Sony A1E Dimming Defect - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 467 Old 06-07-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post
I just want to play devils advocate and ask......Could it only be certain settings that triggers the dimming effect on the Sony sets? There are some respected members on the Sony OLED owners threads that say they do not see it or at least does not effect their viewing much on SDR.
It seems too inconsistent for that. The fact that some people seem to be completely unable to replicate it suggests it's a full blown bug and not just a specific set of settings.


My set is more or less set up exactly like the rtings.com settings here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/so...-oled/settings and I get this problem. I imagine quite a few people use those or similar settings.


Logically if you had everything set to low luminance/contrast you wouldn't notice this issue.
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post #242 of 467 Old 06-08-2018, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post
I just want to play devils advocate and ask......Could it only be certain settings that triggers the dimming effect on the Sony sets? There are some respected members on the Sony OLED owners threads that say they do not see it or at least does not effect their viewing much on SDR.

The only way to stop it is to set peak luminance to Off or Low, medium and high will force aggressive ABL. I believe that when ABL kicks in it it effectively forces luminance low.

Low is fine if your viewing in a pitch black room but in a room with light it looks dim and lacks impact. The only time it annoys me is when watching Football (Soccer to you guys ) and I watch a lot.

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post #243 of 467 Old 06-08-2018, 05:09 AM
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Sony just needs to fix the software in the next firmware release, there's no hardware issue here let's be clear about that, so their future OLED tv's have no relationship to this dimming issue. And yes they should allow firmware rollbacks, while they take their time trying to fix the software for a future firmware release, that's how it is done in the software industry as the other poster said.

I really hope that we will not have to watch the football world cup 'with sunglasses on'......
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post #244 of 467 Old 06-08-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jasjw View Post
The only way to stop it is to set peak luminance to Off or Low, medium and high will force aggressive ABL. I believe that when ABL kicks in it it effectively forces luminance low.

Low is fine if your viewing in a pitch black room but in a room with light it looks dim and lacks impact. The only time it annoys me is when watching Football (Soccer to you guys ) and I watch a lot.
Try not to rub it in too much when you watch the World Cup in HLG on BBC iPlayer, we get a good ole 720p broadcast in the states, games on broadcast in MPEG-2. I'm looking into a VPN to test it out though.
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post #245 of 467 Old 06-10-2018, 11:23 PM
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Is it possible to reset to factory defaults and disable automatic firmware updates? It's the updated firmware causing dimming, right?
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post #246 of 467 Old 06-11-2018, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
Is it possible to reset to factory defaults and disable automatic firmware updates? It's the updated firmware causing dimming, right?
The long awaited PKG6.2858.0082 DV inclusive update is the cause of the dimming issue although DV has no bearing on the actual problem. Subsquent FW v6.5603 was released with a view of a resolution but the issue remains.

A factory reset will return you to currently what firmware you are on now. To disable automatic firmware updates go to
Home>Scroll right down to ? Help>System software update>Slide the Automatic software button to off.

There are a number of postings that might be of interest on the Sony Community UK Forum.https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/andr...e/td-p/2451101

Last edited by AlanPot; 06-11-2018 at 05:40 AM. Reason: incorrect link
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post #247 of 467 Old 06-11-2018, 04:57 PM
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Sounds almost like those poor souls who bought all those VW Diesels. Great mileage, and great power, and then they turned the emission controls on................


what ever happened to all those cars?
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post #248 of 467 Old 06-11-2018, 05:26 PM
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Anybody want to swap their A1E for a B7 purchased last month, if you are in Texas?
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post #249 of 467 Old 06-11-2018, 06:45 PM
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Sounds almost like those poor souls who bought all those VW Diesels. Great mileage, and great power, and then they turned the emission controls on................


what ever happened to all those cars?
VW bought them back if the owner wished to sell. There is a good Netflix documentary on this, in 4K by the way. it is called Dirty Money. Look at S1E1. The cars bought by VW are sitting in a lot waiting for a retro fit which may never come.
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post #250 of 467 Old 06-12-2018, 08:18 AM
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VW bought them back if the owner wished to sell. There is a good Netflix documentary on this, in 4K by the way. it is called Dirty Money. Look at S1E1. The cars bought by VW are sitting in a lot waiting for a retro fit which may never come.
Or they paid them a certain amount depending on the model and year. One of my co-workers got around $7,000 for her Golf, and got to keep it.
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post #251 of 467 Old 06-13-2018, 08:31 PM
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I fired my my PS4 for the first time in ages last night and tried The Last of Us Remastered, which runs in HDR. Weirdly enough, this game does not seem to trigger dimming for me, even though I get it with non-HDR sport and game content.


This reinforces to me that this feature is definitely not working as intended.


Meanwhile... no news from Sony?
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post #252 of 467 Old 06-14-2018, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by caitsith01 View Post
I fired my my PS4 for the first time in ages last night and tried The Last of Us Remastered, which runs in HDR. Weirdly enough, this game does not seem to trigger dimming for me, even though I get it with non-HDR sport and game content.


This reinforces to me that this feature is definitely not working as intended.


Meanwhile... no news from Sony?
The last of us HUD is so minimal that it does not trigger the dimming i feel.
The HUD is also not always showing in the last of us.

This would be the same reason that when you turn off the HUD in God of War, the dimming issue is not there either, but when the HUD is on the dimming is constantly activating every minute.
It is also interesting that i found no dimming in God of War in the early hours, it seems that the HUD becoming more filled with features (longer health and Rage bars, Atreus abillities, res stone) suddenly makes it jump to dimming territory along the way.


I feel like HUDs with a certain transparancy also trigger this dimming much less if at all.

As for news from Sony, I have the feeling that all we can do is wait for future firmware and hope the next one fixes this problem.
If it does not, wait again for the next firmware.
It is a very uncomfortable position we find ourselves in, completely at the mercy of the Sony engineers, hoping our issue is the next one they tackle.
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post #253 of 467 Old 06-14-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Emersion View Post
The last of us HUD is so minimal that it does not trigger the dimming i feel.
The HUD is also not always showing in the last of us.

This would be the same reason that when you turn off the HUD in God of War, the dimming issue is not there either, but when the HUD is on the dimming is constantly activating every minute.
It is also interesting that i found no dimming in God of War in the early hours, it seems that the HUD becoming more filled with features (longer health and Rage bars, Atreus abillities, res stone) suddenly makes it jump to dimming territory along the way.


I feel like HUDs with a certain transparancy also trigger this dimming much less if at all.

As for news from Sony, I have the feeling that all we can do is wait for future firmware and hope the next one fixes this problem.
If it does not, wait again for the next firmware.
It is a very uncomfortable position we find ourselves in, completely at the mercy of the Sony engineers, hoping our issue is the next one they tackle.
Yep, you're probably right actually. The HUD comes and goes a lot in TLOU.


I do wonder about Sony's engineers. Do they take any pride in their work? Are they aware of how this is impacting on people, and do they care?


A competent programmer with good knowledge of the system should easily be able to fix a problem like this in under a day. I say this from personal experience debugging complex image processing software.
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post #254 of 467 Old 06-14-2018, 07:42 PM
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So i've been in touch with Caleb Denison at Digital Trends and this is the latest info he has gotten:

"Sony's official response: "Sony engineering is investigating the issue and we are looking into improving the dimming performance of the A1E OLED TV.” I think their engineers are cranking hard on this and a fix for affected units should be forthcoming."

I definitely feel like the more sources we can get reporting on this, the faster a response from Sony will be issued. I can guarantee that Sony wants to do everything in their power from having this become a huge media firestorm. Brand credibility and consumer relations would take a massive hit if the major publications started reporting on this, especially since it was Sony themselves that caused this issue, and they did so without a word of warning to it's unsuspecting customers.

That said, I encourage everyone to contact the major players in the hobby. Caleb, Vincent Teoh, John Archer, Steve Withers, etc.
The more of them we can get questioning Sony on this, the better. The last thing Sony wants is to have just one of these guys reporting on this, as their reach is far and wide, with many followers. The more pressure they put on Sony, the faster this will all be resolved.
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post #255 of 467 Old 06-15-2018, 04:20 AM
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Yep, you're probably right actually. The HUD comes and goes a lot in TLOU.


I do wonder about Sony's engineers. Do they take any pride in their work? Are they aware of how this is impacting on people, and do they care?


A competent programmer with good knowledge of the system should easily be able to fix a problem like this in under a day. I say this from personal experience debugging complex image processing software.
I work in Machine Learning and Computer Vision engineering, and I slightly disagree here.

The easiest "fix" here would be to roll the dimming algorithm change back to its pre-Dolby Vision firmware update state (given that the addition of the Dolby Vision feature and the dimming algorithm modification are unrelated and are purely coincidental). This would have been a no-brainer. Still, there must be a better way, considering that there must have been a purpose to the introduction of the updated dimming algorithm.

Improving the current implementation is a wholly different matter, and the speed with which this could be done depends on implementation details. For example, if simple frame-to-frame (historical) pixel comparison is involved, then the fix would presumably be an easy one. On the other hand, if a machine learning algorithm is involved, then adjusting that algorithm (in terms of weights) as to properly alter its behavior could take a considerable amount of time (and trial and error, as to not underfit or overfit the underlying network).

While I am sure that the changes to the dimming algorithm were introduced with the best of intentions (to extend the lifespans of our sets), it is clear that these changes required more testing and QA on Sony's part, especially given the fact that they ironically affect the playability of a major first-party Sony title (God of War).
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Last edited by Pavel_Pr; 06-15-2018 at 05:36 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
To all who are reading this thread and don't have an A1E or have one and do not experience this issue:

This is not a feature of the set. This issue was not present prior to the DV firmware update. The dimming does not kick in just on static images. I play Witcher 3 (Xbox One X, HDR) for a few hours each night and it occurs over and over again while the game is actively being played.

did u have solved your issue ?

i have the same Problem . Last Firmware not solving this .
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post #257 of 467 Old 06-15-2018, 01:56 PM
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did u have solved your issue ?

i have the same Problem . Last Firmware not solving this .

No fix as of yet.
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post #258 of 467 Old 06-15-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoi100 View Post
Surely they must offer a way for people to roll back the firmware... it's only software like previous poster said... it's terrible the dimming, makes watching football / soccer difficult (e.g. watching Chelsea vs SHFC yesterday via BT Sport wireless streaming from mobile phone or connected via computer via HDMI), like someone has turned the floodlights off the pitch. Having to keep pressing the Discover button on then off on the Sony remote control to get the brightness back for a minute or so.

I have noticed that watching football / soccer via the inbuilt over the air terrestrial digital tv tuner does not dim - probably because the picture quality is too poor.

I'm sure this software update will also affect the new OLED A1F? screen that Sony is about to release to the shops, so will be interesting to see if the dimming issue is picked up the in forthcoming reviews.....
watch football impossible..... , for me too
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post #259 of 467 Old 06-15-2018, 03:07 PM
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Try watching football in HDR, after a min it’s like watching it on peak luminance off brightness 30. If this is what’s to come I may have to consider my options.

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post #260 of 467 Old 06-15-2018, 03:26 PM
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has anyone contacted sony over this issue ,mine does it with god of war 4 , sony af8

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post #261 of 467 Old 06-16-2018, 07:33 AM
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Thank you for contacting Sony support.
In regards to your enquiry regarding your Sony A1, we are sorry to learn that the TV is dimming.
We would like to highlight that the brightness changing is to protect the screen from image burning, therefore, it is considered within the specifications.
You may preform the below:
https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/s...icles/00173465
For registration purposes, please reply with the 7 digits serial number and the full model number:
https://www.sony.co.uk/find-the-model
Should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

I just got the generic it's within specifications when I emailed them. As an EU citizen is there something we could use to get a refund. This TV isn't the one I purchased and for £2000+ this isn't what I expect with after care.
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post #262 of 467 Old 06-16-2018, 01:14 PM
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my dimming only seems to happen on HDR video games ,not HDR movies or sdr

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post #263 of 467 Old 06-16-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
has anyone contacted sony over this issue ,mine does it with god of war 4 , sony af8
Does a factory reset back to original firmware fix it?
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post #264 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 05:25 AM
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Does a factory reset back to original firmware fix it?
A factory reset will not resolve the issue because the set is returned with the Firmware that you are presently on.

Numerous owners with the same issue have contacted Sony who are in denial. The generic reply is that this"phenomenon" as they call it, is within specification and is normal.

If Sony insist that this "phenomenon" is permanent, I am sure that there will be many owners who will be looking for returns or refunds.
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post #265 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 05:42 AM
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I did some testing ,mine does not dim on a very bright scene ,despicable me 2 in dolby vision ,I paused the movie and timed it for 4 min no screen brightness change ,but mine will do it with HDR video games ,also never seen it do it with sdr .my tv is the af8 with the newest firmware

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post #266 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipTheJacker View Post
Thank you for contacting Sony support.
In regards to your enquiry regarding your Sony A1, we are sorry to learn that the TV is dimming.
We would like to highlight that the brightness changing is to protect the screen from image burning, therefore, it is considered within the specifications.
You may preform the below:
https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/s...icles/00173465
For registration purposes, please reply with the 7 digits serial number and the full model number:
https://www.sony.co.uk/find-the-model
Should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

I just got the generic it's within specifications when I emailed them. As an EU citizen is there something we could use to get a refund. This TV isn't the one I purchased and for £2000+ this isn't what I expect with after care.
Under EU rules, a [I]a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised.[I]

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...s/index_en.htm

Sony have trashed their own set and if there is no resolution post haste we as consumers should be exercising our rights. The A1E was almost perfect pre PKG6.2858 FW, it is now fundamentally flawed.
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post #267 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
has anyone contacted sony over this issue ,mine does it with god of war 4 , sony af8
Have you actually read through the thread?
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post #268 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel_Pr View Post
I work in Machine Learning and Computer Vision engineering, and I slightly disagree here.

The easiest "fix" here would be to roll the dimming algorithm change back to its pre-Dolby Vision firmware update state (given that the addition of the Dolby Vision feature and the dimming algorithm modification are unrelated and are purely coincidental). This would have been a no-brainer. Still, there must be a better way, considering that there must have been a purpose to the introduction of the updated dimming algorithm.

Improving the current implementation is a wholly different matter, and the speed with which this could be done depends on implementation details. For example, if simple frame-to-frame (historical) pixel comparison is involved, then the fix would presumably be an easy one. On the other hand, if a machine learning algorithm is involved, then adjusting that algorithm (in terms of weights) as to properly alter its behavior could take a considerable amount of time (and trial and error, as to not underfit or overfit the underlying network).

While I am sure that the changes to the dimming algorithm were introduced with the best of intentions (to extend the lifespans of our sets), it is clear that these changes required more testing and QA on Sony's part, especially given the fact that they ironically affect the playability of a major first-party Sony title (God of War).
I actually have a computer vision background too, though probably not as up to date as yours. I'd be amazed if Sony's software people were competent enough to be using machine learning here, plus I doubt they'd use anything taxing on the very modest computational hardware available in this set.



My suspicion is that it is a continually updated rolling average over time which identifies some preset mix of pixels of a certain brightness not changing and, when it reaches a particular threshold, kicks on the dimming. In any event, it wouldn't be that hard to code in something that says, basically, if more than 25% of the screen is changing frame by frame (or whatever) then don't dim.
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post #269 of 467 Old 06-17-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
If you have Witcher 3, the unwarranted dimming is easily reproduced...happens every time I play a game of gwent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoss View Post
Yes i have that one, will try that out!

I'm still not 100% sure if that God Of War footage i recorded is due to the TV defect or intended. Sometimes it seems really excessive, not something that has been programmed to be like that. I will look into more games i can record, starting with a round of gwent in the Witcher 3 then.

I've also read on the Sony support forum that the user that made the other God Of War video had a call with Sony last week and they are going to fix the problem. Fingers crossed! Here's the thread: https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/andr...2451101/page/5
Nickff and DrummerBoss,

Do you mind sharing your HDMI port settings for you PS4 Pro?

I have my PS4 Pro on HDMI 2 set to Gaming and trying to get HDR activated for games. I haven't changed anything besides Gaming yet. Just wondering what you might have changed. i did dabble with HRD10 and it looked horrible.

Thanks!
TMG
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post #270 of 467 Old 06-18-2018, 09:12 PM
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I have a solution for those that don’t mind voiding their warranty.

Since Sony doesn’t allow you to downgrade the firmware why not replace the main board?

It should be relatively straight forward to do since the main board is located in the “kickstand”

Part #:
A-2181-897-A

Edit:
Correct part number.

Last edited by Jspecht05; 06-19-2018 at 10:39 AM.
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