Is there any reason to believe HDMI 2.1 tvs will launch in 2019? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 100 Old 10-19-2018, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Well if cable/satellite doesn't care to give us 1080, why would they care to give us 4k? Clearly they think we don't care one bit about picture quality.

Agree. Most people I know are perfectly happy with their old DVD players. Even know one person that bought a (cheap) 4K tv...but refuses to spent $$ on even a blu-ray player. So yea, the masses don't seem to care much about PQ , surly not as much as we here do on AVS.

8K...I imagine many folks here will embrace it early. And eventually we will all own 8K sets.

Wonder how far away 8K discs N players are...or even if they will be in a disc format.


But back to the HDMI 2.1 question. Found this 2 day old review of the new 8K Samsung...

Samsung Q900 8K review: The best HDR TV we've ever seen

"There are four HDMI inputs that support High Dynamic Range (HDR), Wide Colour Gamut (Rec.2020) and HDCP 2.2 to ensure compatibility with 4K content (although with no 8K content, whether a different handshake will be needed in the future is an unknown right now). You'll also find three USB ports (2x 2.0, 1x 3.0), twin terrestrial and satellite tuners, an optical digital output, a CI (Common Interface) slot, an external link for auto calibration, and a LAN port (there's also built-in Wi-Fi).

The HDMI ports are all version 2.0 and although the first input supports 8K/30p, the rest are limited to 4K/60p. To handle 8K/60p would require version HDMI 2.1, and Samsung has said that once it is rolled out, an upgrade for the One Connect box will be made available on request.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/revie...-q900-led-85in
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post #62 of 100 Old 10-19-2018, 05:43 PM
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Great an update for the box and if buyers are even extremely lucky they may get to watch a few minute clip in 8K in a year or so. This is why after some thought I'm holding off because all these sets even the present high-end 4K are overkill unless you are specifically using for movie viewing. For regular programs, series etc. as I mentioned before your lucky if the provider gives it to you in 720p so it's really meaningless. I'll give a classic example I've been watching a show on Dish with Penn & Teller called Fool Us. On my Sony 4K the picture has always been grainy and very soft. Not long ago I was playing with the channel selector on my set and found it on regular TV via my HD antenna. The picture was much much sharper and clearer and although certainly not even 720p was markedly better than the crap coming through my satellite dish. So why buy a high-end car if you're going to haul garbage in it.
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post #63 of 100 Old 10-22-2018, 08:06 AM
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I guess I am lucky my cable provider seems to actually pass the signal through mostly intact. 1080i is 1080i, 720p is 720p. Generally looks pretty good. They even offer a couple of 4k channels if I paid for it and got the higher end set top box.

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post #64 of 100 Old 10-23-2018, 10:59 AM
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post #65 of 100 Old 11-17-2018, 03:52 PM
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I would be surprised if HDMI 2.1 is not included in any 2019 OLED TV. It is pretty much a given.


Although I am still sticking to upgrading my B6 by 2026 to a 8K TV. By 2021 I may buy a 2021 NVidia Shield as I expect LG to stop supporting webOS.
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post #66 of 100 Old 11-22-2018, 01:25 PM
 
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post #67 of 100 Old 11-22-2018, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
That's old news.

Synopsis released their complete HDMI 2.1 IP solution a year ago: https://markets.businessinsider.com/...ion-1010059616

As you can read in this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57042580 if LG only announced the selection of Synopsis HDMI 2.1 IP when they decided to commit to production (after having a completed and successfully-tested their design) rather than when they started working with the Synopsis IP (and were just starting their design), it's very possible that LGE already has a working SOC in production now in plenty of time for demonstration at CES in 2 months and release on LGE TV products in 2019.

It is very common in the semicnductor industry to announce use of IP only after it has been successfully teated and is being committed to production (with the royalty payments that triggers) rather than in the early phase when the IP is being teated and design is beginning to determine whether it delivers the promised functionality...

No need to debate the point further - CES is in two months so will will know soon enough (and just to be clear, I'm not statng that I know that LG will be releasing HDMI 2.1-enabled products in 2019, only that the LG/Synopsis press release from a few months ago does not translate to a 2019 release being impossible).
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post #68 of 100 Old 11-22-2018, 02:39 PM
 
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H2 2019 or 2020 is a possibility for some companies, you wont see 48gbps chipsets for tv's released april next year. that synopsis related article is not quite oled, it's just from september 2018, it's the first i read of lge having a partnership with them.
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post #69 of 100 Old 11-22-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
H2 2019 or 2020 is a possibility for some companies, you wont see 48gbps chipsets for tv's released april next year. that synopsis related article is not quite oled, it's just from september 2018, it's the first i read of lge having a partnership with them.
LG no longer purchases 3rd-party SOCs for their Premium TVs - they design and manufacture their own in-house SOCs (like Sony).

It is very possible that LGE will have their own in-house SOC with HDMI 2.1 capability before 3rd-party SOCs or chipsets are available.

The LG partnership ith Synopsis was announced only this September but LG could have started working with Synopsis' HDMI 2.1 IP any time after November 2017 when it was announced and released. Just because we only learned of LG's decision to use the Synopsis HDMI2.1 IP in Septmber does not mean that they had not already been working with it and testing it for as many as 10 months prior to that...
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post #70 of 100 Old 11-23-2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
LG no longer purchases 3rd-party SOCs for their Premium TVs - they design and manufacture their own in-house SOCs (like Sony).

It is very possible that LGE will have their own in-house SOC with HDMI 2.1 capability before 3rd-party SOCs or chipsets are available.

The LG partnership ith Synopsis was announced only this September but LG could have started working with Synopsis' HDMI 2.1 IP any time after November 2017 when it was announced and released. Just because we only learned of LG's decision to use the Synopsis HDMI2.1 IP in Septmber does not mean that they had not already been working with it and testing it for as many as 10 months prior to that...

As you advocating that LG is now building their own silicone, As far as I'm aware, LG doesn't own a foundry and I believe Intel was building silicone for them.
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post #71 of 100 Old 11-23-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenbar View Post

The HDMI ports are all version 2.0 and although the first input supports 8K/30p, the rest are limited to 4K/60p. To handle 8K/60p would require version HDMI 2.1, and Samsung has said that once it is rolled out, an upgrade for the One Connect box will be made available on request.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/revie...-q900-led-85in
While I don't think Samsung TVs are better than the brands I like - I really wish the brands I prefer would offer a onebox design for some of their flagship TVs. It makes wiring much easier and slims down the TV. Stuffing the electronics into a thick speaker stand that can't be removed or a ginormous dusnel sound bar that won't fit into a HT cabinet are absurd IMHO. Best of all this makes it easier for the manufacturer to upgrade.
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post #72 of 100 Old 11-24-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Antonio Amigo View Post
As you advocating that LG is now building their own silicone, As far as I'm aware, LG doesn't own a foundry and I believe Intel was building silicone for them.
It's not about who fabricates the SOCs, it's about who designs them. It's called the fabless semiconductor model and it had been in place for decades (and changed th world).

LG started using their own in-house designed SOCs on their higher-end 2016 WOLEDs (using an after-market SOC only on the lowest-end B6P).

In 2017, I believe they used the same in-house SOC for the entire WOLED lineup (as well as some higher-end LED/LCDs).

In 2018, LG introduced a lineup of 2 in-house SOCs, using the more powerful SOC on all WOLEDs but the B8 and using the slightly lesser-performing SOC on the B8P. I don't know what use LG made of these two in-house SOCs on their LED/LCD TVs, but suspect they showed up there as well.

LG is following the model pioneered by Sony (as far as Premium TVs), and while I'm not 100% certain because Sony does continue to have some in-house silicon manufacturing, I'd be surprised if Sony's SOCs are not manufactured by one of major foundries like TSMC or UMC...
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post #73 of 100 Old 11-29-2018, 01:11 PM
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Looks like some HDMI 2.1 products are on the verge of being released soon. Announcement of 48 gbps cables here:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13649...i-21-48g-cable

Never heard of this company but presumably they wouldn’t be prepping what will be costly cables unless they expect 2.1 gear soon.

Are all HDMI chipsets going to be capable of 48 gbps or is it going to be some inconsistent mess where different gear have different capabilities while all claiming to be HDMI 2.1?

Or is it only cables which will have different speed ratings?

Not sure if these cables will have some kind of certification. I thought HDMI Forum was requiring all products be tested if not certified?
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post #74 of 100 Old 01-03-2019, 01:20 PM
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LG TVs with HDMI are going to be released this year (2019)

See this link:

https://essentialinstall.com/news/ho...-hdmi-2-1-tvs/


Though I don't know why the 8K TVs are only up to 60 fps when 8K at 120 fps is in the next gen broadcast standard (or maybe it's a proposed DVB future standard in Europe and not ATSC 3.0 - I thought it was in the ATSC 3.0 wikipedia page at one time. I think 8K 120 fps is the format NHK is using/broadcasting in). The HDMI spec is also supposed to be able to transmit 8K at 120 fps but only with added compression Maybe the 8K TVs released in 2019 just don't have the processing power for 8k 120 fps even though the HDMI 2.1 supports it with compression. Maybe it will be TVs released in another year that will properly support the 8K specs (assuming it's not a mistake in the article).

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post #75 of 100 Old 01-03-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by eqzitara View Post
I have been waiting... and waiting to upgrade since I lock into a tv for 7 years so its a big deal to me. I have been waiting for any products with HDMI 2.1 chip to release in 2018 but nothing. What do you guys think 2019 or 2020.
Looks like 2019 is your answer:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...es-2019-a.html
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post #76 of 100 Old 01-03-2019, 03:01 PM
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AVR makers have to get on the ball.
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post #77 of 100 Old 01-04-2019, 09:12 AM
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AVR makers have to get on the ball.
Well the Denon X8500H supposedly should get access to an HDMI 2.1 board upgrade by July 2019 or so.

They are working on it, but the chips have to exist first before they can put them into the design.

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post #78 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 06:45 AM
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post #79 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 07:43 AM
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Consumers need to be careful here. Unlike in years past when a HDMI spec was all-encompassing (2.0b, for example), HDMI 2.1 is a list of features that are simply part of the spec but that aren’t all required to be adopted to advertise/market having the spec.

This is going to cause major confusion/frustration for consumers because they need to know what they need from a feature stand point (VRR, as an example, or support for compressed 4:4:4 12-bit HDR, etc) and then make sure each device in their chain supports that specific 2.1 feature. They won’t be able to simply look for a “HDMI 2.1” logo.

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post #80 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TrendSetterX View Post
Consumers need to be careful here. Unlike in years past when a HDMI spec was all-encompassing (2.0b, for example), HDMI 2.1 is a list of features that are simply part of the spec but that aren’t all required to be adopted to advertise/market having the spec.

This is going to cause major confusion/frustration for consumers because they need to know what they need from a feature stand point (VRR, as an example, or support for compressed 4:4:4 12-bit HDR, etc) and then make sure each device in their chain supports that specific 2.1 feature. They won’t be able to simply look for a “HDMI 2.1” logo.

I completely agree and have been saying as much for quite some time now. HDMI 2.1 is going to be considerably more smoke and mirrors than the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0 (and then to 2.0b). There are even cable mfrs now who have been advertising their "HDMI 2.1" cables since before the final specs were ratified and sent to the chip designers.


For hardcore gamers, a few "pieces" of the HDMI 2.1 hardware spec may be enough to increase their gaming experience but for most of the folks who aren't that serious of a gamer, they will just be confused and frustrated. And quite a lot of people still don't realize that it's the HDMI chipsets, not the cable, that makes a difference and that all of your devices, as pointed out above, need to have the same set of HDMI protocols for one to gain the benefit of "HDMI 2.1".



I feel sorry for the casual lurkers or brand new folks who hit AVS looking for quick answers. It seems like a lot of them are going to be seriously disappointed if they jump onto the HDMI 2.1 bandwagon without fulling understanding what it means. The device and cable mfrs are just wringing their hands at all of the potential sales this year from unsuspecting buyers.

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post #81 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I completely agree and have been saying as much for quite some time now. HDMI 2.1 is going to be considerably more smoke and mirrors than the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0 (and then to 2.0b). There are even cable mfrs now who have been advertising their "HDMI 2.1" cables since before the final specs were ratified and sent to the chip designers.


For hardcore gamers, a few "pieces" of the HDMI 2.1 hardware spec may be enough to increase their gaming experience but for most of the folks who aren't that serious of a gamer, they will just be confused and frustrated. And quite a lot of people still don't realize that it's the HDMI chipsets, not the cable, that makes a difference and that all of your devices, as pointed out above, need to have the same set of HDMI protocols for one to gain the benefit of "HDMI 2.1".



I feel sorry for the casual lurkers or brand new folks who hit AVS looking for quick answers. It seems like a lot of them are going to be seriously disappointed if they jump onto the HDMI 2.1 bandwagon without fulling understanding what it means. The device and cable mfrs are just wringing their hands at all of the potential sales this year from unsuspecting buyers.
Since the communication data rate is the most hard-coded element of HDMI 2.1 (pretty much all of the other features are a matter of firmware update if the communication bandwith is sufficient) that is the single most important element to be certain of before buying.

And since the HDMI 2.1 cables are already being calssified based on datarate to assure compatability, it would just be a matter of equipmemt vendors specifying 'Ultra HDMI2.1' (versus 'Premium HDMI2.1' to avoid confusion on this most important element:
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post #82 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

And since the HDMI 2.1 cables are already being calssified based on datarate to assure compatability, it would just be a matter of equipmemt vendors specifying 'Ultra HDMI2.1' (versus 'Premium HDMI2.1' to avoid confusion on this most important element:
Except it’s not. Once full blown 2.1 compression schemes are in effect, you’ll be able to use current generation 2.0 cables for long distance UHD 4:4:4 HDR 12-bit runs that aren’t supported today over the same cables.

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post #83 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 11:20 AM
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The problem is even if hdmi 2.1 is on the new oleds the newest $1200 Nvidia 2080ti does not support that ... so you can do maybe 2560x1440 I the 2.0 data cap at 120hz but not 2160p

Arg

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post #84 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Since the communication data rate is the most hard-coded element of HDMI 2.1 (pretty much all of the other features are a matter of firmware update if the communication bandwith is sufficient) that is the single most important element to be certain of before buying.

And since the HDMI 2.1 cables are already being calssified based on datarate to assure compatability, it would just be a matter of equipmemt vendors specifying 'Ultra HDMI2.1' (versus 'Premium HDMI2.1' to avoid confusion on this most important element:
I believe that HDMI.org has already designated "Ultra", when it comes to cables at least, for 48Gbps data rates to distinguish it from "Premium", which is the 18Gbps data rate and is the official designation for cable certification. Whether that designation is to be officially adopted by the device mfrs is yet to be seen. I certainly hope so.

HDMI 2.1 is going to be a bigger mess for the consumer than HDMI 2.0/2.0b is now.

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post #85 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 12:33 PM
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Except it’s not. Once full blown 2.1 compression schemes are in effect, you’ll be able to use current generation 2.0 cables for long distance UHD 4:4:4 HDR 12-bit runs that aren’t supported today over the same cables.
Exceedingly unlikely we're going to see anyone implementing DSC compression on 18Gbps chipsets...

And to the extent that does ever happen, the table I posted already offered a solution: HDMI 2.1 Premium* (since 48Gbps w/DSC has already been labelled HDMI 2.1 Ultra*)...
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post #86 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
The problem is even if hdmi 2.1 is on the new oleds the newest $1200 Nvidia 2080ti does not support that ... so you can do maybe 2560x1440 I the 2.0 data cap at 120hz but not 2160p

Arg
It's a temporary problem - by 2020 you'll have what you want (partly catayzed by LG's initiative to lead in 2019 ).
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post #87 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I believe that HDMI.org has already designated "Ultra", when it comes to cables at least, for 48Gbps data rates to distinguish it from "Premium", which is the 18Gbps data rate and is the official designation for cable certification. Whether that designation is to be officially adopted by the device mfrs is yet to be seen. I certainly hope so.

HDMI 2.1 is going to be a bigger mess for the consumer than HDMI 2.0/2.0b is now.
Me too. It'll be interesting to see how LG's marketing literature presents their 48Gbps HDMI2.1 (Ultra) capability...
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post #88 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 12:50 PM
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It's a temporary problem - by 2020 you'll have what you want (partly catayzed by LG's initiative to lead in 2019 ).


Dunno 1080 was a 4 year part

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post #89 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Me too. It'll be interesting to see how LG's marketing literature presents their 48Gbps HDMI2.1 (Ultra) capability...

Yep. It's not only LG's marketing that is going muddy the waters it's everybody else's, especially the cable mfrs. I feel for the folks who aren't as anal and OCD as those of us who frequent AVS because those are the folks who are gonna get scre*ed. It's only starting.....

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.
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post #90 of 100 Old 01-05-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Dunno 1080 was a 4 year part
The more relevant measure would be between the first TVs supporting 18Gbps HDMI2.0 and the first graphics cards supporting that same capability...
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