Alienware OLED Monitor - 4K/120 Hz 55" DP 1.4 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz80 View Post
If I select any resolution from 1200p to 1600p it is upscaled by the graphics card to 2160p, so native 1440p support by the TV is not really needed. The upscaling isn't very taxing for the graphics card and performance should be a lot better than with native 2160p. Sure, it would be nice if current OLEDS supported [email protected], but with the 2019 models you can do it with 2160p and thus with 1440p and upscaling as well.
Exactly. You can output whatever resolution you need with the video driver.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 03:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz80 View Post
If I select any resolution from 1200p to 1600p it is upscaled by the graphics card to 2160p, so native 1440p support by the TV is not really needed. The upscaling isn't very taxing for the graphics card and performance should be a lot better than with native 2160p. Sure, it would be nice if current OLEDS supported [email protected], but with the 2019 models you can do it with 2160p and thus with 1440p and upscaling as well.
madvr ngu upscaling on high quality is highly taxing on graphics cards. you can't tell it to upscale up to a certain resolution using one algorithm, and then continue upscaling using another less intensive algorithm. as far as gaming, yes some games allow you to downscale the internal resolution while outputting at a higher resolution. but that doesn't solve every issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
So you don't have 4K content but you have 120fps content??


Why in the world do you need a video renderer to run 120fps? I'm sure you can see why no hardware maker would cater to such a specific use case.
look up smooth video project, it is an interpolation tool that interpolates at a much higher quality than TV chipsets. smooth video project is not a specific use case, it's actually fairly popular among PC video enthusiasts.

all I'm seeing here are people who don't understand what madvr or svp are or what they do or how they work together. the resulting image quality on a high-end PC is far ahead of anything any TV chipset can do.

also, I'll note that HDMI 2.1 is still future technology. not on any current TV or GPU.

A1E, a9f soon

Last edited by Interpolation; 01-23-2019 at 03:47 PM.
Interpolation is offline  
post #33 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 03:46 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked: 227
I use MadVR everyday and I'm well aware of what SVP is and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Its nothing more than a fancy soap opera mode no matter what you've convinced yourself of otherwise. But whatever floats your boat.

But again why would any TV maker support this when they do it themselves. The supposedly vast "pc video enthusiast" community you speak of are not even a blip on their radar.

The TVs already do 5:5 pulldown of 24fps which is the proper way to watch such content.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 03:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
I use MadVR everyday and I'm well aware of what SVP is and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Its nothing more than a fancy soap opera mode no matter what you've convinced yourself of otherwise. But whatever floats your boat.

But again why would any TV maker support this when they do it themselves. The supposedly vast "pc video enthusiast" community you speak of are not even a blip on their radar.

The TVs already do 5:5 pulldown of 24fps which is the proper way to watch such content.
soap opera is a derogatory and toxic term for high frame rate, used by intolerant people to upset others. using words like proper to enforce your intolerant opinions when you finally run out of arguments to make. you are using strawman arguments to say words like "vast" that I did not use in order to make my opinion seem ridiculous.

smooth video project has less artifacts and more vector calculations for smoother motion.

I accept your childish admission of defeat.
lsorensen likes this.

A1E, a9f soon
Interpolation is offline  
post #35 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 04:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
Actionable Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 642
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 271
The PQ on my OLED TV makes all monitors pretty much look like garbage. I'd really love an OLED monitor, but in a normal monitor size range for desktop. So I am disappointed in the very large size.

I don't understand why OLED is common in very small sizes (smartwatch), small sizes (smartphones) and then there's a huge jump to to large sizes (TVs). But they are almost completely absent in desktop monitor sizes. I think there was a Dell monitor once that was extraordinarily expensive and then almost immediately discontinued right after release.

Last edited by Actionable Mango; 01-23-2019 at 04:08 PM.
Actionable Mango is offline  
post #36 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpolation View Post
soap opera is a derogatory and toxic term for high frame rate, used by intolerant people to upset others. using words like proper to enforce your intolerant opinions when you finally run out of arguments to make. you are using strawman arguments to say words like "vast" that I did not use in order to make my opinion seem ridiculous.

smooth video project has less artifacts and more vector calculations for smoother motion.

I accept your childish admission of defeat.


HFR is great if it is shot that way. Adding extra frames to a 24fps movie is the same as colorizing a black & white movie. And if you like that too well then I really don't know what to tell you.

But yeah go ahead and write a letter to LG, Sony, etc and demand a display for your 120fps SVP PC playback. Let us know how it goes.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #37 of 57 Old 01-23-2019, 06:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
The PQ on my OLED TV makes all monitors pretty much look like garbage. I'd really love an OLED monitor, but in a normal monitor size range for desktop. So I am disappointed in the very large size.

I don't understand why OLED is common in very small sizes (smartwatch), small sizes (smartphones) and then there's a huge jump to to large sizes (TVs). But they are almost completely absent in desktop monitor sizes. I think there was a Dell monitor once that was extraordinarily expensive and then almost immediately discontinued right after release.
Because the RGB OLED manufacturing used for phones and other small-sized screens does not scale up to TV sizes (as Samsung painfully discovered) and LG, the sole supplier if WRGB WOLED, is focused on devoting all of their limited WOLED manufactiring towards the Premium TV Segment (55" and above).

So now that Samsung has introduced a 15.6" RGB OLED for laptops and LG is rumored to be introducing a 48" WOLED, the gap has closed a bit, but it's going to be a long time before LGD has the excess capacity to intridyce much smaller monitor-sized WOLEDs.

JOLED, with their printed RGB OLED technology, is probably a faster path to mid-sized OLED screens. JOLED is already gearing-up to introduce a 21.6" printed RGB OLED panel for gamers: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13751...tor-for-gamers

and they have also aparently shown prototypes of 27" and 55" printed RGB OLED panels at Fintech last month: https://www.j-oled.com/eng/press/20181204/
fafrd is offline  
post #38 of 57 Old 01-24-2019, 10:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
Actionable Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 642
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Because the RGB OLED manufacturing used for phones and other small-sized screens does not scale up to TV sizes (as Samsung painfully discovered) and LG, the sole supplier if WRGB WOLED, is focused on devoting all of their limited WOLED manufactiring towards the Premium TV Segment (55" and above).

So now that Samsung has introduced a 15.6" RGB OLED for laptops and LG is rumored to be introducing a 48" WOLED, the gap has closed a bit, but it's going to be a long time before LGD has the excess capacity to intridyce much smaller monitor-sized WOLEDs.

JOLED, with their printed RGB OLED technology, is probably a faster path to mid-sized OLED screens. JOLED is already gearing-up to introduce a 21.6" printed RGB OLED panel for gamers: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13751...tor-for-gamers

and they have also aparently shown prototypes of 27" and 55" printed RGB OLED panels at Fintech last month: https://www.j-oled.com/eng/press/20181204/
Wow, a real answer, thanks for the information! Usually I just some lame response like "because nobody wants them".
Actionable Mango is offline  
post #39 of 57 Old 01-27-2019, 01:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post


HFR is great if it is shot that way. Adding extra frames to a 24fps movie is the same as colorizing a black & white movie. And if you like that too well then I really don't know what to tell you.

But yeah go ahead and write a letter to LG, Sony, etc and demand a display for your 120fps SVP PC playback. Let us know how it goes.
adding extra pixels (upscaling) to a 1080 P movie is the same as colorizing a black & white movie.

converting SDR to HDR (this is done in postprocessing since no movie camera captures in raw HDR) is the same as colorizing a black & white movie.

tone mapping HDR to fit the televisions color space is the same as colorizing a black & white movie.

maybe you should check out smooth video project yourself at the highest settings (although I think your CPU might not be able to handle it at 120fps) and see how much smoother and artifact-free It is compared to television chipset interpolation. it really is remarkable.

nobody asked for your opinion on interpolation by the way. I find it strange that someone is attacking others over wanting televisions to have more features and better support.

Anyway, Sony and LG have been making progress year-over-year on custom resolution support. for example, the a9f officially lists 1080 P 120 Hz as a supported resolution. mainly for gaming purposes, but it helps both my interest in gaming and interpolation. so eventually I believe I'll get what I want, along with other gamers who would like to game at custom resolutions and frame rates.

meanwhile you'll still be the person acting toxic and hypocritical towards other people about how they enjoy their hobbies. people who have done nothing to you.

A1E, a9f soon
Interpolation is offline  
post #40 of 57 Old 01-27-2019, 04:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Adding extra frames to a 24fps movie is the same as colorizing a black & white movie. And if you like that too well then I really don't know what to tell you.
Devil's advocate counterpoint: Peter Jackson's They Shall Not Grow Old featured both frame interpolation and colorized film, and it's amazing.
zetruz is offline  
post #41 of 57 Old 01-28-2019, 05:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,531
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2377 Post(s)
Liked: 1382
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetruz View Post
Devil's advocate counterpoint: Peter Jackson's They Shall Not Grow Old featured both frame interpolation and colorized film, and it's amazing.
Good to know but that is a documentary.
8mile13 is offline  
post #42 of 57 Old 01-28-2019, 07:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
obveron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
Oh; ya mean the imaginary non-abuse burn-in that everyone constantly embellishes? You mean the burn-in, that after 6,000 hours of playing the SAME game with the HUD on tested to have ZERO burn-in in the latest RTINGS report? That burn-in?
I'm not sure why you are so sensitive to the concern of burn-in on OLED. Using OLED as a computer monitor is definitely worthy of atleast considering the topic. A video game is one thing. What about the user interface of Windows and applications? That would be abuse of OLED by your standard? Yet this Dell OLED display is sold a PC display.

BTW, the FIFA18 RTINGS test is showing uneven aging on the green and red screens around the HUD elements.
obveron is offline  
post #43 of 57 Old 01-28-2019, 01:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post
I'm not sure why you are so sensitive to the concern of burn-in on OLED. Using OLED as a computer monitor is definitely worthy of atleast considering the topic. A video game is one thing. What about the user interface of Windows and applications? That would be abuse of OLED by your standard? Yet this Dell OLED display is sold a PC display.

BTW, the FIFA18 RTINGS test is showing uneven aging on the green and red screens around the HUD elements.
Yes, after 3500 cumulative hours of displaying those FIFA HUD elemens, first signs of overcompensation for burn-in have appeared on the Rting.com test (burn-in is darker, when areas where thebTV determines burn-in may be occuring have been overcompensated, the result is lightened areas).

Anyone planning to display bright fully-saturated static logo/HUD elements for thousands of cumulative hours on their display would be better off sticking to LCD...
fafrd is offline  
post #44 of 57 Old 01-29-2019, 05:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
obveron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yes, after 3500 cumulative hours of displaying those FIFA HUD elemens, first signs of overcompensation for burn-in have appeared on the Rting.com test (burn-in is darker, when areas where thebTV determines burn-in may be occuring have been overcompensated, the result is lightened areas).

Anyone planning to display bright fully-saturated static logo/HUD elements for thousands of cumulative hours on their display would be better off sticking to LCD...
Sort of like Windows taskbar, application menus and such?
obveron is offline  
post #45 of 57 Old 01-29-2019, 08:11 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post
Sort of like Windows taskbar, application menus and such?
It's funny, but white is far less likely to burn-in than colors (especially red).

The white subpixel has no color filter, so it is able to generate about 300% the light ouput of a colored subpixel like red (or said another way, white is able to generate equivalent brightness at 1/3rd the drive current needed for a color like red).

So at a minumum, white static elements will need 3 times the number of cumulative hours to develope a similar degree of burn-in as red static elements.

There are very few reports of WOLED burn-in from monitor use, so PC usage seems to be much safer that watching CNN...

Last edited by fafrd; 01-29-2019 at 08:14 PM.
fafrd is offline  
post #46 of 57 Old 02-04-2019, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Callsign_Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post
Sort of like Windows taskbar, application menus and such?
lol you think windows task-bars and web browsers are full bright saturated colors? You must use some crazy themes on your desktop.

Anyone using a 55" OLED as a PC display isn't going to be blasting 300+ nits in their face for long periods of time on a huge screen. Well anyone with a brain that values their eyes. Desktop use is typically recommended around 120 nits or below. With that low of brightness and with pixel shift on, the propensity for desktop burn-in is virtually zero.

We now return to the regularly scheduled hyperbole programming.
Callsign_Vega is offline  
post #47 of 57 Old 02-06-2019, 02:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mark Rejhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: North America
Posts: 4,168
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpolation View Post
Anyway, Sony and LG have been making progress year-over-year on custom resolution support. for example, the a9f officially lists 1080 P 120 Hz as a supported resolution. mainly for gaming purposes, but it helps both my interest in gaming and interpolation. so eventually I believe I'll get what I want, along with other gamers who would like to game at custom resolutions and frame rates.
Founder of Blur Busters / Inventor of TestUFO here.

The refresh rate race will continue for quite a long time.

120fps HFR isn't even the final frontier! Now that resolution and dynamic range has nearly gone retina, this pushes other unturned stones such as refresh rates, especially if it becomes cheaper and cheaper to milk true-Hz (not fake Hz) in the coming decades.

Jump the uncanny valley and try UltraHFR. 240fps realtime at 240Hz. 1000fps realtime at 1000Hz.
It actually "feels" better to my brain than 48fps HFR and 120fps HFR.

- Cinematography of 2030s: Ultra HFR! I have witnessed realtime 1000fps on real 1000Hz
- Ultra HFR 240fps Real Time Video Now Possible Today, 1000fps Tomorrow
- Blur Busters Law And The Amazing Journey To Future 1000Hz Displays
- Photo Proof of Benefits Beyond 120fps HFR

Large leap up the diminishing curve is needed for big jump
60Hz = 1/60sec = 16.7ms
120Hz = 1/120sec = 8.3ms (8.3ms improvement)
1000Hz = 1/1000sec = 1ms (7.3ms improvement)

Basically, CRT motion clarity achieved strobelessly/flickerlessly. Blurless sample-and-hold. No motion blur & no stroboscopics. Film 1000fps @ 1000Hz, 1ms shutter, and get zero stroboscopics & zero blur, and less dizzying than 48fps HFR / 120fps HFR since it jumps the uncanny valley for me. Real life doesn't strobe, real life doesn't inject motion blur above human vision limitations. Ultra-Hz is the closest ever approaching analog-motion (framerateless displays). 1000fps[email protected] eliminates camera-blur & display-blur, and avoids wagonwheel/steppy/stroboscopic/phantomarray effects without needing to re-add motion blur to fix the stroboscopics. That is a "have cake and eat it too" effect. And no flicker of traditional yesteryear blur reduction to sear the eyes.

The guaranteed minimum display motion blur of a flickerless display at "X fps at X Hz" is always equal to 1/X sec motion blur -- same as a photographic camera shutter (1/60sec shutter versus 1/120sec shutter versus 1/1000sec shutter). The world's best flickerless 120Hz dislplay can never achieve better than the motion blur of a 1/120sec camera shutter, unless you add flicker (e.g. phosphor, black frames). Instead, having fully continuous display frametimes (with no black frames in between, no black frame insertion, no phosphor, no strobing, no scanning backlight) -- full refresh cycle display persistence exactly match shutter persistence is very magical at fast sports shutter speeds! (filling the entire millisecond with fully unique sports-shutter-speed images). 1000fps UltraHFR a less nauseating to my eyes than 48fps HFR and 120fps HFR.

While I'm also a fan of HFR, for traditional films I have always tended to prefer 24fps film and personally am mixed on interpolation (it has its uses, especially for sports).

I know some people who have eyestrain from motion blur & eyestrain from flicker -- so certainly respect beneficial interpolation uses though (Especially with rapidly improving AI interpolation that is parallax-smart). The only way to reduce low-framerate headaches and motion blur headaches (without using flicker-based motion blur reduction) is to use interpolation (or true HFR) for these individuals who gets searing eye pain from (stutter of low framerates) and also sensitive to flicker (of motion blur reduction). Different humans are sensitive to different thing, excess brightness, excess blur, low framerates, etc. Widely quoted is 12% of the population is colorblind but lesser known is that surprising separate >10% has many forms of undiagnosed motion sensitivities that are solved by various things. You know that grandma who always gets headaches when going to the cinema, or that brother who says that he loves the interpolation because "it's easier on his eyes"? All those old anecdotes. They're true. Little studied, there's actually a segment of population that gets less eyestrain from improved temporal resolution of HFR (even artificially interpolated HFR). Different humans see slightly differently from another. Whether you're seeing a primary a few nanometers differently, or whether you're 20/10, or whether you're slightly color blind, or whether you've got a partially undiagnosed motion-sickness, or a partial weird Akinetopsia, or people unusually sensitive to the blue light (getting headaches unless you go Low Blue Light) while others aren't very sensitive to it at all. There's a wide gamut of different vision sensitivities. So... I totally respect interpolation since it help cures for some people.

So, that means one person's garbage-motion is another person's nirvana of eye-relaxation (solving a headache or two).

Either way,

That said, genuine HFR and UltraHFR is even superior (especially as standardizations begins to occur) -- the latter preferred. Depending on the material played -- UltraHFR (480fps+) is more easy on my eyes and less nauseating for me than 48fps HFR than 120fps HFR, there is a "leap-beyond-the-uncanny-valley" effect for some people. Some will always be nauseated at any HFR but for some of us, the nausea disappears after a mid-HFR uncanny valley when all the motion blur disappears (CRT clarity blurless sample-and-hold that is mimicking analog framerateless motion). We weren't able to experimentally discover this until recently. Such research probably should become a University Thesis of the 2020s-2030s (students, feel free to reach out)

Being an ultra-Hz expert has often caused many people to contact me that the reduction of motion blur solved a headache problem for them. It's happening so often that I'm willing to participate, help, or fund research studies on little-researched blur busters topics such as motion blur nausea/sensitivities. One person cares less and go big whoop, yet the next person say it's best thing since sliced bread for them.

Also, being the world's first person to write a mainstream review of a true-480Hz display, I've been making some really interesting observations with video playback tests.
novcze, obveron and Interpolation like this.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
www.BlurBusters.com - Everything Better Than 60Hz(tm)

Last edited by Mark Rejhon; 02-06-2019 at 02:59 AM.
Mark Rejhon is offline  
post #48 of 57 Old 02-08-2019, 12:34 AM
Member
 
Alexious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 17
According to this article, the retail price could be in the neighborhood of $5,000.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorins.../#598d7fd151a0
Alexious is offline  
post #49 of 57 Old 02-08-2019, 04:38 AM
Member
 
convexmacrolabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega View Post
lol you think windows task-bars and web browsers are full bright saturated colors? You must use some crazy themes on your desktop.

Anyone using a 55" OLED as a PC display isn't going to be blasting 300+ nits in their face for long periods of time on a huge screen. Well anyone with a brain that values their eyes. Desktop use is typically recommended around 120 nits or below. With that low of brightness and with pixel shift on, the propensity for desktop burn-in is virtually zero.

We now return to the regularly scheduled hyperbole programming.

The Rtings burn-in test had a TV playing CNN with pixel shift on at 200 nits, and it started showing burn-in pretty quickly. 120 nits would probably slow it down a bit, but not eliminate it. In many ways the task bar example is worse than CNN (if you don't have auto-hide turned on). It's up 100% of the time, and on Windows 10 the background is black, which is going to create even more differential in the aging than the random surrounding pixels you would get on CNN.

As for bright, saturated colors - yes, the task bar and web browser have them. Task bar icons and favicons are often intentionally designed to be eye-catching like that. If I look on my current screen for static bright red / orange / yellow elements which have historically been the most problem for OLED, I have:
- 6 favicons in pinned tabs (Youtube, Amazon, AVSforum, etc.)
- 2 browser extension buttons (LastPass, etc.)
- 7 favicons in a bookmarks toolbar (AccuWeather, etc)
- 3 taskbar quicklaunch shortcuts (Windows Explorer, Firefox, etc)

These are smaller elements than the CNN banner to be sure, so pixel shift will help, but it doesn't really eliminate burn-in, it just makes it softer.

Of course, most of these things can be worked around if you are willing to change. I could turn on auto-hide taskbar. I could disable favicons. I could turn off the bookmarks toolbar. I could run my browser in full-screen more often. I could disable dark mode themes on my PC so I would get more white backgrounds that would help age the surrounding pixels more. I could use a browser extension to block problematic images on my favorite websites. I could use a tool like OnTopReplica to crop out problematic parts of videos when watching streams from Youtube or Twitch (I already do this when I watch them on my TV). The great thing about the customization of PCs is that you can work around most of these issues, but for the way I use my PC it would be a lot more involved than just turning on pixel shift and forgetting it.
UltimateDisplay likes this.
convexmacrolabs is offline  
post #50 of 57 Old 02-14-2019, 12:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ozymandis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexious View Post
According to this article, the retail price could be in the neighborhood of $5,000.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorins.../#598d7fd151a0

Hahaha the LG 55" is going to be half that cost or less... yeah, I'll pass on this Alienware at $5k.

LG OLED65B7 | Yamaha v661 | Aperion 5.1 w/ SVS sub | PS4 Pro | Xbox One X | HTPC (i7-7700K, 1080 Ti, Define Nano S)
Pioneer 5020FD | Panasonic 46S30 | Hitachi P50V701
Ozymandis is offline  
post #51 of 57 Old 02-14-2019, 12:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lsorensen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,556
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Hahaha the LG 55" is going to be half that cost or less... yeah, I'll pass on this Alienware at $5k.
That is one expensive displayport they have on there.

Len Sorensen

Sony XBR55A1E, Marantz SR6012, Benq W7000, Oppo BDP-93, PSB Image T5/C5/B4/Subseries 200
lsorensen is offline  
post #52 of 57 Old 02-14-2019, 05:34 PM
Senior Member
 
t1337Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
That is one expensive displayport they have on there.
Pretty standard for bearing the "Alienware" brand name. Always bring up the price a good 25-50%.

Been gaming on my OLED for 2 years and it shocks me that enthusiasts out there are still using "Gaming monitors". Sometimes I get the impression they wouldn't mind a black and white image as long as it upped the Hz...
t1337Dude is offline  
post #53 of 57 Old 02-15-2019, 01:47 AM
Member
 
Alexious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Hahaha the LG 55" is going to be half that cost or less... yeah, I'll pass on this Alienware at $5k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
That is one expensive displayport they have on there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t1337Dude View Post
Pretty standard for bearing the "Alienware" brand name. Always bring up the price a good 25-50%.

Been gaming on my OLED for 2 years and it shocks me that enthusiasts out there are still using "Gaming monitors". Sometimes I get the impression they wouldn't mind a black and white image as long as it upped the Hz...
To be clear, it's not official and only this article has reported this tidbit on pricing so far. I would expect it to be pricier than the LG OLED TVs but not by much, otherwise it won't make sense at all.
Alexious is offline  
post #54 of 57 Old 02-15-2019, 03:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
AnalogHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 682
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 387 Post(s)
Liked: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by convexmacrolabs View Post
In many ways the task bar example is worse than CNN..
As for bright, saturated colors - yes, the task bar and web browser have them. Task bar icons and favicons are often intentionally designed to be eye-catching like that. If I look on my current screen for static bright red / orange / yellow elements which have historically been the most problem for OLED, I have:
- 6 favicons in pinned tabs (Youtube, Amazon, AVSforum, etc.)
- 2 browser extension buttons (LastPass, etc.)
- 7 favicons in a bookmarks toolbar (AccuWeather, etc)
- 3 taskbar quicklaunch shortcuts (Windows Explorer, Firefox, etc)
If you have your browser open full-screen, for normal browsing, you are either using it at TV distances, or otherwise using it as a TV, not a monitor.
A full-screen browser is pretty much unusable on 40" and above unscaled 4K monitors. The pages look like a thin strip of text in the middle and you have to turn your head to reach side-aligned control elements on pages and in the browser.

If you're a power user, the icons on your taskbar are not permanent static elements. They open up and expand, move around as you add/remove them. Even one change every few month will rearrange things enough to remove taskbar BI as a concern.

If you're not a power user, you have no need for a 55" HDR OLED monitor.

There are non-power uses for large screens, but they're almost all better served by monitor walls made out of tiled 24" monitors, or at most SDR 40" 4K monitors.

Really, if most of your time is spent looking at your desktop or sitting in the web browser, you don't need an OLED for that. LCD provide exactly the same web browsing and office productivity experience for much less. This monitor is being sold specifically for demanding 3D gaming, not stock market charts.

Also, I don't have the experience of using an OLED laptop, but out of two well-used ones (since they're stopped making them) I've looked at, neither had any burn-in. That's with RGB panels used in laptops that are a lot more BI-prone than LG WOLED ones . In my 2 years of using an OLED TV as a monitor, I got no BI visible on test colors, and that included a lot of hours in a MMORPG with bright ability icons, and most of these hours were at Light 100.

The icons used in browsers, on desktops, or in computer games (sic - not console games) are, without scaling, too small to overcome the BI compensation system with pixel shift and logo dimming within any reasonable lifetime for them. This is far cry from the massive field of red on CNN that the TV can't do anything about.

So, in conclusion, no - the taskbar is not worse than CNN.
AnalogHD is offline  
post #55 of 57 Old 02-15-2019, 06:11 AM
Member
 
convexmacrolabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogHD View Post
If you have your browser open full-screen, for normal browsing, you are either using it at TV distances, or otherwise using it as a TV, not a monitor.
A full-screen browser is pretty much unusable on 40" and above unscaled 4K monitors. The pages look like a thin strip of text in the middle and you have to turn your head to reach side-aligned control elements on pages and in the browser.

It's not an issue of running in full screen, it's an issue of having the browser window in the same position. Modern operating systems will do that by default. Windows 10 has a snap feature. Linux and OSX will restore windows to the same position on reopen, etc.

Of course you can manually twiddle the positions of your windows to avoid this. But it is another manual step you must take.

Quote:
If you're a power user, the icons on your taskbar are not permanent static elements. They open up and expand, move around as you add/remove them. Even one change every few month will rearrange things enough to remove taskbar BI as a concern.

If you're not a power user, you have no need for a 55" HDR OLED monitor.
Not really interested in playing "no true Scotsman" about who is and isn't a power user. Personally I don't change the icons in my quick launch bar very frequently and I tend to have the same set of applications open most of the time, so the icons are usually in the same place.

Quote:
There are non-power uses for large screens, but they're almost all better served by monitor walls made out of tiled 24" monitors, or at most SDR 40" 4K monitors.

Really, if most of your time is spent looking at your desktop or sitting in the web browser, you don't need an OLED for that. LCD provide exactly the same web browsing and office productivity experience for much less. This monitor is being sold specifically for demanding 3D gaming, not stock market charts.
Dare I say, "power users" use their PCs for a lot of different things. Gaming, watching movies, web browsing, work, etc. You don't have to pick just one.

A setup with multiple tiled high refresh-rate gaming monitors is what I'm using now. OLED is an attractive alternative because the gaming monitors have poor contrast and suffer from IPS glow. Those issue apply when doing anything with the monitor, not just gaming. I actually also have my desktop hooked up to a TV via HDMI as an extra monitor for when I want to play games with better picture quality and am willing to give up VRR and 120 Hz+. I will probably replace that TV with a 2019 LG OLED later this year so I can get VRR and 120 Hz with OLED picture quality once HDMI 2.1 graphics cards become available. If I could get rid of the whole complicated setup and just use a single OLED, I would.
convexmacrolabs is offline  
post #56 of 57 Old 02-16-2019, 05:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
AnalogHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 682
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 387 Post(s)
Liked: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by convexmacrolabs View Post
Of course you can manually twiddle the positions of your windows to avoid this. But it is another manual step you must take.
It's not a step for me. I will have my browserS at different window size and position depending on what I'm doing with them. Right now it occupies about 20% of my display, on the lower right, because I'm just answering a post while watching the latest Grand Tour. In hindsight, the latter is pretty great, so I probably should have maximized it instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by convexmacrolabs View Post
Dare I say, "power users" use their PCs for a lot of different things. Gaming, watching movies, web browsing, work, etc. You don't have to pick just one.
I fully agree.

And that's why they're not going to get burn-in on their OLED monitors.
AnalogHD is offline  
post #57 of 57 Old 06-19-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Callsign_Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked: 373
Callsign_Vega is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off