OLED internal struggle, need advice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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OLED internal struggle, need advice

Here are the facts:

1. This is going to go in a living room, mounted above fireplace.

2. My eyes will be ~12ft from said TV.

3. The living room will rarely ever be pitch black. Daytime, windows everywhere, lots of natural lights. Night time, dimmed lights, two lamps with warm bulbs. Not crazy bright, but still bright.

4. 90% of the content watched is 1080P/720P movies, 1080P/720P tv shows, 5% sports, and 5% games.

5. My wife will use this and watch local news (today show) for a good portion of the morning. I really don't want to have to coach her on TV usage, just let her watch her few hours a day and turn it off.

I personally saw the OLEDs compared against the LCDs at a Magnolia. I thought the OLEDs obviously had perfect blacks but for some reason the 4K content looked grainy on the LGs when I was up close (any reason why?). The Sony OLED looked perfect, everything was outstanding.

A 77" would be PERFECT for distance, but they are sitting at $4600. A 65" is well within reach but I feel like it won't replace that feeling of the 75" Vizio P75 I had before (in terms of size). My budget is honestly $3,000 to $3,500.

Questions:

1. Is OLED optimal for my situation or should I really be looking at LCD?

2. Why did the OLED look grainy?

3. Based on my usage, will I have any issues with burn in?

4. Is the 77 forecasted to ever drop below $4K?

5. Should I wait for the C9 (or the 2019 model) and just get a 65"?

Appreciate it. With the new prices on the Samsungs, I just feel like why sacrifice PQ at such an expensive cost?
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post #2 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
Here are the facts:

1. This is going to go in a living room, mounted above fireplace.

2. My eyes will be ~12ft from said TV.

3. The living room will rarely ever be pitch black. Daytime, windows everywhere, lots of natural lights. Night time, dimmed lights, two lamps with warm bulbs. Not crazy bright, but still bright.

4. 90% of the content watched is 1080P/720P movies, 1080P/720P tv shows, 5% sports, and 5% games.

5. My wife will use this and watch local news (today show) for a good portion of the morning. I really don't want to have to coach her on TV usage, just let her watch her few hours a day and turn it off.

I personally saw the OLEDs compared against the LCDs at a Magnolia. I thought the OLEDs obviously had perfect blacks but for some reason the 4K content looked grainy on the LGs when I was up close (any reason why?). The Sony OLED looked perfect, everything was outstanding.

A 77" would be PERFECT for distance, but they are sitting at $4600. A 65" is well within reach but I feel like it won't replace that feeling of the 75" Vizio P75 I had before (in terms of size). My budget is honestly $3,000 to $3,500.

Questions:

1. Is OLED optimal for my situation or should I really be looking at LCD?

2. Why did the OLED look grainy?

3. Based on my usage, will I have any issues with burn in?

4. Is the 77 forecasted to ever drop below $4K?

5. Should I wait for the C9 (or the 2019 model) and just get a 65"?

Appreciate it. With the new prices on the Samsungs, I just feel like why sacrifice PQ at such an expensive cost?
I would go with an LCD in your case. Bright room means high olight level...add wife watching things that might have stationary pieces of imagery...together they can be a recipe for burn in.

The benefits of Oleds is the black level...something you will see little benefit from given your description of room lighting conditions.

So, why risk it. LCD's can go brighter, something you need...with far less risks.

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post #3 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 02:35 PM
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We’ve come to the same conclusion, Samsung blew it with their Q pricing making OLED that much more attractive. As for burn in, if OLED is like plasma in that regard which I hear it is, I wouldn’t worry about it. We have 3 plasmas and use all 3 as we would any other tv and never experienced burn in. But I’ll let actual OLED owners comment on that.

I’m surprised the LG looked grainy with 4K material. I think they look awesome with 4K material. It’s the upscaling of cable quality material where they fall short of Sony. For that reason you might want to price Sonys which will be more expensive, but worth it IMO.

As for brightness, that’s what you sacrifice with OLED for sure. LG is a tad brighter but not much and none of these come anywhere near the blinding 2000 nits that Samsung boasts.

That’s the conclusion I’ve come to anyway after kicking the tires on the new Samsungs. Just have to wait for money to materialize in my bank account now.
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post #4 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 02:37 PM
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If you want to get an LCD that's going to look close to the OLED get the Sony Z9F. It should be perfect since you have a bright room.

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post #5 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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Have you considered the Sony XBR75X900F. It is an excellent value LCD and is pretty bright.
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
(snip)

2. My eyes will be ~12ft from said TV.

(snip)

A 77" would be PERFECT for distance, but they are sitting at $4600. A 65" is well within reach but I feel like it won't replace that feeling of the 75" Vizio P75 I had before (in terms of size). My budget is honestly $3,000 to $3,500.

(snip)

2. Why did the OLED look grainy?

(snip)
As regards (2), there are a number of criteria for choosing a screen size for a home theater application. To get a 30° horizontal viewing angle at 12', the TV (16:9 aspect ratio) would nee a diagonal larger than 88". A 77" would give 26°, which is the minimum "back row" spec.

As for question (2), I don't know. I've had a Samsung KS8000 (2016 "quantum dot" model) and an LG B7A (2017 OLED). I have not seen any general graininess in the OLED display. (I get grain with grainy content, like movies that were shot on film.) I have no idea why BB/Magnolia would use grainy source material on OLED TVs.

Because you will be watching source material that isn't HDR, and size is important, I suggest the LCD. I hope that you can fit a big one over the fireplace. (That's not a great place for a large TV, but I know it's the style at the moment, at least as presented by HGTV.)
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post #7 of 21 Old 02-21-2019, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
As regards (2), there are a number of criteria for choosing a screen size for a home theater application. To get a 30° horizontal viewing angle at 12', the TV (16:9 aspect ratio) would nee a diagonal larger than 88". A 77" would give 26°, which is the minimum "back row" spec.

As for question (2), I don't know. I've had a Samsung KS8000 (2016 "quantum dot" model) and an LG B7A (2017 OLED). I have not seen any general graininess in the OLED display. (I get grain with grainy content, like movies that were shot on film.) I have no idea why BB/Magnolia would use grainy source material on OLED TVs.

Because you will be watching source material that isn't HDR, and size is important, I suggest the LCD. I hope that you can fit a big one over the fireplace. (That's not a great place for a large TV, but I know it's the style at the moment, at least as presented by HGTV.)
Thank you for the input.

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Originally Posted by Knuck View Post
Have you considered the Sony XBR75X900F. It is an excellent value LCD and is pretty bright.
I have. I might consider settling for it since it's a really good deal lately. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
If you want to get an LCD that's going to look close to the OLED get the Sony Z9F. It should be perfect since you have a bright room.
Z9F is a little bit pricey. Thanks tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvhunter View Post
We’ve come to the same conclusion, Samsung blew it with their Q pricing making OLED that much more attractive. As for burn in, if OLED is like plasma in that regard which I hear it is, I wouldn’t worry about it. We have 3 plasmas and use all 3 as we would any other tv and never experienced burn in. But I’ll let actual OLED owners comment on that.

I’m surprised the LG looked grainy with 4K material. I think they look awesome with 4K material. It’s the upscaling of cable quality material where they fall short of Sony. For that reason you might want to price Sonys which will be more expensive, but worth it IMO.

As for brightness, that’s what you sacrifice with OLED for sure. LG is a tad brighter but not much and none of these come anywhere near the blinding 2000 nits that Samsung boasts.

That’s the conclusion I’ve come to anyway after kicking the tires on the new Samsungs. Just have to wait for money to materialize in my bank account now.
Yep. Gonna still see how reviews shake out. Pricing is crazy high tho. Maybe the x900F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenbar View Post
I would go with an LCD in your case. Bright room means high olight level...add wife watching things that might have stationary pieces of imagery...together they can be a recipe for burn in.

The benefits of Oleds is the black level...something you will see little benefit from given your description of room lighting conditions.

So, why risk it. LCD's can go brighter, something you need...with far less risks.
Well said. Thank you.
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-22-2019, 03:54 AM
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The x900f would be fine if all your viewing is inside of a 10 degree angle. I’ve tried to like that tv because everyone says I should but it’s just terrible off angle. It’s a good deal right now and has Sony processing so takes care of your upscaling and sports. Ironically, it looked grainy in the Magnolia room showing NFL Films last month and that was the 75” I think. Bigger screens will show more imperfections was the story they gave me.
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-22-2019, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvhunter View Post
We’ve come to the same conclusion, Samsung blew it with their Q pricing making OLED that much more attractive. As for burn in, if OLED is like plasma in that regard which I hear it is, I wouldn’t worry about it. We have 3 plasmas and use all 3 as we would any other tv and never experienced burn in. But I’ll let actual OLED owners comment on that.

I’m surprised the LG looked grainy with 4K material. I think they look awesome with 4K material. It’s the upscaling of cable quality material where they fall short of Sony. For that reason you might want to price Sonys which will be more expensive, but worth it IMO.

As for brightness, that’s what you sacrifice with OLED for sure. LG is a tad brighter but not much and none of these come anywhere near the blinding 2000 nits that Samsung boasts.

That’s the conclusion I’ve come to anyway after kicking the tires on the new Samsungs. Just have to wait for money to materialize in my bank account now.
Burn-in tends to be an edge case thing, just like with plasma. Most wont ever have to worry about it. Not even gong to get into that here, lol.

As for brightness? Lets not acrt like OLEDs are dim - far from it. They do not hit the peak NITS that LCDs can but that hardly translates into anything really tangible when using the TV. I dont see the point of watching your favorite programming with glaring lights or daylight hitting the TV screen. Why bother? And, even if you do, OLED handles ambient light much better than plasma ever did. No question there. OLEDs do a great job with HDR and Dolby vision too. Thats what counts - not making your eyes bleed with cranked up yet sort of useless brightness.

I think the OP could easily go with an OLED but Im a biased OLED weenie so what do I know?

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post #10 of 21 Old 02-22-2019, 05:41 AM
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Well you can be in a bright room during daytime viewing without the sun directly on the screen but still have to deal with reflections. I have this issue myself. Not everyone owns a devoted theatre room. OLED has many strengths but brightness is a point in favor of LCD. You should be able to grant that.
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-22-2019, 05:47 AM
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I have the OLED65C8PUA so not the 77" model but I watch the Today show quite a bit in the morning (I work from home and leave it running in the background), I have a lot of hours on the TV, no issues with burn-in. In the evenings, I am watching a lot of broadcast TV or Netflix / Prime Video in 4K HDR usually, so my content gets varied by watching other stuff during the evening.
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-22-2019, 07:06 AM
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Questions:

1. Is OLED optimal for my situation or should I really be looking at LCD?

2. Why did the OLED look grainy?

3. Based on my usage, will I have any issues with burn in?

4. Is the 77 forecasted to ever drop below $4K?

5. Should I wait for the C9 (or the 2019 model) and just get a 65"?

The questions were supposed to have been quoted. First multitasking fail of the day.

1. My room sounds very similar. Lots of windows and tons of natural lighting. Similarly, some daytime viewing but mostly at night with room lights on. I have never felt like my LG OLED was not bright enough. I don't even change the settings or picture preset for daytime vs. night viewing. I'm not going to say don't buy an LCD, but I wouldn't pass on the OLED just out of concern for ambient lighting.
2. No idea. I see no graininess on my OLED. Could have something to do with the way the display or the source device had been set up.
3. We've got similar usage and I have had no problem with IR or BI. We're at 2000+ hours. Appropriate picture settings make IR and BI less of an issue and you can find those at Rtings or FlatpanelsHD, or in the display device's particular forum.
4. Don't know.
5. Depends on what features are important to you. Since I'm not in the market for a new set I'm not fully up to speed on the 2019 models. I am aware that the 2019 will have some hardware or infrastructure upgrades, but if those are not important to you, I'm not confident that the picture quality difference between the 2018 and the 2019 will be worth the added expense. I could be wrong there, but I'm used to incremental improvements rather than drastic ones. I have an LGC7 and an LGC8. I love them both and think they both can go toe-to-toe with each other.

Last edited by chad43; 02-22-2019 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Clarity
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-24-2019, 02:01 PM
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Easy decision; QLED. I'm surprised nobody mentioned the sun will burn-in your entire screen.
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post #14 of 21 Old 02-24-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hqbert View Post
Easy decision; QLED. I'm surprised nobody mentioned the sun will burn-in your entire screen.
I don't think he stated that sunlight would be hitting the screen surface directly...

My inout to the OP would be the following:

For most of the casual morning / bright-room viewing, you could go either way, with the slightest of edges to LCD due to no burn-in concerns as long as viewing is on-angle. If viewing far off-angle, the edge swings decisively to OLED (subject to end-user reviews of tue new 2019 QLEDs).

For critical viewing and dark-room viewing, if you were happy with the off-angle viewing performance of your Vizio P75, I'd forget about OLED and stick with LCD.

If better off-angle viewing performance is the main PQ deficit you had with the P75, stick to an OLED or a 2019 QLED/LCD.

You did not state why you are unhappy with your P75.

I had a P70 and loved it except for backlight dimming anomolies and poor off-angle viewing for the occasional guest.

Switched to a 65" WOLED (65C6P) and will never go back to LCD.

For a budget of 75" for $3000-3500, LCD is probably your only choice right now (though the 77C9P is likely to drop under $4000 by November...).
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-24-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hqbert View Post
Easy decision; QLED. I'm surprised nobody mentioned the sun will burn-in your entire screen.
True. You shouldn't leave your OLED sitting on a beach.

Seriously, since the TV is going to be mounted above a fireplace it would seem to be unusual that it will get direct sunlight. But if it does, that WOULD be something to consider.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-24-2019, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hqbert View Post
Easy decision; QLED. I'm surprised nobody mentioned the sun will burn-in your entire screen.

Only if it gets direct sunlight

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-24-2019, 06:23 PM
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Well you can be in a bright room during daytime viewing without the sun directly on the screen but still have to deal with reflections. I have this issue myself. Not everyone owns a devoted theatre room. OLED has many strengths but brightness is a point in favor of LCD. You should be able to grant that.

I don't own a dedicated HT room either... my theater room is my living room and for less than $100 I added blackout curtains to the windows and can darken the room at will.

By all means if you want to watch TV with all the lights on and/or sunlight flooding the room get the LCD... but darkening a room to get the full benefits of OLED (which destroys LCD in those room settings) isn't that hard. For me OLED was the obvious choice. I've never cared for bright screens or watching TV in bright rooms.
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-03-2019, 11:38 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by LiQiCE View Post
I have the OLED65C8PUA so not the 77" model but I watch the Today show quite a bit in the morning (I work from home and leave it running in the background), I have a lot of hours on the TV, no issues with burn-in. In the evenings, I am watching a lot of broadcast TV or Netflix / Prime Video in 4K HDR usually, so my content gets varied by watching other stuff during the evening.
In terms of critical viewing, How does the broadcast (720p/1080i) material please you? Many on here feel that it is very acceptable. I am still "on the fence" regarding up conversion of "HD" to 4K being less than stellar, compared to my old standby Panny plasma, which makes broadcast look pretty dang good. I do realize that on the "other end of the spectrum," an OLED would put my plasma to shame with 4K/HDR content.
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-03-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
In terms of critical viewing, How does the broadcast (720p/1080i) material please you? Many on here feel that it is very acceptable. I am still "on the fence" regarding up conversion of "HD" to 4K being less than stellar, compared to my old standby Panny plasma, which makes broadcast look pretty dang good. I do realize that on the "other end of the spectrum," an OLED would put my plasma to shame with 4K/HDR content.
I have DirecTV, so that is my primary source of broadcast TV (I also have an OTA antenna, but I don't usually watch with the antenna). I also sit further away from my 65" TV than is probably the "ideal" for 4K - about 10 ft away.

For 1080i broadcasts look great, no real issues. I'm watching a DVR recording of Hawaii Five-O on CBS right now and the picture is great. For 720p broadcasts like on ABC, it depends on the program - some programs you can easily tell it is 720p, but others I can't tell unless I'm really looking for it.

Between 4K and 1080i or 1080p material - I can tell the difference if I'm really looking for it, but to be honest at the distance I'm sitting, 4K doesn't look significantly different than 1080i/1080p. HDR/Dolby Vision material on the other hand - looks incredible and I can definitely tell the difference.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-03-2019, 07:03 PM
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Question Going frm 65" up to 77" screen?Big or small loss in sharpness/uniformity w/broadcast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiQiCE View Post
I have DirecTV, so that is my primary source of broadcast TV (I also have an OTA antenna, but I don't usually watch with the antenna). I also sit further away from my 65" TV than is probably the "ideal" for 4K - about 10 ft away.

For 1080i broadcasts look great, no real issues. I'm watching a DVR recording of Hawaii Five-O on CBS right now and the picture is great. For 720p broadcasts like on ABC, it depends on the program - some programs you can easily tell it is 720p, but others I can't tell unless I'm really looking for it.

Between 4K and 1080i or 1080p material - I can tell the difference if I'm really looking for it, but to be honest at the distance I'm sitting, 4K doesn't look significantly different than 1080i/1080p. HDR/Dolby Vision material on the other hand - looks incredible and I can definitely tell the difference.
Thanks for the reply ! Yea, with my dedicated theater room (1080p front projector and a 108" screen), we comfortably sit 12' from the screen !

The other question/factor as to how decent broadcast (720p/1080i) would look...I wonder just how much of a factor the difference between a 65" and a 77" would be in picture quality (i.e. sharpness; lack of visible "junk" artifacts)?? We have all read how when you go up in size (all else being the same), sharpness and uniformity reduces. Anyone care to mention their experience with going from a 65" up to 77" and perceived loss of sharpness and/or uniformity ? Thanks !
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post #21 of 21 Old 03-03-2019, 08:46 PM
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No real perception of loss of sharpness from my viewing distance (10-11 feet) after upgrading to 77" from 65", but uniformity (of the near black variety, white uniformity is almost perfect) is another story. This is a 2016 panel, mind you, so there is at least circumstantial evidence to suggest they're doing better today.
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