2018 Sony A8F Discussion Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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2018 Sony A8F Discussion Thread

Hello everybody,

I am starting a new thread dedicated to the 2018 Sony A8F.
Unlike other threads here, I welcome an open dialog between current A8F owners, prospective A8F owners and other OLED tv owners that will contribute to a better understanding of and an enhanced user experience using this particular set.

Thank you,
Ion
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post #2 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Role of tone mapping

From what I understood so far the A8F lacks tone mapping while sets like the C8 or the A9F have it. My questions in regards to this would be:
1. How would this affect viewing of SDR content and HDR content?
2. When people refer to C8 and A9F tone mapping do they actually mean dynamic tone mapping?
3. Does the A8F actuayhas static tone mapping but lacks the dynamic tone mapping?
TIA,
-Ion
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post #3 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion.jorj View Post
From what I understood so far the A8F lacks tone mapping while sets like the C8 or the A9F have it. My questions in regards to this would be:
1. How would this affect viewing of SDR content and HDR content?
2. When people refer to C8 and A9F tone mapping do they actually mean dynamic tone mapping?
3. Does the A8F actuayhas static tone mapping but lacks the dynamic tone mapping?
TIA,
-Ion
1.) I sent you a PM after your post in the other thread got removed

2.) When people refer to C8 and A9F tone mapping they are referring to LG and Sony's own proprietary algorithm that they use for HDR10 content. Even though HDR10 uses static metadata LG and Sony's tone mapping algorithm imitates/simulates dynamic metadata so it can make HDR 10 Blu rays/Streamed content look like Dolby Vision lite for lack of a better term. It's better than Standard static HDR 10 without tone mapping but not as good as true dynamic tone mapped content (Dolby Vision)

3.) If the A8F behaves like the A1E then for a 4k HDR10 Blu ray disk it will process/show the static data of the HDR10 disk without making changes to the data/scenes in the movie to make it look like Dolby Vision lite. The Sony A8F supports Dolby Vision so the only time lack of tone mapping will come into play is for HDR 10 only content and HDR gaming (There are rumors that upcoming systems/games will support DV).
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post #4 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you statealum.
So if I understand correctly Dolby Vision content should pretty much look similar on C8, A8F and A9F (provided they are adjusted for the same peak brightness).
Is tone mapping also used to enhance SDR content in the C8 and A9F or there is no such thing as tone mapping for SDR?


The reason I'm asking these questions is to better understand what I'm missing out if I get an A8F versus the more expensive A9F in regard to tone mapping.
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post #5 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 08:39 PM
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-In theory it should look similar but it's been well documented that there are some issues with Dolby Vision on the Sony televisions. It's been noted that on the Sony dolby vision can show more posterization and appears darker than it should be. Hopefully Sony and Dolby will fix the issue with a future firmware update.

-On my Sony A1E I do notice the posterization in Dolby Vision but overall I still feel it looks great. I have tested Dolby Vision using the netflix app on the television.

-Tone mapping is not used to enhance SDR content on the LG C8. It's only for HDR10 content. SDR content is not mastered with the same brightness as HDR10 so tone mapping is not needed for SDR.

-The Sony A9F has less aggressive ABL, tone mapping, more responsive android system, stronger processor, and lower gaming input lag compared to the A8F
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post #6 of 27 Old 11-20-2018, 09:36 PM
 
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sony tv's use a player led profile for dolby vision, lg oleds use a tv led profile for dolby vision.and according to vincent teoh, the DV on lg is more impactful. With the lg oleds and the tv led profle, unlike sony tv's, the chip inside the tv is handling all the dolby vision processing.
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post #7 of 27 Old 11-22-2018, 05:07 PM
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Once the player led profile is fully optimized it will be interesting to see how it compares to the tv led profile.

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post #8 of 27 Old 11-23-2018, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion.jorj View Post
From what I understood so far the A8F lacks tone mapping while sets like the C8 or the A9F have it. My questions in regards to this would be:
1. How would this affect viewing of SDR content and HDR content?
2. When people refer to C8 and A9F tone mapping do they actually mean dynamic tone mapping?
3. Does the A8F actuayhas static tone mapping but lacks the dynamic tone mapping?
TIA,
-Ion

The A1E, A8F, A9F, C7, C8, etc all have dynamic metadata creation. They do it differently and people argue over which choice looks better for different content but they all have it. They all have different ways of tone mapping the result too, with some choosing to clip high brightness content and others choosing a more gently roll off. Firmware updates have even changed the algorithms in some cases (usually for the better, but again, people argue over that).


Now in game mode that is a different story, since to reduce latency a lot of that stuff is turned off. I believe the C8 and A9F can handle that better with faster processors, but I haven't been keeping track of the details too much on that.

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post #9 of 27 Old 11-23-2018, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by statealum View Post
Once the player led profile is fully optimized it will be interesting to see how it compares to the tv led profile.
If Sony has opted for player led profile then it has to be better and more future worthy. Sony have a much better sense for the adoption of a particular technology IMHO, thats why they didn't choose TV led profile.

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post #10 of 27 Old 11-25-2018, 07:11 AM
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If Sony has opted for player led profile then it has to be better and more future worthy. Sony have a much better sense for the adoption of a particular technology IMHO, thats why they didn't choose TV led profile.


Not really it’s more a product of poor planning on Sony’s part they choose initially not to support a hardware only implementation . Credit to them for stepping up and offering a player led version but I don’t think it is some master planning on
Sony’s part .



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post #11 of 27 Old 11-30-2018, 10:47 AM
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choice time...

first off...apologies to everyone who had to read this post in another thread before i asked for it to deleted!
as always, it can be like searching through a haystack to find the thread that already exists.



here goes:


hi, all...


i'm in the middle of a sophie's choice of oleds.


looong time panny owner whose time came up after 13 years. she gave up the gorgeous ghost of PQ past.



i'm currently attempting to decide between the lg e8 and the sony a8f - heck, maybe even the a9f if reason shows itself to be sound enough.



neither panel/technology is perfect, i'm sure all will be great, though.
there's a $200 difference between them that is nominal for me, excepting the a9f. that's about another grand.
i have credit at B&H i'd like to use. BUT, with their no return policy...i'm going to need more info than i may usually flex before making a decision.



of concern to me:
the lg suffers from the stuttering issue with pans. it seems some have dealt with it well enough. but, it also seems like it's one of those things that affects some more than others.
how does it do with sports via a stb or streaming?



the sony a8f seems to not be as bright, but may also over compensate for the stutter with soaping effect. does the a9f also have this?



what say you? are there other issues i may be missing?
the panny died the day after cyber monday. so, i missed any black friday and monday deals. however, the prices currently standing for all but the a9f seem reasonable.



ps...all of this will be going through a marantz sr7009 with 2 front totem speakers.
twc dvr, br player, and roku attached.


thanks, everyone!!!
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post #12 of 27 Old 11-30-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shareknow View Post
If Sony has opted for player led profile then it has to be better and more future worthy. Sony have a much better sense for the adoption of a particular technology IMHO, thats why they didn't choose TV led profile.
It's been implied that Sony implemented a player led profile because they did not have the ability at the time to implement a hardware/display led implementation. Sony still deserves credit for offering some form of Dolby Vision to their customers since some other manufacturers still do not offer it.

I have to lol at your comment that Sony has a better sense for the adoption of a particular technology given their history (betamax, universal media disk/umd, memory stick, etc). They have had some misses to go along with their success when it comes to reading the market.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j7f View Post
first off...apologies to everyone who had to read this post in another thread before i asked for it to deleted!
as always, it can be like searching through a haystack to find the thread that already exists.



here goes:


hi, all...


i'm in the middle of a sophie's choice of oleds.


looong time panny owner whose time came up after 13 years. she gave up the gorgeous ghost of PQ past.



i'm currently attempting to decide between the lg e8 and the sony a8f - heck, maybe even the a9f if reason shows itself to be sound enough.



neither panel/technology is perfect, i'm sure all will be great, though.
there's a $200 difference between them that is nominal for me, excepting the a9f. that's about another grand.
i have credit at B&H i'd like to use. BUT, with their no return policy...i'm going to need more info than i may usually flex before making a decision.



of concern to me:
the lg suffers from the stuttering issue with pans. it seems some have dealt with it well enough. but, it also seems like it's one of those things that affects some more than others.
how does it do with sports via a stb or streaming?



the sony a8f seems to not be as bright, but may also over compensate for the stutter with soaping effect. does the a9f also have this?



what say you? are there other issues i may be missing?
the panny died the day after cyber monday. so, i missed any black friday and monday deals. however, the prices currently standing for all but the a9f seem reasonable.



ps...all of this will be going through a marantz sr7009 with 2 front totem speakers.
twc dvr, br player, and roku attached.


thanks, everyone!!!
Not sure where you are placing your Oled but having just taken delivery on a 65 A8F that sits on a table in my small media room I can say the stand the A8F is on is the best I have ever seen. Small with low profile it holds the display well yet disappears .All you see is a beautiful picture

Matt
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post #14 of 27 Old 12-01-2018, 09:11 PM
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Not sure where you are placing your Oled but having just taken delivery on a 65 A8F that sits on a table in my small media room I can say the stand the A8F is on is the best I have ever seen. Small with low profile it holds the display well yet disappears .All you see is a beautiful picture

i'll be mounting it in my family room. lots of windows, lots of light during the day. not much daytime viewing, however. standard nighttime viewing. a show here and there most nights.
'flix, hd stb and brd player.



still sitting on my end of the world trying to decide btn the a8f/a9f and the c8.


losing a little more hair each time i think about it.
ha.
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i'll be mounting it in my family room. lots of windows, lots of light during the day. not much daytime viewing, however. standard nighttime viewing. a show here and there most nights.
'flix, hd stb and brd player.



still sitting on my end of the world trying to decide btn the a8f/a9f and the c8.


losing a little more hair each time i think about it.
ha.
-Since you are coming from a 13 year old plasma to your first Oled there is no wrong choice. Any of the Oleds you listed will be a massive upgrade from what you owned previously.

-However looking at the devices you have listed (time warner cable dvr, blu ray player, roku, etc) and the fact that you are going to hook it up to your Marantz that doesn't support HDR implies that at this time you don't intend to view much if any 4k or HDR content. If that is the case then you should probably go with one of the Sony Oled's since it still has the edge when it comes to cleaning up compressed sdr content like cable.

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post #16 of 27 Old 12-03-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by statealum View Post
-Since you are coming from a 13 year old plasma to your first Oled there is no wrong choice. Any of the Oleds you listed will be a massive upgrade from what you owned previously.

-However looking at the devices you have listed (time warner cable dvr, blu ray player, roku, etc) and the fact that you are going to hook it up to your Marantz that doesn't support HDR implies that at this time you don't intend to view much if any 4k or HDR content. If that is the case then you should probably go with one of the Sony Oled's since it still has the edge when it comes to cleaning up compressed sdr content like cable.

you know what's funny? that 13 yr old plasma had really nice pq. specially for hd stb source. but, i agree, i'm sure the pq will be stunning on the oled. my biggest fear is the motion/stuttering/juddering issue. we'll see. i'm still on the fence on which model. c8 or a8f/a9f.


hmmph, super bummed that i won't be able to use my roku ultra through my marantz. my wife is going to hate me when i tell her i may have to go out and get another avr. i mean, what's the point, right? ironically enough, i got the marantz specifically to run an old school turn table from the 70's. imagine getting something updated to run something analog only to run into a future -proof problem!


i'll keep reading. there seem to be some folks on the the marantz thread who have a work around for the hdr issue.


we'll see.


thanks, again, btw! super helpful stuff.
as always, i love this forum.


btw, what is the general consensus of the rtings.com site?
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post #17 of 27 Old 12-04-2018, 05:40 AM
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you know what's funny? that 13 yr old plasma had really nice pq. specially for hd stb source. but, i agree, i'm sure the pq will be stunning on the oled. my biggest fear is the motion/stuttering/juddering issue. we'll see. i'm still on the fence on which model. c8 or a8f/a9f.


hmmph, super bummed that i won't be able to use my roku ultra through my marantz. my wife is going to hate me when i tell her i may have to go out and get another avr. i mean, what's the point, right? ironically enough, i got the marantz specifically to run an old school turn table from the 70's. imagine getting something updated to run something analog only to run into a future -proof problem!


i'll keep reading. there seem to be some folks on the the marantz thread who have a work around for the hdr issue.


we'll see.


thanks, again, btw! super helpful stuff.
as always, i love this forum.


btw, what is the general consensus of the rtings.com site?


Rtings is really good for comparing tvs , reviews aren’t very technical but overall it is a good site imo .


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post #18 of 27 Old 12-04-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by j7f View Post
you know what's funny? that 13 yr old plasma had really nice pq. specially for hd stb source. but, i agree, i'm sure the pq will be stunning on the oled. my biggest fear is the motion/stuttering/juddering issue. we'll see. i'm still on the fence on which model. c8 or a8f/a9f.

hmmph, super bummed that i won't be able to use my roku ultra through my marantz. my wife is going to hate me when i tell her i may have to go out and get another avr. i mean, what's the point, right? ironically enough, i got the marantz specifically to run an old school turn table from the 70's. imagine getting something updated to run something analog only to run into a future -proof problem!

i'll keep reading. there seem to be some folks on the the marantz thread who have a work around for the hdr issue.

we'll see.

thanks, again, btw! super helpful stuff.
as always, i love this forum.

btw, what is the general consensus of the rtings.com site?

Some people think rtings are experts that do everything right and others consider their opinions a joke.


Which Marantz do you have? I did replace my 5007 with a 6012 to get DV and HDMI 2.0 and all that supported when I got my A1E.

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you know what's funny? that 13 yr old plasma had really nice pq. specially for hd stb source. but, i agree, i'm sure the pq will be stunning on the oled. my biggest fear is the motion/stuttering/juddering issue. we'll see. i'm still on the fence on which model. c8 or a8f/a9f.


hmmph, super bummed that i won't be able to use my roku ultra through my marantz. my wife is going to hate me when i tell her i may have to go out and get another avr. i mean, what's the point, right? ironically enough, i got the marantz specifically to run an old school turn table from the 70's. imagine getting something updated to run something analog only to run into a future -proof problem!


i'll keep reading. there seem to be some folks on the the marantz thread who have a work around for the hdr issue.


we'll see.


btw, what is the general consensus of the rtings.com site?
-To get HDR material to work on your Roku you would need to hook the Roku directly to your new 4k television. You would have to use the input button on your television remote to switch to it instead of your receiver but at least you would not need to replace the receiver.

-I use rtings to get general data like hdr peak brightness, hdr sustained brightness, input lag, etc. I use hdtv test to get a more complete description of how televisions perform (their behavior) when presented with different types of content. I also look at flatpanelshd and avforums to a lesser extent.

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post #20 of 27 Old 12-04-2018, 07:37 PM
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Some people think rtings are experts that do everything right and others consider their opinions a joke.


Which Marantz do you have? I did replace my 5007 with a 6012 to get DV and HDMI 2.0 and all that supported when I got my A1E.

i have the marantz sr-7009. i've honestly really enjoyed it. it's a great piece of equipment.
it's solid. i bought it specifically to run my technics turntable.
i'm annoyed that i may have to replace it. but, brightened at the prospect of a new piece of equipment. i am a tech head, afterall.

the queen is dead, long live the queen!
ha.


thanks everyone for their perspectives on all the sites.
it helps.
i think i'm leaning towards the a9f.
we'll see.
i like the value of the c8, though.


but, i don't want to have to buy anything else for another 10 years.
unless microled really blows the roof off the joint.
;->


cheers!
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post #21 of 27 Old 12-13-2018, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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A8F price reduced

I found it surprising to see the A8F price go down after BF, is it to boost weaker than expected sales or is it a sign of an impending successor announcement? OTOH the X900F had the price lowered for BF and now it’s back up.
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post #22 of 27 Old 12-15-2018, 10:01 PM
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Subscribing once again.

Spoiler!
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post #23 of 27 Old 12-15-2018, 10:23 PM
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Kudos to you for the open intent of the thread.
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post #24 of 27 Old 12-15-2018, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shareknow View Post
If Sony has opted for player led profile then it has to be better and more future worthy. Sony have a much better sense for the adoption of a particular technology IMHO, thats why they didn't choose TV led profile.
My 2016 LG OLEDs were futureproofed better than any TV I've owned in the recent past thanks to their decision to corroborate with Dolby. That plus the 3D support make it a 10-year set at the minimum in my case. Sony's decision probably pertained to retaining more control over video processing outside of DV.
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post #25 of 27 Old 12-17-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
My 2016 LG OLEDs were futureproofed better than any TV I've owned in the recent past thanks to their decision to corroborate with Dolby. That plus the 3D support make it a 10-year set at the minimum in my case. Sony's decision probably pertained to retaining more control over video processing outside of DV.

Slightly unfortunate the DV is limited to 30Hz on the 2016s, but at least that's good enough for 24fps movies.

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post #26 of 27 Old 12-17-2018, 12:27 PM
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Don't remind me. At least there are workarounds, though not without visual compromise.
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post #27 of 27 Old 06-23-2019, 10:22 PM
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Hi guys! New owner here. I am expperiencing issue streaming through prime video internal appp. I couldn’t play some movies (problem occured, we’re unable to play your video at this moment), but some movies worked. However, when i stream through apple tv, i am able to play all the movies.

I have reached out to prime videos support 3 times but the issue still persists. I also have updated my TV firmware to the latest update (6529 in my region), including few times of deregistering device, but still not woking.

Any advice would be much appreciated
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