LG C8P versus Samsung Q9FN - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
Parts of this review seem odd

such as this statement

"and in fact the TCL was the best HDR performer among the LCDs in a dark room."


At its price point..if that is true...makes the TCL the TV buy of the decade
Warren
I believe they did not have the Samsung Q9FN:

"Comparison models
LG OLED65E7P 65-inch OLED TV
Samsung QN65Q8FN 65-inch LCD TV
Sony XBR-65A1E 65-inch OLED TV
Sony XBR-65X900F 65-inch LCD TV
TCL 65R617 65-inch LCD TV"

and the Samsung Q8 they had suffered from a 'bug' that Samsung will be fixing (from section on Color Accuracy):

"(The exception, for now, was the Samsung Q8, which according to the company had a bug related to color. Samsung is issuing a software fix.)"

So Q9FN not in the running yet, Q8 hampered by a 'color bug', and TCL 65R617 ouperformed Sony 65X900F (which is a surprise in and of itself).

And you are right, CNET has awarded the TCL 6-Series the 'Best TV for the Money' in 2018 (taking that crown from the Vizio M-Series which has held it in 2016 and 2017): https://www.cnet.com/products/tcl-55...ku-tv/preview/

The $1000 65" Premium TV Ceiling has just been broken and that is probably a bigger threat to LG WOLED's continued market share gains in the Premium TV segment than is Samsung's QLED/LCD lineup..
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post #482 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 02:14 PM
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^^^that might be a blessing in disguise because it will drive prices down.
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post #483 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 02:40 PM
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I'm not so sure. The cheaper you get, the shizzier the quality. Uniformity will continue to be neglected.
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post #484 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 02:42 PM
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I don't think so, I mean look at the prices this year compared to last...I think it's a good trend. In regards to uniformity this year is admittedly looking better.
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post #485 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 02:56 PM
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Hope yer right. I'm a natural-born pissimist (sic).
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post #486 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Hope yer right. I'm a natural-born pissimist (sic).
I'm with you right now based on this C8 I have that I am going to be replacing unless the replacement is worse. I sure hope this one I have right now is a rare '18 dud when it comes to uniformity.
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post #487 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 04:05 PM
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^Ah man I didnt know about yours
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post #488 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 04:25 PM
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theres a video on youtube of the c8 and 9fn side by side. the 9 looked better. the motion was better and the picture looked better to me. I have a c7 and a ks9800.
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post #489 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dreadnok89 View Post
theres a video on youtube of the c8 and 9fn side by side. the 9 looked better. the motion was better and the picture looked better to me. I have a c7 and a ks9800.
Because watching youtube videos is the definitive way to judge TVs...
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post #490 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Because watching youtube videos is the definitive way to judge TVs...
This. My friend bought a C8 as well as a Q9FN last week from Magnolia, he said the C8 is the keeper the Samsung is going back. Can’t wait to get mine later this year.

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post #491 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The $1000 65" Premium TV Ceiling has just been broken and that is probably a bigger threat to LG WOLED's continued market share gains in the Premium TV segment than is Samsung's QLED/LCD lineup..
The optimistic upside is that the tiny reductions still plausible in LCDs of this ilk are a small fraction of the major ones OLED can still achieve. It will take 4 years or so, but OLED can get down there for 65-inch sets.
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There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #492 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
I'm with you right now based on this C8 I have that I am going to be replacing unless the replacement is worse. I sure hope this one I have right now is a rare '18 dud when it comes to uniformity.
That sux big near black booty. The race to the bottom never stops. As much as it pains me to say it, I like Rogo's licensing idea, even if it includes sharing with Samdung. It would mean more resources (intellectual and monetary) being devoted to solving these problems.
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post #493 of 1171 Old 05-02-2018, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth View Post
This. My friend bought a C8 as well as a Q9FN last week from Magnolia, he said the C8 is the keeper the Samsung is going back. Can’t wait to get mine later this year.
...and I have a friend who said the opposite. Go figure.
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post #494 of 1171 Old 05-03-2018, 04:37 AM
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https://www.avforums.com/review/sams...n-review.14868

Avforums review of the Q9FN. Looks like the unit they tested was a gem based on the OOTB accuracy and the uniformity. Weird they say the on/off is 250k:1 since it should have been inf:1 as seen by hdtvpolska's review. Maybe a meter issue.

All in all, a glowing review which is to be expected based on all the other glowing reviews.
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post #495 of 1171 Old 05-03-2018, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
That sux big near black booty. The race to the bottom never stops. As much as it pains me to say it, I like Rogo's licensing idea, even if it includes sharing with Samdung. It would mean more resources (intellectual and monetary) being devoted to solving these problems.
And to think there was a time that the Chinese didnt make LCD panels....
Its bound to be come that way like everything else does....I am waiting for the Chinese OLED panels and then things will really be in for a price adjustment

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...and I have a friend who said the opposite. Go figure.
LOL....you say "pecan......"
I was thinking the same thing.
First off I guess I dont see those two TV's being cross shopped much
Maybe a person that buys one of each for different viewing areas.. maybe

They just seem very different panels for different installations and preferences

Warren

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post #496 of 1171 Old 05-03-2018, 08:04 AM
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And to think there was a time that the Chinese didnt make LCD panels....
Its bound to be come that way like everything else does....I am waiting for the Chinese OLED panels and then things will really be in for a price adjustment



LOL....you say "pecan......"
I was thinking the same thing.
First off I guess I dont see those two TV's being cross shopped much
Maybe a person that buys one of each for different viewing areas.. maybe

They just seem very different panels for different installations and preferences

Warren
Completely agree. I think whichever one is better is completely up to usage, background experience, and preferences. Two great TVs.
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post #497 of 1171 Old 05-03-2018, 09:28 PM
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I put together a sort of wish list, in order of 1 being most important on down. I'm not an expert in any of this, but for my situation I need a big TV for viewing distance, can't be 10 thousand dollars, needs to deal with a bright living room with partial window glare, I play a lot of games, etc. etc.

Anyone disagree with any of this?


(importance) (want) (winner)
1 >70" n/a
2 Brightness/Antiglare Q9FN
3 Latency Q9FN
4 Color range/accuracy Q9FN
5 Black level/accuracy C8/OLED
6 Price Q9FN
7 Gaming features Q9FN
8 Viewing angle C8/OLED
9 Color uniformity (DSE) C8/OLED
10 Light bleed/banding ??
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post #498 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by sanskrit11 View Post
I put together a sort of wish list, in order of 1 being most important on down. I'm not an expert in any of this, but for my situation I need a big TV for viewing distance, can't be 10 thousand dollars, needs to deal with a bright living room with partial window glare, I play a lot of games, etc. etc.

Anyone disagree with any of this?


(importance) (want) (winner)
1 >70" n/a
2 Brightness/Antiglare Q9FN
3 Latency Q9FN
4 Color range/accuracy Q9FN
5 Black level/accuracy C8/OLED
6 Price Q9FN
7 Gaming features Q9FN
8 Viewing angle C8/OLED
9 Color uniformity (DSE) C8/OLED
10 Light bleed/banding ??
I think you have the wrong winner in price.

In fact, I'd be likely to buy the Samsung if it could beat the LG on price in November.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #499 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 03:18 AM
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sanskrit11, I would give a look to the OLED uniformity thread here. In the past couple of weeks several examples of vertical banding in real content have been posted. And they've actually given me pause.

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post #500 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 03:28 AM
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LOL at AVForums.com (unit sent by Samsung) Q9FN's precalibration results compared to Rtings.com (unit bought by them).

At least AVForums has the grace to state "This is a reference performance in terms of greyscale and, if it's representative of actual retail units, owners can expect a superb level of accuracy right out of the box."
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post #501 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 06:53 AM
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You can't go wrong with either of these sets, if your goal is the best at home image quality available today.

Like most things, the choice comes down to the individual's use and needs.

If you are a video content watcher, OLED is as good as it gets. TV, 4k movies, etc. will all provide you with frequent jaw dropping moments.

If you are the obsessive type, these great experiences can be diminished, or ruined, if you are constantly worried about ir/burn-in from station logos, black bars, etc.

Gamers will fine bliss in the Q9. Leave those games on for as long as you want, without worry. Same for CNN. No ir/burn-in worries at all.

In truth, the pq differences between these sets are mostly visible when viewing the competing sets side-by-side, with the same content. Both will do an excellent job with a decent source, but your eye will prefer one image over the other.

If they look the same, price becomes a deciding factor.

I personally have an LED and an OLED set. I strongly prefer the OLED for HD TV viewing and movies. I use the LED for a computer monitor and regular family room TV/movies. My LED is an 80" while my OLED is only 55", so size does make up for quality in a larger viewing room.

Personally, I would not go OLED if I was a gamer, or used the set for computer use. LG seems to be making incremental improvements in their panel designs, but when they won't back up their sets against burn-in with warranty coverage, believe what they are telling you - the potential is there and it is real.
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post #502 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 07:37 AM
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Personally, I would not go OLED if I was a gamer, or used the set for computer use. LG seems to be making incremental improvements in their panel designs, but when they won't back up their sets against burn-in with warranty coverage, believe what they are telling you - the potential is there and it is real.
That was my initial view that had me leaning towards the Z9D over the C7 last year. I then saw that pretty much everyone who had got some burn in from gaming had their oled light setting really high and knew I'd be running mine low so I said F it and decided to go oled and eventually got the c8. It also seems like they got it from playing one of I think 3 games which I don't play and they had hundreds of hours in a short period of time which is something I don't do. Plus, I used to have a plasma and gamed a lot on it and never got burn in.

The Q9FN costs 1k more (right now it's $1200 since the c8 is on sale) here in Canada than the C8 so it was an easy decision but had they been the same price or the Q9FN been a bit cheaper then I may have compromised in getting the top pq, at least with sdr content, and gone for it just for the peace of mind as I was pretty lazy when it came to leaving static images up on my previous LCD and would often get sidetracked doing something else around the house.

As it is, I will take some precautions when gaming with hiding huds if given the option and won't do super long gaming sessions of the same game. My pc use is also mainly just to game or to watch some videos since I mainly use my laptop for other stuff like browsing. With respect to hiding HUDs, I started to hide some that I could in the week or two before I got the c8 to see what it is like and I really like the look since it is more immersive. I do wish all these games had the option to auto hide it/quickly pull it up with a press of a button like in Horizon Zero Dawn since outright hiding it where you have to go into the settings menu to enable it is not ideal.

My view though is even if I do eventually get some burn in then hey, **** happens. At the end of the day it's not like some burn in would ruin my life and I'm fortunate enough to be in position with my financial standing where a $4.2k tv isn't that big a deal.
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post #503 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 08:05 AM
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I game a ton on my OLED B7 and have for the past year. No burn-in. But as you say @rlindo , most everyone with BI had their OLED light cranked. Mine is set to disable ABL, so it's low, and I only play at night.

Bigger draw of the Q9FN for gaming is a) FreeSync2 and b) the input latency with FS2 is reportedly ~8ms total. That's gaming monitor numbers, if that's the whole pipeline.

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post #504 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 08:12 AM
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Rtings burn in test is showing no burn in from the gaming sets

Lg 65 C7
Lg 9800 1080 Oled
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post #505 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
"This is a reference performance in terms of greyscale and, if it's representative of actual retail units, owners can expect a superb level of accuracy right out of the box."
Yea there was a bit of scandal a few years back where some companies where cherry picking and sending reviewers there best testing/performing products for review. It came to light when some organizations started comparing review sample test results to retail bought sample test results and there was some big discrepancies.

So I do weight retail purchased test results higher than review sample test results until I see a large enough sampling of the review units from many reviewers in different countries. It's also nice when they put the serial # of the review sample in the review so you can see how many different review samples are making the rounds.
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post #506 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I think you have the wrong winner in price.

In fact, I'd be likely to buy the Samsung if it could beat the LG on price in November.
The Q9FN 75" is $6k, the 77" C8 is $9k.

????
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post #507 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskrit11 View Post
The Q9FN 75" is $6k, the 77" C8 is $9k.

????
Rogo said 'in November'

77C8P will dip under $5K by then, doubtful the Q9FN will be able to follow (Samsung dipped their price just after launch to vacuum up as many early-adopters as possible before LG gets serious about moving inventory)...

It's a near-certainty that the 77C8 will dip under 75Q9FN pricing come November.
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post #508 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 10:25 AM
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Rogo said 'in November'

77C8P will dip under $5K by then, doubtful the Q9FN will be able to follow (Samsung dipped their price just after launch to vacuum up as many early-adopters as possible before LG gets serious about moving inventory)...

It's a near-certainty that the 77C8 will dip under 75Q9FN pricing come November.
Ok. But I'm not buying a TV in November. That list is now. So I don't understand how I have the wrong winner in price.
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post #509 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 10:28 AM
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Ok. But I'm not buying a TV in November. That list is now. So I don't understand how I have the wrong winner in price.
Size goes to oled

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post #510 of 1171 Old 05-04-2018, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I think you have the wrong winner in price.

In fact, I'd be likely to buy the Samsung if it could beat the LG on price in November.
Why, burn-in fears? I'm surprised you're succumbing given the experience with plasmas.
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