Reflections on LG OLED! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Reflections on LG OLED!

Hi Everyone

Our new LG OLED TV was delivered today... I was filled with excitement and now am feeling a little dismayed. No doubt it is a beautiful television, but our living room is very bright with lots of ambient light, and the TV is reflecting absolutely everything to the side and behind me!! In any even remotely dark scene find the reflections to be incredibly distracting. We Have just upgraded from an old Samsung TV with a matte screen, so it is obviously an even bigger challenge for me to get used to this. NOTE- there is really no where else we can put the TV- Our apartment layout difficult - also, we do have shades on the windows but they filter the light but don't block it - Black out shades are hideous looking and are not an option. We had also been considering the Sony X930, and am now wondering if we should switch them out or will I have the same issues with the Sony?? Or is there some high-end TV should be considering that will not give reflections like this. I think I have 14 days to switch -unless we are just going to watch TV at night and never ever in the daytime. Any advice suggestions would be very much appreciated! I am attaching two photos one with the television turned off and one with a dark scene...Everything in our living room behind me can be seen including our fern tree, lamps, artwork windows etc.
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post #2 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 01:18 PM
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Good window coverings? I don't know what else you can do other than looking to switch around your room layout.

This new Samsung Q8F and Q9FN are supposed to be good at reflections I guess they could be an option to try out if you can't/don't want to use some nice window coverings.
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post #3 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 01:28 PM
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The "picture on glass" models (E, G) do reflect more light than the B and C models. I have a C and unless there is a light source directly hitting the screen, I have no noticeable reflections.

See if you like the picture with no direct light hitting the screen, no windows even at 90 degrees to the screen, then move things accordingly. By doing so you will be able to bring out full capability of the set, which may make it worth the work.
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post #4 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 01:50 PM
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Among other things, rtings.com tests reflections. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict...tte-and-glossy

The ones that they rate highest all have glossy screens, and the LG OLEDs are near the top for those. Their reviews of the C7 and E7 say that they work well in bright rooms, but I believe that rtings turns up the brightness to overwhelm the reflections. Maybe you could do the same.
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post #5 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 02:09 PM
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I would go to Best Buy and check out different TV's regarding reflections. See if some other TV might suit your needs better. Brighter and/or less reflective.
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post #6 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Among other things, rtings.com tests reflections. https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict...tte-and-glossy

The ones that they rate highest all have glossy screens, and the LG OLEDs are near the top for those. Their reviews of the C7 and E7 say that they work well in bright rooms, but I believe that rtings turns up the brightness to overwhelm the reflections. Maybe you could do the same.
I did actually see that test reflection article before I bought, and it definitely influenced my decision to go with the LG. That's one reason I am surprised by the amount of reflections.

But from what I am reading it appears that all the best high end TVS these days have a glossy finish, and therefore it would be a problem regardless of what model we went with?

I have heard the Samsung QLED tv's might be better at handing reflections, though I have heard mixed things about picture quality.
However maybe in our case cutting down on reflections is more important than slightly better PQ....
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post #7 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kenbar View Post
I would go to Best Buy and check out different TV's regarding reflections. See if some other TV might suit your needs better. Brighter and/or less reflective.
I have been to Best Buy more times than I would like to admit - only problem is the TV's there are situated in dark rooms and places with lighting vastly different from that of our living room....
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post #8 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zandra898 View Post
I have been to Best Buy more times than I would like to admit - only problem is the TV's there are situated in dark rooms and places with lighting vastly different from that of our living room....
Maybe take a small flashlight with you?
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post #9 of 58 Old 04-09-2018, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeHawk View Post
The "picture on glass" models (E, G) do reflect more light than the B and C models. I have a C and unless there is a light source directly hitting the screen, I have no noticeable reflections.

See if you like the picture with no direct light hitting the screen, no windows even at 90 degrees to the screen, then move things accordingly. By doing so you will be able to bring out full capability of the set, which may make it worth the work.
The picture-on-glass models' screens don't reflect any more light than the B and C since the screens are EXACTLY the same. I guess you could say the (stupid imo) glass border reflects light, but the actual screen itself is identical to the B and C.
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post #10 of 58 Old 04-10-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zandra898 View Post
Hi Everyone

Our new LG OLED TV was delivered today... I was filled with excitement and now am feeling a little dismayed. No doubt it is a beautiful television, but our living room is very bright with lots of ambient light, and the TV is reflecting absolutely everything to the side and behind me!! In any even remotely dark scene find the reflections to be incredibly distracting. We Have just upgraded from an old Samsung TV with a matte screen, so it is obviously an even bigger challenge for me to get used to this. NOTE- there is really no where else we can put the TV- Our apartment layout difficult - also, we do have shades on the windows but they filter the light but don't block it - Black out shades are hideous looking and are not an option. We had also been considering the Sony X930, and am now wondering if we should switch them out or will I have the same issues with the Sony?? Or is there some high-end TV should be considering that will not give reflections like this. I think I have 14 days to switch -unless we are just going to watch TV at night and never ever in the daytime. Any advice suggestions would be very much appreciated! I am attaching two photos one with the television turned off and one with a dark scene...Everything in our living room behind me can be seen including our fern tree, lamps, artwork windows etc.
They sell anti-reflective films for such applications. You will sacrifice some daytime black levels in exchange for diffused reflections, but if the reflections are very distracting to you it's probably worth doing.
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post #11 of 58 Old 04-10-2018, 04:11 PM
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Reflections

Looks like a good reason to pull the top out a bit to reduce some reflection.
Good Luck!

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post #12 of 58 Old 04-11-2018, 01:04 PM
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Thanks for posting this -- I've been trying to get info about how reflective these screens are in the "real world" and this answers my questions. Unfortunately, these sets probably won't be optimal in my environment, either. Ugh! Guess I may have to look into the Samsung stuff after all.

As for the Sony, I don't know about the 930, but my 940 was pretty bad at handling reflections.
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post #13 of 58 Old 04-27-2018, 10:23 AM
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Finally someone opened a thread on this.. I had been wanting to do it since sometime lol!!

I wish I known about this quickly.. but everyone raved about LG OLED top notch and nothing close. But, I think these are meant to be used in dark rooms for that perfect blacks. I have 50% windows in my living room and this reflection is killing day time watching completely!! I hate to use any screen protectors to reduce glare, but looks like need to look into. Just afraid to use those anti-glare things which might remove any special coating on the screen.
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post #14 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 08:40 AM
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It's been mentioned but I'll say it again: upgrade your window coverings. I have "dual function" shades that have light and dark within the same shade (2 different strings/pulls). Very bright rooms were never meant for serious TV viewing.
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you arent utililizing oleds to full potential if you arent using them in a dark room. Note that if a good amount of natural or artificial light falls on your oled screen, the deep black advantage of oled gets washed away in the proceess. Meaning that your perception of black on oled in a room where light is directly falling on the screen is not really going to be any better than a good lcd. You need a light controlled/dark room to enjoy the advantage that self illuminating pixels give you.
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post #16 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
you arent utililizing oleds to full potential if you arent using them in a dark room. Note that if a good amount of natural or artificial light falls on your oled screen, the deep black advantage of oled gets washed away in the proceess. Meaning that your perception of black on oled in a room where light is directly falling on the screen is not really going to be any better than a good lcd. You need a light controlled/dark room to enjoy the advantage that self illuminating pixels give you.
Interesting. Whenever I pop in the OLED threads and people are comparing LCDs to OLEDs, I always see all OLED owners defending their TVs saying that OLEDs are just as good in bright rooms as for example LCDs like the Q9...which we know isn't true. The OP should try a brighter TV with good reflection handing like the Q9....not redo his house.
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post #17 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 09:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Interesting. Whenever I pop in the OLED threads and people are comparing LCDs to OLEDs, I always see all OLED owners defending their TVs saying that OLEDs are just as good in bright rooms as for example LCDs like the Q9...which we know isn't true. The OP should try a brighter TV with good reflection handing like the Q9....not redo his house.
they can still be used in moderately lit rooms, they are sufficiently bright, but that advantage of deeper black you will truly achieve if you are running in a dark/light controlled environment.
Bright environments affect your eyes' perception to make out true black and in such environments, a good lcd vs oled will not be much different in terms of black perception and depth. turn off/block the light and the oled would pull ahead.
And in case it is a very bright room, then oled may not have ample brightness to keep up with the room lighting conditions and so things may look a little dull to you on screen. I dont think people recommend ~800 nit oleds for very bright rooms. a 1500-2000 nit tv would be better for that purpose.

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post #18 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
they can still be used in moderately lit rooms, they are sufficiently bright, but that advantage of deeper black you will truly achieve if you are running in a dark/light controlled environment.
Bright environments affect your eyes' perception to make out true black and in such environments, a good lcd vs oled will not be much different in terms of black perception and depth. turn off/block the light and the oled would pull ahead.
And in case it is a very bright room, then oled may not have ample brightness to keep up with the room lighting conditions and so things may look a little dull to you on screen. I dont think people recommend ~800 nit oleds for very bright rooms. a 1500-2000 nit tv would be better for that purpose.
I think for what he showed in his pictures, a Q9 would be more appropriate to assist with his problem. I agree that OLED is fine for bright rooms. I also agree that they are unbeatable in dark rooms. I believe the Q9 is unbeatable for HDR in brighter rooms. Just my opinion though
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post #19 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 10:30 PM
 
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yeah the q9 makes for a great hdr tv for gaming/movie watching in a bright living room no doubt. the more a tv is inherently bright, the better it will keep up with bright light conditions surrounding it. oleds work to the best of their abilities in dedicated theater rooms, though they can be used in lit rooms just not to their full potential. however the majority of the tv consumer market does not have dedicated light controlled rooms for tv's.
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post #20 of 58 Old 04-28-2018, 11:19 PM
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Samsung Q series and Oled have glossy screens. You will see reflections on areas with no picture just black. On your picture the only area affected is the black hair. I’m with Stanton recommendation. That environment isn’t ideal for picture quality, not a critical environment.
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post #21 of 58 Old 04-29-2018, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Interesting. Whenever I pop in the OLED threads and people are comparing LCDs to OLEDs, I always see all OLED owners defending their TVs saying that OLEDs are just as good in bright rooms as for example LCDs like the Q9...which we know isn't true.
Never saw anyone make that claim. Glossy screens of any variety won't be good with reflections.
Quote:
The OP should try a brighter TV with good reflection handing like the Q9....not redo his house.
I have tons of windows in my great room so have a similar problem as the OP, but I don't put much weight on that performance metric. It would appear the OP feels differently so getting a matte screen or one that better absorbs reflections isn't a bad idea.
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post #22 of 58 Old 04-29-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zandra898 View Post
Our living room is very bright with lots of ambient light, and the TV is reflecting absolutely everything to the side and behind me!! In any even remotely dark scene find the reflections to be incredibly distracting. NOTE- there is really no where else we can put the TV- Our apartment layout difficult - also, we do have shades on the windows but they filter the light but don't block it - Black out shades are hideous looking and are not an option. Or is there some high-end TV should be considering that will not give reflections like this. I think I have 14 days to switch -unless we are just going to watch TV at night and never ever in the daytime. Any advice suggestions would be very much appreciated!
Hi,

Really only 3 options:

1- Change the TV placement or window shadings (which you state neither is an option).

2- Crank up the brightness on the OLED for daytime viewing (using bright pic mode and OLED at 100). Attached is an article on gamma but it's good to show why in a bright room with high OLED settings you'll never be able to take advantage of the inky black of OLEDs. https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-ga...ould-you-care/

3- Buy a LCD TV that has higher brightness and a less reflective screen, because again the pq advantage of OLED will never be realized in a room that bright with the TV placed where it is. Attached is a picture from Mark's (Imagic) review of the Samsung LCD Q9 showing it's screen reflections vs the LG OLED in the same room with the same lighting. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...ds-review.html

Can you guess which one is the LCD and which one is the OLED?
-


Notice that both have reflections - So there is no perfect TV - only the right TV for the right application for the right person's needs.

Hope this helps and good luck on your noble quest!
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post #23 of 58 Old 04-29-2018, 11:34 AM
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On that image above I would have preferred two individual pictures in the same location.


See the attached pictures below for a better reference. Q8 and C8. Both screens are glossy and you will see reflections on both.
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On that image above I would have preferred two individual pictures in the same location. See the attached pictures below for a better reference. Q8 and C8. Both screens are glossy and you will see reflections on both.
Couldn't agree more on the preference for "two individual pictures in the same location" that's why I linked Mark's full review of the Samsung Q9 - per his review:
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It's a fact that Samsung's anti-reflective coating technology is now entering uncharted territory where it's delivering deep blacks with no reflections in well-lit spaces.
So my point was based on Mark's review that the Q9 appears to give the deep blacks with a lot less reflections in well-lit spaces which is what the OP was inquiring about. I also clearly mention that there are reflections in the Q9 picture above and that no TV is perfect.

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spend money on a dedicated room and wouldnt have to worry about reflections. the dark is the best place to appreciate any display. in the case of a lcd, the dark can be a dual edged sword as the imperfections arising out of imperfect backlight control get exaggerated, so a bias light just behind the tv is necessary, best way to view lcd, dark room with bias light right behind the tv, set to 6500 kelvins and intensity set to lesser than the light output of the tv.
viewing tv's in bright lit living rooms with large windows and sunlight falling in and depending on the AR coating of the tv {which is never perfect} to minimize reflections was never the apt way to view a tv. dont settle for compromises.

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post #26 of 58 Old 05-01-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
spend money on a dedicated room and wouldnt have to worry about reflections. the dark is the best place to appreciate any display. in the case of a lcd, the dark can be a dual edged sword as the imperfections arising out of imperfect backlight control get exaggerated, so a bias light just behind the tv is necessary, best way to view lcd, dark room with bias light right behind the tv, set to 6500 kelvins and intensity set to lesser than the light output of the tv.
viewing tv's in bright lit living rooms with large windows and sunlight falling in and depending on the AR coating of the tv {which is never perfect} to minimize reflections was never the apt way to view a tv. dont settle for compromises.
Ok, I'll sell my house and move out of the city so I can get an appropriate dedicated TV room, makes sense lol. It's hard enough to afford a house with decent square feet where I live in Los Angeles let alone find that special room to better appreciate a TV in darkness. I wish we all had that luxery.
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post #27 of 58 Old 05-01-2018, 02:44 PM
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Ok, I'll sell my house and move out of the city so I can get an appropriate dedicated TV room, makes sense lol. It's hard enough to afford a house with decent square feet where I live in Los Angeles let alone find that special room to better appreciate a TV in darkness. I wish we all had that luxery.
Great answer dude!! It's annoying to see some of the replies, if nothing to contribute then shouldn't bother.
For a $1500 TV, folks saying to get windows treatment, get a dedicated room, get something else big lol.
Bottom line, OLED reflections suck! We have to live w/ it unfortunately. I got E7P myself.

There is a screen protector type thing I saw on amazon or some place, but not sure how it affects the actual quality. Phone screen protector itself tough to do some times w/o bubbles, don't think I can do it on 65" screen lol.
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post #28 of 58 Old 05-01-2018, 03:23 PM
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Q9 reflections




You no longer will see matte screens on high end TV’s. Matte screen significantly improve reflections but the PQ is usually inferior.
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I would say my view on matte vs glossy is: The picture in general will have more pop with a glossy screen. Moderate, indirect light will also affect picture quality less on a glossy screen because the light will not be spread across the picture. However, with heavy and direct reflections, glossy screens will be more distracting. Black levels, contrast, and visible color gamut will hold up better in general across the glossy screen, but the picture can be entirely destroyed in parts of the screen severely affected by light, so matte screens, while you will lose pop across the whole screen, you will not be as distracted by the specific areas being hit by light.
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post #30 of 58 Old 05-01-2018, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dkfan9 View Post
I would say my view on matte vs glossy is: The picture in general will have more pop with a glossy screen. Moderate, indirect light will also affect picture quality less on a glossy screen because the light will not be spread across the picture. However, with heavy and direct reflections, glossy screens will be more distracting. Black levels, contrast, and visible color gamut will hold up better in general across the glossy screen, but the picture can be entirely destroyed in parts of the screen severely affected by light, so matte screens, while you will lose pop across the whole screen, you will not be as distracted by the specific areas being hit by light.
Semi gloss and matte screens dont make you lose black levels, contrast ,wcg over full gloss, they can put out inky blacks and deep colors, what they dont do is give you that sense of 'staring through a window' depth and clarity that a full gloss screen can (maybe that's what you mean by "pop" ? (pop has no technical meaning). A full gloss screen with a good AR filter is preferable overall. i dont see sony using full gloss in their high end lcd's, my sony x series lcd is semi gloss and i believe the z9d, which puts out great contrast and blacks with sdr content, also uses semi gloss.
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