2018 Sony A9F Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
LMAO..And so...it begins (again). All you fine folks and armchair experts, who mistook a sony slide and their words 'factory calibrated for uniformity' to foolishly assume sony was ending the near black uniformity/banding panel lottery, it was nice meeting you.
Banding is a "flaw" in all OLED at this time. No reason to be all high and mighty about it. I have NEVER once seen banding watching content on my A1E. Is it visible using slides? Yes. So who cares? I had it alot worse on my EF9500, and it still was not noticeable watching content.
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post #62 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
here are my 5%, 10% and 20% pics. this is after 10 hours of use. i was watching hereditary and did notice a lot of banding on many shots. if this does not get better within the next 45 days I'm afraid I may return this unit. i just can't justify spending what I spent on this tv and have to live with and accept this banding. what do you guys think, is this a keeper?
I'm surprised at the negative feedback on these. From what I remember from the banding thread, this would be considered a good panel. If the process Sony uses guarantees a "good" panel, avoiding panel lottery, that could be something good, couldn't it? Even the picture in their presentation wasn't perfect, after all.

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post #63 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
hand pressing on back of screen. they basically put the tv back side up on my chaise to install the kickstand and one idiot was like hunch over resting his hand on my TV. It wasn't long cause as soon as i noticed i told him to not rest his hands on my TV. between that and them not knowing how to put the stand had me pretty annoyed.
Hmm, that's troubling. I don't even know if OLEDs are pressure sensitive, but the manual explicitly says not to ever have the screen flat with its face parallel to the ground (held that way or placed on a surface). That might just be to avoid cracking the glass and have nothing to do with pressing the screen. If the guy had his weight on the back of the lower left side (where yours is pink), I'd be suspicious. But, it's probably just that all OLED panels still have random pink tint. Sony's now infamous uniformity improvement presentation slide might have only been for LCD panels.

But yeah, how's the interface? YouTube and Netflix load quickly? No lag in basic menus or using TV volume?
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post #64 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
... I have NEVER once seen banding watching content on my A1E. Is it visible using slides? Yes. So who cares? I had it alot worse on my EF9500, and it still was not noticeable watching content.
I WISH I could say that about mine, I really do ...
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post #65 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Banding is a "flaw" in all OLED at this time. No reason to be all high and mighty about it. I have NEVER once seen banding watching content on my A1E. Is it visible using slides? Yes. So who cares? I had it alot worse on my EF9500, and it still was not noticeable watching content.
Yes, and it seemingly remains the same with the a9f, contrary to what was being claimed by some in this thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...tvs-debut.html

You may have never noticed uniformity issues in actual content, but then again some people do.
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post #66 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:10 AM
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Summary of first few days of old A1E owners thread: Al raving about how great it is, how he accidentally bought two but will keep them both because it's so great.

Summary of first couple days of A9F thread: Meh, still a panel lottery.

Oh, how our standards have changed in 1.5 years!
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post #67 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
Summary of first few days of old A1E owners thread: Al raving about how great it is, how he accidentally bought two but will keep them both because it's so great.

Summary of first couple days of A9F thread: Meh, still a panel lottery.

Oh, how our standards have changed in 1.5 years!
Do you not find it weird that one of the first owners of the a9f in this thread who posted pics is thinking about returning the tv?
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post #68 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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I WISH I could say that about mine, I really do ...
Me 2 :-)
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post #69 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:32 AM
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^^^
What you are saying is very misleading.

The facts are that consumer LCD and OLED TVs inherently have panel uniformity problems meaning every set has them to one extent or another. It would be too costly for manufacturers with the current technology to provide a perfect panel so we will probably never see this.

For OLEDs there are millions of LEDs that all have to be emitting the same amount of light at the same intensity and color. In addition, as the luminance increases they then have to emit this light in a linear fashion. What Sony appears to have done is improve the uniformity calibration process at the factory to make the panel more uniform and linear. This doesn't mean that you are now going to see a perfect panel. What it means is the panels should be cleaner than before and hopefully clean enough not to see any uniformity issues with content given the price point of this consumer TV.


Also, I've seen many sets from the factory that have some screen retention from the factory testing and some without. I believe in this case above, there is some screen retention that needs to be worked out by using the set and or running a clear panel. Normal users who purchase this set aren't looking for this and will never see it so Sony will probably be pretty successful if they accomplish their goals with this new process.


We really need to wait until some of the more experienced people get the set and are able to give better feedback either pro or con.

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post #70 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
Banding is a "flaw" in all OLED at this time.
No doubt, this may be the master series but hand it to a couple of avs'ers and well find the problems with them, as they will NOT be problem/flaw free...
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post #71 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:38 AM
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2018 Sony A9F Master Series OLED Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This picture is useless and misleading. When you turn up the saturation and contrast the panel will be severely clipping and non-linear so it's not a valid test.

It is not meant to be a test. The purpose of the image is to show where the pink areas in the original photograph are by exaggerating them. I considered this worthwhile, because you indicated you could not see these tinted areas in the original image. They are there in the original, but perhaps you will not be able to see them even with this assistance.

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post #72 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
No doubt, this may be the master series but hand it to a couple of avs'ers and well find the problems with them, as they will NOT be problem/flaw free...
A diamond with a flaw is worth more than a pebble with no imperfections.

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post #73 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:47 AM
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^^^
One last thing. So that image is misleading for the reasons I mentioned which is the point I was making.

The Real test is to show a full white screen, 25%, 50% 75% and 100% and look to see if there is any red, green or yellow tinting visible to your eye. This is important because you will see this in content and there is really no way to correct it.

You could also look at the CNN news bar at the bottom of the screen and see if it looks perfectly white across the screen. If there is tinting you will see slight red on the left side and maybe some push to green on the right or just view a B&W movie for a little bit. You will see it if its there.

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post #74 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 07:58 AM
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No doubt, this may be the master series but hand it to a couple of avs'ers and well find the problems with them, as they will NOT be problem/flaw free...
All Sets have some kind of problems. Plasma has this LCD that and OLED also. Only my C6 has been problem free, C6 Vette that is. I have to see banding on my 65" A1E while viewing normal stuff.

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post #75 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 08:04 AM
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Do you not find it weird that one of the first owners of the a9f in this thread who posted pics is thinking about returning the tv?
I don't know of my impression is absolutely true, but I get the feeling that 55" OLED panels have fewer uniformity issues (or they're harder to spot) than 65". For the A9F, first available are 65" with 55" seemingly coming in another week or two. A1E was 55" first (at least for Al) and back in April 2017 I think fewer people were aware of vertical banding (edge vignetting was mostly solved and people hadn't started to dwell on the other flaws as much... some did, but I think it was still the "maybe this year" honeymoon phase before the 2017 panels were fully studied with enough samples). The "maybe this time" eternal optimism will probably start again in a few months for the 2019 panels which Sony might not even use. I think there won't be any major changes in the manufacturing process until the 2020 panels (produced late 2019) anyway.

The other factor for people being more likely to return is the price. Yes, I won't dwell/whine here, but it's a factor.

I still look forward to more owners' reviews, uniformity photos, etc.! As others with extensive experience have said, uniformity changes with time (compensation cycles), so we should not be too judgemental quite yet. We still don't know for sure whether or not Sony is getting cherry-picked binned panels, and our sample of one very fresh panel that was possibly (but probably not) damaged during setup isn't enough data. The science must continue, and much respect and appreciation goes to all early adopters who share here!
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post #76 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 08:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
I don't know of my impression is absolutely true, but I get the feeling that 55" OLED panels have fewer uniformity issues (or they're harder to spot) than 65". For the A9F, first available are 65" with 55" seemingly coming in another week or two. A1E was 55" first (at least for Al) and back in April 2017 I think fewer people were aware of vertical banding (edge vignetting was mostly solved and people hadn't started to dwell on the other flaws as much... some did, but I think it was still the "maybe this year" honeymoon phase before the 2017 panels were fully studied with enough samples). The "maybe this time" eternal optimism will probably start again in a few months for the 2019 panels which Sony might not even use. I think there won't be any major changes in the manufacturing process until the 2020 panels (produced late 2019) anyway.

The other factor for people being more likely to return is the price. Yes, I won't dwell/whine here, but it's a factor.

I still look forward to more owners' reviews, uniformity photos, etc.! As others with extensive experience have said, uniformity changes with time (compensation cycles), so we should not be too judgemental quite yet. We still don't know for sure whether or not Sony is getting cherry-picked binned panels, and our sample of one very fresh panel that was possibly (but probably not) damaged during setup isn't enough data. The science must continue, and much respect and appreciation goes to all early adopters who share here!
Sure, i say give it a few more months , until the end of this year when a good number of people have the sets and keep an eye on the uniformity thread. Evaluate the complaints coming in to the complaints in the same timeframe for the a8f. And then see whether sony has "improved" anything at all. That presentation slide was simply misinterpreted by some people, had nothing to do with near black uniformity issues like banding. i dont\'t expect anything better ,same old panel lottery,..until lg display makes a major change to their manufacturing process, which like you said won't happen any time before 2020.
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post #77 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 08:27 AM
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i'm probably the wrong person to ask these questions. i kept the settings at their preset defaults and did not go through each one. As far as the dolby vision i used day and night settings and both looked good, i guess day had a little more punch. i did not use vivid. have not tried youtube HDR, will try tomorrow.
I'm not seeing the HDR logo when playing HDR clips in youtube. Have tried several clips from User The HDR Channel.
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post #78 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 08:35 AM
 
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The hdr logo is in the top right corner in picture settings when hdr10 content is playing, if you don't see it, means sony still doesnt support vp9 profile 2 with the newer android oreo either. that's too bad, youtube hdr is basic functionality and sony tv's still dont support it.
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post #79 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 08:35 AM
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The fact that he saw it in CONTENT makes any supposed claims about improving uniformity irrelevant.

Those of us who are sensitive to the issue already know that if you see it in a slide, you will inevitably see it in (some) content.

I’m still curious what kind of reports we get from other owners, of course.



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post #80 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 09:21 AM
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My 65 A9F arrived this morning at 6:30am.

Here are a few quick observations.
  • HDMI default to standard. Switching to enhanced no longer requires a reboot as it did on my 930c and 930d
  • Android - cleaner interface. Very responsive, but still Android. My AppleTV 4K will still be my default interface.
  • AppleTV immediately detected Dolby Vision support. A little logo shows up momentarily in the upper right.
  • Lift the display if moving it on a table, such as to get to the inputs. The screen has non-slip feet on edge and will likely cause bending if pushed.
  • Very fast switching between resolutions such when my Tivo switches from 480p, 730p, 1080i/p, etc content resolutions. Perhaps 1 sec max.
  • Switching inputs is fast too. Probably the new X1 extreme processor with newer Android
  • Netflix - with the app launched from the Sony, it's got a new interface. Action Menu, picture adjustments. there is a new Netflix calibrated mode. It's off by default.

Visuals
  • I watched Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (4k Dolby Vision) last night on the 930c. Looked at a number of scenes today on the A9F. Inky blacks are amazing in comparison to the 930c, contrast is far higher. The movie itself isn't great, but visually it's a stand out.
  • I've been looking at a number of my 4k/dolby vision material such as Blade Runner 2049, The Martian, Ready Player One, Justice League, and so on. So far it all looks great and the uniformity looks super.
  • Gaming - God of War looks even better than on the 930c/d. It's not high-twitch enough for me to judge latency.

I'll provide more data later but for now I'm just going to enjoy it.

Last edited by jsessler; 09-09-2018 at 09:37 AM.
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post #81 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 09:40 AM
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Also - will be curious to hear if Sony has fixed the dimming issue with their new OLED.
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post #82 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 09:56 AM
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^^^


You could also look at the CNN news bar at the bottom of the screen and see if it looks perfectly white across the screen. If there is tinting you will see slight red on the left side and maybe some push to green on the right or just view a B&W movie for a little bit. You will see it if its there.
My A9F looks uniformly white across the CNN news bar at the bottom of the screen.
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post #83 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:01 AM
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How responsive is the Android operating system with the X1 processor?
Very responsive. Instant bringing up the "home" screen. Navigation is quick, no pausing, stuttering, etc.

It's running 8.0.0, security patch level is June 1, 2018. Kernel 4.9.51. Firday Jul 27th 2018.
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post #84 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:08 AM
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Leaving banding aside, @akadennis , can you take the time to answer these few questions?

Q1. The new pixel contrast booster feature, is it a user selectable option like ACE or do you not see it in settings (it is built into the processing)? Do you see any improvement in bright highlight detail due to this feature, it is supposed to boost the color of highlight details, does it make a difference in bright scenes?

Q2. Dolby vision now has 3 preset options, which do you think gives the most punch? DV has found to be relatively lacking punch on previous sony oleds.

Q3. How is the motion with the new X1U? Do you notice any stuttering issues or SOE when motion processing is engaged?

Q4. And (this i have been willing to find out), does the new android oreo support youtube hdr in the tv app? can you try playing a hdr video in the tv's youtube app and see if hdr is triggered?
Q2: Under picture settings there is Vivid (it does not say DV Vivid), DV Bright, and DV Dark - those are the only options.
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post #85 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jsessler View Post
Very responsive. Instant bringing up the "home" screen. Navigation is quick, no pausing, stuttering, etc.

It's running 8.0.0, security patch level is June 1, 2018. Kernel 4.9.51. Firday Jul 27th 2018.
Are you using HDMI 1? The reason I ask is cause for whatever reason HDMI 1 is on the side and the tv comes with a piece to cover where the HDMI port 1 is but if your using HDMI 1 you can't really use that cover piece hence making it look a little naked from behind :-)

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post #86 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:18 AM
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Jsessler, GOW4 has some great HDR. How does it look brightness wise. Does the A9F enough pop, also how does the WCG look?


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post #87 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:32 AM
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Even the better LCD FALD displays don't show a clean 5% slide and they're notably worse than OLED displays at higher luminance levels where uniformity issues are more prevalent. I guess those who disregard OLED for banding issues have no qualms with DSE from hockey and golf or any panning shots of the sky.

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post #88 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Are you using HDMI 1? The reason I ask is cause for whatever reason HDMI 1 is on the side and the tv comes with a piece to cover where the HDMI port 1 is but if your using HDMI 1 you can't really use that cover piece hence making it look a little naked from behind :-)
There are two covers. A blanking panel and a panel with a cut-out for passing cables out. That said, on the one with the cut-out, the cut-out is at the top where the serial control is, so you'd need a right-angle HDMI for it to work. The other option would be to dril another hole for the HDMI.

All that said, it you use HDMI 1, even with the cover off, it's so dark behind the set that you really don't notice the gap.

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post #89 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 11:01 AM
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There are two covers. A blanking panel and a panel with a cut-out for passing cables out. That said, on the one with the cut-out, the cut-out is at the top where the serial control is, so you'd need a right-angle HDMI for it to work. The other option would be to dril another hole for the HDMI.

All that said, it you use HDMI 1, with the back covers on, it's so dark behind the set that you really don't notice the gap.
The one with the cut out I thought is for the other side where there are power and volume control buttons. I’ll switch them and see I guess it doesn’t matter if the controls are covered in the back since I’ll probably never use them
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post #90 of 3499 Old 09-09-2018, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
All Sets have some kind of problems. Plasma has this LCD that and OLED also. Only my C6 has been problem free, C6 Vette that is. I have to see banding on my 65" A1E while viewing normal stuff.
Come on that C6 has orange peel in the paint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsessler View Post
My 65 A9F arrived this morning at 6:30am.

I'll provide more data later but for now I'm just going to enjoy it.
Sweet Congrats.
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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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master series , oled , sony a9f

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