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post #31 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AnalogHD View Post
Yep. LED have improved on that and OLED consume further less power.

That's not a bug, it's a feature! If they managed to make HDR plasmas, imagine the ads - say, a couple is watching a video of a volcano, eating chocolate bars, and they melt down onto their hands right as the screen goes bright. "Feel the heat!"

Well at least reading the specs on the A1E, it uses more power than an efficient LCD. Probably due to the white light being filtered throwing away 2/3 of the light generated on the RGB subpixels.



A true RGB OLED on the other hand would easily win on energy efficiency.

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post #32 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
OK, so inferior to OLED.
Like i said, only visibly superior in scenes with lots of dark in them on HD content. Other than that it is a match. Maybe you do not like it that one can get close for just a few hundred buck...
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post #33 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by robertw11 View Post
Love my OLED but issues like tinting kinda sour the experience at times. My kuro's were for the most part perfect up until my 111fd racked up a ton of hours and I started to notice the magenta tinting on full dark scenes. I also loved how well the pioneers could handle and process a horrible signal, like from a cable box or 480p content. Seems like my B7 cannot clean up content nearly as well and that's probably just because it's a 4k panel. And lastly, I'm still struggling with getting used to OLED motion, be it on a Sony or LG. People claim the Sony's do a better job, and they probably do, but I immediately notice soe with any motion enhancement settings turned on to help with judder. I may have been used to the kuros motion handling, but Im really struggling can't getting used to OLED. I'll even say I prefer my Sony LCD for motion over my OLED.
Sample & Hold, may it be LCD or OLED, it just sucks when one is motion sensitive.
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post #34 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
There is good reason why the last generation Kuro's are thing of TV legend.

I very recently upgraded from a plasma (Panasonic ST60) to an Panasonic OLED. Overall I think its a step in the right direction, blacker/brighter/4k/power efficient, etc. There is still some work to be done on motion, with BFI on and everything else off I find it close but not quite there. While not as wowed as I hoped the OLED is still a very nice looking set and tech, I think this is a testament for how good the better plasma's were.

There is a certain 'look' that plasma had that I liked, not sure if it was dithering, phosphor glow, or something else. Kinda like scan lines on CRT's each tech has their own feel. I also noticed a good difference in the 'look' of an ST30 and ST60 Panasonic plasma, In many ways I still prefer the ST30 even though its less black, less bright, and less colour accurate than the ST60. The OLED (with BFI and all motion enhancements off) has a certain fluidity to the motion that I also like (I believe similar to LCD screens, but i havent spent any time watching a high quality LCD)

In the end there was a myriad or reasons for plasma to be put to pasture, but its a good thing that current OLED screens are a very close competitor to the very best (modified) plasma in 1080 content. Plus OLED has the ability to do more and the tech is still young.

Side note, some of the comments on that youtube video are severely misinformed, or possibly paid for...

I feel the same way. Plasma has a distinct "look" that delivers a very pleasing image. I think it's the phosphor glow, as someone who grew up with CRTs. I just don't love my OLED as much as I loved my 500M (or my Sony FW900 CRT monitor for that matter). Absolute blacks are amazing and it does look great in HDR, but the overall image isn't quite as aesthetic, to me. Also, when content hits a near-black scene, and I can see the jail bars running down the middle of my screen, I kind of shudder. Over $3k on a display and those kind of uniformity issues, it hurts and it hurts bad


Fired up my 5020 last weekend with my Xbox One X and Red Dead Redemption 2 and it looked just amazing in supersampled 1080p. Better motion and better uniformity in a game that doesn't really go down to absolute black. I will keep my two plasmas until they die at this rate. Nice thing too is that, in the winter time, my plasmas keep my bedroom and guest room toasty while they are running



OLED has to address at least the uniformity issues. They look great with 80% of content but then for anything that isn't mastered to a 0% black (The Force Awakens, Arrival) or for near-black content in general it becomes a major issue. BFI helps with the motion stuff. It's not perfect but it's livable.
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post #35 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tedoll78 View Post
I have a 2011 Samsung plasma, and have gotten the OLED itch. The plasma still produces some downright lovely images, but now that I’ve seen my favorite video games played on a C8, I can’t fight the urge to upgrade.

C’mon, Black Friday!
I'm on a 2012 Sammy plasma. Use it pretty much exclusively for gaming. Wouldn't dream of replacing it with an oled. Eye tracking motion blur and motion resolution are much better on the impulse driven plasma. Sample and hold OLED will never have as good motion.
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post #36 of 226 Old 10-31-2018, 08:15 PM
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I'm also one who grew up on CRTs and was always drawn to the "look" of plasmas - which I always felt looked more fluid, warmer, and I don't know what the word is. Cinematic? Natural?

Then again, my Mom still has one of those tail-end HD CRTs that Sony produced at the end of their life and I still think it actually looks pretty damned good. Far better than one would expect.

Uniformity wasn't always perfect on plasmas though. I remember a lot of people getting weird pink or green tints on some models. We all like to glorify a tech once it's gone, but plasmas were never quite perfect either. Remember all those people that complained about buzzing? I loved my VT60 for the few years I owned it, but the thing was an IR magnetic to the point where it became a huge problem.

Nevertheless, I still wish the tech were around as an alternative.
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post #37 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Like i said, only visibly superior in scenes with lots of dark in them on HD content. Other than that it is a match. Maybe you do not like it that one can get close for just a few hundred buck...
So black level doesn't matter. Got it.

Brb, buying an LCD.

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post #38 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
Uniformity wasn't always perfect on plasmas though. I remember a lot of people getting weird pink or green tints on some models. We all like to glorify a tech once it's gone, but plasmas were never quite perfect either. Remember all those people that complained about buzzing? I loved my VT60 for the few years I owned it, but the thing was an IR magnetic to the point where it became a huge problem.
I remember some of the tint complaints. Can't remember if people had luck getting replacements that were fine after one shot or was it like the endless panel replacements that some of us have gone through?

My first 101 or 500M, can't remember which one, had DSE and I got a replacement which was perfect.

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post #39 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
So black level doesn't matter. Got it.

Brb, buying an LCD.
You might be shocked to know, but for many people, black levels really don't matter...
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post #40 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
I remember some of the tint complaints. Can't remember if people had luck getting replacements that were fine after one shot or was it like the endless panel replacements that some of us have gone through?

My first 101 or 500M, can't remember which one, had DSE and I got a replacement which was perfect.
My ST30 has magenta toned left and right, the right is particularly noticeable on ANY white or grey content. Panasonic warranty didnt even call me back about it.
My ST60 has about a 1" wide vertical band thats lighter than the rest of the screen, its about 1" from the right edge of the screen. It is visible in ALL content, but isnt so bad that I care.
My OLED has no tint in the whites. The 5% slide when it had less than 5 hours had one noticeable band that I havent been able to see in content despite looking for it.

Perhaps I got lucky, but my plasma's have worst uniformity than my OLED. In perspective these arent issues that particularly bother me, some of the worse case OLED uniformity shots are brutal, and anytime I see flashlighting on an LCD I wonder how people put up with that...

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post #41 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post
My ST30 has magenta toned left and right, the right is particularly noticeable on ANY white or grey content. Panasonic warranty didnt even call me back about it.
My ST60 has about a 1" wide vertical band thats lighter than the rest of the screen, its about 1" from the right edge of the screen. It is visible in ALL content, but isnt so bad that I care.
My OLED has no tint in the whites. The 5% slide when it had less than 5 hours had one noticeable band that I havent been able to see in content despite looking for it.

Perhaps I got lucky, but my plasma's have worst uniformity than my OLED.
Interesting and a totally opposite experience for me. From Pioneers to Panasonics I never noticed any tinting or banding. My only return/replacement was the one Pioneer and that was it. Oh well.

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post #42 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 07:26 AM
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post #43 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 07:35 AM
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When I owned a 151 Kuro, that I regretfully sold back when it commanded high value because I was moving at the time and wrongfully assumed that it would be surpassed in a year or two, the only complaint I ever had about that TV was the DSE.

The Panasonic V10 I purchased in 2009, which I got several good years out of, had great uniformity and minimal DSE. No banding problems. It would develop IR rather quickly, but nothing that stuck permanently - despite gaming on it for hours and hours at a time.

Panasonic plasmas often had a "band" that would bug people. I remember my VT60 had a very faint band on the far left side that was visible in some brighter colored content, like skies, snow, or just the right shade of gray. It was annoying, but wasn't quite as jarring as spotting a bunch of jail bars on a dark gray OLED scene.

Remember when Panasonic got some bad press when people realized that the black levels were rising on their panels? Panasonic claimed it was "within spec" to cover themselves and claimed it was normal. However, a year later, they proudly boasted that their engineers "fixed the problem" on their newer sets - the problem that they claimed was previously "normal."

Nevertheless, I don't recall people returning multiple sets because of one particular issue. That was more of a recurring thing with cloudy LCDs.
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post #44 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 07:39 AM
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^ don't forget the fan noise on the last generation Panasonics - that thread made the banding thread for OLEDs look tame. Nothing was perfect, not even my Kuro. We can be stuck in the past or move forward with the future, I still remember getting a color tv

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #45 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
So black level doesn't matter. Got it.

Brb, buying an LCD.

Like i said on HD content that superior blacks will only be visible in scenes that have lots of dark in them, which are a fraction....compared to a 500M PLASMA that is. The reason why i am still with a Plasma is that aside from OLED motion problems i read to much troublesome stuff here so i wait a few more years till OLED is somewhat more STABLE. You are free to throw lots of money at it, ignoring problems and play the OLEDfanboy card at Forums like AVS...
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post #46 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 10:54 AM
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Like i said on HD content that superior blacks will only be visible in scenes that have lots of dark in them, which are a fraction....compared to a 500M PLASMA that is. The reason why i am still with a Plasma is that aside from OLED motion problems i read to much troublesome stuff here so i wait a few more years till OLED is somewhat more STABLE. You are free to throw lots of money at it, ignoring problems and play the OLEDfanboy card at Forums like AVS...

My B7 was so problematic I went out and bought a C8
Until last year I'd been a plasma owner since 2003. All that troublesome stuff is way overblown as things tend to be on AVS since those with issues tend to post a lot more than those who are happy, and a few years from now whatever technology is the latest greatest will have its share of posts on AVS pointing out its flaws. In the end, whatever makes you happy, even if its an LCD

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #47 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 11:30 AM
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I was always a huge fan of Plasma. Hate lcd/led. Once I got OLED, I don't miss plasma at all. Good riddance. Sorry, but there's no comparison.
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post #48 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 12:55 PM
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I owned 2 plasmas. My first was a Pioneer 5020. Great tv, although I had some DSE. Got into the SM and raised the ABL setting, which made the tv brighter and good for day time viewing. Sold it, and 9 years later, it is still working. Built like a tank. My other tv was the Samsung 64F8500. Another good tv, but blacks were not as good as the Pioneer. The screen had no DSE or tinting, but motion was not as good. Pretty much on par with my E6 with regards to motion.

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post #49 of 226 Old 11-01-2018, 04:19 PM
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My Loewe 38" Aconda had some blacks jacks. Too bad it went up in smoke.

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post #50 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
My B7 was so problematic I went out and bought a C8
Until last year I'd been a plasma owner since 2003. All that troublesome stuff is way overblown as things tend to be on AVS since those with issues tend to post a lot more than those who are happy, and a few years from now whatever technology is the latest greatest will have its share of posts on AVS pointing out its flaws. In the end, whatever makes you happy, even if its an LCD
Above emphasis mine. I think that a different way to look at this might be that people on AVS have attention to details similar to other people on AVS.


I have no doubt that the majority of consumers won't notice or care about slight vertical banding, about motion resolution, about buzzing PSUs and so on and so forth. But for people that visit, read and share on AVS... those are relevant points in their buying decision process. Not everybody has the money to buy a new TV on a yearly basis. And not in every country the return process is as painless as it is in the States.

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post #51 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 05:04 AM
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Above emphasis mine. I think that a different way to look at this might be that people on AVS have attention to details similar to other people on AVS.


I have no doubt that the majority of consumers won't notice or care about slight vertical banding, about motion resolution, about buzzing PSUs and so on and so forth. But for people that visit, read and share on AVS... those are relevant points in their buying decision process. Not everybody has the money to buy a new TV on a yearly basis. And not in every country the return process is as painless as it is in the States.
You frequent the plasma and LCD threads, I would hope you'd admit that most of the posts about today's display issues are coming from the same folks for the most part as there are literally have a few forum members with 1,000 posts just on banding from their 2 year old display. I think there are more than a few of us that know what to look for when it comes to a quality display and we are very happy with OLED and or today's FALD LCDs. I get it that some folks like plasma, I liked mine until I got my first OLED and had that "wow" moment. For 2018 you don't see that many posts about banding like 2017,, even then its evident on about 2% of content (like complaining about DSE or phosphor glow on the old plasma) , buzzing is limited to some C8 77" displays (my plasmas buzzed on bright scenes, had fan noise on my VT60) and motion is very subjective, so until you have one hard to pass judgement. I just don't get the need to start a thread about an old tech that has been dead for years (5 or 6 years?), why not projection tvs or DLP too Plasma had its strengths and weaknesses, no different then today's options, but if you love your plasma you'll really love infinite blacks. Let's hope that perfect display technology that has never existed comes along before your plasma goes out or you get burn-in like I did on my VT60 from the black bars on letterbox movies.


Prices have fallen greatly on OLED over the past few years. I still shudder to think what I paid for my 2003 Panny plasma (42" of glory - enhanced definition) or my 50" Kuro - both were more than a 65" OLED a few years ago. Neither of my displays are going anywhere, I have no need for HDMI 2.1 or 8k from the distances I watch either display. Carry on, maybe OLED owners will be having this same conversation if 5 years

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post #52 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 05:06 AM
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my B6 OLED is about 1% better than my Kuro 9G (modified blacks) for 1080p/SDR. 4K/HDR obviously looks a lot better but the black levels rise in most HDR applications which really looks god awful in dark scenes.
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post #53 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 05:06 AM
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Jeez I don't think I have a thousand posts on banding yet. It's good to have goals though. LOL!

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post #54 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
I'm also one who grew up on CRTs and was always drawn to the "look" of plasmas - which I always felt looked more fluid, warmer, and I don't know what the word is. Cinematic? Natural?

Then again, my Mom still has one of those tail-end HD CRTs that Sony produced at the end of their life and I still think it actually looks pretty damned good. Far better than one would expect.

Uniformity wasn't always perfect on plasmas though. I remember a lot of people getting weird pink or green tints on some models. We all like to glorify a tech once it's gone, but plasmas were never quite perfect either. Remember all those people that complained about buzzing? I loved my VT60 for the few years I owned it, but the thing was an IR magnetic to the point where it became a huge problem.

Nevertheless, I still wish the tech were around as an alternative.
Organic. Not the decomposing way OLEDs will experience over their panels lifetime but something inherent. The gas (plasma) of the display feels very familiar to what displays once were in the standard def era.
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post #55 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
My B7 was so problematic I went out and bought a C8
Until last year I'd been a plasma owner since 2003. All that troublesome stuff is way overblown as things tend to be on AVS since those with issues tend to post a lot more than those who are happy, and a few years from now whatever technology is the latest greatest will have its share of posts on AVS pointing out its flaws. In the end, whatever makes you happy, even if its an LCD
OLED lifetime only 5000 hours with OLED light at 100 is not overblown, that is what one will end up with under test conditions.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ght-100-a.html
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post #56 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 09:22 AM
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There is good reason why the last generation Kuro's are thing of TV legend.

I very recently upgraded from a plasma (Panasonic ST60) to an Panasonic OLED. Overall I think its a step in the right direction, blacker/brighter/4k/power efficient, etc. There is still some work to be done on motion, with BFI on and everything else off I find it close but not quite there. While not as wowed as I hoped the OLED is still a very nice looking set and tech, I think this is a testament for how good the better plasma's were.

There is a certain 'look' that plasma had that I liked, not sure if it was dithering, phosphor glow, or something else. Kinda like scan lines on CRT's each tech has their own feel. I also noticed a good difference in the 'look' of an ST30 and ST60 Panasonic plasma, In many ways I still prefer the ST30 even though its less black, less bright, and less colour accurate than the ST60. The OLED (with BFI and all motion enhancements off) has a certain fluidity to the motion that I also like (I believe similar to LCD screens, but i havent spent any time watching a high quality LCD)

In the end there was a myriad or reasons for plasma to be put to pasture, but its a good thing that current OLED screens are a very close competitor to the very best (modified) plasma in 1080 content. Plus OLED has the ability to do more and the tech is still young.

Side note, some of the comments on that youtube video are severely misinformed, or possibly paid for...
Well stated. I loved my various plasmas. I had a Panasonic, a KURO and then that low-cost 64" Samsung that was actually a great TV. Maybe I got lucky or whatever but its hard for me to miss my plasmas after having this 65" E6 OLED for a few years now. Mine had pretty minimal banding and just a tiny bit of right-side vignetting which interestingly got better as the set aged. Motion handling was better on all my plasmas, cant argue that. But, outside of that.....ehhh.... its hard for me to really miss anything else. And motion isnt one of my pet peeves anyways so it being an OLED weakness hardly bothers me. I suppose near black was better on my old plasmas but a lot of that has been rectified with some service menu tweaks and luminance adjustments on my OLED.

I have to say it - OLED is better than any plasma. Just no way around it. Its measurably better and Id suspect in 99% of test cases it'd be subjectively better too. The 4K with HDR/DV alone is a damned nice upgrade. The overall broghtness, better ambient room light management, modern features, etc just make the overall experience "better" , IMO. Killer 3D on my E series panel is just some gravy.

Believe me, I get it, I really do. But then.... Ive moved on and just cant look back.
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post #57 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 10:30 AM
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OLED lifetime only 5000 hours with OLED light at 100 is not overblown, that is what one will end up with under test conditions.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ght-100-a.html

Whatever makes you feel better. I admire anyone who could watch material with their backlight maxed out 100% of the time. Interesting how no one has picked this up yet ex Rtings
I've got 5 year warranties on both displays so maybe I'll get lucky and get $ towards my 16k (surely we will be at the resolution by then) upgrades. Find me one post on an owners thread where someone has returned their OLED since that thread got posted. Respect the guy who started it, but I call B.S.
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post #58 of 226 Old 11-02-2018, 01:01 PM
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Whatever makes you feel better. I admire anyone who could watch material with their backlight maxed out 100% of the time. Interesting how no one has picked this up yet ex Rtings
I've got 5 year warranties on both displays so maybe I'll get lucky and get $ towards my 16k (surely we will be at the resolution by then) upgrades. Find me one post on an owners thread where someone has returned their OLED since that thread got posted. Respect the guy who started it, but I call B.S.
Yeah, I just cant be bothered to care about super-extreme use cases like this. I never "play" in that realm. My HDR and Dolby Vision OLED Light settings are at like 92 or 95 but thats for movies and an occasonal TV show. Even so.... its like 8-12 hours a week, tops. Its not all day long with everything else cranked up. Its not with CNN or some other useless channel running all day.

If I get 10 years out of the TV then I call it winning. Probably only 6-7 years max before I end up wanting something else. I dunno. Im tired of these torture tests and the results that seem to send people into shock.
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post #59 of 226 Old 11-03-2018, 08:12 AM
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It is your money do whatever you want with it folks.
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post #60 of 226 Old 11-03-2018, 10:09 AM
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I'm looking to purchase my first OLED. My 65" plasma bit the dust (VT50), the main board is gone which I have sent away to get replaced. If it doesn't get fixed I will really miss it. It's unfortunate when you dish out 6 grand on a TV and it only lasts 6 years (my first only 4 years but had extended warranty). My old 42" 720p plasma is still kicking. I still game a lot and my Xbox One X looked and played great on that plasma. Anyways I'm looking to get either a 65 A1E or A8F on black Friday. I was considering a Z9D but going to stay with OLED.

Last edited by Razor*; 11-04-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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