2018 Sony A8F Owners Only Thread - Page 80 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2371 of 2451 Old 03-23-2020, 06:10 AM
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one thing that has worked for me with this tv is having the cinemotion on high most of the time and the smooth gradation set to off most of the time. Sometimes I do get some banding but its a tradeoff I am willing to live with as it seems sometimes I get a headache as if my eyes are trying to see something that is being mechanically erased similar to dolby noise reduction in tape recording.
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post #2372 of 2451 Old 03-24-2020, 01:47 PM
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New Firmware

New firmware update:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...5a8f/downloads


About this download
Benefits and Improvements from the latest update

*Fixes an issue where the TV will not respond to the remote
*Fixes an issue where the TV freezes after performing an OS update

Previous Benefits and Improvements
The following benefits and improvements are also included in this update.

*Resolves an issue where the WiFi® connection fails after updating the TV software to Android™ 8.0 Oreo
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post #2373 of 2451 Old 03-24-2020, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
New firmware update:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...5a8f/downloads


About this download
Benefits and Improvements from the latest update

*Fixes an issue where the TV will not respond to the remote
*Fixes an issue where the TV freezes after performing an OS update

Previous Benefits and Improvements
The following benefits and improvements are also included in this update.

*Resolves an issue where the WiFi® connection fails after updating the TV software to Android™ 8.0 Oreo
No thanks--Why mess with something not broken. I never got the other firmwares and my set runs fine

Matt
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post #2374 of 2451 Old 03-31-2020, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
New firmware update:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...5a8f/downloads


About this download
Benefits and Improvements from the latest update

*Fixes an issue where the TV will not respond to the remote
*Fixes an issue where the TV freezes after performing an OS update

Previous Benefits and Improvements
The following benefits and improvements are also included in this update.

*Resolves an issue where the WiFi® connection fails after updating the TV software to Android™ 8.0 Oreo
Testing...

Spoiler!
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post #2375 of 2451 Old 04-20-2020, 03:40 PM
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Installed the Disney+ App over the weekend & I cannot get 5.1 via Optical, it plays for about 1-2 seconds & it then reverts to 2.0 channel stereo. Netflix plays fine in the internal App for 5.1. Spoke to Sony & they advised it's an App issue (which I already imagined), Sony gave me a number to call Disney+ in Australia but that is disconnected, only way I could contact them was via email & I still haven't received a reply. I did some research & it seems LG, Samsung & Sony TV's had the same problem but now it seems as if it's just the Sony's or perhaps even Android that still don't work.
Anyone else experience this issue with the Disney+ App?

Theatre - Sony 65" A8F OLED, Pioneer SC-LX59 9.2 Receiver, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-Ray Player, Klipsch R820F Fronts, Klipsch R-52C Centre, Klipsch R-51 Surrounds, Klipsch R-100SW Sub x2, ELAC Debut A4 Atmos Modules setup as 5.2.4, Sony PS4 Pro, Logitech Harmony Elite.
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post #2376 of 2451 Old 04-25-2020, 05:47 PM
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long time A8F owner here and have always struggled with dim Dolby Vision with Apple TV on this set, i was never sure if that was how its supposed to look and I’m just used to a brighter pictures. I got a LG CX for my game room this weekend and holy crap Dolby Vision on this set looks mind blowingly better than on my A8F.

I’m now 100% certain the Dolby Vision over HDMI implementation on the Sony sets is completely broken, there’s no doubt about it now. I still my A8F in the living room has a great picture, but it sucks to have to manually switch to HDR10 whenever I want to enjoy HDR content to avoid Dolby Vision
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post #2377 of 2451 Old 04-26-2020, 12:34 AM
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Yep that is how A8F is with DV sadly, very very dim. Bumped gamma and ACE on is a little better. We have no DV bright mode to make up for it and that seems to work much better on A9F/A9G and the pixel booster. Until I buy a new tv I just let the sony do HDR10 on everything from ATV4K and Oppo203 but I'm always annoyed to know it looks much better on pretty much everything else. That's why I'm thinking to switching to Panasonic this year or wait and see how A9H handles DV in the fall. And there is ways to force HDR10 instead of DV on apple tv so you don't manually have to changed each time. You lose range match thought but that is a small price to pay for me since SDR and HDR switching still works.

icespide: saw you just bought a LG CX also. Please share how you find PQ compared to A8F. It's hard to find comparisons to older models like A8F. Specially motion is also interesting and DV. Our is A8F is 2/3 year old panel tech and the processor is from 2016/2017 I think.

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post #2378 of 2451 Old 04-26-2020, 07:05 AM
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Yep that is how A8F is with DV sadly, very very dim. Bumped gamma and ACE on is a little better. We have no DV bright mode to make up for it and that seems to work much better on A9F/A9G and the pixel booster. Until I buy a new tv I just let the sony do HDR10 on everything from ATV4K and Oppo203 but I'm always annoyed to know it looks much better on pretty much everything else. That's why I'm thinking to switching to Panasonic this year or wait and see how A9H handles DV in the fall. And there is ways to force HDR10 instead of DV on apple tv so you don't manually have to changed each time. You lose range match thought but that is a small price to pay for me since SDR and HDR switching still works.

icespide: saw you just bought a LG CX also. Please share how you find PQ compared to A8F. It's hard to find comparisons to older models like A8F. Specially motion is also interesting and DV. Our is A8F is 2/3 year old panel tech and the processor is from 2016/2017 I think.
only had the CX for a couple days but my initial impressions compared to my A8F

SDR content: I actually think my A8F looks a bit better for SDR stuff than the CX, I’m a little underwhelmed with SDR on the CX

HDR10 content: Both look really good, I do think its true that Sony favors a more uniform brightness with less emphasis on specular highlights, while the LG really tries to wow you with the specular highlights. in the room with the CX I’m also sitting closer so I think its a bit more impactful there (need a bigger OLED in the living room haha!)

DV content: this is the easy one, the LG is 400% better than my A8F no question, at least over HDMI. I don’t really use any of the smart tv stuff

upscaling: definitely think Sony still does a better job upscaling than LG, switch games in particular upscaled and held up better on my A8F than the CX

motion: I’m not very sensitive to motion stuff, the CX didn’t look noticeably worse than my A8F or anything, though I think the Sony 930E I used to have in my game room definitely looked smoother for movies (better than the CX and the A8F)

I’m planning to get a new OLED in the living room within the next year and so far I’m still undecided if I’ll go LG or Sony, I love everything about the A8F except the piss poor DV stuff
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Last edited by icespide; 04-26-2020 at 07:08 AM.
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post #2379 of 2451 Old 05-02-2020, 12:54 AM
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Hello from Australia. I have recently gained a couple of issues with my A8F, which I have owned for just over a year.
Firstly, “Ethernet not connected” has been displayed now and then. I then noticed the inbuilt streaming apps for Netflix, Stan etc would not work as it would say no internet connection. I am using a LAN cable connection. The internet within the house is working fine.
Secondly, sparkles have started appearing which is very noticeable against black and dark backgrounds.

My fix for issue one has been to use an a Apple TV 4K box for streaming apps. It has worked flawlessly with the same LAN connection. Is the internet connection a known issue on the A8F?

The only fix for the sparkles, has been to turn off the tv from the power point and when it restarts, the sparkles are gone. It is not a permanent fix, as sometimes they are there when I turn on the tv and other times they aren’t. They never appear during a tv watching session though if they aren’t there upon turning on.

Has anyone experienced any of these problems and/or solved the issues?

Cheers


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post #2380 of 2451 Old 05-02-2020, 04:45 AM
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I forgot to add to my post #2379 , that the sparkles issue also coincides with the tv constantly resetting/screen going blank/disconnecting, from whichever input signal is being received.
This doesn’t happen when the sparkles are not present.


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post #2381 of 2451 Old 05-02-2020, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_P View Post
I forgot to add to my post #2379 , that the sparkles issue also coincides with the tv constantly resetting/screen going blank/disconnecting, from whichever input signal is being received.
This doesn’t happen when the sparkles are not present.


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Swap out your HDMI cable. I’ve seen sparkles happen before when an HDMI cable goes bad. Hopefully it’ll be something as simple as that!
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post #2382 of 2451 Old 05-02-2020, 01:28 PM
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Swap out your HDMI cable. I’ve seen sparkles happen before when an HDMI cable goes bad. Hopefully it’ll be something as simple as that!

Thanks for the reply.
The sparkles aren’t always there, so could it be a bad cable? I did read while googling, that a bad HDMI cable could be the issue.
I’m running a foxtel box, Sony X700 and an Apple TV 4K into a Yamaha RXV585.
I suppose it could be any one of these cables or the ARC cable from the Yamaha to the TV.


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post #2383 of 2451 Old 05-03-2020, 07:02 PM
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Improved DV through HDMI - Apple TV 4K?

Hi all,


Thanks for all the advice and settings for the A8F over the years.
In Australia we received a firmware update on the 22/4/20 which states "general improvement of performance".


Now it has been widely circulated that the Sony TVs do not handle Dolby Vision well via HDMI - citing specifically the Apple TV 4K, where images appear washed out and dim,

with most users opting for HDR10 by forcing this through the settings and disabling "Match Dynamic Range".
With any new firmware update, I go in and test to see whether there is any improvement to DV via this means and was shocked to see there may very well have been.
Bare in mind this is purely via an eyeball test and wanted to see if anybody else has experienced this as there doesn't appear to be any information on the web about it.


I have tried this through Netflix, Disney+ and the dedicated Movies app. (iTunes purchases) all with marked improvement, matching and in some cases exceeding the Dolby Vision
performance via the internal apps. IMHO they looks discernibly better than there HDR10 counterparts.


I have utilized Calibrated settings suggested by users in this forum - (eg. Gamma +2 etc) with the one difference being the "Advanced Contrast Enhancer" - I have set to HIGH.


The results have been impressive for the majority of content I have watched. I only have a LG C7 to compare it to but would be interested to hear other Forum members opinions.


Could the Advanced Contrast Enhancer improvements, along with the more tolerable ABL be the cause?

Maybe Sony have issued Apple with an improved DV profile?


Love to hear your thoughts.


Thanks
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post #2384 of 2451 Old 05-03-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzAV View Post
Improved DV through HDMI - Apple TV 4K?

Hi all,


Thanks for all the advice and settings for the A8F over the years.
In Australia we received a firmware update on the 22/4/20 which states "general improvement of performance".


Now it has been widely circulated that the Sony TVs do not handle Dolby Vision well via HDMI - citing specifically the Apple TV 4K, where images appear washed out and dim,

with most users opting for HDR10 by forcing this through the settings and disabling "Match Dynamic Range".
With any new firmware update, I go in and test to see whether there is any improvement to DV via this means and was shocked to see there may very well have been.
Bare in mind this is purely via an eyeball test and wanted to see if anybody else has experienced this as there doesn't appear to be any information on the web about it.


I have tried this through Netflix, Disney+ and the dedicated Movies app. (iTunes purchases) all with marked improvement, matching and in some cases exceeding the Dolby Vision
performance via the internal apps. IMHO they looks discernibly better than there HDR10 counterparts.


I have utilized Calibrated settings suggested by users in this forum - (eg. Gamma +2 etc) with the one difference being the "Advanced Contrast Enhancer" - I have set to HIGH.


The results have been impressive for the majority of content I have watched. I only have a LG C7 to compare it to but would be interested to hear other Forum members opinions.


Could the Advanced Contrast Enhancer improvements, along with the more tolerable ABL be the cause?

Maybe Sony have issued Apple with an improved DV profile?


Love to hear your thoughts.


Thanks

Wow, very interesting findings! Unfortunately Sony hasn’t made any such new firmware available in the U.S. yet.

Does DV look as good on your A8F as it does on your LG now? If so, is that only with Adv Contrast Enhancer set to high and gamma at +2 for DV? What about if Adv Contrast Enhancer set to low or off?

Would you say that DV looks the same when using the Apple TV now as it does when using the internal apps?


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post #2385 of 2451 Old 05-03-2020, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
Wow, very interesting findings! Unfortunately Sony hasn’t made any such new firmware available in the U.S. yet.

Does DV look as good on your A8F as it does on your LG now? If so, is that only with Adv Contrast Enhancer set to high and gamma at +2 for DV? What about if Adv Contrast Enhancer set to low or off?

Would you say that DV looks the same when using the Apple TV now as it does when using the internal apps?


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It is subjective but I personally prefer it now over the LG. Highlight roll off and subtleties of color from the Sony not to mention the already championed motion give it the edge.
I will take some screenshots and post them (comparing the Adv. contrast settings) but the major improvement def. visible with Adv. Contrast set to High or Medium, with my recommendation being for High.
Bare in mind they will be SDR shots but hopefully they will convey some of the findings.

I will also post my settings.
I would say it would be on par with internal apps with definite edge to Apple TV in regards to performance. It won't pause the content or exit out of the app when you make adjustments etc.
The only content I have seen somewhat of a negative performance is in a scene from 'Doctor Sleep' involving the main antagonist and a certain dream-ish sequence, without giving away spoilers.
That is one film out of about 25 that I have tried of DV content since this update across the various apps, (and I say somewhat because there are still advantages) that I would give the nod to the LG over Sony.

I feel the LG has always gone for that POW! HDR at times over correct skin tones, subtlety etc.
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post #2386 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 12:01 AM
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Okay apologies about the quality of some of the shots. Just wanted to do this quickly with comparative evidence. Bare in mind there is some artificing present in the images but not in the actual films themselves (either paused or in motion.)
Just wanted to take pictures of High Contrast scenes where the benefit of HDR would be beneficial.
Although it looks like the highlights are blown out in the High - 'Advance Contrast' settings, that is indeed not the case.
(As goes it with SDR images of HDR content .)

These were taken on a Flat picture profile on my Nikon D810, F4, Iso 1000, Tamron 24 -70. No additional processing applied.

'Adv. Contrast Enhancer' Off is the Left of the two images - 'Adv. Contrast Enhancer' High is the Right of the two images.

First Two are from the Universal title screen credit from Pacific Rim:Uprising. This is through the Apple TV Movie app.


Second Two are from Transformers:Age of Extinction. This is also through the Apple TV Movie app.


Third Two are from the animated film Moana. This is through Disney+ app on the Apple TV.
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post #2387 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzAV View Post
Improved DV through HDMI - Apple TV 4K?

Hi all,


Thanks for all the advice and settings for the A8F over the years.
In Australia we received a firmware update on the 22/4/20 which states "general improvement of performance".


Now it has been widely circulated that the Sony TVs do not handle Dolby Vision well via HDMI - citing specifically the Apple TV 4K, where images appear washed out and dim,

with most users opting for HDR10 by forcing this through the settings and disabling "Match Dynamic Range".
With any new firmware update, I go in and test to see whether there is any improvement to DV via this means and was shocked to see there may very well have been.
Bare in mind this is purely via an eyeball test and wanted to see if anybody else has experienced this as there doesn't appear to be any information on the web about it.


I have tried this through Netflix, Disney+ and the dedicated Movies app. (iTunes purchases) all with marked improvement, matching and in some cases exceeding the Dolby Vision
performance via the internal apps. IMHO they looks discernibly better than there HDR10 counterparts.


I have utilized Calibrated settings suggested by users in this forum - (eg. Gamma +2 etc) with the one difference being the "Advanced Contrast Enhancer" - I have set to HIGH.


The results have been impressive for the majority of content I have watched. I only have a LG C7 to compare it to but would be interested to hear other Forum members opinions.


Could the Advanced Contrast Enhancer improvements, along with the more tolerable ABL be the cause?

Maybe Sony have issued Apple with an improved DV profile?


Love to hear your thoughts.


Thanks
thanks for this info, I am eagerly awaiting this update to try now

just to double check, even with the improvements you noticed you still have advanced contrast set to medium - high? If you turn off ACE does it look too dim?

even with some improvements if you still need to turn ACE on to make it comparable to HDR10 then I would consider Dolby Vision over HDMI still busted IMO
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post #2388 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzAV View Post
It is subjective but I personally prefer it now over the LG. Highlight roll off and subtleties of color from the Sony not to mention the already championed motion give it the edge.
I will take some screenshots and post them (comparing the Adv. contrast settings) but the major improvement def. visible with Adv. Contrast set to High or Medium, with my recommendation being for High.
Bare in mind they will be SDR shots but hopefully they will convey some of the findings.

I will also post my settings.
I would say it would be on par with internal apps with definite edge to Apple TV in regards to performance. It won't pause the content or exit out of the app when you make adjustments etc.
The only content I have seen somewhat of a negative performance is in a scene from 'Doctor Sleep' involving the main antagonist and a certain dream-ish sequence, without giving away spoilers.
That is one film out of about 25 that I have tried of DV content since this update across the various apps, (and I say somewhat because there are still advantages) that I would give the nod to the LG over Sony.

I feel the LG has always gone for that POW! HDR at times over correct skin tones, subtlety etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icespide View Post
thanks for this info, I am eagerly awaiting this update to try now

just to double check, even with the improvements you noticed you still have advanced contrast set to medium - high? If you turn off ACE does it look too dim?

even with some improvements if you still need to turn ACE on to make it comparable to HDR10 then I would consider Dolby Vision over HDMI still busted IMO


So it looks like the firmware that EzAV is referring to that was released on April 22, 2020 in Australia is v6.6555 which was already released in the U.S. in March. Same firmware version number.


The release notes for the Australian/Asian version of the firmware state:
https://www.sony-asia.com/electronic...loads/00016672

* Improves general performance of the TV
* Resolves an issue where TV freezes after update


The release notes for the U.S. version state:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...loads/00016666

* Fixes an issue where the TV will not respond to the remote
* Fixes an issue where the TV freezes after performing an OS update


So perhaps we already have these updates in the U.S.?

EzAV, did you update your Apple TVOS version recently or anything? Just wondering if there are any other variables at play here or if all of the improvements came from the v6.6555 firmware update on your A8F?

Thanks!
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post #2389 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 11:34 AM
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for what its worth my A8F and Apple TV are up to date on the latest firmware and I frequently check DV quality as well. it looks the same to me (so dim it has to be bugged)
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post #2390 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 11:35 AM
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It is the same on the A9G, in DV Dark. Luckily the A9G has DV Bright, which looks good.

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post #2391 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 11:37 AM
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It is the same on the A9G, in DV Dark. Luckily the A9G has DV Bright, which looks good.
do you know what exactly is different with DV Dark vs DV Bright? is DV bright just jacking up the advanced contrast enhancer?
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post #2392 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 11:49 AM
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do you know what exactly is different with DV Dark vs DV Bright? is DV bright just jacking up the advanced contrast enhancer?
ACE is not on with Bright.

DNice checked the EOTF tracking and Bright tracks the most accurately, with Dark being, well, too dark and not tracking the EOTF correctly.

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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
ACE is not on with Bright.

DNice checked the EOTF tracking and Bright tracks the most accurately, with Dark being, well, too dark and not tracking the EOTF correctly.
good to know! I've been eyeing the 77 inch A9G for my living room

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post #2394 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
ACE is not on with Bright.

DNice checked the EOTF tracking and Bright tracks the most accurately, with Dark being, well, too dark and not tracking the EOTF correctly.
But can DV dark and bright modes be made to look the same by using ACE on high and/or boosting gamma when using DV dark and comparing it to DV bright for example? I guess the question is, is it possible DV bright mode is simply applying the ACE and/or gamma changes behind the scenes.

Not sure what adjustments are even possible since I'm an A8F owner and the DV dark & bright modes obviously don't exist on this model.
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post #2395 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
But can DV dark and bright modes be made to look the same by using ACE on high and/or boosting gamma when using DV dark and comparing it to DV bright for example? I guess the question is, is it possible DV bright mode is simply applying the ACE and/or gamma changes behind the scenes.

Not sure what adjustments are even possible since I'm an A8F owner and the DV dark & bright modes obviously don't exist on this model.
It's hard to know unless doing a side by side comparison but the theory behind what you're saying makes sense & Sony is making the A8F do the Dark/Bright with the ACE???

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post #2396 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 03:40 PM
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You can def tweak Dark in those methods, but either need to see how it looks against a reference image or be able to run some EOTF tests to see what you are doing. I know you can turn ACE on to brighten things up.

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post #2397 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
You can def tweak Dark in those methods, but either need to see how it looks against a reference image or be able to run some EOTF tests to see what you are doing. I know you can turn ACE on to brighten things up.
But couldn't someone just calibrate DV dark mode using ACE high and gamma of +1 or +2 and toggle over to DV bright mode and see how closely the 2 modes match using a few different scenes? No need to overcomplicated it and use reference images, etc. If someone needs special instruments to see a difference, I'd say that the 2 modes are more than "close enough" if the naked eye can't discern the difference when toggling back and forth.
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post #2398 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 04:53 PM
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It physically pains me to turn on ACE to artificially brighten broken dim DV. Low is the most I will go. I just stick with HDR10
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post #2399 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
So it looks like the firmware that EzAV is referring to that was released on April 22, 2020 in Australia is v6.6555 which was already released in the U.S. in March. Same firmware version number.


The release notes for the Australian/Asian version of the firmware state:


* Improves general performance of the TV
* Resolves an issue where TV freezes after update


The release notes for the U.S. version state:


* Fixes an issue where the TV will not respond to the remote
* Fixes an issue where the TV freezes after performing an OS update


So perhaps we already have these updates in the U.S.?

EzAV, did you update your Apple TVOS version recently or anything? Just wondering if there are any other variables at play here or if all of the improvements came from the v6.6555 firmware update on your A8F?

Thanks!

I think it's definitely possible (and probably likely) that the U.S and U.K have already received this update for the A8F.

Apple TVOS is at 13.4 and was updated as soon as released, so no recorded change there.


What I find interesting is that when activating ACE the A8F used to leave it active when changing from HDR to SDR content, and you would annoyingly have to go in and turn it off.
eg. In Cinema Pro I used to have it set to low with Gamma +1 for HDR10 content then when resorting to SDR it would still be active but Gamma would change back to -1.
So I created an identical profile for Cinema Home for SDR content then would switch to Cinema Pro when HDR10 was required.


Now though, it remembers the ACE settings for SDR, HDR10 and DV content. So I just sit in Cinema Home for SDR and DV content and switch to Cinema Pro when using HDR10.


I also find that ACE basically has little to no impact at all when adjusted through the internal apps on DV content.

I have always left it to Off anyway as my understanding of DV content (and benefit of such) was the scene to scene Metadata analysis, thus negating its need.
However activating ACE through HDMI now though for DV content on the Apple TV4K really seems to unlock the TVs true capabilities for this content.
ACE never performed as well as this for me previously, DV content through Apple TV4K underwhelmed.



Now, I honestly feel like I've received a new TV as the improvement to me is startling. It feels right to me now. I can't see any artifacting but defer to the experts on this. Just ask that you try it.



I have theories for this - such as what as been previously suggested ie. A9G having a DV Bright and DV Dark mode
but also because perhaps with DV IQ on the horizon, and Sony more likely getting on board early (and avoiding their DV release fiasco with 2017, 2018 sets) that
a new DV profile has been created and issued to Apple for the Sony 2020 sets. Thus to be backwards compatible with previous models, (the profile itself, not DV IQ), a firmware
update was required and may have boosted the performance of the older sets. Again just a theory.
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post #2400 of 2451 Old 05-04-2020, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post
But can DV dark and bright modes be made to look the same by using ACE on high and/or boosting gamma when using DV dark and comparing it to DV bright for example? I guess the question is, is it possible DV bright mode is simply applying the ACE and/or gamma changes behind the scenes.
There is no substitute for DV Bright. ACE and/or gamma mods improve DV Dark but it will not equal DV Bright.
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