Plasma fanboy with limited viewing habits -- is OLED a mistake? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 69 Old 12-24-2018, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Sometimes you don't really appreciate the picture on a OLED until you watch something you've seen many, many times and you know the picture like the back of your hand. We watched National Lampoon's Christmas
Vacation last night (an annual family tradition) on Directv and the picture never looked better, in terms of resolution, black level, contrast, color, etc. It was a noticeable difference on my LG C8 compared to my previous plasma.
So true - we are doing the usual Star Wars marathon during the holiday break and Ive watched them all about 10,000 times each, lol.

I can say that they've never looked better than on my OLED. Not even close to any other TV Ive owned.
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post #32 of 69 Old 12-24-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Sometimes you don't really appreciate the picture on a OLED until you watch something you've seen many, many times and you know the picture like the back of your hand. We watched National Lampoon's Christmas
Vacation last night (an annual family tradition) on Directv and the picture never looked better, in terms of resolution, black level, contrast, color, etc. It was a noticeable difference on my LG C8 compared to my previous plasma.
Speaking of appreciating the OLED picture, my first week with the OLED it was better but not the immediate impact i hoped for. Now that I'm used to the OLED and cycle between watching TV on it, an ST30 plasma, a ST60 plasma, and occasionally on a really old LCD, my impression of things had really shifted, the ST60 looks just ok, the st30 plasma is washed out like I used to think of the old LCD. The more I watch it the happier I am with OLED.
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post #33 of 69 Old 12-28-2018, 10:38 AM
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I've owned many plasmas - several Kuros, a Panasonic and a Samsung - and overall my 2017 LG OLED beats them easily. Motion handling is clearly worse but the OLED is better in every other respect - color reproduction, much more consistent brightness, resolution, and lack of noise.

I think someone's description of an OLED as an "LCD with perfect blacks and viewing angles" is completely accurate, but also very compelling. The only thing I'm missing is BFI but that's not enough for me to upgrade to a newer model.
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post #34 of 69 Old 12-28-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post
I've owned many plasmas - several Kuros, a Panasonic and a Samsung - and overall my 2017 LG OLED beats them easily. Motion handling is clearly worse but the OLED is better in every other respect - color reproduction, much more consistent brightness, resolution, and lack of noise.

I think someone's description of an OLED as an "LCD with perfect blacks and viewing angles" is completely accurate, but also very compelling. The only thing I'm missing is BFI but that's not enough for me to upgrade to a newer model.
Motion is the most important aspect for me followed by color accuracy and contrast. I think I'll be hanging on to my plasma for as long as possible.
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post #35 of 69 Old 12-28-2018, 04:20 PM
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My UHD disc library is over 150 titles (plus another 150+ titles on 1080p disc) since the 65” OLED purchase in February... and I definitely wouldn’t have spent what I’ve spent if I were still watching the 42” 1080p Panny plasma.
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post #36 of 69 Old 12-28-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post

My UHD disc library is over 150 titles (plus another 150+ titles on 1080p disc) since the 65” OLED purchase in February... and I definitely wouldn’t have spent what I’ve spent if I were still watching the 42” 1080p Panny plasma.
Wow impressive collection of Blu-ray Discs. You must have a bookcase full of them.
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post #37 of 69 Old 12-29-2018, 12:08 PM
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I would feel ripped off on some poorly graded 4K discs if I bought that many (I already have a few that show the panel defects). Bliss is great if you can attain it.
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post #38 of 69 Old 12-29-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I would feel ripped off on some poorly graded 4K discs if I bought that many (I already have a few that show the panel defects). Bliss is great if you can attain it.
Color grading in Hollywood has become a complete farce. It makes all of the effort that we put into calibrating our TVs almost become redundant.
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post #39 of 69 Old 12-29-2018, 05:59 PM
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I would feel ripped off on some poorly graded 4K discs if I bought that many (I already have a few that show the panel defects). Bliss is great if you can attain it.

I don't feel ripped off... for the most part I've stuck to the $20 ballpark for 4K discs and I usually read the reviews beforehand. I've gotten a ton of them for less than $15 and I'd say only a dozen or so I paid $25-$30 for.


As for 1080p blue rays... less than $10 is my goal and I usually get there unless it's a new release. I cleaned up on BF as I said... saving over 60% on a cart full of titles. Some purchases are easy to make... American Pie 4 disc set for $12... 7 disc Nightmare on Elm St set for $22... 7 disc Fast and Furious set for $32.... I've built a solid collection that will be pushing 400 titles soon by not passing up deals like that.

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post #40 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 03:37 AM
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It all comes down to BFI and how much they can improve it, it mimics Plasma, but right now it just adds too much flicker on OLEDs... it works well on the high end LCDs though.
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post #41 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 06:17 AM
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I have a 77G6P and only had plasmas before including the ZT60. Everyone keeps saying motion handling on plasmas is better.. if that's the case its so mild that its not a breaker for me, and I am very motion sensitive. I just watched some HDR 4k content and played some Xbox one X last night, no blur, no lag, nothing.. I think in some regards its actually smoother then my previously owned zt60. Definitely for gaming better input lag
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post #42 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 08:37 AM
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There is a significant difference is between natural motion in a plasma vs. smooth motion from sample and hold displays like OLEDs and LCDs. Sample and hold displays require processing to smooth the transitions between static frames and therein lies the problem. Some, like me, are very sensitive to this, others not so much. To my eye, nothing looks more natural than a plasma while sample and hold displays inevitably, at some point, will either make me queasy from SOE or jumpy from random stutter or judder, or from BFI introduced flicker. Then there are those that don't notice flicker or judder and others who actually love SOE. Plus each manufacturer implements motion processing in a somewhat different manner with differing levels of user control. Often you have to adjust these controls differently based on source/content: for example having unique settings for cable/satellite sports and TV watching vs. 24p Blu-ray player movies vs. a video game box. So each person has to make their own judgement on motion processing and how much effort they are willing to put in to get it right for them.

Motion issues aside, a 4K HDR OLED will provide a far improved PQ over an older plasma. Unfortunately, we're not looking at static images so motion has a significant impact on the overall viewing experience. So, while I would like to replace my 10-year old plasma with 30,000 hours on it with an OLED some day, I'll pass for now.
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post #43 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 08:56 AM
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Went from a VT60 to a C8...

The difference is night and day. Loved my VT and still do, but it gets its ass kicked by my C8 in nearly every respect.
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post #44 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
There is a significant difference is between natural motion in a plasma vs. smooth motion from sample and hold displays like OLEDs and LCDs. Sample and hold displays require processing to smooth the transitions between static frames and therein lies the problem. Some, like me, are very sensitive to this, others not so much. To my eye, nothing looks more natural than a plasma while sample and hold displays inevitably, at some point, will either make me queasy from SOE or jumpy from random stutter or judder, or from BFI introduced flicker. Then there are those that don't notice flicker or judder and others who actually love SOE. Plus each manufacturer implements motion processing in a somewhat different manner with differing levels of user control. Often you have to adjust these controls differently based on source/content: for example having unique settings for cable/satellite sports and TV watching vs. 24p Blu-ray player movies vs. a video game box. So each person has to make their own judgement on motion processing and how much effort they are willing to put in to get it right for them.

Motion issues aside, a 4K HDR OLED will provide a far improved PQ over an older plasma. Unfortunately, we're not looking at static images so motion has a significant impact on the overall viewing experience. So, while I would like to replace my 10-year old plasma with 30,000 hours on it with an OLED some day, I'll pass for now.
You never saw motion on a sony wega trinitron tv? It's all about the lowest motion persistence to give the natural movement and CRT was number one in regards to low motion persistence, better than plasma. With sample and hold displays, they have to add motion processing to make it smoother but added motion processing just gives a artificial look to the movement, not the natural feel that plasma and CRT gave. Another display type that gives natural movement with movie based content is DLP, is why cinemas use those projectors.
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post #45 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 01:23 PM
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You never saw motion on a sony wega trinitron tv? It's all about the lowest motion persistence to give the natural movement and CRT was number one in regards to low motion persistence, better than plasma.
Yes, it's kind of ironic, if you think about it. Technology born to show moving images has progressed in pretty much every aspect, except motion reproduction.

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post #46 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 01:51 PM
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You never saw motion on a sony wega trinitron tv? It's all about the lowest motion persistence to give the natural movement and CRT was number one in regards to low motion persistence, better than plasma. With sample and hold displays, they have to add motion processing to make it smoother but added motion processing just gives a artificial look to the movement, not the natural feel that plasma and CRT gave. Another display type that gives natural movement with movie based content is DLP, is why cinemas use those projectors.
The topic was related to plasmas but I also had a Samsung DLP I watched football on for 12 years and it too had very natural motion. Never owned any Sony TV as they were always over priced compared to the competition. I replaced the DLP recently with a $550 65" Samsung LCD which I've been dorking with to get the motion control dialed in. Football looked OK on it today so I'll see if it's passable on other content. The colors on it are very accurate and the black level is superb which is great for a basement setting. The DLP's blacks were more like a dark purple.
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post #47 of 69 Old 12-30-2018, 09:26 PM
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Don't Plasma TVs have perfect off viewing angles than OLEDs? I've seen OLEDs suffer a small loss of color and luminescence as you view it at an angle while Plasmas TVs and CRTs don't have that at all. Don't get me wrong, OLED is still miles ahead than any LCD TV when it comes to off viewing angle performance, but not perfect.

I still have my Panasonic ST60 and I'm just not ready to replace it just yet until it either breaks down or when OLEDs get a little better in the next two years.

Also CRTs are the king when it comes to motion handling. I can see far less motion blur than my Plasma.
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post #48 of 69 Old 12-31-2018, 06:45 AM
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Ok I just spent the last 4 hours watching all sorts of material on my 77g6p. Mind you I have plasmas all throughout my house. I watched 1080p content, HDR/4K content, TV content, Xbox one X games.. there is no lag, no blurring, no stuttering, no judder that is any worse then any of my plasmas. In fact, I would say in some circumstances the picture is actually more sharp/clear and less blurring. Now that I have wasted all this time to confirm this, I no longer have to look at these wasteful posts about plasmas/CRts vs this and that.. I'm done
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post #49 of 69 Old 12-31-2018, 06:58 AM
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Ok I just spent the last 4 hours watching all sorts of material on my 77g6p. Mind you I have plasmas all throughout my house. I watched 1080p content, HDR/4K content, TV content, Xbox one X games.. there is no lag, no blurring, no stuttering, no judder that is any worse then any of my plasmas. In fact, I would say in some circumstances the picture is actually more sharp/clear and less blurring. Now that I have wasted all this time to confirm this, I no longer have to look at these wasteful posts about plasmas/CRts vs this and that.. I'm done
Same with me. Football on my OLED is, too me, better than football on my son's Panasonic plasma. Motion looks the same to me and the plasma is not as sharp.

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post #50 of 69 Old 12-31-2018, 08:46 PM
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I would suggest that anyone with a good Plasma, F8500, last of the Panasonic's, Pioneer etc hold on to them for another year or so. Having had 3-4 Panasonics myself, and just moved my F8500 to my bedroom and put in a C8, I'm not blown away with the upgrade. Feed it 4k, HDR, and it's impressive, no doubt. Some 4k stuff is stunning, even youtube, but it's really limited material but it is getting better which is what I was banking on. Scaling isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, 1080p looks quite good, 720 not so much, but it's not horrible but Plasma was clearly better at dvd/720/1080i and most certainly - motion. I'm also not blown away with brightness. I thought the C8 would be a noticeable upgrade over the F8500 for brightness, but once I calibrated everything ( not a pro calibrator, just basic settings ) unless you put the OLED in 100 OLED mode/85 contrast etc, which to me is only asking for burn in, it's not brighter. It can be, but I could turn the F8500 to be blinding too if I want everything over exposed. Granted, the F8500 was the brightest plasma in its day, and it till this day has a fantastic picture with everything I toss at it. I just spent an hour watching it in bed and after looking at the C8 every day for over a month I was like, darn, this still looks really good. Certainly no macroblocking or gal gadot syndrome lol. Toss in the panel lottery on any LCD/ OLED right now.....my advice, wait. It is pathetic that any TV of this price range isn't anything but perfect.


Do not buy anything if you have a good plasma. It's not worth it. 4k is a bit of a joke right now. Honestly, 4k Netflix doesn't look that much better than 1080p Netflix on my plasma and I'm 9 feet away from my 65". Yes it looks "better" but 3 or 4 grand better, nah. Wait. I had to redo my TV wall for the woman, install some barn wood stuff for her which meant run new wires, so I said if I got to do these reno's anyways I might as well toss a new TV there because if the plasma died, running cables later would have been a PITA. I game, have PC on it, lots of movies etc. It's used for everything, so far, not blown away, more of a sideways upgrade to me. I know I'm flip flopping on saying yes its awesome, no it isn't, but that's exactly how I feel about the new C8 compared to my F8500. I'm no Samsung fan, but they did something right with that Plasma and only that plasma because I hated the other Samsung Plasma's, and the last Panasonics were fantastic - I just couldn't find any left when they announced "THE END" so I grabbed the then new F8500 so I wouldn't be stuck with a LCD if my Panasonic died. I did not get any time to see a Q9fn, Q8fn yes, hated it, but would have liked to have seen a Q9fn in person. But, their forums are full of issues as well, again, panel lottery, just not worth it.
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post #51 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 05:06 AM
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I must admit it is posts like this that cause me to wait on upgrading my 64” F8500 to an OLED. The picture on my F8500 is still amazing on cable, Blu Ray and ATV. But I will still be interested in what 2019 brings as I would like to see what HDR brings to my viewing experience probably more than the 4K upgrade.

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post #52 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 05:18 AM
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I must admit it is posts like this that cause me to wait on upgrading my 64” F8500 to an OLED. The picture on my F8500 is still amazing on cable, Blu Ray and ATV. But I will still be interested in what 2019 brings as I would like to see what HDR brings to my viewing experience probably more than the 4K upgrade.
I would have still had my 60vt60, but got a new in the box never used Sony 65" A1E for $2800 back in Aug of 2017 so i could not pass that up at that price. I would have never paid full price. I would be fine today if i still had my 60vt60 as i don't watch 4k. I will say the OLED is better at everything over my 60vt60, but not leaps better.

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post #53 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 06:46 AM
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I agree, those post always give me pause too. I wish networks would start rolling out 4k network tv for at least sports and their popular shows, as that would get me more excited about. It seems to be taking much longer than HD did.

I do agree that OLED's definitely have better color, brighter and better blacks, but still on the fence upgrading from my Kuro. My Kuro is still very good and normal tv viewing, especially sports. If I upgraded today, it would only be for the Sony A9F, but will wait and see what CES brings.

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I must admit it is posts like this that cause me to wait on upgrading my 64” F8500 to an OLED. The picture on my F8500 is still amazing on cable, Blu Ray and ATV. But I will still be interested in what 2019 brings as I would like to see what HDR brings to my viewing experience probably more than the 4K upgrade.

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post #54 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 06:57 AM
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Yes if the BBC does move to broadcast in HLG - it has done a few trials by iPlayer - which by all accounts have been spectacular - then I would probably move to OLED. But no sign of that so far in the UK.

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post #55 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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I agree, those post always give me pause too. I wish networks would start rolling out 4k network tv for at least sports and their popular shows, as that would get me more excited about. It seems to be taking much longer than HD did.

I do agree that OLED's definitely have better color, brighter and better blacks, but still on the fence upgrading from my Kuro. My Kuro is still very good and normal tv viewing, especially sports. If I upgraded today, it would only be for the Sony A9F, but will wait and see what CES brings.
I would just like to see 1080p OTA= HD. tired of crappy 480i on most chans.

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post #56 of 69 Old 01-01-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post
I would suggest that anyone with a good Plasma, F8500, last of the Panasonic's, Pioneer etc hold on to them for another year or so. Having had 3-4 Panasonics myself, and just moved my F8500 to my bedroom and put in a C8, I'm not blown away with the upgrade. Feed it 4k, HDR, and it's impressive, no doubt. Some 4k stuff is stunning, even youtube, but it's really limited material but it is getting better which is what I was banking on. Scaling isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, 1080p looks quite good, 720 not so much, but it's not horrible but Plasma was clearly better at dvd/720/1080i and most certainly - motion. I'm also not blown away with brightness. I thought the C8 would be a noticeable upgrade over the F8500 for brightness, but once I calibrated everything ( not a pro calibrator, just basic settings ) unless you put the OLED in 100 OLED mode/85 contrast etc, which to me is only asking for burn in, it's not brighter. It can be, but I could turn the F8500 to be blinding too if I want everything over exposed. Granted, the F8500 was the brightest plasma in its day, and it till this day has a fantastic picture with everything I toss at it. I just spent an hour watching it in bed and after looking at the C8 every day for over a month I was like, darn, this still looks really good. Certainly no macroblocking or gal gadot syndrome lol. Toss in the panel lottery on any LCD/ OLED right now.....my advice, wait. It is pathetic that any TV of this price range isn't anything but perfect.


Do not buy anything if you have a good plasma. It's not worth it. 4k is a bit of a joke right now. Honestly, 4k Netflix doesn't look that much better than 1080p Netflix on my plasma and I'm 9 feet away from my 65". Yes it looks "better" but 3 or 4 grand better, nah. Wait. I had to redo my TV wall for the woman, install some barn wood stuff for her which meant run new wires, so I said if I got to do these reno's anyways I might as well toss a new TV there because if the plasma died, running cables later would have been a PITA. I game, have PC on it, lots of movies etc. It's used for everything, so far, not blown away, more of a sideways upgrade to me. I know I'm flip flopping on saying yes its awesome, no it isn't, but that's exactly how I feel about the new C8 compared to my F8500. I'm no Samsung fan, but they did something right with that Plasma and only that plasma because I hated the other Samsung Plasma's, and the last Panasonics were fantastic - I just couldn't find any left when they announced "THE END" so I grabbed the then new F8500 so I wouldn't be stuck with a LCD if my Panasonic died. I did not get any time to see a Q9fn, Q8fn yes, hated it, but would have liked to have seen a Q9fn in person. But, their forums are full of issues as well, again, panel lottery, just not worth it.
Im surprised about the gaming comments Gaming (XBOX/Ps4/PC games) are far superior on my OLED then any plasma. The graphics are crips, no blurring, and lag is far superior (except for maybe my old gt50, that was a fast plasma). This is the major reason I changed from my zt60 to the 77g6p. The graphics are superior. I love it. Given that the blacks, the colors that pop, brightness etc, Im pretty happy with OLED so far.
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post #57 of 69 Old 01-30-2019, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to update this thread, having been a Sony 65 A8F owner for almost a month now. In short, I am very happy with my decision to replace the Pioneer Kuro plasma with the Sony OLED.

The OLED is superior in virtually every way. Of course 4k/HDR content is significantly better on the OLED, but most of my viewing is 1080i/720p cable/OTA, and more sports than movies. Happy to report that the improvement is noticeable. There isn't as drastic an improvement as with 4k/HDR content, but it is absolutely better than the old plasma, and I have no motion issues. Not one time have I watched 4k/HDR/1080/720/OTA content and thought 'jeez, the plasma did this better.' As for brightness, maybe it's because I'm coming from plasma, but I cannot figure out how people can say that the Sony isn't bright enough. I initially tried the rtings.com recommended settings and I thought my eyeballs were burning. TOO BRIGHT. Maybe people coming from LCD have a different baseline, but brightness and color are terrific.

The one negative I have won't affect most people. I sometimes will watch a random movie or show on a non-HD cable channel. With the Kuro, I knew it wasn't HD and didn't look great, but the Kuro upscaler did a great job and allowed me to forget the mediocre quality and enjoy the show. The OLED was just not made to handle the low quality stuff and it is unwatchable. Not a huge sacrifice to give up the non-HD stuff, but every once in awhile I'll see a random movie on the xfinity guide, turn it on and immediately move on when I see the picture.

Anyway, count me as one very happy plasma fan-boy who took the plunge and went OLED.
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post #58 of 69 Old 01-30-2019, 07:29 AM
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I am in agreement. I just replaced my 60" Pioneer Kuro (151FD) with a 65" LG C8. I find it the equal of or superior to the Pioneer in every way. It seems about equal in upscaling performance and motion (at least to my eyes) and is clearly superior in black level, brightness and color palette and quality. This isn't just with 4K material (from either my Oppo 203 or Netflix/Amazon Prime streaming). Even DVDs look about the same. I also lost the DSE that was sometimes visible on the Pioneer. I consider the OLED an overall and definite step up. It also cost about half of what the Pioneer cost 10 years earlier. If you factor in 10 years of inflation, the price differential is even greater.

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post #59 of 69 Old 01-31-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenstumps View Post
It all comes down to BFI and how much they can improve it, it mimics Plasma, but right now it just adds too much flicker on OLEDs... it works well on the high end LCDs though.
We'd need impulse driven oled or at least rolling scan have plasma/crt motion. BFI gets it closer, but not all the way there.
The main issue is BFI flicker is only tolerable at 120hz and up. While rolling scan flicker is tolerable at 60hz. You can match 60fps sources to 60hz rolling scan and get an amazing result with no eye tracking motion blur. I know of no 120fps sources (except PC games) to match 120hz BFI.

If you're sensitive to sample and hold based eye-tracking motion blur in video games, you need to exactly match the framerate to the low-persistent solution (BFI or rolling scan). PC gamers are using BFI strobing at 120hz+ and running their games at 120fps+ to match. Console games that run at 60fps (and sports content at 60fps) look great on a 60hz low persisitent plasma but will have the 2 scan repeat judder on a 120hz BFI display.

Now, motion interpolation can push a low fps source to 120fps to match a 120hz bfi. but motion interpolation isn't ideal in video games (and many don't like it in video content either).
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post #60 of 69 Old 02-08-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
I don't feel ripped off... for the most part I've stuck to the $20 ballpark for 4K discs and I usually read the reviews beforehand. I've gotten a ton of them for less than $15 and I'd say only a dozen or so I paid $25-$30 for.


As for 1080p blue rays... less than $10 is my goal and I usually get there unless it's a new release. I cleaned up on BF as I said... saving over 60% on a cart full of titles. Some purchases are easy to make... American Pie 4 disc set for $12... 7 disc Nightmare on Elm St set for $22... 7 disc Fast and Furious set for $32.... I've built a solid collection that will be pushing 400 titles soon by not passing up deals like that.

I've gone on quite the tangent myself with a similar method, my problem is I have crazy amounts of DVD's. And I am replacing a lot of those with the blu ray version, they are cheap but still almost feel like a waste.


Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post
I would suggest that anyone with a good Plasma, F8500, last of the Panasonic's, Pioneer etc hold on to them for another year or so. Having had 3-4 Panasonics myself, and just moved my F8500 to my bedroom and put in a C8, I'm not blown away with the upgrade. Feed it 4k, HDR, and it's impressive, no doubt. Some 4k stuff is stunning, even youtube, but it's really limited material but it is getting better which is what I was banking on. Scaling isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, 1080p looks quite good, 720 not so much, but it's not horrible but Plasma was clearly better at dvd/720/1080i and most certainly - motion. I'm also not blown away with brightness. I thought the C8 would be a noticeable upgrade over the F8500 for brightness, but once I calibrated everything ( not a pro calibrator, just basic settings ) unless you put the OLED in 100 OLED mode/85 contrast etc, which to me is only asking for burn in, it's not brighter. It can be, but I could turn the F8500 to be blinding too if I want everything over exposed. Granted, the F8500 was the brightest plasma in its day, and it till this day has a fantastic picture with everything I toss at it. I just spent an hour watching it in bed and after looking at the C8 every day for over a month I was like, darn, this still looks really good. Certainly no macroblocking or gal gadot syndrome lol. Toss in the panel lottery on any LCD/ OLED right now.....my advice, wait. It is pathetic that any TV of this price range isn't anything but perfect.


Do not buy anything if you have a good plasma. It's not worth it. 4k is a bit of a joke right now. Honestly, 4k Netflix doesn't look that much better than 1080p Netflix on my plasma and I'm 9 feet away from my 65". Yes it looks "better" but 3 or 4 grand better, nah. Wait. I had to redo my TV wall for the woman, install some barn wood stuff for her which meant run new wires, so I said if I got to do these reno's anyways I might as well toss a new TV there because if the plasma died, running cables later would have been a PITA. I game, have PC on it, lots of movies etc. It's used for everything, so far, not blown away, more of a sideways upgrade to me. I know I'm flip flopping on saying yes its awesome, no it isn't, but that's exactly how I feel about the new C8 compared to my F8500. I'm no Samsung fan, but they did something right with that Plasma and only that plasma because I hated the other Samsung Plasma's, and the last Panasonics were fantastic - I just couldn't find any left when they announced "THE END" so I grabbed the then new F8500 so I wouldn't be stuck with a LCD if my Panasonic died. I did not get any time to see a Q9fn, Q8fn yes, hated it, but would have liked to have seen a Q9fn in person. But, their forums are full of issues as well, again, panel lottery, just not worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
I agree, those post always give me pause too. I wish networks would start rolling out 4k network tv for at least sports and their popular shows, as that would get me more excited about. It seems to be taking much longer than HD did.

I do agree that OLED's definitely have better color, brighter and better blacks, but still on the fence upgrading from my Kuro. My Kuro is still very good and normal tv viewing, especially sports. If I upgraded today, it would only be for the Sony A9F, but will wait and see what CES brings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferky1 View Post
Just wanted to update this thread, having been a Sony 65 A8F owner for almost a month now. In short, I am very happy with my decision to replace the Pioneer Kuro plasma with the Sony OLED.

The OLED is superior in virtually every way. Of course 4k/HDR content is significantly better on the OLED, but most of my viewing is 1080i/720p cable/OTA, and more sports than movies. Happy to report that the improvement is noticeable. There isn't as drastic an improvement as with 4k/HDR content, but it is absolutely better than the old plasma, and I have no motion issues. Not one time have I watched 4k/HDR/1080/720/OTA content and thought 'jeez, the plasma did this better.' As for brightness, maybe it's because I'm coming from plasma, but I cannot figure out how people can say that the Sony isn't bright enough. I initially tried the rtings.com recommended settings and I thought my eyeballs were burning. TOO BRIGHT. Maybe people coming from LCD have a different baseline, but brightness and color are terrific.

The one negative I have won't affect most people. I sometimes will watch a random movie or show on a non-HD cable channel. With the Kuro, I knew it wasn't HD and didn't look great, but the Kuro upscaler did a great job and allowed me to forget the mediocre quality and enjoy the show. The OLED was just not made to handle the low quality stuff and it is unwatchable. Not a huge sacrifice to give up the non-HD stuff, but every once in awhile I'll see a random movie on the xfinity guide, turn it on and immediately move on when I see the picture.

Anyway, count me as one very happy plasma fan-boy who took the plunge and went OLED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post
I am in agreement. I just replaced my 60" Pioneer Kuro (151FD) with a 65" LG C8. I find it the equal of or superior to the Pioneer in every way. It seems about equal in upscaling performance and motion (at least to my eyes) and is clearly superior in black level, brightness and color palette and quality. This isn't just with 4K material (from either my Oppo 203 or Netflix/Amazon Prime streaming). Even DVDs look about the same. I also lost the DSE that was sometimes visible on the Pioneer. I consider the OLED an overall and definite step up. It also cost about half of what the Pioneer cost 10 years earlier. If you factor in 10 years of inflation, the price differential is even greater.

This is the boat I am in, my Sammy Plasma has been great on everything except my entertainment center for quite a few years. I ended up buying it off of someone who did not have the base so had to mount it hanging down off of the bridge that runs across the two entertainment center stacks. Everyone who has seen it thinks it looks super cool, except now the weight of the plasma is slightly bending the bridge. So I am waiting to come home one day to the plasma on the ground. Which has made me think of upgrading especially since I upgraded from my Denon AVR-987 up to a 4300.



But when doing the TV I want to do the same as I did with the receiver, get a great deal on something that isn't much change between a new model but pay 1/3 of the price. I have just started thinking about going with a new TV, I know when I was selling TV's at Circuit City the OLED was just starting to get rolling into the super high end so I am glad to see it coming closer to getting into its own. Now I am thinking of waiting a bit until at least the new models come in to get a clearance model or possibly waiting the year or 2 like also recommended. I think I literally jumped back and forth between the ideas 4 times throughout this thread.
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