notice any substantial difference in PQ when the credits roll or during extreme contrasty scenes such as starry skies, etc. The improvement in PQ would be undeniable, but marginal. Is this worth sacrificing having a MUCH smaller screen and poorer PQ during a bulk of our viewing time? Not IMHO. Not to mention the Sony is half the price of the LG ...we can buy it NOW, and not have to wait for a Black Friday pipe dream. :-)

Each person has their own perspective and it will be interesting to see where you go with this. Oddly the one thing that helped me the most after doing all the research, was sitting on my couch, watching a BlueRay with all the lights out, and imagining each option. How would I perceive each TV? How would they compare? Around this time also in this discussion the Sony started to become a very clear choice. Then once I pretty much had my mind made up, went to Magnolia to review similar sets. That experience was also very helpful in sealing my decision. I found that the PQ was highly subjective and really depended more on what source material was being played and the environment of each screen. I proceeded to speak with a very intelligent representative there who agreed the Sony would be the best solution given the circumstances.

The bottom line for me is sure the LG does have better PQ without a doubt, but in my case the high end PQ of the Sony combined with the size advantage and also the price, makes it a clear choice.

To answer your question about how the Sony 900F compares to the older model, according to rtings the 900F is the highest rated 4K TV below the OLED sets. The only 5 sets rated higher than the 900F are the 3 LG OLED's and the Sony A1E OLED ..and all of those are going to be much smaller and twice as expensive or more. Most other sites and reviews seem to support these same valuations as do the board members. The Sony X850E is rated #16 btw. The 900F FALD processing is better than most any LED out there today ..which is nice considering it is an 85" set to boot. It will also support Dolby Vision. So good luck on this one my friend! I hope it will be an easier decision for you than it was for me.

Thanks for the response! I’m hoping to leverage all the work and research your did...LOL!

A few questions and comments, based on your comments:
- I don’t watch ANY 4K source material right now, and frankly, don’t know when I will. I guess I will when “4K DVD’s” are readily available, but most of my viewing is cable TV or streaming from Netflix or HBO, and I don’t think any of those sources will be putting out 4K in the near future. So all that said, on non-4K material, why will the Sony perform “substantially better than the LG OLED”, as you stated?
- I agree with your re the immersiveness. Having as big a screen as I can get is important to me, and I really, REALLY enjoy the immersiveness of that big screen while watching sports, movies and shows. I do worry about “losing” some of that with a smaller screen, albeit, just a 3” decrease.
- My primary viewing distance is about 12’, and yours is about 14.5’. How do you feel that changes the calculus? One might feel that with me being closer, at 12’, that the benefits of OLED will become more apparent.
- I know you said that off-axis viewing was not a factor for you, but I am somewhat concerned about it. Did you notice anything in your research that indicated that the Sony will be better, or substantially better, than our current Sharps?
- What other key findings did you make that helped sway you to the Sony? And I know you took your time, but in the end, it seemed like a slam dunk for you. What made it SO compelling?

Thanks for your input!



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post #120 of 157 Old 04-15-2018, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response! I’m hoping to leverage all the work and research your did...LOL!

A few questions and comments, based on your comments:
- I don’t watch ANY 4K source material right now, and frankly, don’t know when I will. I guess I will when “4K DVD’s” are readily available, but most of my viewing is cable TV or streaming from Netflix or HBO, and I don’t think any of those sources will be putting out 4K in the near future. So all that said, on non-4K material, why will the Sony perform “substantially better than the LG OLED”, as you stated?
- I agree with your re the immersiveness. Having as big a screen as I can get is important to me, and I really, REALLY enjoy the immersiveness of that big screen while watching sports, movies and shows. I do worry about “losing” some of that with a smaller screen, albeit, just a 3” decrease.
- My primary viewing distance is about 12’, and yours is about 14.5’. How do you feel that changes the calculus? One might feel that with me being closer, at 12’, that the benefits of OLED will become more apparent.
- I know you said that off-axis viewing was not a factor for you, but I am somewhat concerned about it. Did you notice anything in your research that indicated that the Sony will be better, or substantially better, than our current Sharps?
- What other key findings did you make that helped sway you to the Sony? And I know you took your time, but in the end, it seemed like a slam dunk for you. What made it SO compelling?

Thanks for your input!



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Hello,

My entire decision making process is documented in this discussion thread. If you read through from the beginning, or at least my personal comments, you will experience first hand the thought process I went through, which was only by being guided by the super genius individuals who reside here. I cannot be more grateful for the assistance and knowledge I received.

The Sony will display non-4K content better because both TV's upscale non-4K content to 4K. If I understand correctly, the Sony performs much better in this area.

OLED does have better off-center viewing, but I am not sure how much a factor that is. It is good to get down to BB/Magnolia and evaluate similar TV's as the ones you are considering to get a true feel of this first hand.

At 12.5' distance you technically would need a 70" screen to even notice the higher resolution of 1080p. You would need a 100" to begin noticing the higher detail of 4K. However, despite not being able to see the actual pixel detail, I believe we still retain a higher viewing quality when employing a higher resolution screen. Of course distance is a factor. That's why at my distance, I definitely feel I need to not step down from 80". But much of this "science" is purely subjective and much is psychological, so it really depends on your unique mindset and what you feel is your most important personal criteria.

The slam dunks if I did not mention them already were

1. I definitely need a screen larger than 80" based on my seating distance and the fact that I have 80" now.
2. Most of the content I am watching is not 4K source material, so it will look better when upscaled by the Sony vs. the LG OLED.
3. I have a bright room and the Sony is a much brighter display.
4. The superiority of OLED vs. LED is not as substantial as it is passionately made out to be, especially with a very solid performer as the 900F.
5. The superiority of OLED is mostly apparent when you have extremely contrasty scenes such as starry skies or when the credits roll.
6. The 85" Sony is 22% Larger than the 77" LG OLED and costs half as much
7. The Sony is at my budget, the LG is twice my budget

Hope that helps!

Main: Sony X900F 85" LED, Denon AVRX7200WA, Klipsh RC64II, RF7II (x2), CDT5650 C II (x8), PSA 15V Sub, RSL Speedwoofer 10S Sub
Home Gym: AVR3312CI, RC62II , RF62 II (x2), Polk RC80i (x2), R112SW Sub, Panasonic 65" Plasma
Zone #2 (Lanai): Denon HEOS Amp, Polk RC80i (x2), LG 43" LED DJ Studio: Event PS8's
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