LG To Unveil 8K, ALPHA 9 Gen 2 Processor & HDMI 2.1 TVs at CES 2019 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Werner Roth View Post
Any HDMI 2.1 cable recommendations? Thought I would get ready with the cables but Google turned up nothing.
this seems to work well...
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post #92 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 01:46 PM
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Too bad it's the same panel.
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post #93 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gan7114 View Post
Both Belkin and Apple have sold this cable for over a year with "48Gbps" stated on their sites and on the packaging. Unless they're willing to risk a lawsuit for false advertisement, I'm willing to bet the cable performs as advertised, "Premium Certified" or not.

It at least does 22Gbps, I can tell you that.

In any event, it won't be too much longer before certified cables begin flooding the market.

There has been lots of discussion on the Belkin 48Gbps cable. Belkin announced that cable before HDMI 2.1 was finally ratified and the chip designs were sent to the chip mfrs. There is absolutely no way of knowing how Belkin and Apple validated that the cable can transmit at 48Gbps reliably. The fact that the cable length is under 10' is good because HDMI.org has not updated the 3' - 9' maximum cable length for fully compliant HDMI 2.1.


Premium High Speed HDMI is the official designation for HDMI cables that have been tested by an ATC and certified to meet all HDMI 2.0b hardware specifications. It's not unreasonable to think that the cable may even be able to perform at slightly higher bandwidths but it is at least certified for 18Gbps, which is part of the HDMI 2.0b hardware spec. Any cable mfr can have their cables tested and certified by an ATC if they are willing to pay for it. The cables will come with a QR label for authenticity to show that they were tested and certified by the standardized testing protocols as designed by HDMI.org. If a cable mfr states that their cables meet all HDMI 2.0b or HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications they need to be able to offer proof of testing and how, or at least they should.



Ultra High Speed HDMI will be the new designation for HDMI cables that are tested and certified to meet the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications, which includes the 48Gbps bandwidth. However, there aren't any standardized testing protocols yet for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 (they are still being worked out) so what Belkin and Apple are doing is more marketing to grab market share from the unsuspecting consumers than anything else. IMO, it is deceptive and misleading marketing. The Belkin and Apple cable is not the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" that HDMI.org is referring to.


There's no doubt that the cable is well made and will probably work just fine for HDMI 2.0b but whether it will work for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 at full bandwidth is highly suspect. Besides, there aren't any consumer devices yet that have the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them so how can Belkin/Apple claim that they will work as advertised in consumer devices?
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post #94 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DistractedforLife View Post
this seems to work well...

There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable. Once there are validated and standardized testing protocols the cables will be marketed as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables to distinguish them from Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0b). Belkin, and even Apple, have yet to publish how those cables were certified to realiably transmit 48Gbps let alone fully compliant HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. There aren't any devices yet with fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets to even test the cables in consumer settings. They are no doubt well made cables and should have no problems with HDMI 2.0b, but the HDMI 2.1 claims are bordelrine deceptive, imo.

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post #95 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mav99l View Post
LG's press release did say 120 fps, but did not specify and what resolution. Also, aside from the features of HDMI 2.1, a 4K set doesn't need the extra bandwidth of 2.1. My prediction is that LG will call it HDMI 2.1 and include it on all their 2019 4K TVs and it will compromise all the major features of HDMI 2.1, but not be full bandwidth. Then their 8K set will be released later in the year and be the only LG set with full bandwidth 2.1 and they will call it something like "HDMI 2.1 Full Bandwidth."
Except that one of the few things clear from LG's press release is that the Alpha 9 Gen 2 processor will be used i all of their 2019 WOLEDs including the 8K 'Z9' model: http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2019/01/th...nce-to-lg-tvs/

"The α9 Gen 2 applied in LG's Z9 W9, E9 and C9 series OLED TVs..."

So one of the few things I'm certain of is that your prediction is not going to pan out.
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post #96 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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why are manufacturers pushing 8K so much for?...4K is only now starting to take off and is still a long ways away from becoming mainstream...why the 8K rush for?
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post #97 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Seilerbird View Post
Looks like we get every technology except 3D.
I keep hoping for that every year.

I know 3D is basically dead, but with every company having dropped it, I'm surprised that at least one of them doesn't put it in at least one model. It would literally have no competition, and all 3D supporters would buy that model.
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post #98 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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Too bad it's the same panel.
Yeah, looks as though Top Emission will not be launching until 2020...
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post #99 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
I keep hoping for that every year.

I know 3D is basically dead, but with every company having dropped it, I'm surprised that at least one of them doesn't put it in at least one model. It would literally have no competition, and all 3D supporters would buy that model.
2021 after Avatar 2 is released...
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post #100 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Seilerbird View Post
Looks like we get every technology except 3D.
It’s the only thing I still miss after upgrading my Panasonic plasma to the C8. ::sigh::
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post #101 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 02:54 PM
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Just hope the 88" is not as costly as the 14,999 Samsung 85". I just can't afford that. Right now I am watching my 65" Panasonic Plasma ZT and want to upgrade the whole system to Atmos. A bit concerned about all I have read about the OLEDs and their burn in issue. Even though I am not a gamer, I do watch the news and regular TV shows in addition to my Blu Rays and discs. I do not stream anything

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post #102 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 03:07 PM
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Looks like we get every technology except 3D.
Indeed. The most important feature still absent.

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post #103 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 03:21 PM
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My JVC NX7 pre-order is on the ropes with this announcement. I place high value on low latency and VRR. I've wanted that on TVs forever. My 2015 1440p 144hz GSync monitor is the best display purchase I have ever made. Here is what I need to see at CES to kill off my JVC NX7 pre-order:
  • Other companies also announcing 2.1 support
  • Hints at GPU support for 2.1 soon
  • Confirmation that this is not LG pulling BS just to get a fake HDMI 2.1 label on their 2.0 connectors

The NX7 will still be perfect for movies, but I'm a gamer and will gladly wait another year if I think VRR and lower latency input is around the corner.
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post #104 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I doubt LG would risk the backlash of negative publicity in case they resorted to such a stunt. We will see.
I hope this is true




please let LG, Sony, Samsung all have true 48 gbps HDMI ports this year
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post #105 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
It hasn't been all that long that we finally started getting certified 18 Gbps HDMI cables. It was at least a year or more after 4K blu-rays started coming to market before full 18 Gpbs bandwidth HDMI cables started to become available. I remember how difficult it was before to find them for a long time. I could be wrong, but I think it might be a while until we start seeing certified 48 Gpbs HDMI cables, especially for longer cable runs of 30 feet or more that a lot of us have.


This might be outdated, but here is some discussion from Blue Jeans Cable about this topic:


https://www.bluejeanscable.com/artic...-cable-48g.htm
??? I bought a dozen certified premium high speed HDMi cables(The ones with the HDMI.org certification) from Monoprice on June 10th, 2016, four months after the UHD BD launch. The UHD BD launch was around February 10th 2016. I got my first UHD BD player and first UHD BD titles that week.

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post #106 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 05:24 PM
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something to note ..
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1546474535

Quote:
LG has announced a range of new ’NanoCell’ LCD models. The 75-inch SM99 model is LG’s first 8K LCD model. Several 4K models also include HDMI 2.1 and full array local dimming.
LG has announced an expansive line-up of new LCD models but only a few of them were detailed in the initial press release. LG will be introducing its 2019 high-end LCD TVs under a ’NanoCell’ moniker. The TVs are based on IPS LCD panels with a nano cell enhancement layer.
The 75-inch SM99 will be LG’s first 8K LCD model. It comes with ’FALD Pro’, which is short for full array local dimming - in other words LED dimming zones. This model is also equipped with LG’s most advanced second generation Alpha 9 video processor. In addition, it offers HDMI 2.1 with higher video bandwidth.
Stepping down into 4K, LG has several different models. The SM90 offers many of the same features as the flagship SM99, including HDMI 2.1 (with up to 4K120 inputs) and full array local dimming. The video processor is a second generation Alpha 7. It will be available in 49, 55, 65, 75, and 86-inch sizes.LG’s SM8x (SM86, SM85, SM82) are also part of the ’NanoCell’ line-up. However, these TVs will not be equipped with the FALD system. SM85 and up will feature support for Dolby Atmos and WiSA wireless audio.
(1) LG will also have HDMI 2.1 4K LCD TVs in 2019

(2) some of these new 2019 4K LCDs will be lower tier with Alpha 7 gen 2, but even so they will still be HDMI 2.1 [email protected]


this means that HDMI 2.1 isnt tied to Alpha 9 gen 2 and that the Alpha 7 gen 2-equipped B9 should also be HDMI 2.1 ...





also I think the LG press release notes not only [email protected] HDMI 2.1, but also [email protected] HDMI 2.1 (for the 8K 2019 TVs), which I hope means full real 48 gbps chipset, because Im not sure HDMI 2.0 can do [email protected] in any way at all (if it could - I assume the Q900R would have utilized that capability, but the HDMI 2.0 initial version of Q900R is [email protected] only .. and IIRC it was specifically stated by Samsung that only after upgrading the OCB of the Q900R to HDMI 2.1 - will it become [email protected] capable)

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post #107 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
I could be wrong, but I think it might be a while until we start seeing certified 48 Gpbs HDMI cables, especially for longer cable runs of 30 feet or more that a lot of us have.

ATC certification for the Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 hardware specs) is still going to be a ways off. One of the major stumbling blocks is overcoming the initial maximum cable length of 3' - 9' as originally reported for the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable". I certainly hope that those who have long runs have installed their cables in conduits to make it easier to upgrade their cabling. I think hybrid fiber cables will be what's needed for those long runs for 4k HDR.


There is going to be lots of smoke and mirrors surrounding what the device mfrs will be calling "HDMI 2.1" and what the cable mfrs will market. Especially the cable mfrs because it has always seemed that they can make just about any claim they want and get away with it.

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post #108 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 07:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
None of the gpus in the market has hdmi 2.1 port atm. We are not even sure if they will in the future, especially if you use nvidia gpus. Even if an nvidia gpu has hdmi 2.1 port, it will not support vrr as that competes with their g-sync tech
XB1 supports HDMI 2.1 right now.. CES AMD will announce HDMI 2.1 IMO.. Later this summer perhaps Nvidia too.
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post #109 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 07:56 PM
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Do all the people saying they are going to upgrade know LG is using the same panels as last year? Unless you really want to play PC games at 4K 120fps (and have a capable computer), there's not much here for most of us.
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post #110 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Hints at GPU support for 2.1 soon
As mentioned elsewhere, we may very well not just be getting hints but straight up reveals of new GPU(s) that support HDMI 2.1 at AMD's CES keynote on the 8 9th.
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post #111 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 08:19 PM
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As mentioned elsewhere, we may very well not just be getting hints but straight up reveals of new GPU(s) that support HDMI 2.1 at AMD's CES keynote on the 8th.
I sure as hell hope so. It's about time to lift this damn 18 Gbps cap. DisplayPort has been well above that limit for a long long time now.
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post #112 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 08:25 PM
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I’m wondering if eARC will fix the lip sync issues primarily found when using a cable box directly into the TV and ARC out to a receiver or soundbar. In theory it should, but in practice I guess we will find out.
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post #113 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post
Do all the people saying they are going to upgrade know LG is using the same panels as last year? Unless you really want to play PC games at 4K 120fps (and have a capable computer), there's not much here for most of us.
VRR, and 4K 120FPS is nice to have for the future, although mostly useless at the moment. I highly doubt even next gen consoles will be able to output native 4K @ 120FPS...you will need an absolute beast of a PC to use that. VRR on the other hand may be widely implemented in 2-3 years with next gen consoles. Also knowing its the same panel.... I not be upgrading.
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post #114 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich C View Post
I’m wondering if eARC will fix the lip sync issues primarily found when using a cable box directly into the TV and ARC out to a receiver or soundbar. In theory it should, but in practice I guess we will find out.
I have the same lip sync issue, although minor. Video behind audio if I stream from TV and output to receiver via ARC. May just be a problem with the LG's...Is this also common on other OLEDs and 4K TVs?
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post #115 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
OK. Well none I would consider putting in a gaming machine then. Maybe some day. No rush.
It's a good thing you are in no rush, because if you want VRR in an Nvidia GPU, that may never happen due to their propietary G-Sync. But yes, PC gaming desperately needs AMD to get back into contention in mid-high/high end GPU market like they did on the CPU market, Nvidia's price gouging is out of control.
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post #116 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve544 View Post
Just hope the 88" is not as costly as the 14,999 Samsung 85". I just can't afford that. Right now I am watching my 65" Panasonic Plasma ZT and want to upgrade the whole system to Atmos. A bit concerned about all I have read about the OLEDs and their burn in issue. Even though I am not a gamer, I do watch the news and regular TV shows in addition to my Blu Rays and discs. I do not stream anything
both my Panasonic vt30 and st50 had minor burn in

Neither of my oleds have burn in,

I’ve been watching the same content on both sets

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post #117 of 977 Old 01-03-2019, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve544 View Post
Just hope the 88" is not as costly as the 14,999 Samsung 85". I just can't afford that. Right now I am watching my 65" Panasonic Plasma ZT and want to upgrade the whole system to Atmos. A bit concerned about all I have read about the OLEDs and their burn in issue. Even though I am not a gamer, I do watch the news and regular TV shows in addition to my Blu Rays and discs. I do not stream anything
OLEDs are probably less prone to burn-in than plasmas, so if you're happy with your plasma then I wouldn't worry about it.
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post #118 of 977 Old 01-04-2019, 12:32 AM
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PC gaming desperately needs AMD to get back into contention in mid-high/high end GPU market like they did on the CPU market
January 9th, mark your calendars!

(I previously said the 8th above, but it turns out I was off by one day )


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I highly doubt even next gen consoles will be able to output native 4K @ 120FPS...you will need an absolute beast of a PC to use that. VRR on the other hand may be widely implemented in 2-3 years with next gen consoles.
The 120fps and VRR go hand in hand. The biggest benefit will be the ability to have frame rates between 60fps and 120fps, not necessarily a constant 120fps.

But even then, there are already games that hit 4k 60fps on the XB1X, and that's with CPU cores that have like half the IPC of even a Zen1 CPU at the same clockrate. Not only that, but Zen1 easily clocks into the 3GHz range with minimal power draw (see: 17" desktop-replacement laptops with 8c/16t desktop AM4 Ryzen 1700) and it's very likely that consoles would be using Zen2 at the very least rather than Zen1 seeing as Navi is supposedly the GPU architecture developed in-tandem with Sony for the PS5, and both Zen2 and Navi are manufactured on TSMC's 7nm node.
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post #119 of 977 Old 01-04-2019, 05:46 AM
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Sitting at a distance of 10’ will I actually be able to see the difference between a 4 & 8k on a 65” screen?

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post #120 of 977 Old 01-04-2019, 06:21 AM
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I’m wondering if eARC will fix the lip sync issues primarily found when using a cable box directly into the TV and ARC out to a receiver or soundbar. In theory it should, but in practice I guess we will find out.
Other displays have no issue with it so why does lg? I have no lip sync problems with the arc using a Sony or TCL uhd TV. They automatically adjust the audio delay so it is in sync with the video. You don't need HDMi 2.1 for the ARC to work properly.

Now eARC would be nice to be able to use the arc with the lossless audio codecs. But then you also need a receiver or speaker bar to support it. I know this mid range Sony speaker bar I tried out last month has eARC.
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