Sony Master Series A9F OLED and Z9F LED-LCD 4K HDR TVs Debut - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jsessler View Post
With statements like that, you must be a LG owner. This isn't a "my dad can beat up your dad" conversation, we're just discussing the facts of the matter.
The problem being you are a bit light on the actual facts - everything you say is pure conjecture, dressed up as facts.
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post #1052 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jsessler View Post
With statements like that, you must be a LG owner. This isn't a "my dad can beat up your dad" conversation, we're just discussing the facts of the matter.
Low end and OLED are two words that don't currently go together. All OLEDs are strictly premium market tvs that cost a lot more than most other tvs at their respective sizes. Lowest cost Porsche is still a very expensive car.
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post #1053 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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I don't know that LGD, or LGE or that matter, does any binning other than "defective? Yes/no." In the uniformity threads, Sony is not immune. There are more LGs sold so they have more posts, but it's hard to prove any panel binning is happening (even within a brand, like B7 vs C7). All media reports say the entire line uses the same panel.
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post #1054 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 09:30 PM
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post #1055 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
The problem being you are a bit light on the actual facts - everything you say is pure conjecture, dressed up as facts.
I'm not sure what other facts you'd like. I'm sharing this data from industry analyst reports. This isn't about if one is better or worse than the other. It's data on market share, and it is what it is. Instead of turning this into a personal attack, I encourage you to do the same research including looking at the analyst reports.
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post #1056 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
Low end and OLED are two words that don't currently go together. All OLEDs are strictly premium market tvs that cost a lot more than most other tvs at their respective sizes. Lowest cost Porsche is still a very expensive car.
Value, budget, entry-level - pick whatever works better. For any technology, including OLED, there will be a range of offerings from the entry-level to premium. That said, a "value" OLED could in fact be better than a premium product using another technology e.g. LCD.

As for the Porsche analogy. A Cayman is about $55k which isn't a whole lot of money - it's a entry-level product after all. It's a very different Porsche than an $180k 911 with all of it's higher-end parts and technology.
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post #1057 of 2319 Old 08-13-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
I don't know that LGD, or LGE or that matter, does any binning other than "defective? Yes/no." In the uniformity threads, Sony is not immune. There are more LGs sold so they have more posts, but it's hard to prove any panel binning is happening (even within a brand, like B7 vs C7). All media reports say the entire line uses the same panel.
LGD does bin display modules. It’s standard practice.
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post #1058 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 01:40 AM
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LGD does bin display modules. It’s standard practice.
every big manfactor has to... im sure there isnt a huge variance between say the W and the b series but there is some... im going to guess there is as well between the a8 and a9... maybe thats how they can drive the panel harder with a less aggressive abl? less fear of burn in ? or just as simple as less uniformity issues. who knows


either way the X1U to me is worth the upgrade what ever month it comes out
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post #1059 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I'll just place this here.....

Brightest TV ever tested by RTINGS. (Vizio PQ65)

Review will be published tomorrow.

no.... maybe in an affordable size... Vincent measured 2900 + out of the zd9 100 inch.

the 100 inch model is a completely different beast then the smaller sizes

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post #1060 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 04:23 AM
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very little sony talk anymore.....
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post #1061 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 05:13 AM
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Still don't see clear reference to uniformity improvements in the official web page. For the intended target, this seems strange.

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post #1062 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Still don't see clear reference to uniformity improvements in the official web page. For the intended target, this seems strange.
''The Master Series is precisely calibrated at the factory for white balance and uniformity...''


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post #1063 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
''The Master Series is precisely calibrated at the factory for white balance and uniformity...''



Jeeze I hope so .... any thoughts out there as to wether or not this could include pink and yellow 'staining' blobs.
Are these flaws as effectively addressed as straight up banding?
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post #1064 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 07:41 AM
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33W less power consumption on the 75Z9F compared to the 75Z9D. That's not happening with "more" LEDs. Also noted HDCP 2.3 listed for the HDMI ports.

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post #1065 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by unknownuser200 View Post
no.... maybe in an affordable size... Vincent measured 2900 + out of the zd9 100 inch.

the 100 inch model is a completely different beast then the smaller sizes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu3JDZ4hxuk
Which is why I specifically said by RTINGS. It makes sense that the larger TV will be brighter since the window being measured is larger. Also the RTINGS measured nits are calibrated to 6500K so in VIVID PIC mode using the cool color temp would likely yield more.

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post #1066 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 08:37 AM
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HAHAH! I read it as Sony with 300k panels and LG 500k panels. Globally they will sell more than 300 , but I was just thinking about US market. We can all agree we see the A1E as the volume seller. I hope the A9F has trenmendous success in the tens of thousands and that could hold true since Magnolia will play a big part in buying most of that stock. That’s really how they sell their units.
At least we still have options
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post #1067 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Still don't see clear reference to uniformity improvements in the official web page. For the intended target, this seems strange.
''The Master Series is precisely calibrated at the factory for white balance and uniformity...''


yeah, I read that. I was hoping for more details. In the technological advancements thread there are hypothesis that it only has to do with color uniformity for all parts of the screen.

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post #1068 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
33W less power consumption on the 75Z9F compared to the 75Z9D. That's not happening with "more" LEDs. Also noted HDCP 2.3 listed for the HDMI ports.
Too many variables to judge that. Could be just more effieient. 2016/17 P65 with 128 zones 255 watts, 2018 P65 with 100 zones is 231 watts and 2018 PQ65 has 192 zones with 240 watts..... I dunno

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post #1069 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:37 AM
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The specs of the quantum Vizio are INSANE. If Vizio can deliver that brightness along with a fantastic contrast ratio, I can't see why Sony would be unable to hit extreme nit levels on the Z9F.
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post #1070 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Which is why I specifically said by RTINGS. It makes sense that the larger TV will be brighter since the window being measured is larger. Also the RTINGS measured nits are calibrated to 6500K so in VIVID PIC mode using the cool color temp would likely yield more.
The size of the display doesn't impact nits. A 600 nit 65-inch display and a 600 nit iPhone X will look equally bright to the same user.

I suspect a more important measurement will be sustained nits. That is, how long can these panels sustain the high output before dialing back to protect the panel and/or greatly impacting its longevity e.g. faster burn-in/down.
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post #1071 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
33W less power consumption on the 75Z9F compared to the 75Z9D. That's not happening with "more" LEDs. Also noted HDCP 2.3 listed for the HDMI ports.
Sure it could. They could be using more LEDs and those LEDs are more efficient. They might not be measuring under the exact same conditions. There are lots of possibilities to explain a drop in power consumption that don't automatically equate to less zones / LEDs. Then again, it could have less LEDs and have less zones. No one knows yet.
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post #1072 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:43 AM
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Also 2 years in electronics revolution is affecting the power consumption also and normally in everything is going lower
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post #1073 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:48 AM
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I did point this out earlier in the thread but the 75-inch Z9F is even lighter than the 75-inch Q9FN even though the Q9FN doesn't have the inputs on the back of the TV. That's very interesting.
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post #1074 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Too many variables to judge that. Could be just more effieient. 2016/17 P65 with 128 zones 255 watts, 2018 P65 with 100 zones is 231 watts and 2018 PQ65 has 192 zones with 240 watts..... I dunno
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Sure it could. They could be using more LEDs and those LEDs are more efficient. They might not be measuring under the exact same conditions. There are lots of possibilities to explain a drop in power consumption that don't automatically equate to less zones / LEDs. Then again, it could have less LEDs and have less zones. No one knows yet.
Good points and I should not have been as definitive in my statement. Try this again, the lower power rating lends support to the suspicion of fewer zones...time will tell.


That being said, in no way did I say it meant the Z9F is a lesser performing TV...that is clearly, yet to be determined.
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post #1075 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jsessler View Post
The size of the display doesn't impact nits. A 600 nit 65-inch display and a 600 nit iPhone X will look equally bright to the same user.

I suspect a more important measurement will be sustained nits. That is, how long can these panels sustain the high output before dialing back to protect the panel and/or greatly impacting its longevity e.g. faster burn-in/down.
I guess I spoke incorrectly.... But to say a 65" TV putting out 600nits will look equal to the IPX that is incorrect. The amount of lumens off the TV will be far greater.

RTINGS posted the review for the PQ and it did fantastic. Too bad its only available in 65". With that said, the Z9F is still the TV I look forward to.

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post #1076 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 10:39 AM
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The size of the display doesn't impact nits. A 600 nit 65-inch display and a 600 nit iPhone X will look equally bright to the same user.
That's not necessarily true. It depends on how much of your FoV each display takes up and the conditions under which each is viewed.
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post #1077 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by thisbryanguy001 View Post
The specs of the quantum Vizio are INSANE. If Vizio can deliver that brightness along with a fantastic contrast ratio, I can't see why Sony would be unable to hit extreme nit levels on the Z9F.

Yes Insane specs but worse black levels with HDR. Gotta improve the precision if you're going to also increase the nits. Hopefully the Z9F will improve both from the Z9D.
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post #1078 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 02:54 PM
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The new Vizio appears to be an option for budget conscious movie watchers or gamers, but I would not put it in the same class as flagship TVs from the big 3, regardless of rtings ridiculous 8.6 overall score. It is still saddled with a poor OS and app support, subpar build quality, upscaling, and gradient, a budget remote with no voice support, and 1 USB 2.0 port. These features are not important to some people, but, taken as a whole, they are deal breakers for me. The Z9D easily bests it overall IMHO, let alone the Z9F. Just my opinion.
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post #1079 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 02:59 PM
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Subscribing because of reasons.

Spoiler!
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post #1080 of 2319 Old 08-14-2018, 03:01 PM
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I apologize for going off topic. Sony's apparent commitment to quality is fantastic on paper. If they really put it into practice, it should force other manufacturers to implement similar QC measures, which would be a huge win for all consumers.
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