2018 Sony A9F Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 10:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zeromothra View Post
Yes .... Dolby Vision is rough on this set (right now anyway)
I dont know why vincent teoh was pointing out that he prefers hdr10 over dv on this tv. IME (based on demoing this tv 3 hours straight last week), even in the worst case , DV on this tv look at least as good as hdr10, to see a real improvement with DV over hdr10, the content has to be a really good DV encode. I wouldn't use the word rough to describe DV on this tv, compared to how lg oleds process DV, it just looks a bit different. DV on this tv still gives a lot of contrast punch, also the highlight details are pretty good (see the glowing lights in the indoor scenes in Altered Carbon on netflix), only thing is that compared to lg's dv is that overall it looks a little dim, but this is compensated by turning gamma up by one notch to whatever you have it set/calibrated. Sony is using a different way to process DV than lg. lg is still using a hardware based dedicated SoC to process DV , sony is using the latest dolby vision profile 5 and handles processing not via a dedicated SoC but via inbuilt processing.
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post #1022 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
I dont know why vincent teoh was pointing out that he prefers hdr10 over dv on this tv. IME (based on demoing this tv 3 hours straight last week), even in the worst case , DV on this tv look at least as good as hdr10, to see a real improvement with DV over hdr10, the content has to be a really good DV encode. I wouldn't use the word rough to describe DV on this tv, compared to how lg oleds process DV, it just looks a bit different. DV on this tv still gives a lot of contrast punch, also the highlight details are pretty good (see the glowing lights in the indoor scenes in Altered Carbon on netflix), only thing is that compared to lg's dv is that overall it looks a little dim, but this is compensated by turning gamma up by one notch to whatever you have it set/calibrated. Sony is using a different way to process DV than lg. lg is still using a hardware based dedicated SoC to process DV , sony is using the latest dolby vision profile 5 and handles processing not via a dedicated SoC but via inbuilt processing.
I felt that the same DV content on an LG was way better than that presented by the A9
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post #1023 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
You can try factory reset (page 22 of manual), but some quick googling found similar problems with other Sony models were resolved by a TV replacement after a tech swapping some board didn't fix it. Hopefully this is an exceptionally rare problem that appears early (within warranty) if it's going to happen at all. Since yours is so early, they might tell you to exchange via retailer (if local and can be done faster), but maybe not. Do share updates with how it goes, and good luck!

Hi,

Sorry been aborad and a bit silent on this. Last Monday, I was informed that they would change the set, which was done today!

Got a new fresh one; everything's working of course.
On top of this, I did same 5% and 10% banding test and was even more pleased! The 1st set showed some banding on a 5% grey, and as many experienced here you could barely see this in real action even with Marco Polo famous traveling. You had to know what you were looking for.
On this second set, banding is even much "better", i.e. almost insignificant even on a 5% grey pattern.
Pictures attached from an iPhone. Those clearly look worst than what I see with my eyes. Let's say, the 10% reflects more or less what your eyes could see on a 5% grey pattern.

Very glad finally this happened, even if as I said before the 1st set was really a killer already. A9F is really a Master :-)

Cheers,
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post #1024 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 12:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zeromothra View Post
I felt that the same DV content on an LG was way better than that presented by the A9
Maybe you got taken in by the bightness punch of the image on the lg with dv? ignore that and see the individual sections of the image, the slightly punchier colors with dv (dv is encoded @12 bit), the small highlight details...those look about the same to me on sony's dv implementation like lg. just that the lg dv has more brightness punch and a little more 'dynamism' to the image with dv, however if you adjust the gamma up one notch on sony and ACE (adv. contrast enhancer) to low, then brightness also doesnt feel much different. i never thought the sony dv looked 'inferior'. though i could see someone having a preference for the way lg displays dv. i have seen dv on lg at a friend's place because i dont personally own a lg oled, i have a panasonic which doesnt do dv at all, so a sony a9f would still be a upgrade for me on that front.

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post #1025 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
Maybe you got taken in by the bightness punch of the image on the lg with dv? ignore that and see the individual sections of the image, the slightly punchier colors with dv (dv is encoded @12 bit), the small highlight details...those look about the same to me on sony's dv implementation like lg. just that the lg dv has more brightness punch and a little more 'dynamism' to the image with dv, however if you adjust the gamma up one notch on sony and ACE (adv. contrast enhancer) to low, then brightness also doesnt feel much different. i never thought the sony dv looked 'inferior'. though i could see someone having a preference for the way lg displays dv. i have seen dv on lg at a friend's place because i dont personally own a lg oled, i have a panasonic which doesnt do dv at all, so a sony a9f would still be a upgrade for me on that front.
Interesting observation there .... punch and 'dynamism' say it pretty well. Never crosses over into hyped at all for me. Just more impactful. We did play with the controls a bit, but not like one could do at home over time. As I mentioned earlier I was VERY impressed with the A9 overall. But man, when I put on Altered Carbon back home on the LG it still made my jaw drop after all this time. The Sony presentation of the same ... not so much. I will certainly take your suggestions in to account when I go back for the next round though.
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post #1026 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 04:04 PM
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Guys ... I just cancelled my order for the 75 z9f and bought the 65 a9f. if I had a larger car and not a Jeep Wrangler I'd be watching it right now. But I have to wait until October 24th for my Christmas present.
What about the extra 10" ?
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post #1027 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 04:40 PM
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As far as the DV on the A9F is concerned, I was thinking about it, Sony has to get DV certified on the set by Dolby which means Dolby evaluates DV content on the A9 or whatever certification process they use to make sure content displays correctly then that's it. Once certified, Sony is not supposed to make changes. That said, maybe this is how DV is supposed to look or maybe there may be a bug in the Sony. It's hard to tell if it's correct since we don't have access to a reference or any way to measure the Sony in DV PM and if it's a bug, expect a fix quickly.

The other thing we need to keep in mind is with S.13 of the Sony firmware, it fixed the black crush and increased the luminance on the Expert PM's. I can tell you this firmware made a significant change. It's not clear which firmware Vincent had on his evaluation set so we don't know if he had older firmware or not.

Maybe he will read this and let us know. This new firmware was recently available so it's possible he had the older firmware before the fixes which is why some owners here are not seeing the same issue.

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post #1028 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 06:43 PM
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2018 Sony A9F Master Series OLED Owner's Thread

I was at Best Buy today and they had a Z9F near the A9F. Yikes, BB isn't doing the Z9F any favors. The Z9 looked good but washed out some compared to the A9. On the A9F, gaming wise, how much of a concern is image retention and burn-in? Also, it's noticeable the A9F has more saturated colors next to the A8F. Overall Im very impressed with the A9.
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post #1029 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 06:58 PM
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Hey guys I'm running into an issue with the voice recognition since I updated the firmware. ... I just get a message ... Something went wrong, please.try again later.... ???? Any thoughts. I tried u pairing the remote and repairing it.


(Update)
Had to do with mobile policies on my Google acct.


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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post #1030 of 3136 Old 10-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I was at Best Buy today and they had a Z9F near the A9F. Yikes, BB isn't doing the Z9F any favors. The Z9 looked good but washed out some compared to the A9. On the A9F, gaming wise, how much of a concern is image retention and burn-in? Also, it's noticile the A9F has more saturated colors next to the A8F. Overall Im very impressed with the A9.


My buddy and I thought the same thing! We went today to BB!!!


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post #1031 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 03:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I was at Best Buy today and they had a Z9F near the A9F. Yikes, BB isn't doing the Z9F any favors. The Z9 looked good but washed out some compared to the A9. On the A9F, gaming wise, how much of a concern is image retention and burn-in? Also, it's noticeable the A9F has more saturated colors next to the A8F. Overall Im very impressed with the A9.
The Z9F didn't do itself any favor by compromising front on contrast performance for the sake of wide viewing angles. If i was asked would i prefer a lcd that gimps front on contrast performance for the sake of wider viewing angles, my answer would be no. Front viewing is important. Why do people prefer MVA panels over IPS, it's because they have better contrast and blacks on axis. Sony takes an AU optronics panel and tries to dress it up like an IPS with the Z9F. They have a filter on the screen that makes viewing angles better but at the same time reduces the front on contrast measurements. And couple that with only 104 zones for local dimming (on the 65). In the end that adds up to contrast performance on axis that feels lacking punch. I would say the z9d i own is better for on axis viewing (dont care much for viewing angles, most of the time im watching alone). To the credit of the z9f though, the uniformity and lack of dse is something impressive, i didnt get to run slides on the z9f when i demoed it, but im sure if you were to run low IRE slides, this will turn out to be one of the cleanest looking lcd's around (better than z9d in this regard). Also the z9f's zonal BFI aka x motion clarity is better than the z9d and also much better than the flicker ridden BFI mode on oled tv's, very impressive motion with a minimal brightness hit. Too bad they had to cut corners with the contrast/blacks performance, and that aspect is important to many people.

The z9f next to an a9f will look weak, a9f is the better tv overall.

I'm hearing rumors on the lcd front that sony is readying a much beefier lcd for 2019 , and it could be 8k too. Samsung is already launching 8k lcd's this year (release dates are out) and lg has also made an announcement of a 8k 88" oled. Sony doesnt want to get left behind the competition, so next year you could see a true flagship lcd. My suggestion to anyone considering a z9f at a 3500 usd price tag for a 65 would be to hold off, lcd's are in a transition phase to 8k, you may be able to buy better tv's in some months, because with the 8k sets, resolution won't be the only upgrade.

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post #1032 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 04:01 AM
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The other thing we need to keep in mind is with S.13 of the Sony firmware, it fixed the black crush and increased the luminance on the Expert PM's. I can tell you this firmware made a significant change. It's not clear which firmware Vincent had on his evaluation set so we don't know if he had older firmware or not.

Maybe he will read this and let us know. This new firmware was recently available so it's possible he had the older firmware before the fixes which is why some owners here are not seeing the same issue.
Here you go. A new video showing all the DV issues on the Sony. Firmware shown at 14:16s and it is the latest S14-


The Sony A9F is still the better set to me as the DV issue can be fixed via firmware and the Sony is ahead in many other areas.
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post #1033 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 04:29 AM
 
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^This is the comparison i was waiting for.

Very good comparison video from vincent and thankfully an unbiased, neutral perspective. Both great tv's, neither outrightly beats the others and both have their advantages(listen vincent @20:04-20:15).
Summing up all the different aspects he was comparing, i would say the a9f is a little better tv overall, if price is not being taken into consideration.

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post #1034 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Here you go. A new video showing all the DV issues on the Sony. Firmware shown at 14:16s and it is the latest S14-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEfGs6vHKBA

The Sony A9F is still the better set to me as the DV issue can be fixed via firmware and the Sony is ahead in many other areas.
Interesting. Vincent appears to be basing his comments about near black DV performance on the Sony from the internal Netflix app. Given the closed loop nature of the DV process, it is very difficult to figure out what is going on here. It is possible what we are seeing is due to either encoding errors, general Netflix decoding algorithms or variations in different Netflix client app implementations. If I get really bored I guess I could compare the internal app to the ATV Netflix app and at least rule that out. However separating content from playback errors seems impossible.

One interesting test would be to compare the HDR10 vs DV playback with a DV UHD blu-ray, although given Sony's profile 5 choice, this still leaves questions about player vs TV.

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post #1035 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 07:40 AM
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Interesting. Vincent appears to be basing his comments about near black DV performance on the Sony from the internal Netflix app. Given the closed loop nature of the DV process, it is very difficult to figure out what is going on here. It is possible what we are seeing is due to either encoding errors, general Netflix decoding algorithms or variations in different Netflix client app implementations. If I get really bored I guess I could compare the internal app to the ATV Netflix app and at least rule that out. However separating content from playback errors seems impossible.

One interesting test would be to compare the HDR10 vs DV playback with a DV UHD blu-ray, although given Sony's profile 5 choice, this still leaves questions about player vs TV.
I have compared them and the HDR10 on the ATV is preferable to me.

I spoke to Robert Zohn and he said that Sony will fix the DV issue. He had a few Sony reps at the shootout so I assume his statement is based on talking with them.

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post #1036 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 08:51 AM
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Hello, I'm pretty a gamer, but I haven't played an Hdr game yet, I have to end an Jrpg on WiiU at present and It's taking a lot of hours.
Ok thank you. Please share your impressions once you have had a chance to play some HDR games.

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post #1037 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 09:18 AM
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I looked at Vincent's latest video and i'm glad he did the comparison to the Panasonic and we now know which firmware is on his A9F. Interesting there was no mention of the LG.

That said, I agree color fidelity is probably a little better on the Panasonic since they have the best but although I've seen a couple of A9s that look like his, I've also seen some that look closer to the Panasonic. Below is a calibration scan from my A9 at home. Next time i'll save the same exact scan as Vincent did my set with that scan looks close. What i've been noticing is there is more panel variation set to set with the A8's and A9's that i used to see with the A1's. You can calibrate them to reduce the errors but some panels are a little better than others in this respect. In my opinion, if your CMS errors are deltaE of approx. 1 or less then you are in good shape.


As far a DV, since everything has to be certified by Dolby so there are no variations due to DV implementation, i guess it's a Sony bug and expect a fix at some point.
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post #1038 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 11:57 AM
 
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You think Sony's X1 Ultimate's technique of trying to "Fine-tuning signals for specific panels" may have something to do with the seeing more panel variation?
What is that supposed to mean? The processor is not the variant here, processing would work same on all sets. (unless im not understanding the point)
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I'm still a little surprised about vincent's negative impression on DV on the A9F , what i saw with dv on the tv, altered carbon and stranger things on netflix, it looked pretty damn good to me, i also didnt notice the posterization vincent talks of in some netflix shows in dv.
Vincent never had complaints about dv in his lg c8 review, so it might be he prefers the dv on lg over the a9f based on the current firmwares.

So, as vincent teoh's opinion stands, if you want the best OOTB color accuracy, get a panasonic fz800/950, if you want the best upscaling and best gradient handling/less color banding get the sony a9f, best looking dv get the lg c8/e8.
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post #1040 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
I'm still a little surprised about vincent's negative impression on DV on the A9F , what i saw with dv on the tv, altered carbon and stranger things on netflix, it looked pretty damn good to me, i also didnt notice the posterization vincent talks of in some netflix shows in dv.
Vincent never had complaints about dv in his lg c8 review, so it might be he prefers the dv on lg over the a9f based on the current firmwares.

So, as vincent teoh's opinion stands, if you want the best OOTB color accuracy, get a panasonic fz800/950, if you want the best upscaling and best gradient handling/less color banding get the sony a9f, best looking dv get the lg c8/e8.
I think it over and in my situation Sony will suit me fine and thx for the help.
For color accuracy i use 3dluts with madvr.
For upscaling and overall processing Sony rocks.
Finally for the higher nits i dont care because the nits difference are very low.

Thanks again...
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post #1041 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Here you go. A new video showing all the DV issues on the Sony. Firmware shown at 14:16s and it is the latest S14-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEfGs6vHKBA

The Sony A9F is still the better set to me as the DV issue can be fixed via firmware and the Sony is ahead in many other areas.
He mentions manufactures pulling a Volkswagen, meaning they are pumping up the nits when they dectect a brightness pattern being used to take measurements.

Any insider want to comment on this?
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post #1042 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 12:51 PM
 
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He mentions manufactures pulling a Volkswagen, meaning they are pumping up the nits when they dectect a brightness pattern being used to take measurements.

Any insider want to comment on this?
Try calling samsung customer care for more info
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post #1043 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 04:27 PM
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He mentions manufactures pulling a Volkswagen, meaning they are pumping up the nits when they dectect a brightness pattern being used to take measurements.

Any insider want to comment on this?
I don't know if it specifically detects a brightness test pattern but it's clear that for example Samsung edge-lit models (with dimming ability) can reach much higher peak brightness on these patterns than with real scene content . Now if you had a "real" scene that is completely pure black on 80-90% of the screen and you had something like a moon in a corner you might be able to replicate it so then it wouldn't be a thing just for test patterns.
Note that it is something that could/would be done just to reach the 'UHD Premium' label's >1000 nits requirement; but it is not a new discovery (I for one already mentioned it in the past after it became very obvious through both the Rtings measurements and even more so the HDTV Polska real scene tests).


Another (slight) flaw in the Rtings reviews I must say: whilst they don't give much weight to the results of these 2 and 10% measurements in their score they still write conclusions like "The high brightness values on the 2% and 10% windows will make small highlights stand out in dark scenes." when it simply doesn't get anywhere near their measurements even with a dark real scene (as proven by the HDTV Polska reviews). Rtings' need a bigger variety in real scene test material (something they already said they'd look into months ago and I still don't see any changes).
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post #1044 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 07:45 PM
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Just keep the tv and stop watching 5% slides

It makes no sense
Out of all the dumb comments this one takes the cake. We aren’t watching 5% slides for fun. We’re watching them to prove a point. The picture is not what it should be for $4000+. For that price I want it to be perfect.

I’m sitting here with my 65A9F watching The Haunting on Hill House and the banding on the darker scenes is unbearable. After 100+ hours and a refresh it’s just as garbage as the $1800 LGC7.

Shouldn’t have a fault, shouldn’t see banding and I should be 100% satisfied.

I’m annoyed.
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post #1045 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HNNY H0PK1NS View Post
Out of all the dumb comments this one takes the cake. We aren’t watching 5% slides for fun. We’re watching them to prove a point. The picture is not what it should be for $4000+. For that price I want it to be perfect.

I’m sitting here with my 65A9F watching The Haunting on Hill House and the banding on the darker scenes is unbearable. After 100+ hours and a refresh it’s just as garbage as the $1800 LGC7.

Shouldn’t have a fault, shouldn’t see banding and I should be 100% satisfied.

I’m annoyed.
You probably have a defective set because coincidentally I was watching the same Netflix show tonight and it looks perfect on my A9.

John
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post #1046 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HNNY H0PK1NS View Post
Out of all the dumb comments this one takes the cake. We aren’t watching 5% slides for fun. We’re watching them to prove a point. The picture is not what it should be for $4000+. For that price I want it to be perfect.

I’m sitting here with my 65A9F watching The Haunting on Hill House and the banding on the darker scenes is unbearable. After 100+ hours and a refresh it’s just as garbage as the $1800 LGC7.

Shouldn’t have a fault, shouldn’t see banding and I should be 100% satisfied.

I’m annoyed.
Almost don’t believe your join date or if u even read these forums

You might be watching it to prove a point, but I can’t count the times I’ve read about how someone runs slides to see if there is banding and then says “ now I can’t unsee it”
In other words, they didn’t see it on content and had to look for it on slides

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post #1047 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HNNY H0PK1NS View Post
Out of all the dumb comments this one takes the cake. We aren’t watching 5% slides for fun. We’re watching them to prove a point. The picture is not what it should be for $4000+. For that price I want it to be perfect.

I’m sitting here with my 65A9F watching The Haunting on Hill House and the banding on the darker scenes is unbearable. After 100+ hours and a refresh it’s just as garbage as the $1800 LGC7.

Shouldn’t have a fault, shouldn’t see banding and I should be 100% satisfied.

I’m annoyed.
I feel you on the banding. I have 20 days left and my banding as not improved so looks like its gunna have to go back. My c8 destroys it in uniformity and is way cheaper but this set destroys the c8 in motion so it’s all a trade off
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post #1048 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You probably have a defective set because coincidentally I was watching the same Netflix show tonight and it looks perfect on my A9.
It's a defective set because he sees banding??? If that were the case then every single owner of an oled would have a defective set. No such thing as a completely band free set...cmon now.
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Last edited by Cam1977; 10-14-2018 at 08:38 PM.
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post #1049 of 3136 Old 10-14-2018, 09:09 PM
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I returned mine because of banding. And the reason why people check 5% slides is, as stated, because we know that it will eventually show up in SOME content. Especially those of us who are sensitive to it. It can be a deal breaker - and mine wasn’t even THAT bad compared to what else I have seen.

I still feel like Sony has made an effort to at least try to reduce it to where it’s not as bothersome, which tells me that we’re on the right track.



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post #1050 of 3136 Old 10-15-2018, 07:08 AM
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I picked up my 65” a9f last night got as far as hanging it up and viewing a few minutes of content. I did notice a slight warp or twist in the panel. The left side is perfectly striaight, where the right side leans back. I’m not sure that this is due to the mount or if that would have any impact whatsoever with it essential mounting to the kickstand. Anyone else experience this or have any suggestions?
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