2019 LG Z9 Signature 8K OLED Anticipation Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 165 Old 01-15-2019, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
No, that's only for the 4K 2019 WOLEDs: "LG says its 2019 TVs will also support HFR, or High Frame Rate for smooth, clear motion at 120fps."

The Z is limited to 60Hz (and so will probably support any 'HFR' features it can at up to 60Hz).
So is it a 60hz panel? Disappointing if so.

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post #32 of 165 Old 01-15-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
So is it a 60hz panel? Disappointing if so.
Yes, the Z is a 60Hz native panel (120Hz Effective Refresh Rate).

If you think that's disappointing, the Samsung 8K QLEDs are only 30Hz...
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post #33 of 165 Old 01-16-2019, 10:59 PM
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It'll be brought to market and at a price that will surprise you all (in a good way ),

<at least, that is my prediction>
Look at the prices of the OLED65W8PUA and OLED77W8PUA.......This unit is going to be very pricey.
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post #34 of 165 Old 01-17-2019, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yes, the Z is a 60Hz native panel (120Hz Effective Refresh Rate).
What does that mean exactly? What will happen if you feed it a 120hz signal at 4K or 1080p?


And for comparison what are the "Native" and "Effective" refresh rates of the current 4K models?

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If you think that's disappointing, the Samsung 8K QLEDs are only 30Hz...
Does that mean the panel is only physically capable of refreshing its screen 30 times a second?? I have never seen that before. That cannot even properly be called a "television" since all forms of US broadcast use a 60hz refresh rate.

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post #35 of 165 Old 01-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
What does that mean exactly? What will happen if you feed it a 120hz signal at 4K or 1080p?
I suspect that if the 88Z8 is fed a 1080p or 2160p stream at 120fps, it will be upscaled to 8K and every other frame will be lost to result in 4320p60.

A Native refresh rate is the rate a panel can refresh all of the ouxel date to a new frame.

An Effective Refresh Rate is the rate at which a panel can 'take action' to change the image displayed to your eyeballs, including blanking. An LED/LCD with a scanning backlight that refreshes frames ar 120Hz and strobes segments of the backlight at 120Hz has an Effective Refresh Rate of 240Hz (eyeballs see 4.2ms of luminance followed by 4.2ms of black from every pixel).

Quote:
And for comparison what are the "Native" and "Effective" refresh rates of the current 4K models?
2016s and 2017s 4Ks were 60Hz Native and Effective.

2018s 4Ks were 120Hz Native ad Effective

2019 4Ks are 120Hz Native and 240Hz Effective (because the columns have been split so that they can be driven from above and below in parallel).

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Does that mean the panel is only physically capable of refreshing its screen 30 times a second?? I have never seen that before. That cannot even properly be called a "television" since all forms of US broadcast use a 60hz refresh rate.
I believe this question was related to Samsung's 2018 8K QLED, and yes, it is limited to refreshing an 8K image every 1/30th of a second. To be fair, this limitation may merely be due to HDMI 2.0 rather than panel speed - if Samsung delivers an updated 'One Connect Box' supporting HDMI2.1 and an 8K refresh rate of 60Hz, then the panel itself already supports that refresh speed and is merely starved by HDMI2.1 feeding it an 8K video stream...
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post #36 of 165 Old 01-17-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

I believe this question was related to Samsung's 2018 8K QLED, and yes, it is limited to refreshing an 8K image every 1/30th of a second. To be fair, this limitation may merely be due to HDMI 2.0 rather than panel speed - if Samsung delivers an updated 'One Connect Box' supporting HDMI2.1 and an 8K refresh rate of 60Hz, then the panel itself already supports that refresh speed and is merely starved by HDMI2.1 feeding it an 8K video stream...
But HDMI limitations are independent of the panel refresh rate which is (usually) fixed. If the panel is 60hz then it displays everything at 60hz. If it can only accept 30hz input over HDMI then that would still be converted to 60hz for display.


The first generation 4K screens were also limited to 30hz 4K input but they were still native 60hz panels. You would 60hz with the built in tuner or with a 1080p input.

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post #37 of 165 Old 02-13-2019, 07:29 AM
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I'll wait for a year or two for the price drop, and by that time, I suspect it may be a tough decision between something like this and microLED.
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post #38 of 165 Old 02-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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^I doubt that.
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post #39 of 165 Old 02-13-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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MicroLED is definitely not happening in a year or 2. Some of the more pessimistic predictions are that it may never be affordable enough for the home market. But we'll see.



I'm still planning on getting a Z9 as this is exactly the display I wanted last year when I bought my C8. I'm fine with the 1st-gen tax and then I'll wait a few years for OLED to mature before upgrading again. Or whatever new technology might be out by then.

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post #40 of 165 Old 02-14-2019, 07:40 PM
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This is a welcome sight that this TV has a stand.......unlike the W-series where it is wall-mount only
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post #41 of 165 Old 02-15-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post


I believe this question was related to Samsung's 2018 8K QLED, and yes, it is limited to refreshing an 8K image every 1/30th of a second. To be fair, this limitation may merely be due to HDMI 2.0 rather than panel speed - if Samsung delivers an updated 'One Connect Box' supporting HDMI2.1 and an 8K refresh rate of 60Hz, then the panel itself already supports that refresh speed and is merely starved by HDMI2.1 feeding it an 8K video stream...

I was a little confused by this but as im reading it from your wording its only doing 30hz Native with real 8K fed content which at the moment there isn't any correct? But with every other resolution its doing 120hz and as you mentioned it has been confirmed that the upgraded 2.1 connect box does 8K/60hz so it is a Native 60hz for 8K it just currently can't do this with HDMI 2.0 but will with the 2.1 box. I think I read that right lol. I was under the impression its a native 120hz "panel" but its the HDMI that limits it to currently 30hz and soon 60hz when fed native 8K content.

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post #42 of 165 Old 02-26-2019, 06:11 PM
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Saw the 77c9 listed for 6999 any word on the 88?
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post #43 of 165 Old 02-26-2019, 08:41 PM
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Saw the 77c9 listed for 6999 any word on the 88?
Where?
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post #44 of 165 Old 02-26-2019, 09:16 PM
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Where?
BH Photo. They listed it last week as a "preorder" and the price has bounced around a bit since. Not sure how credible it is.

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post #45 of 165 Old 02-26-2019, 11:50 PM
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BH Photo. They listed it last week as a "preorder" and the price has bounced around a bit since. Not sure how credible it is.
Interesting, I'm seeing $6,996 at this moment.

If it's true that the 77" C9 will ship at $7,000, that would represent an approximately 20% decline in price versus the shipping price of the 77" C8 ($9,000).
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post #46 of 165 Old 02-27-2019, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wrxlvr View Post
I'll wait for a year or two for the price drop, and by that time, I suspect it may be a tough decision between something like this and microLED.
Microled supposed to be brighter and low risk of burn-in....
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post #47 of 165 Old 02-27-2019, 03:13 AM
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Interesting, I'm seeing $6,996 at this moment.

If it's true that the 77" C9 will ship at $7,000, that would represent an approximately 20% decline in price versus the shipping price of the 77" C8 ($9,000).
Samsung has announced a $6999 MSRP for their 75" Q900 8K QLED/LCD, so I think we can safely assume that $6999 is a cieling for the MSRP of the 77Q9: https://www.samsung.com/us/televisio...n75q900rbfxza/

As already pointed out, $7K represents a 22% drop from the MSRP of the 77C8, compared to discounted November retail pricing of $7K and unauthorized online prices of $5K.

If that same 22% drop holds, it could translate to November pricing under $5500 and unauthorized online pricing under $4000...

As far as the 88Z9, I'm expecting a high price, since I doubt LG wants to sell any real quantity of these in year 1.

Samsung has a $10K MSRP on the 82" 8K QLED/LCD and a $15K MSRP on the 85" Model.

I expect MSRP on the 88Z9 to be at least $18K, likely $20K, and possibly as much as $25K...
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post #48 of 165 Old 02-27-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Where?
As others have said, it's listed at B&H. They have been ok at preorder stuff and that is what the c8 is going for now and there is a good amount of pressure from Q-LED and nothing (HDMI 2.1) changed from the c8. Even at $6999 it's tough to decide. Get the 75” Q-LED or the 77” OLED? I think I can be careful enough with burn in but have been told that coming from a Kuro the uniformity, motion and black crush (anything else?) can be disappointing. I’ve been waiting so long and told myself that I’d get one after HDMI 2.1 was included but was hoping for OLED panel improvements to go with it.

Next I'll be waiting for a real HDMI 2.1 AVR. The Denon AVC-X8500H may have an updated HDMI 2.1 board at some point but I want something that comes with it.

Anything more than $10k for the 88" is not doable.

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post #49 of 165 Old 03-05-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Samsung has announced a $6999 MSRP for their 75" Q900 8K QLED/LCD, so I think we can safely assume that $6999 is a cieling for the MSRP of the 77Q9: https://www.samsung.com/us/televisio...n75q900rbfxza/

As already pointed out, $7K represents a 22% drop from the MSRP of the 77C8, compared to discounted November retail pricing of $7K and unauthorized online prices of $5K.

If that same 22% drop holds, it could translate to November pricing under $5500 and unauthorized online pricing under $4000...

As far as the 88Z9, I'm expecting a high price, since I doubt LG wants to sell any real quantity of these in year 1.

Samsung has a $10K MSRP on the 82" 8K QLED/LCD and a $15K MSRP on the 85" Model.

I expect MSRP on the 88Z9 to be at least $18K, likely $20K, and possibly as much as $25K...
I agree. And what's strange, is that 18-20k would land as "surprisingly low" with me...

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post #50 of 165 Old 03-05-2019, 10:02 AM
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As others have said, it's listed at B&H. They have been ok at preorder stuff and that is what the c8 is going for now and there is a good amount of pressure from Q-LED and nothing (HDMI 2.1) changed from the c8. Even at $6999 it's tough to decide. Get the 75” Q-LED or the 77” OLED? I think I can be careful enough with burn in but have been told that coming from a Kuro the uniformity, motion and black crush (anything else?) can be disappointing. I’ve been waiting so long and told myself that I’d get one after HDMI 2.1 was included but was hoping for OLED panel improvements to go with it.

Next I'll be waiting for a real HDMI 2.1 AVR. The Denon AVC-X8500H may have an updated HDMI 2.1 board at some point but I want something that comes with it.

Anything more than $10k for the 88" is not doable.
You'll have to wait at least a year if not two. LG doesn't want the 88Z9 to be 'doable' this first year for any but those videophiles with tons of mad money to throw away.

The fact that Sony and Panasonic are not introducing 8K 88 WOLEDs tells it all - LG Display has priced these 88" 8K panels out of reach and doesn't plan to produce more than a token few this first year

LG Electronics is taking one for the team and looking at the 88Z9 as a marketing investment (for bragging rights).

If you want the best 8K TV on the planet this first year (I know Samsung would beg to differ ), it's going to cost you an unreasonable amount of money...
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post #51 of 165 Old 03-05-2019, 10:09 AM
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I agree. And what's strange, is that 18-20k would land as "surprisingly low" with me...
Yes, that's the reason I threw $25K out there.

An MSRP of $18K would signal that LG intends to compete with 85Q950 customers, which I doubt they plan to do (this first year).

When Samsung finally comes out with a price for the 98Q950, I think that sets the upper limit against which LG is likely to price the 88Z9...

I can believe that LG wants to sell as many 88Z9s this first year as Samsung sells 98Q950s (both numbers will be very small).
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post #52 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 09:53 AM
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The fact that Sony and Panasonic are not introducing 8K 88 WOLEDs tells it all - LG Display has priced these 88" 8K panels out of reach and doesn't plan to produce more than a token few this first year

Panasonic will release bigger OLED screens later this year. Sony is also rumoured to realease an AG95 8K OLED at IFA.
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post #53 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 10:07 AM
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Panasonic will release bigger OLED screens later this year. Sony is also rumoured to realease an AG95 8K OLED at IFA.
Where are you hearing Panasonic will release bigger screens? All the info I've seen has Panasonic's 2019 OLED's limited to 65". Vincent Teoh from HDTVTest has a video where he is standing in front of a 77" however he tells us that the 77" being offered is still the old TC-77EZ1000C model from 2 years ago. Since Vincent was at Panasonic's showcase event in that video where all of the tv's were being showed I don't understand why they would keep a supposed true 2019 spec 77" a secret, especially seeing as they were showing off the 55" and 65" models across all 4 ranges they are offering.

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post #54 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 11:46 AM
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Panasonic will release bigger OLED screens later this year.
First, a 77" WOLED eould represent a 'bigger OLED' for Panasonic's current 2019 lineup (as already mentioned by Rod#s).

Second, 'later this year' means gearing up for 2020 (exactly my point - nobody but LGE with a few 88" 8K WOLEDs through essentially all of 2019).

Quote:
Sony is also rumoured to realease an AG95 8K OLED at IFA.
If you think Sony will be releasing an 88" WOLED at IFA next month, I want some of what you're smoking .

They may 'announce' 8K WOLEDs to be released late this year (again, reinforcing my point about 2019) and they also may announce the later release of a 65" 8K WOLED (thoughthe odds favor Philips as the OEM that will launch a 65" 8K WOLED late this year).

2020 will be a different story entirely, but through 2019, the number of 88" WOLED TVs sold will be vanishingly small (and pretty much all badged LG Electronics).

In 2020, I won't be the least bit surprised to see a number of OEMs including Sony, Panasonic, and Philips offering up a full 8K WOLED lineup including 88", 77" (or 75"), and 65"...
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post #55 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 12:09 PM
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First, a 77" WOLED eould represent a 'bigger OLED' for Panasonic's current 2019 lineup (as already mentioned by Rod#s).

Second, 'later this year' means gearing up for 2020 (exactly my point - nobody but LGE with a few 88" 8K WOLEDs through essentially all of 2019).



If you think Sony will be releasing an 88" WOLED at IFA next month, I want some of what you're smoking .

They may 'announce' 8K WOLEDs to be released late this year (again, reinforcing my point about 2019) and they also may announce the later release of a 65" 8K WOLED (thoughthe odds favor Philips as the OEM that will launch a 65" 8K WOLED late this year).

2020 will be a different story entirely, but through 2019, the number of 88" WOLED TVs sold will be vanishingly small (and pretty much all badged LG Electronics).

In 2020, I won't be the least bit surprised to see a number of OEMs including Sony, Panasonic, and Philips offering up a full 8K WOLED lineup including 88", 77" (or 75"), and 65"...
Pretty sure IFA is in early September like it is every year.

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post #56 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 12:23 PM
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Pretty sure IFA is in early September like it is every year.
Perhaps there is more than one. I looked it up and it said February 24-27 in Las Vegas: https://www.franchise.org/convention

At any rate, the central point remains that late-year launches in time for the Holiday Shopping Season and early 2020 launches are missing pretty much all of the 2019 launch season (which is now).
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post #57 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 12:58 PM
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Perhaps there is more than one. I looked it up and it said February 24-27 in Las Vegas: https://www.franchise.org/convention

At any rate, the central point remains that late-year launches in time for the Holiday Shopping Season and early 2020 launches are missing pretty much all of the 2019 launch season (which is now).
Well Sony has certainly scheduled their high end launches for the Berlin IFA for the last few years it seems. The Z9D, The Z9F, the A9F, etc. All just around the time of the IFA in Berlin in September. The A1E seems to have been an exception.

As for IFA, there is the International Franchise Association which was last month in vegas and not related to consumer electronics and then the relevant IFA which is Internationale Funkausstellung in Berlin in September. They have more attendance than CES but less exhibitors. So they argue over which is bigger and more relevant.
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post #58 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Well Sony has certainly scheduled their high end launches for the Berlin IFA for the last few years it seems. The Z9D, The Z9F, the A9F, etc. All just around the time of the IFA in Berlin in September. The A1E seems to have been an exception.

As for IFA, there is the International Franchise Association which was last month in vegas and not related to consumer electronics and then the relevant IFA which is Internationale Funkausstellung in Berlin in September. They have more attendance than CES but less exhibitors. So they argue over which is bigger and more relevant.
Thanks for the explanation - never realized their were two 'IFA' organizations (and obviously did not read caregully at all, nor did I realize we are in March, not January!).

Historically, what have Sony's (as well as Phillips'?) September IFA announcements translated to in terms of when the newly-announced models are available for purchase on the Best Buy showrooms here in the US?
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post #59 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Thanks for the explanation - never realized their were two 'IFA' organizations (and obviously did not read caregully at all, nor did I realize we are in March, not January!).

Historically, what have Sony's (as well as Phillips'?) September IFA announcements translated to in terms of when the newly-announced models are available for purchase on the Best Buy showrooms here in the US?
Well from what I recall they tend to announce the products just before IFA and show them at IFA and they are usually available by sometime in September or maybe early October. At least in Sony's case. I haven't followed Phillips much. I believe last year the A9F and Z9F were available by early or mid October.
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Len Sorensen

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post #60 of 165 Old 03-06-2019, 11:18 PM
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Where are you hearing Panasonic will release bigger screens? All the info I've seen has Panasonic's 2019 OLED's limited to 65". Vincent Teoh from HDTVTest has a video where he is standing in front of a 77" however he tells us that the 77" being offered is still the old TC-77EZ1000C model from 2 years ago. Since Vincent was at Panasonic's showcase event in that video where all of the tv's were being showed I don't understand why they would keep a supposed true 2019 spec 77" a secret, especially seeing as they were showing off the 55" and 65" models across all 4 ranges they are offering.

Source is somebody with good contacts to Panasonic dealers in Germany. He was always right.



http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...postID=286#286



http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...postID=295#295


He said, later in the year there will be bigger OLEDs by Panasonic and more than only one and the 77EZW1004 gets a successor.


Traditionally the flagship models by many manufactures were officially released around IFA in late August/September and not at the CES. The CES is only a appetizer because it´s too early in the year for a full lineup release.
Even for TPV/Philips there will be two more series at IFA. New 9er Series and 7er Series following the spring/early summer lineup around the just announced 8 Series. TPV/Philips in Europe is not the same in USA (stands under the Funai brand).
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Last edited by ALMA; 03-06-2019 at 11:26 PM.
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