Thoughts the new 8K oled from lg? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thoughts the new 8K oled from lg?

http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/08/lg...led-tv-at-ifa/



Bragging rights or something really better? I don't see the advantage of having 4 times the pixels of 4k (=4320p) on a 88" tv.

I would rather that lg improves its core woled technology (peak luminance, uniformity, near blacks, color volumes) before chasing more pixels.

What sort of price do you hope to see on this?
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post #2 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 05:04 AM
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I have to say that the introduction of 8K sets makes me pretty sad. It shifts the focus, once more, on resolution to the detriment of all other factors that go into picture quality. I hope to be wrong but I'm fully expecting uniformity, accuracy, motion resolution and so on and so forth to take a backseat. Even sadder is the fact that I bet LG's hand has been forced by Samsung here. If we are to believe what's been rumoured so far, they're coming out with 8K sets without even HDMI 2.1 (which for 8K is needed if one wants native resolution content, although it doesn't currently exist).

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post #3 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 06:01 AM
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This was to be expected. Samsung is coming out with 8K because they're desperate. But more than that, I think LG is also hitting a wall with their WOLED tech as well. So they have to keep up appearances of continuing to "innovate".
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post #4 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 07:32 AM
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Been going on for years. VHS then ED Beta, LD and DVD. Then HD DVD then BD and now 4k. So next is 8k then 10k and on and on.

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post #5 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 07:34 AM
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8K is about as useful as tits on a man.

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post #6 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 07:53 AM
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Or Tits on a Snake
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post #7 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2018/08/lg...led-tv-at-ifa/



Bragging rights or something really better? I don't see the advantage of having 4 times the pixels of 4k (=4320p) on a 88" tv.

I would rather that lg improves its core woled technology (peak luminance, uniformity, near blacks, color volumes) before chasing more pixels.

What sort of price do you hope to see on this?
monstrous pricetag on it i bet

and leave it to Samsung's prices to challenge OLED's haha

at the end of the day, it all comes down to the same thing as usual... LCD cannot match up to OLED

doesn't matter how many pages Samsung's PR/Marketing department writes up and snakeoils it up.. it's an LCD set. Samsung has no real gamechanging technology until MicroLED arrives to challenge oled

this is why it's been: game. set. match.
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post #8 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 08:31 AM
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there is practical benefit to 8K. You can't fill a 32-million-pixel-count screen by upscaling from 2K DI material anymore. It's gonna force the entire industry to adopt 4K DI as the minimally acceptable standard (I'd love to see how studios struggle/deal with 4K CG render). Maybe instead of native pixels, the industry will start relying on AI to assist in filling the blanks, but the result nevertheless is better clarity content for our current 4K set, that I can look forward to.
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post #9 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ian c 2 View Post
It's gonna force the entire industry to adopt 4K DI as the minimally acceptable standard (I'd love to see how studios struggle/deal with 4K CG render).
Newer render farms.

Distributed rendering technology has been there for a while. It's done on clusters of PCs in cheap consumer boxes with powerful internals, filling up rows of shelves. And both GPU and CPU have gotten much, MUCH faster. Ten years ago, $1,000 bought you 1-4 TFLOPS of GPU compute or 4 CPU cores. Today it gets you 15-30 TFLOPS of GPU or 16 twice as powerful CPU cores from Threadrippers.
Short of the 32x from Moore's (not holding) law would predict, but still an 8x-12x gain. It also comes in bigger more convenient packages, reducing platform and housing overheads.

Not to mention the mining farms, sitting barely paying for their power from the crypto fad's collapse. Built to very tight budgets, they could potentially be used as render farms at a considerable discount. That's liquid infrastructure sitting ready - the farms trade hands with well-defined value, losing much less of it than building and then trying to offload a compute cluster of old. Leasing large farms could also render in a fraction of the time, reducing waste. And movie budgets have increased over 1.5x in the meantime.

Total this up and we have 32x-64x the rendering power within the budget, more with crypto farm leasing. But even that's not all - at higher resolutions, you don't need as many rays per pixel. More rays give less noise, but very fine noise is much less visible. So a 32x performance gain represents an 8x-10x resolution gain, and 64x power can give 12x-16x the resolution. That would be up to 20K and 32K respectively, well beyond the plausible need.

Unlike game graphics, raytracing doesn't gain much computational complexity with nicer effects. Since the work is split into small tiles, it can be spread over farm clusters. Practically, you'd want to spend some of it on more effects and more complexity, but 8K+ rendering isn't just feasible - it's as reachable as 2K rendering was in the 2000s.
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post #10 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 10:37 AM
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Nvidia is already marketing hardware-assisted AI upscaling. "New capabilities will also be possible with the NVIDIA RTX Tensor Cores and RT Cores available with Turing. Editors will gain from new functionality like AI-enabled upscaling, which will let them intermix archival footage or zoom in beyond 8K resolution with the best possible results."
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/0...ema-nvidia-8k/
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post #11 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
I would rather that lg improves its core woled technology (peak luminance, uniformity, near blacks, color volumes) before chasing more pixels.
There's no evidence to suggest that moving to 8K will be at the detriment of other viewing factors. Moving to 4K didn't stop innovation in black levels, peak brightness, contrast, etc...
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post #12 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I have to say that the introduction of 8K sets makes me pretty sad. It shifts the focus, once more, on resolution to the detriment of all other factors that go into picture quality. I hope to be wrong but I'm fully expecting uniformity, accuracy, motion resolution and so on and so forth to take a backseat. Even sadder is the fact that I bet LG's hand has been forced by Samsung here. If we are to believe what's been rumoured so far, they're coming out with 8K sets without even HDMI 2.1 (which for 8K is needed if one wants native resolution content, although it doesn't currently exist).
I felt the same about 3D. No offense to my 3D loving brothers.

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post #13 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I have to say that the introduction of 8K sets makes me pretty sad. It shifts the focus, once more, on resolution to the detriment of all other factors that go into picture quality. I hope to be wrong but I'm fully expecting uniformity, accuracy, motion resolution and so on and so forth to take a backseat. Even sadder is the fact that I bet LG's hand has been forced by Samsung here. If we are to believe what's been rumoured so far, they're coming out with 8K sets without even HDMI 2.1 (which for 8K is needed if one wants native resolution content, although it doesn't currently exist).
The main development roadmap for WOLED is to increase electro-optical efficiency. This single improvement results in:

-increased peak brightness
-decreased aging-rate and increased time to develop burn-in (for obsessive CNN viewers )
-reduced power consumption
-relaxed ABL
-ability to deliver acceptable brightnes levels with reduced fill-factor, such as that required for 8K resolution

The point I'm trying to make is that in delivering the improvements that are most critical to WOLEDs future anyway (electro-optical effuciency), 8K screen resolution essentially comes 'for free' and does not require much shift in focus.

The emergence of 8K WOLEDs will give us 4K WOLEDs with higher peak brightness and increased refresh rates (which will result in more effective BFI).

This is all good, and hopefully LG has understood that improving near-black uniformity is part of their bread-and-butter and critical to WOLEDs continued dominance of the Oremium TV segmet.

8K will require refreshing pixels 4-times as fast, meaning native 120fps @ 2160p will probably start as 60fps @ 4320p before eventually achieving 120fps @ 4320p.

That can translate back to 240fps @ 2160 and eventually 480fps @ 2160, which would be capable of delivering plasma-like persistence levels of 2.1ms.

The actual availability of 8K products is far less important than all of the backplane snd eletr-optical efficiency improvements it will drive.

85" and up screens will be going 8K.

55" and 65" screens will be sticking with 4K but with impressive performance improvements.

It's still unclear to me whether LG will promote 75" screens primarily as 4K or primarily as 8K (or maybe both).

I would rather have a very fast (improved motion), very bright 4K 75" WOLED than an 8K 75" WOLED.

Don't be surprised to see LG plunge the improvements they are developing 'for 8K' back into even more impressive 55" and 65" 4K WOLEDs.

A 4K WOLED panel can be manufactured with 8K 'improvements' without adding any real cost.

While the same is true for a QD-enhanced LCD panel, it is not true for it's LED backlight (an improved backlight will add cost).

The trend towards developing ultra-large-screen 8K TVs will reinforce WOLEDs dominance of 55" - 75" 4K Premium TVs...
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post #14 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I have to say that the introduction of 8K sets makes me pretty sad. It shifts the focus, once more, on resolution to the detriment of all other factors that go into picture quality. I hope to be wrong but I'm fully expecting uniformity, accuracy, motion resolution and so on and so forth to take a backseat. Even sadder is the fact that I bet LG's hand has been forced by Samsung here. If we are to believe what's been rumoured so far, they're coming out with 8K sets without even HDMI 2.1 (which for 8K is needed if one wants native resolution content, although it doesn't currently exist).
I agree - but honestly, it doesnt matter to me at all. Im extremely happy with my 65" E6 and its lowly 4K resolution. Its got great 3D too which no new sets will have. I just cant see how the masses will adopt 8K in any Large scale way. Then what? Gotta go and rebuy all of my blu-ray and UHD titles in 8K now? Not a [email protected]#$% chance thats happening!

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post #15 of 63 Old 08-30-2018, 04:30 PM
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That is if we even get 8K discs. That may never happen. If 8K is really going to take off in content personally I feel it will be over streaming which you don't need a 2.1 connection for. I think if you want an 8K set now like this LG by the time you may actually really need a 2.1 connection it might be time for your next upgrade anyway. Its mostly all going to be upscaling for a long time and youtube videos. Then maybe some streaming services but 8K discs may never happen.
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8K is about as useful as tits on a man.
There is nothing to see in 4 k let alone 8k.

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post #17 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 02:52 AM
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There is nothing to see in 4 k let alone 8k.
I have had a 4k TV for two years and I love it. Way better than 1080. It uprezzes all 1080 to 4k and looks stunning.

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I have had a 4k TV for two years and I love it. Way better than 1080. It uprezzes all 1080 to 4k and looks stunning.

Completely agree. Watched Life of Pi in 4K last night and the picture on my (uncalibrated) B7A was jaw-dropping.
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Completely agree. Watched Life of Pi in 4K last night and the picture on my (uncalibrated) B7A was jaw-dropping.
I don't buy 4 disc so when cable and OTA HD is in 4k then i will say there is something to see in 4k.

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post #20 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:28 AM
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I don't buy 4 disc so when cable and OTA HD is in 4k then i will say there is something to see in 4k.
Then why do you have an Oppo 203??
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post #21 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:42 AM
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I agree - just don't get 8k. There is scarce 4k live programming or shows right now. What they heck is the rush to 8k, unless programming just skips 4k altogether?

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There is nothing to see in 4 k let alone 8k.
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post #22 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:55 AM
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It’s refreshing and reassuring to see this prevailing attitude among enthusiasts.

4K is a huge improvement over 1080. 8k is...nothing. For home viewers at reasonable (under 100”) screen sizes.

We want real improvements in image quality, not a decade of overpriced malaise stagnation with endless gimmicks like curved and 3D, like we got with the SDR LCD era.

I know 8k is in Rec.2020, but - other that 120 Hz - it’s probably the least relevant piece. The GAMUT and 10-/12-bit subpixels are where it’s at.

As long as at least one manufacturer keeps Samsung from fooling consumers with “8k” and “QLED”, the resources lost chasing a foolish resolution increase won’t set real progress back too far.

PS if you’re an enthusiast, and you’re not watch ultra HD blu ray discs, what are you doing?
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post #23 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 06:22 AM
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could be worth it if your upscaler is powerful enough. bilinear isn't going to cut it going from 1080 to 8k.

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post #24 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 06:58 AM
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We want real improvements in image quality, not a decade of overpriced malaise stagnation with endless gimmicks like curved and 3D, like we got with the SDR LCD era.
While I agree in general with the substance of your post I disagree that 3D is a gimmick. 3D is IMHO the best thing to happen to TV since the transistor. Lichtmond 3D DVDs are almost as good as sex.

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Completely agree. Watched Life of Pi in 4K last night and the picture on my (uncalibrated) B7A was jaw-dropping.
I have Life of Pi on a 4K disc and I bought it to replace the 1080 version. I was massively disappointed. The 1080 uprezzed looks just as good. Both look orgasmic, especially the opening credits.

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post #26 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 12:08 PM
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We want real improvements in image quality, not a decade of overpriced malaise stagnation with endless gimmicks like curved and 3D, like we got with the SDR LCD era.
You think in the last decade there were no improvements in image quality?
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post #27 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by memesatwork View Post
Then why do you have an Oppo 203??
To re sell it for more. Had it up for sale but no local buyers. I have one 4k disc when i bought a Sammy 8500 UHD player,Planet earth and it does look super on the Sony OLED. But i got sick of buying the same movies everytime a new format came out. Plus i just don't want movies anymore so i am not gonna spend big money on 4k disc.

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post #28 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:18 PM
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I agree - just don't get 8k. There is scarce 4k live programming or shows right now. What they heck is the rush to 8k, unless programming just skips 4k altogether?
There is not even 1080p OTA - HD.

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post #29 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:20 PM
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You think in the last decade there were no improvements in image quality?
Sure there has been. DVD to BD and now to 4k. But nothing OTA or cable that comes close to BD or 4K.

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post #30 of 63 Old 08-31-2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Sure there has been. DVD to BD and now to 4k. But nothing OTA or cable that comes close to BD or 4K.
You should get an 8k when they come out for your room....but you may have to remove the deer head.....
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