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-   -   LG OLED C7/ E7 VS C8 / E8, Should you Go 2018 or 2017 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2974652-lg-oled-c7-e7-vs-c8-e8-should-you-go-2018-2017-a.html)

satboy 05-01-2018 06:00 AM

LG OLED C7/ E7 VS C8 / E8, Should you Go 2018 or 2017
 
I own the E7 and the C8, frankly they are close bothers but will give the edge to the 2018's. Given they added a logo protection feature, newer OS, faster CPU plus AI, I will give the nod to the 2018 series but it's really close. So if you can save a bunch $ on the 2017 and in the market it might make sense as long as your not buying the the TV to watch CNN all day. It does appear the 2016's suffer the most in this area (BI) and ones chances are lessened with the 2017's but not eliminated. Pricing from well known forum sponsors on the 2018's are close to the 2017's which was quicker than last year if I remember correctly. If you are a heavy gammer the 2018's kick-but compared as it's much smoother and the HDR is insane, plus having the static logo dimmer is a great feature to protect that investment.

Anyone else want to weight in?

I am not asking to compare or discuss BI to death as thats been done to death, we will see what rtings finds when they put it to the test, that will be the facts.

tommyy2 05-01-2018 09:24 AM

How deep are your pockets.
You seem to know the pros/cons so the $$$ value for you would be the determining factor.

Chris Hansen 05-01-2018 10:05 AM


SoCalGuy-99 05-01-2018 10:59 AM

Most Reviewers Agree With You
 
If you have the time and patience then waiting until this Fall for the 8 Series prices to fall is probably the best bet (as they may fall quicker and deeper than last year's 7 series). But if you've been waiting and want to get a great TV for a smoking deal then buy a 7 series now.

It's slightly analogous to Intel's old Tick-Tock release schedule (minor-major upgrade years) and LG 2018 OLED's appear to be a Tick year and next year's 2019 top-emision panels appear to be a Tock year.

https://www.oled-info.com/dscc-lgd-w...tv-panels-2019

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:01 PM

What about HDR tone mapping? Going from a 6 to 7 , it was noted the image was much more dim being that LG was trying to show more of the highlights on 4000 nit content, vs just clipping some of it. I thought some had mentioned the 8 series was brighter in HDR in this regard. For the 7 series you had to use Dynamic Mapping to make it look better, but it still isn't as bright as a 6 series.

satboy 05-01-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyy2 (Post 56121860)
How deep are your pockets.
You seem to know the pros/cons so the $$$ value for you would be the determining factor.

Not that deep but was able to sell my EF9500 for a great price (folks want 3D) which made buying the C8 fairly painless (sub 3K). I also got the 2017 almost a year ago for $2600, so really it's not too bad all in all.

I could have waited another year for the 2019's but that's another year and the value of the EF9500 I doubt will be going up any further, so timing was right for me.

I did the same with my Pioneer Plasma at the time, sold for a good $ and got into OLED, never looked back.

satboy 05-01-2018 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56122790)
What about HDR tone mapping? Going from a 6 to 7 , it was noted the image was much more dim being that LG was trying to show more of the highlights on 4000 nit content, vs just clipping some of it. I thought some had mentioned the 8 series was brighter in HDR in this regard. For the 7 series you had to use Dynamic Mapping to make it look better, but it still isn't as bright as a 6 series.

measuring by eyesight is tough right, so all I can say is that motion handling on the 2018's has vastly improved and only looks slightly brighter to me over the 2017. I think the addition of the logo dimming feature is a plus for gammers assuming it applies to that and not just CNN type of content?

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satboy (Post 56122814)
measuring by eyesight is tough right, so all I can say is that motion handling on the 2018's has vastly improved and only looks slightly brighter to me over the 2017. I think the addition of the logo dimming feature is a plus for gammers assuming it applies to that and not just CNN type of content?

Seems there has been two motion comments in reviews, one is the panel behaves better with TruMotion off, and also TruMotion behaves better. Do you use TruMotion?

My E6 did pretty well on DJ 3 Db 0, but there were times in 24hz content where fast moving items would go Klingon cloaking mode. Also artifacts were a little more prevalent than other brands in certain instances.

satboy 05-01-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hansen (Post 56122110)

I created another thread as I felt that it's off-topic to go into that thread and start comparing the two years. As a 2017 owner I rather discuss in that thread the 2017's with other owners.

Geo JAB 05-01-2018 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56122790)
What about HDR tone mapping? Going from a 6 to 7 , it was noted the image was much more dim being that LG was trying to show more of the highlights on 4000 nit content, vs just clipping some of it. I thought some had mentioned the 8 series was brighter in HDR in this regard. For the 7 series you had to use Dynamic Mapping to make it look better, but it still isn't as bright as a 6 series.

Man why did you have to say that lol..Im trying to go from a 55b6 to a 65b7. I thought the b7 would be brighter but you're saying its actually more dim than a b6?

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo JAB (Post 56122836)
Man why did you have to say that lol..Im trying to go from a 55b6 to a 65b7. I thought the b7 would be brighter but you're saying its actually more dim than a b6?

PM Rich B, he can explain it well and it was very helpful to me when considering a 17 or A1E. Sony chose to map some, and then clip the rest, while LG chose to try and map more which means dimming the panel down to hit those higher nit highlights so they did not clip.

Evidently, one complaint about the 2016's were that they did not show as much of the range, so I think LG changed in 17 to cater to these reviewers. I prefer the stay bright, and just clip what you can't show method to be honest.

I think he went from a B6 to a C7.

Chris Hansen 05-01-2018 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satboy (Post 56122832)
I created another thread as I felt that it's off-topic to go into that thread and start comparing the two years. As a 2017 owner I rather discuss in that thread the 2017's with other owners.

I was just linking to a post that contained information that seemed on point with your question/thread. Here's the info that link goes to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 (Post 56121998)
While Cnet makes the following statement about the C8:

"The LG C8 is the best performing TV we've tested to date."

They also make the following statement about the C7:

"Anybody who bought a 2017 OLED TV can rest assured that the newest version isn't significantly better (and has an uglier stand). For anybody who wants to save money by getting a 2017 OLED TV on closeout now, rather than waiting until this fall for the C8 to drop in price, consider this review a green light."

https://www.cnet.com/products/lg-oled65c8pua/review/


gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satboy (Post 56122832)
I created another thread as I felt that it's off-topic to go into that thread and start comparing the two years. As a 2017 owner I rather discuss in that thread the 2017's with other owners.

I like it. I have about 30 more days to decide on A8F or C8, before Chad comes in.

akmandal 05-01-2018 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo JAB (Post 56122836)
Man why did you have to say that lol..Im trying to go from a 55b6 to a 65b7. I thought the b7 would be brighter but you're saying its actually more dim than a b6?

No thats BS. The 7 series are definitely brighter than the 6.

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akmandal (Post 56122962)
No thats BS. The 7 series are definitely brighter than the 6.

I am referring to HDR content only and 4000 nit mastered discs.

5x10 05-01-2018 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56122984)
Quote:

Originally Posted by akmandal (Post 56122962)
No thats BS. The 7 series are definitely brighter than the 6.

I am referring to HDR content only and 4000 nit mastered discs.

in other words, the 7 series will be brighter than the 6 series for the majority of the time

Not that much content hitting 4K

SoCalGuy-99 05-01-2018 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satboy (Post 56122832)
I created another thread as I felt that it's off-topic to go into that thread and start comparing the two years. As a 2017 owner I rather discuss in that thread the 2017's with other owners.

I really like your dedicated thread, although both owners and potential buyers view/contribute to the other thread so it felt apropos to link something that said if you're thinking about buying a discounted 7 Series (or already did) have no major FOMO - as this has been a reoccurring question by both new owners and potential buyers there (myself included when I was making my purchasing decision).

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5x10 (Post 56123038)
in other words, the 7 series will be brighter than the 6 serious for the majority of the time

Not that much content hitting 4K

I've seen plenty of discs show 4000 on my 203, but sure...

His key was he had to enable Dyn Contrast to low to get that stuff to look brighter. LG trying to map to 4000 nit was a poor idea.

Here are a couple of posts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53278050

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53338602

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53346066

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53893961

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post53888889

It is not just 4000 nit discs as well, it was a tone mapping decision. While there is no set rule for tone mapping, I am curious if this has been modified in 2018.


@RichB

waltinaz 05-01-2018 01:04 PM

I've been watching the various threads closely since CES, because I'll be upgrading my 4-year old 80" Vizio this year...FINALLY now that a larger OLED can (will) be had for $5K +/- around Black Friday...(hopefully)! I've been pining for OLED for years, after moving from my 58" Samsung plasma, which I loved. I'm a plasma guy, through and through.

I've been wanting the 77" C8, though David Katzmaier's review today has made me at least THINK about a C7 or a B8. But I don't want to have regrets over not getting "the best", even if it's a bit more.

I will also say that the buzz and reviews that the Q9FN have been getting might make me think about that, if it could be had in >75". But it's not, so oh well...

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 01:23 PM

Nov and Jan will have some sweet deals on a C8 77" I think.

kibit86 05-01-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56123080)
I've seen plenty of discs show 4000 on my 203, but sure...

His key was he had to enable Dyn Contrast to low to get that stuff to look brighter. LG trying to map to 4000 nit was a poor idea.

Imho, map the content in order to preserve every highlight details should be the main goal of an hdr display. Clipping all the detail over the max screen brightness is comparable to view a normal sdr content with the brightness maxed out. The question for me is: why directors are mastering content at the ridiculous peak of 4000nits? I don't want the sun into my set!

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A5010 utilizzando Tapatalk

RichB 05-01-2018 03:11 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56122868)
PM Rich B, he can explain it well and it was very helpful to me when considering a 17 or A1E. Sony chose to map some, and then clip the rest, while LG chose to try and map more which means dimming the panel down to hit those higher nit highlights so they did not clip.

Evidently, one complaint about the 2016's were that they did not show as much of the range, so I think LG changed in 17 to cater to these reviewers. I prefer the stay bright, and just clip what you can't show method to be honest.

I think he went from a B6 to a C7.

The LG 7 series implements tone-mapping that uses the static metadata to select a tone-mapping algorithm.
LG chose to preserve highlight detail but at the cost of lowering the overall picture level.


You can see these two curves in Vincent Teoh's review here:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled5...1705074461.htm






The curve used metadata max luminance of 1000 nits
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...397916&thumb=1


The curve used metadata max luminance of 4000 nits
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...397918&thumb=1


Attached is an image of Batman V Superman: Left Sony, Middle LG, Right Panasonic.
The LG is the darkest because it darkens the image below 100 nits.


LG's Active HDR mitigates the problem by dynamically analyzing scenes and restore PQ EOTF tracking and it helps a lot.


If you have a Sony/Columbia UHD BD you can access test patterns my typing 7669 at the menu.
These patterns have static metadata of 10000 nits which is even more aggressive. The 100 nit bar pattern is clearly dark and nothing close the 100 nits because there is a ramp on the bottom that includes 10000 nits. In this case, the LG appears to fall-back to the aggressive tone-mapping and Active HDR does not change that.

Sony ignores the static metadata when dynamic tone-mapping (as it should). Static metadata is not consistent from title to title and there is no argument for two disks with the same scene displayed at different average picture level because they have different static metadata with dynamic tone-mapping engaged.


- Rich

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 03:36 PM

Thanks Rich for breaking it all down (again).

Now its a matter of what does the 2018 do...

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kibit86 (Post 56123926)
Imho, map the content in order to preserve every highlight details should be the main goal of an hdr display. Clipping all the detail over the max screen brightness is comparable to view a normal sdr content with the brightness maxed out. The question for me is: why directors are mastering content at the ridiculous peak of 4000nits? I don't want the sun into my set!

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A5010 utilizzando Tapatalk

Don't forget, we are only talking about the specular highlights. For me, if a display can do 800 nits, show 0 to 800 nits and clip the rest, do not dim down my 800 nits to show the 4000 nit detail in a sun or something at only 800 nits.

Or tone map to 1000 max or something. This is where Dolby Vision will be superior I assume.

I guess long story short, for now, run with Dyn Contrast enabled.

RichB 05-01-2018 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgtfreek (Post 56124182)
Don't forget, we are only talking about the specular highlights. For me, if a display can do 800 nits, show 0 to 800 nits and clip the rest, do not dim down my 800 nits to show the 4000 nit detail in a sun or something at only 800 nits.

Or tone map to 1000 max or something. This is where Dolby Vision will be superior I assume.

I guess long story short, for now, run with Dyn Contrast enabled.

Dolby Vision has had birthing problems but when it works, it looks great.


Hopefully, Vincent Teoh's 77C8 review will include PQ-EOTF tracking measurements at 1000 and 4000 nits with and without Active HDR engaged.


- Rich

gadgtfreek 05-01-2018 04:46 PM

Yeah, I am looking forward to his reviews. I figure I have about 30 days to decide before I buy something.

chrish713 05-01-2018 05:05 PM

I actually have a couple questions about this.. I am in the market for a new TV and have been eyeing up an OLED. BB has the 2017 55" B7a model for $1600. Or I can spend an extra hundred and get the C7 model. What exactly is the difference? Is the hundred dollars worth it to upgrade? Also, would it benefit me to wait until the 2018 prices fall down and get that? I do a lot of gaming (Xbox One X) so I would use HDR constantly. I was reading that they changed HDR in the 18 models for game mode? I just don't want to wait haha. I would also buy the extended warranty (5 year) just because I don't want to take the chance with burn-in.

satboy 05-01-2018 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrish713 (Post 56124672)
I actually have a couple questions about this.. I am in the market for a new TV and have been eyeing up an OLED. BB has the 2017 55" B7a model for $1600. Or I can spend an extra hundred and get the C7 model. What exactly is the difference? Is the hundred dollars worth it to upgrade? Also, would it benefit me to wait until the 2018 prices fall down and get that? I do a lot of gaming (Xbox One X) so I would use HDR constantly. I was reading that they changed HDR in the 18 models for game mode? I just don't want to wait haha. I would also buy the extended warranty (5 year) just because I don't want to take the chance with burn-in.

Send Cleveland Plasma a PM and asking for forum pricing on the B7 / C7 / C8 55", you might find it's closer than you think.

I don't suggest the B7 if you are using the Tv speakers, if you use an external amp then the TV's are the same expect for bezel color / case.
If you use the TV speakers the Cx is ideal price wise and the Ex adds a soundbar like experience with picture on glass but I don't suggest it price wise.

Also here's a sneak peak at the C8 best settings and menus

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c8/settings

chrish713 05-01-2018 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satboy (Post 56125048)
Send Cleveland Plasma a PM and asking for forum pricing on the B7 / C7 / C8 55", you might find it's closer than you think.

I don't suggest the B7 if you are using the Tv speakers, if you use an external amp then the TV's are the same expect for bezel color / case.
If you use the TV speakers the Cx is ideal price wise and the Ex adds a soundbar like experience with picture on glass but I don't suggest it price wise.

Also here's a sneak peak at the C8 best settings and menus

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c8/settings

As far as the speakers go, I plan on using a 2.1 sound bar system. So would I be better off just saving the hundred dollars then? And thanks, I’ll PM him and see what he thinks.

rene2kx 05-01-2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 (Post 56122432)
If you have the time and patience then waiting until this Fall for the 8 Series prices to fall is probably the best bet (as they may fall quicker and deeper than last year's 7 series). But if you've been waiting and want to get a great TV for a smoking deal then buy a 7 series now.

It's slightly analogous to Intel's old Tick-Tock release schedule (minor-major upgrade years) and LG 2018 OLED's appear to be a Tick year and next year's 2019 top-emision panels appear to be a Tock year.

https://www.oled-info.com/dscc-lgd-w...tv-panels-2019

Where has it anywhere been confirmed that lg will move to top emission next year? that 'article' you link is anything but conclusive, all speculation. lg was also supposed to employ a blue TADF emitter, as opposed to the weaker organic blue material they're using now which has a questionable lifetime. but that hasnt happened either so far. with top emission, you could see an oled hitting 1000 nits or higher in a 10% hdr window for the first time. but like i said, there is no confirmation of that happening next year, these tv's go several months before into production. these 'tick tock' intel kinda analogies are just made up, lg doesnt follow any tick tock cycles.


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