Sony Master Series A9F OLED and Z9F LED-LCD 4K HDR TVs Debut - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 07:46 AM
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Another Archer article I missed not from Forbes. Read carefully and make your own opinions.
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...g-q9fn-3527002

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post #1442 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 07:49 AM
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And this one up against the Z9D but it’s more speculative
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...erence-3523377

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post #1443 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post
My understanding was that the ZF9 was demoed in darkened, but not pitch black conditions. Nevertheless, it’s curious that things were set up in such a way as to partially hide black level issues. I don’t know if that was the intention.
Yeah, my wording might have been too strong to say "bright." Perhaps "relatively bright" or "less dark" would have been better. The translation of the guy who was there says, "The OLED was operated in the dark room, the LCD stood in a fairly bright room."
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post #1444 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 09:02 AM
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Let's hope Vincent will do a side by side comparison with the Sony ZD9 and the Samsung Q9 so that prospective buyers can see the differences
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post #1445 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chasteven View Post

Let's hope Vincent will do a side by side comparison with the Sony ZD9 and the Samsung Q9 so that prospective buyers can see the differences
You mean Sony ZF9

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post #1446 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I couldn’t agree more. I haven’t visited the display threads in quite some time simply because I’ve been so happy with my 77” G7. I’ve discovered when you’re happy, no truly happy with what you have, you have much less desire to enter into the fray. You actually spend time watching the display rather than arguing about stands, spectral highlights, motion processing, etc.
Hey Ken, it's good to hear from you! I am truly happy for you and I can't wait until I reach "Video Nirvana!" Now that one can buy an LG 77" OLED for 8K I should probably take the plunge. The Sony OLEDs look very good as well, but their cost is 2K more due to their built-in audio system, which I do NOT need.
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post #1447 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 10:24 AM
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Sorry I should have made clear a comparison between the new ZF9 and the ZD9 and Samsung Q9
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post #1448 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Amadeuz View Post

I don't care what anyone say I will get my Sony AF9 OLED tv and blast it loud and clear so that the neighbor brings out his stick again and gives compliments by knocking his stick through the wall. Yes I am very exited about the sound of the tv, because I know the picture will be great anyway. And in here we have guys talking about the lcd tv all the time and zones wtf ! Just chill relax and wait for release so we can test it all by our self
Yes everyone has different needs , I actually could care less about the sound since I have my sets hooked up to my surround sound always. Don't care about stands either, as I wall mount every tv and also some really care about OS, another option that is not important to me as my cable box already has Netflix, YouTube built in and that's what I mainly use the apps for. My HTPC takes care of everything else.

My main and #1 concern is always picture quality, this Sony AF9 is in my top 3 contenders for my next upgrade purchase next year. With the new processor, it has to be an upgrade to current Sony Oleds.

As for the Sony Z9F, does not intrigue me in any way.
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post #1449 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
Yeah, that's correct on 940C vs 940D zone count.

I really wonder if the dramatic lowering of the zone count from the Z9D to Z9F is because of the uniformity calibration - Perhaps it's just ridiculously expensive/not possible to guarantee such a uniform image on an LCD panel with large zone counts.
I suspect the contrary, actually. One of the easiest ways of improving screen uniformity on a locally dimmed TV is to calibrate the individual zones (or individual LEDs for the Z9D) to render a more uniform image than one otherwise would have. It is no cure-all, but it does greatly reduce the visible effects of banding and mura. So wouldn't more zones translate into more finely grained control of the screen unformity? That's my thinking, anyway.

I suspect the lower zone count this year is a combination of (1) "We have an OLED to offer now, so let's not undermine it," and (2) "We took an absolute bath on prices for the Z9D last time around; let's find a way to price this new one within more people's budgets." This is only my suspicion, mind you--in the end, I really have no idea why the Sony people chose what they chose.

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post #1450 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
The 940C had 128 zones but the 940D has 96.

I must say though that I am still amazed how well the 940D does for being a 75" display and only having 96 zones. If not for occasional blooming/clouding in the letter-boxed bars (this is especially so when watching 4K movies with HDR) and some haloing inside the main screen, the blacks are normally close to OLED blacks if you are watching a good source. For example, in my UHD copy of The Revenant, the blacks are spectacular except for the scene when they are walking through the woods with torches...in that shot there is some light bleeding into the bars.

If you have never read Vincent's (from HDTVTest) review on the 940D you should read it. He too was amazed at the black levels for only having 96 zones. He attributed it mainly to Sony's amazing algorithms.

Having said this, my former display was the Pioneer Elite PRO Kuro which had zero blooming/halos so I am spoiled and won't be satisfied until I have a giant display with perfect blacks! I guess that means I go with an OLED or with the future Micro-LED!!

A TV like the 940d no longer has any application in 2018. It's easier to control bloom on a 900 nit lcd. Put 96 zones on a 1500-2000 nit 75" TV and it'll be a disaster. No algorithms are fixing that.
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post #1451 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
A TV like the 940d no longer has any application in 2018. It's easier to control bloom on a 900 nit lcd. Put 96 zones on a 1500-2000 nit 75" TV and it'll be a disaster. No algorithms are fixing that.
With all due respect, I never said (or implied) that the 940D "has any application in 2018."

Having said that, there are still 940D owners (like myself) who appreciate the fact that it has "respectable" blacks EXCEPT for the issue with blooming/halos. I realize that "it's easier to control bloom on a 900 nit lcd" but I have seen countless LCDs (in showrooms and in private homes) throughout the years with horrendous blooming/halos, and this is in displays with a much lower count than 900 nits. So, my hat goes off to Sony for making, in 2016, an LCD/LED display that was capable of producing deep blacks with only occasional blooming/clouding/haloing with only 96 zones for local dimming. Vincent and others attribute that to Sony's excellent algorithms.
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post #1452 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 01:02 PM
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I think Sony has more up it's sleeve than meets the eye. You don't show a prototype 85" 8K, 10,000 nit display at CES and then "abandon" the high nit category. I am getting more convinced (if all the numbers are true) that this "Z9F" is "really" the 940E replacement and they either couldn't display it at CES due to something not quite being ready (the testing/coding of the X1U, or the "optics" of the X-Wide display) or strategically decided not to display it for reasons unknown. When we get official pricing we might get a better idea of where this stands. By releasing it as the Z's successor they can charge more than if they had released it as the 940E successor but make it look like a bargain compared to the Z9D and as long as it performs well enough compared to the Samsung (which could have been part of their strategic release timing) then they win while they perfect the true Z9D replacement that they release after Samsung's Q9S.


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post #1453 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 01:13 PM
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post #1454 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
I think Sony has more up it's sleeve than meets the eye. You don't show a prototype 85" 8K, 10,000 nit display at CES and then "abandon" the high nit category. I am getting more convinced (if all the numbers are true) that this "Z9F" is "really" the 940E replacement and they either couldn't display it at CES due to something not quite being ready (the testing/coding of the X1U, or the "optics" of the X-Wide display) or strategically decided not to display it for reasons unknown. When we get official pricing we might get a better idea of where this stands. By releasing it as the Z's successor they can charge more than if they had released it as the 940E successor but make it look like a bargain compared to the Z9D and as long as it performs well enough compared to the Samsung (which could have been part of their strategic release timing) then they win while they perfect the true Z9D replacement that they release after Samsung's Q9S.


Just some random thoughts...
dang, seems like we've already entered the bargaining stage of depression before it's even released. lol.
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post #1455 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 01:35 PM
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Im sitting patiently waiting for first reviews from respectable people.
In no way i believe this new model will be worse than the zd9 after 2 years of Sony development.
For me the No1 is picture accuracy and quality and i dont step info the nits banana. My zd9 is blindly bright and even if i never regret and I'm happy for my demostore purchase i was ready for a oled but the price was overkill to bypass it and i never regret it.
I believe that the z9f will have the best uniformity and perfect calibration ability among q9,zd9,oleds and im willing to sacrifice a bit off blacks on this. My gut tells me that there must be some evolution in the panel that you dont need the zones of the zd9 to have good blacks.

Offcourse i can be total wrong lol so im keeping my zd9 for another year at least.
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post #1456 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 02:04 PM
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I may be tempted by the new SONY OLED (55") if the picture is as good as or better than my 55C7
I could really make use of the center channel feature
That center channel speaker is a nice feature........

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
Yeah, that's correct on 940C vs 940D zone count.
I really wonder if the dramatic lowering of the zone count from the Z9D to Z9F is because of the uniformity calibration - Perhaps it's just ridiculously expensive/not possible to guarantee such a uniform image on an LCD panel with large zone counts.
There seems to be a hidden reason to do things.
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post #1457 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 02:11 PM
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Another early pre-review on a German magazine web site, 4Kfilme.de. Also confirms the Z9F is 104 zones and 1500 nits. No details provided on how these numbers were obtained. Here is a google translate link. Sony press conference at IFA is Thursday Aug. 30 at 1pm Berlin time (right after Samsung).

https://translate.googleusercontent....P_o5EhJ_e3GSPg

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post #1458 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BreakPoint View Post
Another early pre-review on a German magazine web site, 4Kfilme.de. Also confirms the Z9F is 104 zones and 1500 nits. No details provided on how these numbers were obtained. Here is a google translate link. Sony press conference at IFA is Thursday Aug. 30 at 1pm Berlin time (right after Samsung).

https://translate.googleusercontent....P_o5EhJ_e3GSPg
Good stuff. Pics show the "wide stance" feet so they can sell their soundbar and how bright/not dark the room was

Z9F Light room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...wide-angle.jpg
Z9F Dark room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...chwarzwert.jpg
More pics at the article...
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post #1459 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
dang, seems like we've already entered the bargaining stage of depression before it's even released. lol.


There is no way some would spend that much RnD and shelve the project for this mid range LCD to compete with Vizio (and maybe loose).

The must have a ultimate series or z10 coming with master backlight .

Or Sony sold so few z9d it was simply not worth to continue. All they had to do was as the new chip and a less then crappy remote and people would have been happy.
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post #1460 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 03:00 PM
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not sure if this was posted but they will be live steaming at IFA maybe a few questions might be answered
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post #1461 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
Good stuff. Pics show the "wide stance" feet so they can sell their soundbar and how bright/not dark the room was

Z9F Light room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...wide-angle.jpg
Z9F Dark room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...chwarzwert.jpg
More pics at the article...
That wide angle view looks fantastic. Brightness looks great. If uniformity is up to snuff and blacks are good, I'm not sure I'll care about how many zones it has or what the peak brightness is. Every thing I've seen so far looks very good so I'm not giving up hope on Sony just yet.
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post #1462 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MJDDawg View Post
That wide angle view looks fantastic. Brightness looks great. If uniformity is up to snuff and blacks are good, I'm not sure I'll care about how many zones it has or what the peak brightness is. Every thing I've seen so far looks very good so I'm not giving up hope on Sony just yet.
Agreed, I pray that calibrated uniformity is a real thing. They can raise blacks a bit and make the TV a bit dimmer and I genuinely wouldn't care.
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post #1463 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
dang, seems like we've already entered the bargaining stage of depression before it's even released. lol.
Nah, I got no dog in this fight....I have no need for a new TV. Just spitballin'.

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Man this TV is less interesting with this updated info.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #1465 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 04:16 PM
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If you want to share pricing and where to buy, please take the discussion to this sticky:

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post #1466 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 04:16 PM
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Man this TV is less interesting with this updated info.

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Originally Posted by BreakPoint View Post
Another early pre-review on a German magazine web site, 4Kfilme.de. Also confirms the Z9F is 104 zones and 1500 nits. No details provided on how these numbers were obtained. Here is a google translate link. Sony press conference at IFA is Thursday Aug. 30 at 1pm Berlin time (right after Samsung).

https://translate.googleusercontent....P_o5EhJ_e3GSPg
They were at that event in Leibzig Germany what we are talking about...were Christian Trozinski took a closer look at the Master Series and counted the zones. So no confirmation just repeating what Trozinski stated.
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post #1468 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 05:23 PM
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'O ye, of little faith.
I'm waiting..... No doubt. I may have to wait for a 75" Vizio PQ.

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post #1469 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
Good stuff. Pics show the "wide stance" feet so they can sell their soundbar and how bright/not dark the room was

Z9F Light room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...wide-angle.jpg
Z9F Dark room: https://www.4kfilme.de/wp-content/up...chwarzwert.jpg
More pics at the article...
This was the german Sony presentation in which the OLED was in the dark room and the LCD in the lesser dark room. So it was not fully dark there.

..as you can see such room cannot be fully darkened...it was probably a situation were they turned the lights off.
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post #1470 of 2319 Old 08-27-2018, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I'm waiting..... No doubt. I may have to wait for a 75" Vizio PQ.

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Is there supposed to be a 75" Vizio PQ coming?
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