2018 HDTVTest TV Shootout: AF8, C8 & FZ OLED vs Q9FN QLED July 15th - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
MiniLED backlights with thousands of zones, microLED, emissive quantum dot displays, all many years from market, and performance of these in a consumer-priced form is uncertain. It's all wolf tickets at this point. On the other hand, right now, today, you can walk in a store, for a reasonable amount of money, and buy an OLED with perfect blacks, excellent pixel response time, per-pixel dimming, and decent peak brightness in HDR. Meanwhile today's LCD FALD flagships still suffer from the same flaws that the FALD flagships a decade ago suffered from. The technology is fundamentally flawed.

I'm not saying that OLED is perfect. LG needs to push brightness and the near-black uniformity can be aggravating. But it's the clear winner in the premium space, for now.
It sure is. Not even close, really. Anyone that was into plasma before will immediately like OLED. Agree that LG needs to tweak things a bit and there is always room for improvement. But, if my current set was the last TV available and I had to live with it for the rest of my life I would be OK with it. Still got 3D too.

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post #332 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 04:53 AM
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No deflection, but thanks for the accusation.

I'm on the side of innovation because nothing currently is good enough and ticks every box. Children "pick sides". If oled fixes burn in and eliminates abl(like my oled phone), then I'd be sure to jump on. And If lcd innovates perfect blacks that's cool too.
I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed (ex a couple of members on both "sides") that any technology checks all the boxes or that they don't have their strengths. I just don't understand the quick pivot from discussing the results to technology that isn't available on the consumer market. The "burn-in" argument is old, reminds me of the great plasma v lcd debates - When all else fails go for the burn-in card.

Hard to dispute that OLED is king of the hill today, I own both types of displays, enjoy them both, but I'm sure you can guess which one is used in my HT Apologies if my deflection comment offended you, as members of AVS we are all interested in innovation, but that's not what this thread is about.
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post #333 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
I don't think anyone on this forum has claimed (ex a couple of members on both "sides") that any technology checks all the boxes or that they don't have their strengths. I just don't understand the quick pivot from discussing the results to technology that isn't available on the consumer market. The "burn-in" argument is old, reminds me of the great plasma v lcd debates - When all else fails go for the burn-in card.

Hard to dispute that OLED is king of the hill today, I own both types of displays, enjoy them both, but I'm sure you can guess which one is used in my HT Apologies if my deflection comment offended you, as members of AVS we are all interested in innovation, but that's not what this thread is about.
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post #334 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
I just don't understand the quick pivot from discussing the results to technology that isn't available on the consumer market.
I do not see attempts to distract from the fact that the OLEDs won. That is not something posters do, it is something manufacturers do, in fact Samsung did.

The Shootout is done, we know the results, it is not even a US Shootout so not that much excitement and not that much to talk about left. The mini LED ''revolution'' is starting right now which is very exciting for TV fans. Current LCDs are not able to beat OLED in a Shootout mini LED FALDs might change that. So lots to talks about. btw the Sony Z9F LCD will be in the US Shootout. It probably is not but it might as well could be a mini LED FALD because that is how fast things can move.
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post #335 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 10:13 AM
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Unless brightness suddenly takes a new dominant position in the shootout criteria, the best those miniLEDs will likely achieve against OLED is a tie (and the open question of viewing angle hasn't yet been answered either).
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post #336 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Unless brightness suddenly takes a new dominant position in the shootout criteria, the best those miniLEDs will likely achieve against OLED is a tie (and the open question of viewing angle hasn't yet been answered either).
It would be nice if there was actually a competition between TV techs at those Shootouts. The Plasma's always won and now the OLEDs always win...there is no excitement in that.
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post #337 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
It would be nice if there was actually a competition between TV techs at those Shootouts. The Plasma's always won and now the OLEDs always win...there is no excitement in that.

Well if someone would offer competing technology then there would be. But plasma is dead, and no current LCD can match OLED, so at least this year there is no competition. Maybe next year or the year after that.
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post #338 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Unless brightness suddenly takes a new dominant position in the shootout criteria, the best those miniLEDs will likely achieve against OLED is a tie (and the open question of viewing angle hasn't yet been answered either).
I honestly believe that those ''in control'' made brightness somewhat less relevant because they want best blacks to win always. Best blacks always have won. It is the most important element in picture quality and HDR is not going to change that.
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post #339 of 514 Old 07-20-2018, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I honestly believe that those ''in control'' made brightness somewhat less relevant because they want best blacks to win always. Best blacks always have won. It is the most important element in picture quality and HDR is not going to change that.
Always has won the display with the best perceived contrast. Contrast is very similar to Dynamic Range.

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post #340 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 02:26 AM
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Motion, upscaling, near-black shadow detail, and color gradation are the strengths for Sony.


So if most of your viewing is Sports, 720p/1080i TV shows, and Movies then go with Sony... best "Living Room TV" makes sense in that regard as a category since it covers the largest variety of normal usage.


Sony was #2 in both the "Best Home Theater" and "Best Overall TV" categories behind the Panasonic.
Not in both ...

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post #341 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 03:33 AM
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Sorry if this was already posted, but should the Value Electronics shootout be soon? Seems like it is usually around this time of year, but have seen nothing about it, since early April. Thanks!

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post #342 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
Sorry if this was already posted, but should the Value Electronics shootout be soon? Seems like it is usually around this time of year, but have seen nothing about it, since early April. Thanks!
Moved it to fall so the new Sony would be available - hopefully.

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post #343 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 09:22 AM
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Not in both ...

Awards
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Best Home Theatre TV: 1st Panasonic FZ802 (14.93 pts); 2nd Sony AF8 (14.27 pts)
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Best Gaming TV: 1st Samsung Q9FN (4.23 pts); 2nd LG C8 (4.10 pts)
Best HDR TV: 1st LG C8 (4.15 pts); 2nd Panasonic FZ802 (4.13 pts)

Best TV of 2018: 1st Panasonic FZ802 (32.59 pts); 2nd LG C8 (31.49 pts)
how can lg be number 2 ,it came in first on 1 cag, and did not come in second in any ,

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post #344 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
Sorry if this was already posted, but should the Value Electronics shootout be soon? Seems like it is usually around this time of year, but have seen nothing about it, since early April. Thanks!
End of September since they are including the Sony 9AF

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post #345 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
how can lg be number 2 ,it came in first on 1 cag, and did not come in second in any ,
You have to ask? Add up the points and there you go. We had been told that scoring margins where very small, so it’s not surprising to see consistency across categories make a difference. Superior processing only gets you so far

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post #346 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 09:39 AM
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^But Lucky Goldstar!
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post #347 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
how can lg be number 2
The answer is in the post you quoted. Its total score was 31.49, which was the 2nd-highest total score.

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Originally Posted by Dave Scurrah View Post
it came in first on 1 cag, and did not come in second in any ,
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EDIT: sorry, I haven't seen that @smurraybhm had already answered.

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post #348 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
Sorry if this was already posted, but should the Value Electronics shootout be soon? Seems like it is usually around this time of year, but have seen nothing about it, since early April. Thanks!
Think Sony may be able to take the crown from LG this year if their new processor is amazing as we are hearing.
Can’t wait to see the A9F.
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post #349 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 08:07 PM
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For the fan/enthusiast portion of these events, the only way that any of these opinions/gradings are going to be objective and free of bias, is if these panels are hidden by a black outer shell and only the screens are visible. Label them 1 thru 4 or 1 thru 6(depending how many tv are being tested).
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post #350 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 10:09 PM
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For the fan/enthusiast portion of these events, the only way that any of these opinions/gradings are going to be objective and free of bias, is if these panels are hidden by a black outer shell and only the screens are visible. Label them 1 thru 4 or 1 thru 6(depending how many tv are being tested).
Is easy to know which one is Oled or LCD, this can only be successful with audio.
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post #351 of 514 Old 07-21-2018, 10:35 PM
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For the fan/enthusiast portion of these events, the only way that any of these opinions/gradings are going to be objective and free of bias, is if these panels are hidden by a black outer shell and only the screens are visible. Label them 1 thru 4 or 1 thru 6(depending how many tv are being tested).
This really wouldn't work as when switching between input/resolution/sources the GUI would overlay over each respective TV. If you're into this stuff, then you know what each brand's menu system looks like.

Seeing these always makes me mad that Panasonic still won't sell stuff to us Americans. I love my A1E but...
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^excellent point.
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post #353 of 514 Old 07-22-2018, 12:34 AM
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This really wouldn't work as when switching between input/resolution/sources the GUI would overlay over each respective TV. If you're into this stuff, then you know what each brand's menu system looks like.

Seeing these always makes me mad that Panasonic still won't sell stuff to us Americans. I love my A1E but...
That's a great point, I wonder if there could be some work-around for that.

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post #354 of 514 Old 07-22-2018, 12:59 AM
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The most obvious will be Off axis viewing.
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That's a great point, I wonder if there could be some work-around for that.


Philips put on something last year doing exactly what you guys are talking about.

https://www.avforums.com/news/philip...shootout.14195


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Philips put on something last year doing exactly what you guys are talking about.

https://www.avforums.com/news/philip...shootout.14195


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A event sponsored by Phillips where the Phillips cane out the winner absolutely shocking .


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A event sponsored by Phillips where the Phillips cane out the winner absolutely shocking .


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I didn’t post for the results but for the methodology.


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post #358 of 514 Old 07-22-2018, 05:49 AM
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2018 HDTVTest TV Shootout: AF8, C8 & FZ OLED vs Q9FN QLED July 15th

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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post
I didn’t post for the results but for the methodology.


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If you read the article it’s a Phillips sales pitch a pretty shameless one at that. They lost me when they were hyping the vivid picture mode with all the processing turned on lol

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post #359 of 514 Old 07-22-2018, 05:51 AM
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If you read the article it’s a Phillips sales pitch a pretty shameless one at that.


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I read the article....The poster was asking how to remove bias from testing TVs and in the article they talk about how they did that. Same size screens, level, bezels and back covered, cover the screens when sources are changed. How does whoever put it on change those facts?


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post #360 of 514 Old 07-22-2018, 05:54 AM
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2018 HDTVTest TV Shootout: AF8, C8 & FZ OLED vs Q9FN QLED July 15th

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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post
I read the article....The poster was asking how to remove bias from testing TVs and in the article they talk about how they did that. Same size screens, level, bezels and back covered, cover the screens when sources are changed. How does whoever put it on change those facts?


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You don’t find it suspicious at all that Phillips sponsored the event gave away a Phillips prize at the end and swept the awards ? I have some prime real estate I would like to sell you lol. Also they set the criteria for the event by including a vivid mode category .

The idea itself has merit but an event sponsored by a tv manufacturer reeks of a different type of bias . This stuff starts every year when shootout results don’t go the way people would like them .


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