Sony A1E Dimming Defect - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 468 Old 05-05-2018, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Has this shown up on the 2018 A8?


No because there has been no dv update yet, in fact no software updates thus far.
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post #122 of 468 Old 05-05-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post
We need to harass Sony and the press about this problem - similar to the fiasco of Dolby Vision over HDMI a few months ago. Forbes wrote that piece first?

Tweet/Facebook and bringing it up to media outlets might put enough pressure on Sony to respond.
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Originally Posted by caitsith01 View Post
I have just contacted Sony support asking them to repair this or else refund my purchase of this TV.

I watched football last night for the first time in a while on terrestrial broadcast TV (HD, 1080i). This is Aussie rules footy where the score is on the screen the whole time, but the image is otherwise moving at a fast pace (see the video here which is highlights from last night's game - note the score in the bottom left corner: http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-05-...-geelong-v-gws ).

After 1-2 minutes of action the TV very aggressively dimmed the image, to the extent that it looked like the lights were dimming at the stadium. It became tiresome and unpleasant to watch the game. Every time a goal was scored there would be an ad break after which the image would be back to its best before dimming again after 1-2 minutes.

This is totally unacceptable to me - the set was purchased for gaming, watching sport and watching movies and two out of those three activities are severely impacted by this problem.

Under Australian law consumers have a right to a repair or refund where a product has a fault - I think particularly given that Sony has added this problem without warning after purchase that there is a strong argument that they must either fix it or give me my money back.

Commercially I cannot fathom why Sony would ruin a beautiful, high end product in this way. It's insanity.
Sorry for the late responses everyone. Here's a little update for you. During my conference call last week, I brought up the issue to the teams above me that can pass this issue along to our engineers. They are aware and are working on a fix. But no ETA at this time. Thank you for the support. Here's an email of our conversation for those that just believe I'm just some random guy.

Sony Dolby Vision Update Dimming Issue Update
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post #123 of 468 Old 05-06-2018, 04:49 AM
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I'm based in Australia and can confirm the TV is dimming on my 65'' A1 as well, especially on Live TV broadcasts. The normal picture is restored when I press Volume Up.

Last edited by john2069; 05-06-2018 at 04:55 AM.
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post #124 of 468 Old 05-06-2018, 07:27 PM
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It's good to hear that people at Sony are at least talking about this, but it's still disappointing that there is no public, official acknowledgement of the problem and many people contacting customer service are being told this is a normal function of the TV and within specifications.

I know a little bit about Japanese corporate culture and to me, this is typical of it - slow moving decision making, refusal to acknowledge mistakes, different parts of the same organisation acting inconsistently with one another, needing certain specific people within the organisation to take an interest before progress can be made, etc.
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post #125 of 468 Old 05-06-2018, 11:11 PM
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FYI, This is also now being discussed on Reddit in the Bravia subReddit
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post #126 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 06:52 AM
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I'm a bit mystified by this issue.

I did the latest FW update that Sony sent over the network & it is the one being referenced.

Other than when I have the color light sensor turned on for "normal" cable TV viewing (lowers brightness in my room), I haven't noticed any dimming or changing brightness. The only time I see the screen dim is when the sensor is on and after the first several minutes of being turned on, the screen gradually dims then it remains stable at least to my eyes.

I watch content from BD, UHD/HDR, cable & DVD. I turn off the sensor for disc-based content so that I get full calibrated brightness. The TV has been ISF calibrated for the usual - Rec 709, enhanced color gamut, SDR & HDR10/Dolby Vision.

I do not game.

If this update caused this, it's embedded in the processor & should be repeatable for all sets that had the update applied. But that doesn't seem to be the case since there are others who apparently haven't noticed any intermittent dimming or changing levels.

Can this only effect specific content & how the processor adapts to it?
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Last edited by ss9001; 05-07-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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post #127 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Noto View Post
I tried to do the same but I could not ... did you put which number? we can try again
Not sure if this helps but I just received my A1E and set it up and I have PKG6.2852.0080NAA installed. So I have an earlier version, not sure how they number their revisions so not sure how much earlier.

I do game so I am concerned about this issue. I won't be connecting my TV to the internet to update firmware until I see this is resolved.
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post #128 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I'm a bit mystified by this issue.

I did the latest FW update that Sony sent over the network & it is the one being referenced.

Other than when I have the color light sensor turned on for "normal" cable TV viewing (lowers brightness in my room), I haven't noticed any dimming or changing brightness. The only time I see the screen dim is when the sensor is on and after the first several minutes of being turned on, the screen gradually dims then it remains stable at least to my eyes.

I watch content from BD, UHD/HDR, cable & DVD. I turn off the sensor for disc-based content so that I get full calibrated brightness. The TV has been ISF calibrated for the usual - Rec 709, enhanced color gamut, SDR & HDR10/Dolby Vision.

I do not game.

If this update caused this, it's embedded in the processor & should be repeatable for all sets that had the update applied. But that doesn't seem to be the case since there are others who apparently haven't noticed any intermittent dimming or changing levels.

Can this only effect specific content & how the processor adapts to it?
Auto-dim is kicking in when it is not supposed to. The common thread seems to be those of us that game in HDR. I have not noticed at all when I watch TV via Directv or when I watch a movie via my UHD player. If you don't game...you may never see it. It seems as though their algorithm for determining when to dim is incorrect. Several users have noticed that if the HUDs are turned off when gaming the issue is nonexistent...so maybe the algorithm recognizes that part of the screen is static and it kicks on the auto-dim feature...when it should be waiting for nearly all of the screen to be static to kick on the feature.

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post #129 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
Auto-dim is kicking in when it is not supposed to. The common thread seems to be those of us that game in HDR.
No.

I get this gaming in normal, non-HDR. And as multiple people have posted, it also occurs during sports broadcasts which are not HDR.

The common thread is that there is some static element on the screen for longer than 1-2 minutes. I have read widely and it is affecting broadcast TV, people using cable, and PC and PS4 gaming.
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post #130 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post
I'm a bit mystified by this issue.

I did the latest FW update that Sony sent over the network & it is the one being referenced.

Other than when I have the color light sensor turned on for "normal" cable TV viewing (lowers brightness in my room), I haven't noticed any dimming or changing brightness. The only time I see the screen dim is when the sensor is on and after the first several minutes of being turned on, the screen gradually dims then it remains stable at least to my eyes.

I watch content from BD, UHD/HDR, cable & DVD. I turn off the sensor for disc-based content so that I get full calibrated brightness. The TV has been ISF calibrated for the usual - Rec 709, enhanced color gamut, SDR & HDR10/Dolby Vision.

I do not game.

If this update caused this, it's embedded in the processor & should be repeatable for all sets that had the update applied. But that doesn't seem to be the case since there are others who apparently haven't noticed any intermittent dimming or changing levels.

Can this only effect specific content & how the processor adapts to it?
It should be repeatable, but there are some possible reasons why it is appearing inconsistently:

1. It only occurs with some specific combination of settings (e.g. a particular picture mode, gamma/luminence level, etc).

2. It is an error in the update which somehow only arose if you had some particular conditions prior to the update.

3. There is a defect in some sets which Sony has identified somehow and selectively targeted (i.e., trying to protect less well-made panels).

To check 1 and 2 you'd have to get the exact settings someone who is affected had before an update, then do the update, then make sure the settings are identical afterwards.
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post #131 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by caitsith01 View Post
It should be repeatable, but there are some possible reasons why it is appearing inconsistently:

1. It only occurs with some specific combination of settings (e.g. a particular picture mode, gamma/luminence level, etc).

2. It is an error in the update which somehow only arose if you had some particular conditions prior to the update.

3. There is a defect in some sets which Sony has identified somehow and selectively targeted (i.e., trying to protect less well-made panels).

To check 1 and 2 you'd have to get the exact settings someone who is affected had before an update, then do the update, then make sure the settings are identical afterwards.
I can confirm that it happens on regular broadcast TV (using the built-in tuner). I'm based in Sydney, Australia and witness it every night during regular broadcasts on channels 90 (The Voice Australia) and 70
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post #132 of 468 Old 05-07-2018, 09:55 PM
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It is relatively easy to reproduce this problem ... watch my Apple TV Screen Saver of the link below and reproduce on your TV the same screen saver available on youtube ...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TZ...q4c1alcjBSR2SC


Note that even with fully moving images there is also darkening.


On youtube starts on 2:54:00



After 1 minute exactly the image starts to darken, and after activating the menu the image lightens again

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post #133 of 468 Old 05-08-2018, 01:34 PM
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I was previously not having any significant issues (with gaming, movies or anything) but since playing god of war I have this during gameplay when the hud is up now for long periods of time - it seems to take half an hour or more before it starts happening for me. If I do a hard cut off of the tv (holding the power button on the remote until the set really turns off) it seems to go away for a good while but then once it starts again it happens too aggressively. Definitely related to static hud elements as it never happens for me in games where the hud isn’t consistently present or its more transparent. I also noticed it on Xbox One when you have the party chat overlay turned on. Glad they are working on a fix.

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post #134 of 468 Old 05-08-2018, 02:04 PM
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I notice the dimming on my AF8 mainly with gaming and sport and it’s very annoying. Loving the TV apart from the dimming.

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post #135 of 468 Old 05-09-2018, 10:01 PM
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Checking with another 65A1E PKG6.2852 that I received yesterday. So far I've not seen anyone other than themadgamer above mention this version. I confirmed I do have dolby vision. So far no dimming, though I'm not sure of a 100% way to reproduce it. I played the apple screensaver above on YT and it was fine. Sitting at the main screen seems like it should kick it on, but that doesn't do it either. No HDR gaming but I did play Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze on the switch for a while, and no problem.

So let's assume this is some magical unicorn version that I have. Dolby vision without the dimming. How do I keep it from updating other than no network. I have updates disabled. I had originally accepted the sony TOS, but now I've set it to decline since this apparently disables updates.
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post #136 of 468 Old 05-11-2018, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahngarth View Post
Checking with another 65A1E PKG6.2852 that I received yesterday. So far I've not seen anyone other than themadgamer above mention this version. I confirmed I do have dolby vision. So far no dimming, though I'm not sure of a 100% way to reproduce it. I played the apple screensaver above on YT and it was fine. Sitting at the main screen seems like it should kick it on, but that doesn't do it either. No HDR gaming but I did play Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze on the switch for a while, and no problem.

So let's assume this is some magical unicorn version that I have. Dolby vision without the dimming. How do I keep it from updating other than no network. I have updates disabled. I had originally accepted the sony TOS, but now I've set it to decline since this apparently disables updates.
I believe this happens more constantly with Peak Luminance set to High. What are your settings?

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post #137 of 468 Old 05-14-2018, 06:01 AM
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I believe this happens more constantly with Peak Luminance set to High. What are your settings?
I do have Peak Luminance set to high, brightness almost all the way up.
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post #138 of 468 Old 05-14-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tahngarth View Post
Checking with another 65A1E PKG6.2852 that I received yesterday. So far I've not seen anyone other than themadgamer above mention this version. I confirmed I do have dolby vision. So far no dimming, though I'm not sure of a 100% way to reproduce it. I played the apple screensaver above on YT and it was fine. Sitting at the main screen seems like it should kick it on, but that doesn't do it either. No HDR gaming but I did play Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze on the switch for a while, and no problem.

So let's assume this is some magical unicorn version that I have. Dolby vision without the dimming. How do I keep it from updating other than no network. I have updates disabled. I had originally accepted the sony TOS, but now I've set it to decline since this apparently disables updates.
It looks like firmware PKG6.2818.0075NAA was the one that added DV so we both have later than that, but not the most recent. I've been watching ATV content but I haven't connected my PS4 yet. Will do that over the weekend and test games in HDR.
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post #139 of 468 Old 05-14-2018, 10:57 PM
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Again, this problem is definitely not limited to HDR/DV content and can affect any content where there is any area of the screen which remains static (or even, it seems, near static).
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post #140 of 468 Old 05-15-2018, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by caitsith01 View Post
Again, this problem is definitely not limited to HDR/DV content and can affect any content where there is any area of the screen which remains static (or even, it seems, near static).
So this would not happen watching a movie because the screen is always filled with movement ?

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post #141 of 468 Old 05-15-2018, 11:41 AM
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Question. does turning off the Pixel refresh thing under advance settings fix the problem? I dont remember this option when I first got the tv but it says to keep it on so you dont get image retention. wondering if turning this off will keep the screen from going dark. has anyone tried this?
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post #142 of 468 Old 05-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
I experience the dimming when gaming in 4k HDR. My Xbox One X is routed through a Denon 6300H to HDMI 3 on the A1E. When I get a chance, I will remove the AVR from the chain and see if that makes any difference (I suspect it will not as this did not occur until one of the last two A1E firmware updates). I have attached pictures of my settings and software build.
Yeah witcher was super dark on my E6. havent tried it yet on the a1e. Have you played with the new hdr update on witcher? going to check that out tonight.

You should raise your contrast all the way up. drop the gamma to 0. and raise the black level to 53 (mess around with it). raising the gamma over 0 really highlights things way too much in games and crushes blacks. Messing with the black level ups the brightness a little bit without doing this.
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post #143 of 468 Old 05-15-2018, 04:26 PM
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So this would not happen watching a movie because the screen is always filled with movement ?
Correct...I have not seen it while watching a movie. I did pause "Coco" to see if it kicked in (as it should) and it did. Again...the issue seems to be that the algorithm for the auto-dim does not correctly determine when the entire image is static.
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post #144 of 468 Old 05-15-2018, 09:47 PM
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So this would not happen watching a movie because the screen is always filled with movement ?
Correct, movies and TV shows are fine.

Whereas sport and some games are definitely not fine, even though (I would estimate) less than 5% of the screen is static.

To summarise what I can work out from the different reports from different users:

1. Potentially affects all content and resolutions (SD or HD broadcast TV, cable, console, HTPC etc).

2. Not limited to HDR content.

3. More noticeable (or perhaps limited to?) when luminance is set to 'high'.

4. Triggered by any part of the screen remaining static for approximately 1 minute. Also possibly triggered in situations where the whole screen is moving very slowly (as per the Apple screensaver example earlier in the thread).

5. Not limited to external sources and affects internal/broadcast sources also.

6. AFAIK all users affected applied the Feb/March firmware update(s) and no users had problems before this.
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post #145 of 468 Old 05-16-2018, 04:16 AM
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My own viewing plans for a new Oled in my dark, dedicated theater room that has no windows are movie and series viewing from dvds,Blu Ray and Netflix streaming so I have no fear about this issue or burn in. The Sony 8FN picture quality and its form factor keeping it low on the stand has won me over. Hopefully there will be a fix for this dimming soon if it starts to affect sales and causes product returns.

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post #146 of 468 Old 05-16-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSonyExperience View Post
Sorry for the late responses everyone. Here's a little update for you. During my conference call last week, I brought up the issue to the teams above me that can pass this issue along to our engineers. They are aware and are working on a fix. But no ETA at this time. Thank you for the support. Here's an email of our conversation for those that just believe I'm just some random guy.

Sony Dolby Vision Update Dimming Issue Update
It's been a couple of weeks since your post - have you made any progress?
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post #147 of 468 Old 05-18-2018, 06:50 AM
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I made a video with the dimming issue. Hope this helps to explain it to the people over at Sony.

I've included markers (in the description) so it's easy to see the difference.

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post #148 of 468 Old 05-19-2018, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DrummerBoss View Post
I made a video with the dimming issue. Hope this helps to explain it to the people over at Sony.

I've included markers (in the description) so it's easy to see the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ZYwK38PCM
Much appreciated. However, the more damning evidence is when it dims while the game is being played.

I don't mind the screen dimming when the game is just sitting there (that is when auto-dim should kick in).

The issue is that auto-dim kicks in while actively gaming. If you could get video of that...that is the evidence we need. How are you capturing the video?
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post #149 of 468 Old 05-19-2018, 07:19 AM
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Much appreciated. However, the more damning evidence is when it dims while the game is being played.

I don't mind the screen dimming when the game is just sitting there (that is when auto-dim should kick in).

The issue is that auto-dim kicks in while actively gaming. If you could get video of that...that is the evidence we need. How are you capturing the video?
Yeah i know what you mean. The screen is not really static though (there's enough movement in it). I'll make another one during gameplay just to be sure.

I'm capturing using a Canon G7X camera, with autofocus/auto white balance/etc off so the camera won't compensate.

Will record a new video soon and post it.
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post #150 of 468 Old 05-20-2018, 10:17 AM
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Since the DV update I have only witnessed this dimming effect on ‘mostly’ static images such as, menu screens with minimal movement. The worst culprit for me is Gears of War 4 while in the title/menu screens and HDR. If it has happened during gameplay or live content I haven’t noticed as of yet. Annoying yes, but at the same time not a game breaker unless I do in fact start to see it during gameplay and live action. Fingers crossed that Sony is actually working on the issue and a fix is on the way, though I wouldn't be surprised if they were to turn a blind eye. After sales service is not a strength of these larger consumer electronics giants, imho.

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