2018 Sony A9F Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
So, if one is due to have their display calibrated should a panel refresh be done prior to the calibration?


Thanks
If I were you I'd contact D Nice and ask him. He would know best.
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post #962 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 02:15 PM
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If your panel is clear at 5% then there is no real need to do a clear panel. But if you are really concerned, reach out to your calibrator and follow their recommendations.

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post #963 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by knowspinzone View Post
If I were you I'd contact D Nice and ask him. He would know best.
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
If your panel is clear at 5% then there is no real need to do a clear panel. But if you are really concerned, reach out to your calibrator and follow their recommendations.
I have but since I believe he's on the road and pretty busy I haven't heard back yet, I thought I'd ask here because, well, isn't that what we do here?
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post #964 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 02:24 PM
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I can't speak for him but it can't hurt to do one clear screen if it's never been done. Then you know for sure the panel is equalized.
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post #965 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I can't speak for him but it can't hurt to do one clear screen if it's never been done. Then you know for sure the panel is equalized.
That's basically all I was trying to find out, thanks!
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post #966 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
I am also coming from a 929. There is an amazing amount of 4K content unless your primary viewing is OTA/cable/sat or existing blu-rays. Aside from the 4K "thing", HDR/DV, OLED infinite contrast/perfect blacks and emissive tech (no blooming or flash lighting) are, IMHO, huge advantages over a 2K LCD/LED.

My set is coming tomorrow, so I can shortly let you know what I think playing the same 1080 BR's. Based on what I have seen in stores, I expect to be blown away by the PQ, even without 4K HDR content.
Based on the positive comments, I bought the tv this afternoon and much to my surprise, it was installed 3 hours later. I could not be more happy. The picture is more detailed and colorful even in HD.

Now, I plan to play with the settings. For HD, I like the cinema mode a little better than standard. Cinema seems less bright but more detailed.
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post #967 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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My 65A9F was finally delivered this afternoon about 3:00. Friend of mine came over about 4:30 and helped me get it setup on the Salamander cabinet. My wife got home from teaching and we are sitting here watching The Martian UHD blu-ray - WOW! The panel seems perfect, the motion is perfect and the contrast & dimensionality of the picture is mesmerizing. The HDR highlights on BR 2049, Oblivion and Fifth Element damn near put my eyes out. Compared to my HX929, this thing is a light cannon.

A 75" version of this thing would be perfect

Love, love, love it!

Pictures tomorrow
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post #968 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 06:38 PM
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^Congrats!
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post #969 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
My 65A9F was finally delivered this afternoon about 3:00. Friend of mine came over about 4:30 and helped me get it setup on the Salamander cabinet. My wife got home from teaching and we are sitting here watching The Martian UHD blu-ray - WOW! The panel seems perfect, the motion is perfect and the contrast & dimensionality of the picture is mesmerizing. The HDR highlights on BR 2049, Oblivion and Fifth Element damn near put my eyes out. Compared to my HX929, this thing is a light cannon.

A 75" version of this thing would be perfect

Love, love, love it!

Pictures tomorrow

Congratulations! Enjoy the heck out of that baby!
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post #970 of 3136 Old 10-11-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
My 65A9F was finally delivered this afternoon about 3:00. Friend of mine came over about 4:30 and helped me get it setup on the Salamander cabinet. My wife got home from teaching and we are sitting here watching The Martian UHD blu-ray - WOW! The panel seems perfect, the motion is perfect and the contrast & dimensionality of the picture is mesmerizing. The HDR highlights on BR 2049, Oblivion and Fifth Element damn near put my eyes out. Compared to my HX929, this thing is a light cannon.

A 75" version of this thing would be perfect

Love, love, love it!

Pictures tomorrow
Congrats! Any suggestions for settings?
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post #971 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 02:28 AM
 
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Problem is all these folks going 'omg wow' on the a9f in the posts above are coming from 3 year old or older lcd's. There is this guy upgrading from a 930c or another upgrading from a sony 929. If your reference point is an old lcd, it goes without saying you will be blown away by the a9f, or any oled for that matter. However if your reference point is a top end tv from the last year or two (that would be me), you will not notice such a leap. I own a panasonic ez950 (best rated tv in last year's uk competition), a z9d (still regarded by most people but a few as the best lcd out there). i have also seen a lg e8 running at a friend's place. and the room i demoed the new a9f (light controlled environment) also had the sony a8f in there. Based on the tv's i mentioned, i did not find the a9f to be a vast improvement, slightly better yes, better enough to justify the much higher price tag over the others..no. i would still like to get the a9f as a bedroom tv , i just want its price to come down. based on the launch price and what the tv is doing, i think it is somewhat overpriced.

Just a word on the processing, the x1u on paper has 2 times the processing power of the x1e, but that does that translate to 2 times better motion interpolation, upscaling, gradient handling, noise reduction etc. on the a9f compared to the a8f? the answer is no. the motion interpolation seems a bit more refined on the a9f, the bfi mode is same (clearness slider on), it still sucks on the a9f like the a8f (60hz is the limitation of bfi on oleds). on upscaling, playing a soap opera cable tv content 1080i resolution, i really couldn't notice anything that the a9f was doing better than the a8f, on that content the scaling looked almost same to my eyes on both tv's.
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post #972 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tomtb16 View Post
Congrats! Any suggestions for settings?
Start with the Custom picture mode and tweak Color, Brightness to taste. My set was calibrated by Jrref (John) before Value Electronics shipped it to me, but Custom is not ridiculously far off after a few adjustments. What I'm currently running in a darkish (but not theater dark) room is:

Brightness 12
Peak Luminance. Max (or High or whatever it is called)
Black Level 51 (where John set it)
Gamma -1 (John set it to -2 and I'm still planning on having a conversation about why deviate from 2.2)
Color 48 (John had it on 45 - we both agree that the default of 50 is too much)
Smooth Gradation Low
From memory, everything else is at defaults or turned off (in the case of the processing options)

Of course in my case I am using the custom gray scale and CMS settings in the Custom Pro 1 PM from the cal.

Make sure you have the recent firmware loaded as it apparently does affect both dimming and near black performance according to John.
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post #973 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
Problem is all these folks going 'omg wow' on the a9f in the posts above are coming from 3 year old or older lcd's. There is this guy upgrading from a 930c or another upgrading from a sony 929. If your reference point is an old lcd, it goes without saying you will be blown away by the a9f, or any oled for that matter. However if your reference point is a top end tv from the last year or two (that would be me), you will not notice such a leap. I own a panasonic ez950 (best rated tv in last year's uk competition), a z9d (still regarded by most people but a few as the best lcd out there). i have also seen a lg e8 running at a friend's place. and the room i demoed the new a9f (light controlled environment) also had the sony a8f in there. Based on the tv's i mentioned, i did not find the a9f to be a vast improvement, slightly better yes, better enough to justify the much higher price tag over the others..no. i would still like to get the a9f as a bedroom tv , i just want its price to come down. based on the launch price and what the tv is doing, i think it is somewhat overpriced.

Just a word on the processing, the x1u on paper has 2 times the processing power of the x1e, but that does that translate to 2 times better motion interpolation, upscaling, gradient handling, noise reduction etc. on the a9f compared to the a8f? the answer is no. the motion interpolation seems a bit more refined on the a9f, the bfi mode is same (clearness slider on), it still sucks on the a9f like the a8f (60hz is the limitation of bfi on oleds). on upscaling, playing a soap opera cable tv content 1080i resolution, i really couldn't notice anything that the a9f was doing better than the a8f, on that content the scaling looked almost same to my eyes on both tv's.
I'm not sure why you insist on continuing to troll the owner's thread when you think those that are impressed with the set are clueless and you obviously have no intention on becoming an owner. Please take this somewhere else.

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post #974 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 04:19 AM
 
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I'm not sure why you insist on continuing to troll the owner's thread when you think those that are impressed with the set are clueless and you obviously have no intention on becoming an owner. Please take this somewhere else.
I'm giving an honest impression of the tv, not everyone is upgrading from 3 or 4 year lcd's, the impression im giving is RELEVANT to people who own a recent oled tv and/or a z9, they should keep their expectations in check on how much of an improvement the a9f is going to bring to them, because it's simply not a huge difference. Giving an honest impression doesnt amount to trolling. If you see my post, dont i say im still interested in getting the a9f, pending a price drop? How can you be sure im not interesting in getting this tv lol? And far as telling me to post somewhere else or labelling an honest impression as trolling, last i checked where people can or cannot post is the job of moderators, if a moderator told me to not post here any more, i would happily obey, but last i checked you are not a mod here, so stop playing self appointed inspector and MYOB.
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post #975 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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My thoughts so far on dimming and HDR/DV ...

As far as ABL/ASBL, my observations so far agree with Vincent's review, jrref's comments and a few of the owner comments in this thread - I have not seen any evidence of dimming with non-game content yet. Furthermore, I intentionally paused a disc on a scene with moderately bright overall level, and did not notice anything substantial after a couple minutes. I have no idea where Rtings is coming from with their review - that doesn't describe my set.

I agree with Vincent's comments on HDR10 content that the A9F does a very good job at not clipping highlight detail while still maintaining good overall brightness.I now understand how it scored relative to the LG in the VE shootout last month.

I also agree (sort of) with his open ion that DV content is not subjectively "better" than the HDR10 version with Sony's latest dynamic tone mapping in this set. I spent some time yesterday comparing scenes in Blade Runner 2049 between the UHD blu-ray (HDR10) and the iTunes 4K version (DV). With the DV PM set to Dolby Vision Bright, there was not an obvious difference (other than the higher compression on the iTunes version, although it was quite impressive for streaming). Unlike Vincent, the DV Dark PM is not a night & day difference to the DV Bright PM to my eyes based on the couple iTunes DV titles I looked at briefly. And the supposed clipping of highlight detail in the Bright mode (which I'm sure is there on close inspection) wasn't as obvious as Vincent made it out to be.

I have ordered a couple discs with DV (new Tomb Raider & Hitman's Bodyguard) to play with since I can turn DV on and off in the UB820.

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post #976 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 04:41 AM
 
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Exactly. It is difficult to compare in box stores. They certainly don't calibrate their display models. I put more stock into the comparisons posted by the calibrators who frequent this forum than viewing them in BB (I remember several years ago thinking that a specific display looked the best in one store and the absolute worst in a different store, no doubt due to set-up). Based on the recent shoot-out in NY, these displays are awfully close to each other for overall PQ, with a slight advantage to the A9.
Correct. you could give the best oled tv title to the a9f but it'd be by a whisker. At the shootout, the competing oled to the a9f was the lg c8, the a8f wasn't there, but myself having seen the a8f next to the a9f as well, very subtle improvements on the a9f compared to a8f for the discerning viewer, not the 'in your face' improvements that anybody could spot. and according to rtings, somewhat inexplicably, they are saying in their review the hdr looks a bit dim on the a9f compared to the a8f (i thought the general brightness in hdr looked similar, with the small section highlight details(2% window) having slightly more punch on the a9f.
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post #977 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
Start with the Custom picture mode and tweak Color, Brightness to taste. My set was calibrated by Jrref (John) before Value Electronics shipped it to me, but Custom is not ridiculously far off after a few adjustments. What I'm currently running in a darkish (but not theater dark) room is:

Brightness 12
Peak Luminance. Max (or High or whatever it is called)
Black Level 51 (where John set it)
Gamma -1 (John set it to -2 and I'm still planning on having a conversation about why deviate from 2.2)
Color 48 (John had it on 45 - we both agree that the default of 50 is too much)
Smooth Gradation Low
From memory, everything else is at defaults or turned off (in the case of the processing options)

Of course in my case I am using the custom gray scale and CMS settings in the Custom Pro 1 PM from the cal.

Make sure you have the recent firmware loaded as it apparently does affect both dimming and near black performance according to John.
For everyone's benefit whether you calibrate yourself or have a pro do it, I can't validate other sets but the new A9 and Z9 are set up to calibrate at gamma 2.2 or set to 0, the native gamma of the panel. Once done, you can change the gamma to anything you want, -2,-1,0, and the set will figure out the offsets. At first I was skeptical but the new Calman Autocal workflow is extended to validate this and it works. That said, it gives you the flexibility of changing the gamma to your specific preference without changing the calibration. Gamma -2 is 2.4 which is traditionally a dark room, movie gamma, but there is lot's of discussion on which gamma is best and at the end of the day it's what your eyes like best.

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post #978 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 05:34 AM
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I would also agree, if I had an A1, A8 or a C8, I wouldn't run out and get an A9 unless you wanted the latest but if I had an older set I would get the A9 since it has the faster processor and will probably get more updates longer than the older sets. Also the color volume on the A9 is pretty impressive and the menu system and apps are incredibly fast. Finally, I haven't seen any sets with the red/green white screen tinting, at least nothing very noticeable, nothing is perfect, and for me that's a game changer.
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post #979 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 05:36 AM
 
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For a pitch black room, 2.4 gamma is what i prefer to bring out the pop in those blacks (these oleds with gamma 2.4 and oled light only around 30-40 still look vert bright for a dark room). gamma 2.2 though is the generally recommended norm for all types of viewing environment.
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I would also agree, if I had an A1, A8 or a C8, I wouldn't run out and get an A9 unless you wanted the latest but if I had an older set I would get the A9 since it has the faster processor and will probably get more updates longer than the older sets. Also the color volume on the A9 is pretty impressive and the menu system and apps are incredibly fast. Finally, I haven't seen any sets with the red/green white screen tinting, at least nothing very noticeable, nothing is perfect, and for me that's a game changer.
True that a9f registers higher on the p3/rec2020 color volume than other oleds, but in real world usage , are you going to see the advantage of that higher color volume in all content and scenes? well no. even the samsung qleds (the q9 and last year's q7) have excellent measured color volumes (as you must be knowing), but only a few scenes you are going to see the advantage in real word scenarios..say a high apl outdoor scene with various colors, a higher color volume tv in such a scene will theoretically help the individual colors to retain more intensity than a tv with lower color volume.

and oleds, including the a9f, can still do a lot better with color volume (see the rec 2020 color volume) if they weren't using the white subpixel alongside the three primaries.

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True that a9f registers higher on the p3/rec2020 color volume than other oleds, but in real world usage , are you going to see the advantage of that higher color volume in all content and scenes? well no. even the samsung qleds (the q9 and last year's q7) have excellent measured color volumes (as you must be knowing), but only a few scenes you are going to see the advantage in real word scenarios..say a high apl outdoor scene with various colors, a higher color volume tv in such a scene will theoretically help the individual colors to retain more intensity than a tv with lower color volume.
Actually Yes. One of the first things I noticed, not knowing about the color volume of the set, was what I call "vivid" colors, more saturation at high luminance.
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post #982 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 06:07 AM
 
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Actually Yes. One of the first things I noticed, not knowing about the color volume of the set, was what I call "vivid" colors, more saturation at high luminance with some of the test content I use when I calibrate.
And you think that purely boils down to the little higher measured volume on the a9f compared to a8f? I think it's down to another feature the a9f has embedded in the processing - pixel contrast booster, pixel contrast booster is meant to enhance the color brightness and make them more vivid in high apl scenes.

i also remember reading dnice saying the same when discussing the high color volumes on the samsung qleds that color volume is not something that would manifest itself as an advantage in all scenes and content.
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Can anyone who has installed a stand (instead of using the kickstand) on the A9F (or an A1E for that matter) comment? Is the stand rock stable?
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post #984 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
Blah blah blah blah blah blah
As a new owner of the A9, coming from a 940C, I totally agree with your assessment of the panel. I have a close friend with an A1 and A8 and the A9 is an incremental step up from those sets in some ways. I had a C8 for a week before I returned it because of the motion and upscaling. The A9 IS one of the best panels available at this time.

The problem is not your assessment of the tv, it's the delivery. You come across with an arrogant "know it all" vibe on your posts. Even with your correct assessment of the panel you are not someone that I would give any credence. AVS was created as a meeting place for home theater enthusiast to meet and share knowledge. In the "old" days everyone seemed very helpful and cordial. There are still those here that are here to help. Of course there have been those self appointed "gurus" that have come and gone that share their opinions as facts.

Just and opinion.
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post #985 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 06:44 AM
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If I'm remembering correctly I believe he said it is always enabled and can't be disabled. It's probably not an option that can be accessed in the menu but others who own the set would need to confirm.

Based on your previous comments it sounds like you are a gamer. Have you played any HDR enabled games that use HUD's on your tv yet? Has your overall gaming experience been positive?
Hello, I'm pretty a gamer, but I haven't played an Hdr game yet, I have to end an Jrpg on WiiU at present and It's taking a lot of hours.
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post #986 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 06:44 AM
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Hey guys ... Don't have.time.to.reaf 1000 posts .. can someone give a consensus summary in this set. I'm going to see it today .. I have a 75.z9f on order .. but think this might be the better set for.me.

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post #987 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 06:51 AM
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For people asking about upscaling of HD contents, in last few days I'm playing Hd games and viewing Netflix HD movies and in my opinion it does a really excellent work.
Of course if you play a reference UHD hdr disc on the Oppo is another level.
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post #988 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
Hey guys ... Don't have.time.to.reaf 1000 posts .. can someone give a consensus summary in this set. I'm going to see it today .. I have a 75.z9f on order .. but think this might be the better set for.me.

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Probably the best TV currently available, but like most high-end components, you are well into diminishing returns. It has the usual advantages over the LG OLED's - motion processing, upscaling of <HD material, better color gradation (aka posterization), possibly cleaner near-black performance (although that is not universally accepted) and likely better support from Sony than LG. Based on feedback from my calibrator, panels tend to be less problematic from the Sony's for whatever reason.

The advantage over the cheaper A8F is less clear so far. a little more refined motion processing, a little more detailed/sharper, certainly better processing performance for things like Reality Creation, Black Enhancer, Live Color (all the stuff we normally turn off), dynamic tone mapping in HDR (which has largely achieved parity with LG on HDR) and the really big one is far faster Android performance.

I spent the money because I wanted Sony's latest & greatest with more processor capacity for future FW improvements.

The Z9F is clearly a brighter set (if you need that) with the big advantage of size. But I think it is unavoidable that it is not the equal of the OLED's in many PQ aspects.
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post #989 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 08:02 AM
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[QUOTE=wmwilker;56943854]As a new owner of the A9, coming from a 940C, I totally agree with your assessment of the panel. I have a close friend with an A1 and A8 and the A9 is an incremental step up from those sets in some ways. I had a C8 for a week before I returned it because of the motion and upscaling. The A9 IS one of the best panels available at this time.

So to restate what you said, you feel the A9 has significantly better upscaling and motion than the C8? Is this on streaming content (Netflix Amazon Prime) as well? Did you have a 65" C8? Thank you for your input. I'm most likely going for an A9 though a 77" C8 is tempting- but both upscaling and motion are my 2 biggest concerns.
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post #990 of 3136 Old 10-12-2018, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
Hey guys ... Don't have.time.to.reaf 1000 posts .. can someone give a consensus summary in this set. I'm going to see it today .. I have a 75.z9f on order .. but think this might be the better set for.me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

There have been at least a few posts in the last week of people going to the store to buy a Z9F and leaving with an A9F instead. No idea why that might be...
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